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Post by vindur on May 9, 2017 17:24:25 GMT
First post in this forum, hi everyone. So I just finished my first Inquisition playthrough (ecept for the last Trespasser DLC, which I plan to complete soon) and I know most of you must have already discussed this a lot of times, but I'm too excited about the saga right now and NEED to discuss this with someone else lmao  Basically, after finishing Inquisition and looking at it thoroughly I think we are left with three main unresolved problems in Thedas and our heroes panorama, that I think I can resume like this: - The Solas/Fen'Harel-Flemeth/Mythal mystery - The possibility of a Grey Warden civil war and the destiny of Hawke and Stroud/Alistair, etc - The historically-relevant investigation about the Calling led by our Origins Warden (if he/she is still alive) and the destination of Morrigan (and Kieran if you romance her or bla bla bla) To this we can add up the infighting within the new Circles/Bright Hand College and the Chantry. I think is reasonably enough to affirm that the situation ends up in a more or less ''unstable'' peace whoever the new Divine is (Cassandra, Vivienne or Leliana), while it seems Cassandra manages to establish the more stable situation (or not, given the odd destiny the Circles of Magi have always seemed to have). One of the questions that I'm most interested in is: how many possibilities there are for us to take the role of our Origins Warden again? I think I don't talk only by myself when I say he/she is the most relatable character, the one most people has put personal views and methods into and the one whose story gets more people passionate about. I think there are the same possibilities of seeing them again/playing as them than there are of just getting them lost forever. On one hand our Warden has a major, direct role to accomplish in at least 2 of the 3 argumental lines left to complete in the videogame canon, as I described before: the investigation about the Calling and the Grey Warden civil war. I don't think BioWare would slip into Inquisitions story the investigation about the Calling just to leave it in shadows in the next part of the saga, that would be plainly ridiculous. And our Origins Warden is the standing-alone protagonist of this most important event. Plus, if you romance Morrigan, for example, she states in Inquisition her resolute will to reunite with the Warden once again and for all with Kieran, a perspective I find most charming and that I'm sure a lot of players would love. On the other hand there are major factors that would make difficult such a perspective, being the most important how difficult it would be to reconcile the variables put into our characters story in the game. BioWare is a company and as such has already manifestated (twice) its will to lure new players into the saga, making two new heroes appear outta nowhere for the 2nd and 3rd part of the saga***. I still don't know what the default Dragon Age Keep story says about this, but a lot of players haven't even played Origins and many of them got the Warden juts sacrificied to kill the 5th Blight Archdemon. Introducing the Origins Warden again as the main character would for sure left with an interrogation drawn all over their faces the new players who'd feel like they would have to go through pages and pages of codex and DA lore to have an idea of what story are they into. What do you all think about the issue? Would you like to retake the Warden's storyline for Dragon Age 4 or not? I will follow your comments with interest and as much as possible *** This is for me the great original sin of BioWare. Maybe ONE new hero would have been great, but the mere fact of giving players the chance of having your Warden killed in Origins just fucks up the perspective of going on with your Wardens story many players long for, of seeing fulfilled and enriched the story of the character many of us most relate to and the one we think has the greatest canon-potential because of his/her relationship with the Blight, the Grey Wardens, Morrigan and Flemeth, etc. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 18:09:25 GMT
Bioware devs have clearly said that they won't bring HoF back, mainly because they cannot do them justice no matter how hard they try and they know that.
You should really play Trespasser before speculating because it is mind blowing and imo one of the best DLCs ever made
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Post by gervaise21 on May 9, 2017 18:26:01 GMT
To be honest I think the Warden being away somewhere investigating a cure for the taint was just a convenient plot device to explain why they weren't caught up in the Grey Warden events of Inquisition. In a way it is a pity they refused to bring back the Warden as part of that plot as it would have made the choice between your Warden and Hawke that much more difficult. As it is I think it was just a red herring because: If you romanced Leliana at the end of Trespasser the Warden is back with her either living happily in her chateau by the sea or being the cause of a change in Chantry lore to allow the Divine (and other clerics) to marry. Whichever is your scenario no mention is made of the purpose for which they were absent either to say they did find a cure or didn't. It is just possible that finding a cure for the taint will feature again in future games but the Devs have confirmed that the Warden will not.
I'm also not sure how much the Grey Warden trouble will feature in the next game either because:
Although at the beginning of Trespasser Varric has still not heard back from Hawke by the epilogue Hawke is safely back in Kirkwall, again without any reference to the event that kept them away for so long.
It is possible the Grey Warden plot may crop up in the new comic series. We shall have to wait and see.
The main plot thread which we hope will be resolved in the next game is the whole Solas/Mythal affair and that definitely now seems the main focus of the narrative.
Underlying it is likely to be the Tevinter/Qunari war which is underway by the end of Trespasser. |
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Post by Wulfram on May 9, 2017 19:27:21 GMT
I don't think Bioware have handled the Warden well since Origins, but the ship has sailed and its too late to sensibly bring them back. Most people who played that game aren't going to remember much about a character they haven't touched in what'll basically be a decade when the next game comes out. The best thing they can do with the Warden is basically "And they lived happily ever after" then leave them alone, which they already kind of did for those who romanced Leliana . Though it might be difficult for Morrigan romancing Wardens since she's probably not done with yet. But I do hope they learn and try to handle the Inquisitor better. Dumping our former protagonists into limbo because Bioware can't handle them properly isn't good enough. |
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Post by vindur on May 9, 2017 21:30:22 GMT
But I do hope they learn and try to handle the Inquisitor better. Dumping our former protagonists into limbo because Bioware can't handle them properly isn't good enough. Yeah I totally agree with this, and it is honestly one of my main problems with the saga. Casting the Wardens' storyline aside like that is just... awful. Thanks for all the insights everybody. I'll hurry up and play Trespasser DLC then... I knew I had to romance Leliana, it's so frustrating to have such a great romance with Morrigan just to see how it ends up unresolved  |
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Post by Abraxas on May 9, 2017 23:53:27 GMT
One of the questions that I'm most interested in is: how many possibilities there are for us to take the role of our Origins Warden again? None. I'll be honest with my opinions here, the writers are so afraid of destroying the headcanons of a few players, that have relegated the Hero of Ferelden as a codex-only character. However, they actually did that (ruined headcanons) with the way they handled or outright ignored many plots from Origins, Awakening and DA2. I don't think BioWare would slip into Inquisitions story the investigation about the Calling just to leave it in shadows in the next part of the saga, that would be plainly ridiculous. We are talking about Bioware here, just wait. What do you all think about the issue? Would you like to retake the Warden's storyline for Dragon Age 4 or not? I for one, would like that the writers of DA4 will be brave enough to bring back the HoF, even if is an NPC, with whatever fate they have devised for her/him. Its their story, not mine, I'm only the player. And since they have said a lot of times that their canon does not override a player's personal canon, whatever they do with the HoF that I don't like, won't be part of my canon... |
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 10, 2017 3:35:59 GMT
I know it's a bummer, but you do have to consider that a great portion of Wardens are dead. What do you want to do with those players? It's also a matter of resources. They can't devote too many resources for an alternate path. There is also the fact that, because these games are now voiced, there would invariably be unhappiness with portraying a voice Warden. They will NOT be having a silent Warden. It worked with Hawke in DAI because Hawke was guaranteed to be alive and was voiced in DA2. If they had a voice for the Warden, I doubt they will provide too many options, if any options at all; you would likely get a male and female voice, with no choice at all.
The reception for Hawke was pretty mixed, as many players didn't like control of their character being taken away from them in such a manner, saying things they wouldn't say, and so on -- a bloog mage Hawke railing against blood magic.
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Post by Abraxas on May 10, 2017 4:36:32 GMT
I know it's a bummer, but you do have to consider that a great portion of Wardens are dead. What do you want to do with those players? For those players there is the Orlesian Warden-Commander of Awakening. That, despite the fact that the devs totally ignored him/her in Inquisition, s/he exists in the lore of the world (and is guaranteed to be alive at that point). It's also a matter of resources. They can't devote too many resources for an alternate path. There is also the fact that, because these games are now voiced, there would invariably be unhappiness with portraying a voice Warden. There is unhappiness for not using the Warden in the game, so, they are in the losing end whatever they do. |
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Post by vindur on May 10, 2017 7:50:41 GMT
I know it's a bummer, but you do have to consider that a great portion of Wardens are dead. What do you want to do with those players? For those players there is the Orlesian Warden-Commander of Awakening. That, despite the fact that the devs totally ignored him/her in Inquisition, s/he exists in the lore of the world (and is guaranteed to be alive at that point). It's also a matter of resources. They can't devote too many resources for an alternate path. There is also the fact that, because these games are now voiced, there would invariably be unhappiness with portraying a voice Warden. There is unhappiness for not using the Warden in the game, so, they are in the losing end whatever they do. Pretty much agree with everything Abraxas is saying. The voice argument has its point, but I don't see it as a fundamental one. And if Abraxas has been able to come up with a pretty reasonable solution for the Warden's death problem in a single post (the Orlesian Warden would be something worthy of further inquiring), I think the whole BioWare staff could be able of thinking about something. Some sort of plothole for a possible ''resurrection'' of the dead Warden, as they did with Leliana, Morrigan if you stab her in Witch Hunt, etc., seems at this point not an unreasonable thing. So they could have done something, at least, before just giving up on the Warden. It's a lose-lose situation. Casting aside the Warden's storyline will grant you the unhappines of thousands of old school players who can be seen in any youtube video related to the Wardens/Origins/Alistair-Morriga-Leliana, etc giving an immesively positive feedback to the idea of bringing the Warden back, while being true it would require many resources for something that for many would be an alternative path. Many would consider it just complaining I guess, but I'm sure many players like me saw the Warden as the real protagonist of the series and were looking into developing even more his/her story, relationship with companions, etc. The fact that if you pretty much don't romance Leliana, you see your story unended, unsolved, and with the only perspective of being forgotten, by the end of Inquisition. As it has been said here let's hope BioWare learns from this and handle future characters better than this. What I'm sure is that they will have to think twice, at least, when wondering if they are gonna give the ''option'' of just sacrificing a protagonist. |
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Post by Absafraginlootly on May 10, 2017 9:52:22 GMT
When dragon age origins ended I felt like my wardens story was complete. Now they keep bring them up ('they're missing', 'they're looking for a cure') instead of leaving them to their respective happy and tragic endings.
If they bring them in to resolve that plot thread then I hope they don't do it like they did Hawke. That debacle left me with the strong opinion that any returning protagonist situation has to give us control of their own dialogue wheel; even if they're just a cameo rather than the games pc.
Using the Orlesian Warden as an alternate for the HoF is all very well if its as a cameo/questline (like hawke) or a dlc (like leliana's song) but as the protagonist for a main game? The only benefit I see to using the OW over a new protagonist who is a warden is their experience with the Architect and awakened darkspawn. If the plot doesn't use those elements your just missing out on all the possible new background opportunities in exchange for a character who, unlike the HoF, doesn't have that great amount of audience investment.
A new games plot can't be written to specifically need the HoF's origins experiences because the OW doesn't have those, necessitating origins specific content be relegated largely to conversation options like races in DAI. So unless they write a game that specifically needs the Fereldan Warden Commander and their Awakening related experiences they might as well just have a new warden character.
A game with a new warden protagonist and the HoF/OW as a cameo (with dialogue wheel) or as a temporarily controllable pc (like ciri in the witcher 3) might be the ideal way to deal with this plot thread really. Though i don't get the feeling that DA4 is going to have the blight/ darkspawn/ wardens as it's focus, perhaps DA5?
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Post by vindur on May 10, 2017 10:15:05 GMT
A new games plot can't be written to specifically need the HoF's origins experiences because the OW doesn't have those, necessitating origins specific content be relegated largely to conversation options like races in DAI. So unless they write a game that specifically needs the Fereldan Warden Commander and their Awakening related experiences they might as well just have a new warden character. A game with a new warden protagonist and the HoF/OW as a cameo (with dialogue wheel) or as a temporarily controllable pc (like ciri in the witcher 3) might be the ideal way to deal with this plot thread really. Though i don't get the feeling that DA4 is going to have the blight/ darkspawn/ wardens as it's focus, perhaps DA5? Yes, it's complicated, but i think we all here agree it could be done. Or, at least, a DA4 DLC explaining how do you investigate the Calling and a possible encounter with the Architect related, somehow, to the main storyline of DA4, whatever it is. The thing about feeling if your Warden's story is done by the end of Origins is really the matter here. Awakening DLC and, above all, Witch Hunt DLC feel like they weren't done for a dead Warden's storyline. There are many players, most of them casual/newbies to the saga and more Inquisition-centered for all I can tell, who push for a Warden's story inside the limits of Origins and nothing more. But there are a whole lot of other players who don't like that view and push in the other sense. They (and myself) see Origins DLCs as a logical continuation of the great Warden Commander story, his/her further investigation on the origins of the Blight, his/her reunion with Morrigan, etc. For me there are two major mistakes here with the Warden and Dragon Age story, two ''original sins'' of the company that should have never been done: 1.) Giving the option of just exterminating the protagonist of the first videogame of the saga. And I say exterminating because it is a reality in which there's no possibility of returning in any sense. The Warden dies and fuck all. No possible doubts in his/her disappearance, no possible plot holes, no possible coming back. This, as I see it, was a major mistake that created irreconciliable incompatibilities for those who wanted to continue the Warden's saga, whom are a more than decent part of DA community 2.) Dragon Age 2. There was no need for a Dragon Age 2 the way it was put forward. It has been nothing more than a transitional game to Inquisition and they have created a new hero out of nowhere when it was not necessary. Dragon Age 2 could have been perfectly protagonised by the Grey Warden as a transition to his role in Inquisition, and not only his role, but that of Morrigan, Varric, the Hawke family etc... because I don't have any problem with the existence of Varric and the Hawkes, but I think Hawke could just have been another companion of the Warden in DA2, with his major role too. If the option given in Origin to eliminate the Warden destabilized, to say the least, the possibility of a continuity in his/her canonical story, the way Dragon Age 2 is presented seals his/her destiny as a great character doomed to irrelevancy/fading out. |
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on May 10, 2017 11:04:28 GMT
Some sort of plothole for a possible ''resurrection'' of the dead Warden, as they did with Leliana, Morrigan if you stab her in Witch Hunt, etc., seems at this point not an unreasonable thing. So they could have done something, at least, before just giving up on the Warden. If they brought everyone's dead Wardens back, I would stop buying Dragon Age games cold. My favourite Warden is dead. She had damn well better stay that way. I think the negatives of bringing the live Wardens back for DA4 outweigh the potential benefits. However, I've seen people suggesting a text-based game like The Last Court as a swan song for them and I would LOVE that option. It neatly dodges the voice issue, and wouldn't confuse new players or involve rewriting a whole game to account for the character's potential death. (I know several people who started the series with DAI and just found the Hawke cameo annoying because they had no connection to the character, and I can only imagine how much worse that would be if the Hero of Ferelden showed up in a game that was released a decade after the last time they were the protagonist of a game.) |
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Post by vindur on May 10, 2017 11:34:46 GMT
Some sort of plothole for a possible ''resurrection'' of the dead Warden, as they did with Leliana, Morrigan if you stab her in Witch Hunt, etc., seems at this point not an unreasonable thing. So they could have done something, at least, before just giving up on the Warden. That's what I'm talking about. Hawke's and the Warden's role in Inquisition could perfectly have been switched. A more direct role of the Warden and a more ''in the shadows'' role of Hawke (if DA2 had been centered in the Warden again and not in a hero-outta-nowhere as it was). That's what I was talking about with all the Dragon Age 2 issue thing (besides the optional death of the Warden). The problem for many players is that they are not ok with ''the Warden staying that way''. For us it's just as weird as if we had a Witcher's saga in which Geralt died at the end of the first videogame or in the beginning of the second one, for example, to add more random awfulness to the perspective. Origins DLCs exist because of something, and many of us believed they were what they obviously seemed to be, a great BRIDGE to continue the Warden's story, whom we see as the real protagonist of the videogames canon. The argument that it would be weird to bring back a 10 years old character has no sense for me. Hawke is 6 years old now, Morrigan and Leliana are 10 years old too, and there you have them on the front line. And my main argument also is that if they had got it the right way in Dragon Age 2, we wouldn't be talking about prolonged absences anyway. |
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Post by Abraxas on May 10, 2017 19:32:41 GMT
When dragon age origins ended I felt like my wardens story was complete. Now they keep bring them up ('they're missing', 'they're looking for a cure') instead of leaving them to their respective happy and tragic endings. I think the same. Awakening was the perfect ending. Witch Hunt was unnecessary, because if left more questions (and an open ending for Morrigan lovers), while Awakening closed your adventure in a fulfilling way. The Warden, if survived, ended the leftovers of the Blight, changed the destiny of the darkspawn forever, and then becomes a full Grey Warden doing Warden-y stuff for the rest of his/her days. They should have closed the Warden's story there. But, since they could not come up with a more intelligent reason for "why the Warden isn't in Adamant..." (I dunno... maybe s/he was doing a holiday trip in Tevinter, Weisshaupt, or whatever other northern, far away place?). The Cure is an unnecessary plot done because reasons... If they bring them in to resolve that plot thread then I hope they don't do it like they did Hawke. Oh, they will resolve that plot point, I'm sure of it. In codex or another character mentions, but they will close it. |
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Post by gervaise21 on May 10, 2017 19:42:57 GMT
The fact is they "bottled" it for the Warden in DAI. That would have been the place to bring them back into the story, particularly since at the end of DA2 Leliana implied that the disappearance of the Hero of Ferelden and the Champion of Kirkwall at the same time had to be more than just coincidence. So we were expecting a storyline that involved them both. Then suddenly the Warden takes off on some wild goose chase in the far west looking for a cure for the Blight, without any explanation why they are looking there, Clarel is suddenly in charge of all the Wardens in southern Thedas and still having to persuade Teagan to let the Wardens into Ferelden (totally ignoring everything that happened in Awakening) and Hawke's contact is either Stroud (most likely) or Alistair/Loghain. The Orlesian Warden Commander from Awakening is discounted altogether. I must admit I was expecting the "search for a cure" to possibly feature in the next game, with the Warden having discovered something of importance that they pass on (probably by codex) and then I got one of the endings to Trespasser that seemed to discount that as a possibility. What is even more annoying is that the Warden's story appears to be resolved as a "happy ever after" in one instance (Leliana) but not in others. At least Morrigan does say that she and Kieran will be joining the Warden wherever he may be after we have dealt with Corypheus, so that is a partial resolution to that romance. However, so far as I can tell if you are King/Queen consort of Ferelden or romancing Zevran, then your story is just left hanging and you must assume that the Warden just carried on looking. To be fair though, I seem to recall that it was stated somewhere that they never intended having one hero carry the story through all the games (like in Mass Effect) but that each instalment was meant to have a new protagonist. The problem with that was the way things were left at the end of Trespasser which naturally made many people feel that the Inquisitor had to return as their story was not yet finished. By this I mean their story as a person. I don't think anyone would dispute that their role as Inquisitor of All Thedas has ended, even if they didn't actually disband the organisation. If they returned they would need a new title, other than Herald of Andraste which many people objected to, although Mythal does call us the "Herald of Change" in the main game, so possibly "Herald" will be their title when dealing with anyone in the next game.
At present it seems most likely that the Inquisitor will return in a cameo role at most if they are to keep to their original idea of a new PC each game but I believe they haven't actually discounted the idea of dual protagonists, so I suppose we shall just have to wait and see. |
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Post by vindur on May 10, 2017 20:01:01 GMT
Taking into account you are the person I've seen around here with more dominance and knowledge about DA lore, I think you slipped a little detail here! Hahaha. When you talk to Morrigan about the Warden's quest against the Calling she says he's following a lead that Morrigan herself ''discovered''. So she implies the Warden was not the first to investigate the Calling on the ground, it was her, and she discovered some kind of clue the Warden now follows to the west. That's the point right? I really don't have any problem with Witch Hunt, I think it's great and a really charming continuation to the romance with Morrigan. But that's it! It totally seems as a CONTINUATION! I've already stated around here both dlcs and specially the Witch Hunt one are obvious BRIDGES to something new. That's for me the horrible mistake of BioWare. If you plan to leave the story line of one of the greatest characters of the saga in shadows, don't do that! Don't give people hope just to end in nothing goddamnit!! |
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Vae Victus - suffering to the conquered. Ironic now I was the one suffering.
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Abraxas
Vae Victus - suffering to the conquered. Ironic now I was the one suffering.
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abraxas
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Abraxas on May 10, 2017 21:34:00 GMT
Taking into account you are the person I've seen around here with more dominance and knowledge about DA lore, I think you slipped a little detail here! Hahaha. When you talk to Morrigan about the Warden's quest against the Calling she says he's following a lead that Morrigan herself ''discovered''. So she implies the Warden was not the first to investigate the Calling on the ground, it was her, and she discovered some kind of clue the Warden now follows to the west. This only is mentioned if you're romancing Morrigan. If you're romancing either Leliana or Warden Alistair, then Morrigan will not mention that. This means that we cannot assume that in every instance it was Morrigan the one who gave the HoF the "lead". And we know the Warden was not the first to investigate the Calling. Before her/him, both the Architect and Avernus did research on the matter, and in every version on the Warden searching for the Cure, Avernus is mentioned (and, if you spared him and allowed him to go with his experiments, in DA2 it is confirmed that Avernus got the Architect notes—perhaps, the ones the Architect left behind when he fled the Silverite Mine in Awakening—to expand on his own research). This means that the main lead for the Cure was the one discovered by Avernus (either with or without the Architect's notes), not the one discovered by Morrigan (that is only mentioned in one possible scenario). That's the point right? I really don't have any problem with Witch Hunt, I think it's great and a really charming continuation to the romance with Morrigan. But that's it! It totally seems as a CONTINUATION! I've already stated around here both dlcs and specially the Witch Hunt one are obvious BRIDGES to something new. That's for me the horrible mistake of BioWare. If you plan to leave the story line of one of the greatest characters of the saga in shadows, don't do that! Don't give people hope just to end in nothing goddamnit!! Is a problem when we got a perfect ending for the character in Awakening. If they weren't planning to use the Warden anymore, there was no need to release a "Mysterious Mysteries of Strange Mystery" DLC, because that only hyped the players (that and the "Hawke and the Warden missing? Aliens!" stuff), and this led to the eventual disappointing that many (myself included) felt with how Inquisition handled this stuff. |
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vindur
N2
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: VarletLudd
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vindur
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Post by vindur on May 11, 2017 8:53:26 GMT
I forgot about Avernus lol. It's been a long time since I last played Awakening and have only played it once.
Now considering that, I'm not sure to recall something more ''closed'' as an Awakening final other than dealing with the Architect and the Mother and remaining as Arl of Amaranthine, I'm not sure if you possibly mean something else.
On the Witch Hunt DLC and its handling towards Inquisition I totally share your disappointment. I still think it had the potential to buid something greater with our Morrigan-romancing Warden and I'm happy I could have at least a hint of some sort of temporal happy resolution to the romance... for some time. But the way that story line is left behind at the end of Inquisition, and now even more that we know the Warden is not coming back... fuck that.
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vindur
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Post by vindur on May 11, 2017 9:05:20 GMT
As much as I can tell, we can only theorize about the final destiny of the Warden and his/her investigation about the Calling, but the truth is Inquisition doesn't give a final and absolute response to that (especially to the investigation). As always we'll have to wait for whatever BioWare has in stock for us in the next game, either if the ''Calling investigation'' was supposed to be a convenient excuse to get rid of the Wardens story once and for all or with the investigation being something far greater than that...
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Abraxas
N2
Vae Victus - suffering to the conquered. Ironic now I was the one suffering.
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Abraxas
Vae Victus - suffering to the conquered. Ironic now I was the one suffering.
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abraxas
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Post by Abraxas on May 11, 2017 9:44:44 GMT
They will close that storyline, that's for sure. Now that they put a hold on ME, maybe DA is becoming their new flagship game, and they need it as smooth as they can (or that I hope). However, they refuse to bring back the Warden, and made that statement public knowledge. So, the plot was obviously done to get rid of the Warden. It will be closed only through codex or NPC mentions. Don't expect more than that.
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Pain Delta
N2
Go back to lesbian college to learn words
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bunkinbronuts
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Post by Pain Delta on May 11, 2017 9:50:23 GMT
Tbh the Warden's story is done, and has been done for a long time. The end to Origins (or Awakening, if your Warden lived to become Warden-Commander) was a great way to wrap it up. Sure, give us updates on what they're doing and how their romances are going in new games, but they aren't the hero anymore and shouldn't be.
I am of the opinion that even Hawke should have never came back in Inquisition, the end of DA2 was perfect as is- especially in a story as tight, themed and structured as Hawke's was. Again, just codex entries and romance updates would've been great!
And I do not think we should see the Inquisitor in DA4- ideally, they would send our new protagonist letters or something since they did kind of set the next game in motion.
A lot of people argue that the Inquisitor has to be in the game, or even that the Inquisitor has to be the player character again- but it was already set up that they need to send someone Solas doesn't know and make sure the connection between our new player character and the Inquisition/Disbanded leftovers isn't made.
What I think is that our Warden (or some other Warden, if your Warden died in your worldstate) found something else during their cure for the calling quest and alerted the other Wardens (with the saved Warden or Hawke) and will set off some other plot point in DA4.
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vindur
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Post by vindur on May 11, 2017 10:08:18 GMT
Tbh the Warden's story is done, and has been done for a long time. The end to Origins (or Awakening, if your Warden lived to become Warden-Commander) was a great way to wrap it up. Sure, give us updates on what they're doing and how their romances are going in new games, but they aren't the hero anymore and shouldn't be. I am of the opinion that even Hawke should have never came back in Inquisition, the end of DA2 was perfect as is- especially in a story as tight, themed and structured as Hawke's was. Again, just codex entries and romance updates would've been great! And I do not think we should see the Inquisitor in DA4- ideally, they would send our new protagonist letters or something since they did kind of set the next game in motion. A lot of people argue that the Inquisitor has to be in the game, or even that the Inquisitor has to be the player character again- but it was already set up that they need to send someone Solas doesn't know and make sure the connection between our new player character and the Inquisition/Disbanded leftovers isn't made. What I think is that our Warden (or some other Warden if your Warden died in your worldstate) will found something else during their cure for the calling quest and alerted the other Wardens with the saved Warden or Hawke and will set off some other plot in DA4. I suppose it's a question of taste and what kind of stories you enjoy. As to myself, I've always liked huge character's developments and great universal-encompassing stories. Did you hear about the Elric of Melniboné, the Albino Emperor/ The Eternal Champion saga? That's some sort of it. I suppose that's why I liked a lot the Warden's story and specially the Morrigan romance canon. I saw that storyline as the one with the greatest potential in almost every sense; and specially in that one of being a great opportunity to build a story of a great Thedas Champion who could have an immense influence clarifying the nature of the Blight, the Tevinter Magisters transgression, the actual story of the most forgotten areas of the Deep Roads, etc. As I still enjoy a lot of Dragon Age videogames and their lore and ambient and etc., for me, this commercial mentality of getting a new shining armour hero out of nowhere for every delivery of the saga it's... mediocre. It always leads to mediocre stories and mediocre resolutions to initially great stories (as it has happened to Origins, I think). BioWare is a firm and needs people to buy their shit, it's the reality we live in (for now), ok. But well, I wanted to share here a final reflection on this issue and the overall nature of human stories and tales  |
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Pain Delta
N2
Go back to lesbian college to learn words
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 74 Likes: 169
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Pain Delta
Go back to lesbian college to learn words
74
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bunkinbronuts
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Pain Delta on May 11, 2017 10:25:35 GMT
Tbh the Warden's story is done, and has been done for a long time. The end to Origins (or Awakening, if your Warden lived to become Warden-Commander) was a great way to wrap it up. Sure, give us updates on what they're doing and how their romances are going in new games, but they aren't the hero anymore and shouldn't be. I am of the opinion that even Hawke should have never came back in Inquisition, the end of DA2 was perfect as is- especially in a story as tight, themed and structured as Hawke's was. Again, just codex entries and romance updates would've been great! And I do not think we should see the Inquisitor in DA4- ideally, they would send our new protagonist letters or something since they did kind of set the next game in motion. A lot of people argue that the Inquisitor has to be in the game, or even that the Inquisitor has to be the player character again- but it was already set up that they need to send someone Solas doesn't know and make sure the connection between our new player character and the Inquisition/Disbanded leftovers isn't made. What I think is that our Warden (or some other Warden if your Warden died in your worldstate) will found something else during their cure for the calling quest and alerted the other Wardens with the saved Warden or Hawke and will set off some other plot in DA4. I suppose it's a question of taste and what kind of stories you enjoy. As to myself, I've always liked huge character's developments and great universal-encompassing stories. Did you hear about the Elric of Melniboné, the Albino Emperor/ The Eternal Champion saga? That's some sort of it. I suppose that's why I liked a lot the Warden's story and specially the Morrigan romance canon. I saw that storyline as the one with the greatest potential in almost every sense; and specially in that one of being a great opportunity to build a story of a great Thedas Champion who could have an immense influence clarifying the nature of the Blight, the Tevinter Magisters transgression, the actual story of the most forgotten areas of the Deep Roads, etc. As I still enjoy a lot of Dragon Age videogames and their lore and ambient and etc., for me, this commercial mentality of getting a new shining armour hero out of nowhere for every delivery of the saga it's... mediocre. It always leads to mediocre stories and mediocre resolutions to initially great stories (as it has happened to Origins, I think). BioWare is a firm and needs people to buy their shit, it's the reality we live in (for now), ok. But well, I wanted to share here a final reflection on this issue and the overall nature of human stories and tales I don't think it is a mediocre or especially a commercial mentality (if you mean consumer focused and not just it being a serial rather than a saga- if the latter ignore this part lol) to have a few small scale modest stories rather than a grand overarching epic. Dragon Age 2 is my favorite because it isn't about a grand new shiny hero to replace to Warden and save the world and discover the lost mysteries of Thedas... it is a familial tragedy about a lone refugee in the grand scheme of the broken mechanism of Kirkwall itself. I find great loss we will probably never get a Dragon Age story like that ever again since things need to get bigger and more epic and more mysterious and such. Even in Origins I found the mini-stories of the origins before Ostegar more rewarding than the endgame truly. It is different tastes though, I'm just expressing my position a bit more lol |
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vindur
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Post by vindur on May 11, 2017 11:15:27 GMT
Of course, I mean, I've always liked me a good story about an specific human social drama, better than this grandilocuent obscure mythologies some authors stick out of their minds in a totally crazy/flamboyant way with no real creativity... but that doesn't mean I don't like a well structured mytology, and there's a lot of strength in some human myths you can get a thrilling to discover, being sometimes key to understand the origin of many fundamental human phenomena.
But if you go for an epic saga with lots of mythological references, go straight ahead and do it right. Dragon Age 2 has sure more of a social tint within the game, but it takes real talent and effort to make a good social/historical issues story worthy of your time. I mean, authors like Gorki and Sean O'Casey could do that just with a great effort hahahaha
And then, when you outright insert such a game in a saga which has more of a mythological character than anything... I'm not sure, at all, of the worth of Dragon Age 2. I didn't like it, to be honest. And not only because of this greatly odd contradiction alone and, as I see it, being a low-effort game. I still went through the game and enjoyed my time; Dragon Age lore, ambient, and charismatic characters are still there and I couldn't miss how the videogames canon advances. But the point is still there: it's an indolent, slothful game, taking it into consideration from a DA canon focus.
The ''commercial mentality'' thing I was talking about was just directed to something obvious for BioWare: you need new heroes and the appearance of novelty to lure new players into the series. It's not profitable to stick with one hero or two and make every new player go through two previous games and pages and pages of codex of their story to at least have a slight clue of what story are they into. That's what I meant
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formerfiend
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formerfiend
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Former_Fiend
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Post by formerfiend on May 11, 2017 11:53:15 GMT
Not chiming in on the discussion about whether or not the Warden's ever coming back(they aren't), I'll instead give you some Warden-related perspectives I had while playing Inquisition.
"Man, my warden would verbally and probably physically slap the shit out of Vivienne for the ignorant nonsense she's spouting at Blackwall about the wardens being useless. He would drag her down to the deep roads, show her a broodmother, tell her exactly how they were made, and tell her 'that's you without us.'"
"Man, my warden would slap the shit out of Clarel for being such a gullible idiot. Good on Loghain, though. I knew recruiting him was the right decision."
"Man, Bioware's really trying to make me dislike the wardens to shill they're new pet faction. It's a shame the inquisition will never hold a candle to the wardens in my heart. If anything they're going to make me dislike them for doing such a disservice to their greatest creation."
"Man, my warden would slap the shit out of Solas for this vague nonsense about how killing the sleeping old gods is a bad idea. Offer a better solution or shut the hell up, you pretentious prick."
"Flemeth, I do not care how much this game is trying to cast you as the misunderstood anti-heroine, I don't care how much they try and sweep the whole, raping wilder men thing under the rug, if you don't leave my Warden's son & babymomma alone, he is going to kill you harder than last time."
"Goddamnit, Solas robbed my Warden of a papa wolf moment. Jackass."
"Wait. Dread Wolf? Oh shit, are they actually going with the idea that killing the old gods is going to make the situation worse? Goddamnit it, this is Wrath of the Lich King all over again. Of all the stupid, inane, pointless plot twists they could have gone with, they go with that? Because god forbid Solas be wrong about something."
Think that about sums up the Warden-related thoughts I had throughout Inquisition.
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