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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2016 3:57:50 GMT
I don't know, maybe you right, the fact: she declared to Hawke, that she very sorry for mages, but dont want to do anything. I'd like a source on her not wanting to do anything. Again, stopping Meredith from committing a massacre is doing a big something. She tells that, when Hawke helps Anders to move into the Chantry imperceptible, if I remember correctly.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2016 4:00:54 GMT
Anders or anyone else, no matter. The war is necessarly, if there is no peaceful solution. The Circle-system totally wrong, and the Chantry does not care about it. As Elthina herself about the Kirkwall Circle. Yes, Kirkwall seems evil... I disagree that the war was necessary, and that there was no peaceful solution. I also disagree that the Circle system is completely wrong, since there are many parts about it that are good like a place for mages to learn how to control their magic. Even the Tevinter Imperium has Circles. And clearly the Chantry did care about it, since the Divine sent the Left Hand to investigate the situation. Sometimes the revolutions only serves to call attention to something that is already intolerable. This is necessary when the peaceful tools have been exhausted, and no one responded. Not the Circles are wrong, the Circle-system are wrong. The prison system. Circles are useful, as schools and libraries (just as in Tevinter). The Divine had not care about the mages, just about the Order, as I see. If the Divine would care about the mages, she would abolish this jails, and convert to schools, and libraries, and prohibits the rite of tranquility. She had not done this things. She had not care about mages.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2016 15:11:33 GMT
But s/he is free and want to stay as free. Why s/he think that the others does not deserve the same to what is s/he? This would be hypocrisy... It's not just freedom. Freedom is one tiny aspect of a much larger system of issues. There is also the fact that the fear of magic is legitimate. Magic is supposed to be unfairly powerful and dangerous. Like nuclear weapons, so to speak. The Circle is not only unjust and cruel, but also very dangerous. Often I wrote why. In the Circle are practically only those who are not quite intensively lick the Templars' ass or don't have some influential supporters (as Vivienne for example), so they can't go out. The Grey Wardens also out of the Circles, then we have a lot of mages, who nothing prevents from to summon a bunch of demon, or become an abomination or something. But why want to be abomination ANYONE? Most of mages don't want more, just live as anyone else. But they are can't because of Chantry propaganda and Circle-system. You can't legalize the cruelty with fear. And as I said: if mage Hawke not a hypocrite, as they arrived in Kirkwall, s/he need to go into the Circle, because s/he dont want to be free, because s/he know, that no one mage deserve the freedom (if s/he is rogue or warrior, s/he know his/her duty, then take Bethany, and put her into the Circle).
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Post by bshep on Sept 10, 2016 15:17:37 GMT
Meridith was a crazy zealoth who blamed the Circle for things that were happening thanks to mages who weren't inside the Circle. But she wasn't the only problem, the Chantry was also full of people who either feed the flames of hate or simply omit themselves from deal with the situation. And there was also the crazy mages and psycopaths like Anders or the one who killed Hawke's mother doing their fair share to make the situation worse.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2016 15:24:26 GMT
Meridith was a crazy zealoth who blamed the Circle for things that were happening thanks to mages who weren't inside the Circle. But she wasn't the only problem, the Chantry was also full of people who either feed the flames of hate or simply omit themselves from deal with the situation. And there was also the crazy mages and psycopaths like Anders or the one who killed Hawke's mother doing their fair share to make the situation worse. Just note in a low voice: Many people outrages what Anders did but not so much care about the Templars did with mages, mage children from the will of the Chantry, and approve the Circle system, which has much more innocent victims than Anders.
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Post by bshep on Sept 10, 2016 15:41:25 GMT
Yes the templars also share some of the blame but at least they stay by your side if you challenge Meridith (thanks to Cullen).
ps: If you are using Google Translator avoid long phrases, otherwise it becomes really hard to understand some of the things you said.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2016 15:49:16 GMT
Yes the templars also share some of the blame but at least they stay by your side if you challenge Meridith (thanks to Cullen). ps: If you are using Google Translator avoid long phrases, otherwise it becomes really hard to understand some of the things you said. Anders also will remain by your side if you don't kill him...or? Maybe I misunderstod you, but I don't really understand what you want to say. (Ps: Sorry for my long sentences, and weak English)
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Post by phoray on Sept 11, 2016 5:48:01 GMT
Ay the moment, the only play through I sided with Meredith was an in the moment hurt filled frustration filled moment the Sarcastic Fem Mage Hawke regretted for the rest of her life. The game supported this feeling pretty well, especially when Carver showed up and said what he did. She atoned by sacrificing herself in the Fade in Inquisition. I would like to explore getting closer to truly siding with her, but even my Murderous Hawke hates her at the moment. 
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Post by rawgrim on Sept 15, 2016 1:04:35 GMT
I sided with her every single time. Mostly due to the insane amount of blood-mages that attacked me. A lunatic she was, but she was right about the blood mages.
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Post by goldengail3 on Sept 15, 2016 1:06:27 GMT
I sided with her every single time. Mostly due to the insane amount of blood-mages that attacked me. A lunatic she was, but she was right about the blood mages. Understandable - my first of all my Hawkes sided with Merdith.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 15, 2016 1:14:44 GMT
I sided with her every single time. Mostly due to the insane amount of blood-mages that attacked me. A lunatic she was, but she was right about the blood mages. A paranoid commander just as dangerous as the blood mages, who used blood magic because they was in hopeless situation. Meredith and her paranoia was one of the biggest cause of Kirkwall's terrible situation.
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Post by goldengail3 on Sept 15, 2016 1:17:29 GMT
I sided with her every single time. Mostly due to the insane amount of blood-mages that attacked me. A lunatic she was, but she was right about the blood mages. A paranoid commander just as dangerous as the blood mages, who used blood magic because they was in hopeless situation. Meredith and her paranoia was one of the biggest cause of Kirkwall's terrible situation. Yes, this is why my canon sided with the mages without blinking an eye, and because Carver would've been mad if i had done otherwise...
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Post by rawgrim on Sept 15, 2016 7:44:10 GMT
I sided with her every single time. Mostly due to the insane amount of blood-mages that attacked me. A lunatic she was, but she was right about the blood mages. A paranoid commander just as dangerous as the blood mages, who used blood magic because they was in hopeless situation. Meredith and her paranoia was one of the biggest cause of Kirkwall's terrible situation. Most of them attacked me even though I HAD sided with them. Piles of them attacked me in the streets. And those morons I spared and helped in chapter 2 kidnapped Bethany and tried to blackmail me later. Even Orsino protected that serial killer that killed Hawke's mother. Meredith wasn't that insane until she got the red lyrium thingy, though. After that she went full nutcase. But out of the two, the mages in Kirkwall were the worst. When they kept proving Meredith right for years, and hiding serial killers, they don't get to play the victim card. I suspect it was the writing that botched the mages side of the story, though. Chapter 3 in particular was a mess in this game. The game was rushed and the story suffered for it.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 15, 2016 11:25:36 GMT
A paranoid commander just as dangerous as the blood mages, who used blood magic because they was in hopeless situation. Meredith and her paranoia was one of the biggest cause of Kirkwall's terrible situation. Most of them attacked me even though I HAD sided with them. Piles of them attacked me in the streets. And those morons I spared and helped in chapter 2 kidnapped Bethany and tried to blackmail me later. Even Orsino protected that serial killer that killed Hawke's mother. Meredith wasn't that insane until she got the red lyrium thingy, though. After that she went full nutcase. But out of the two, the mages in Kirkwall were the worst. When they kept proving Meredith right for years, and hiding serial killers, they don't get to play the victim card. I suspect it was the writing that botched the mages side of the story, though. Chapter 3 in particular was a mess in this game. The game was rushed and the story suffered for it. A persecuted will attack to all threat. Orsino did not know that Quentin is a serial killer. Meredith was paranoid long time ago before red lyrium, because of her sister. She was never suitable for such a role. What happened beforered lyrium: She kicked Samson from the Order (and tranquilized Maddox), for a love letter. She tranquilized Karl for an attempt to escape. This is madness. The tranquilising exist not for such misdemeanors' punishment: this is much more serious. What Meredith did, was much more than abuse of pover or cruelity.
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Post by rawgrim on Sept 15, 2016 14:55:17 GMT
Blood mages kept attacking me way before I had even sided with the templars once. They kept attacking me when I sided with the mages. And the ones I helped attacked me later. Given how 99% of escaped mages actually turned to blood magic anyway, I'd say odds were pretty good that Karl would have done the same.
Turning 1 mage into a tranquil isn't worse than human sacrifice via blood magic.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 15, 2016 15:16:17 GMT
Blood mages kept attacking me way before I had even sided with the templars once. They kept attacking me when I sided with the mages. And the ones I helped attacked me later. Given how 99% of escaped mages actually turned to blood magic anyway, I'd say odds were pretty good that Karl would have done the same. Turning 1 mage into a tranquil isn't worse than human sacrifice via blood magic. I never said that there are no evil people who may be mages as well. This fact does not make acceptable the annulment, nor a paranoid commander, with uncontrolable power over a whole city-state. Don't necessarily need human sacrifice for blood magic, only for the stronger effects (I think, not all of the the blood mages use it. For example everyone is able to kill; despite that not everyone kills his neighbors, just because they have much money... in fact: the relatively small number of people doing this. In Tevinter the slaves' life is not matter much – as in ancient Rome.) We dont know, that Karl was a blood mage, but we know: the Templars found Karl and Anders letters.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 15, 2016 17:48:00 GMT
I don't get this whole Elthina wasn't doing anything. She was doing all she could: keeping Meredith from launching a Right of Annulment. Was she? When Hawke talks with her, she says she didn't expect things to escalate so quickly, or something like. That's because she turned her back hoping time would fix the problem. She was wrong. What could she do? One is to get hold of Cullen and talk to him about Meredith. He could have a couple of templars with him to have Meredith removed. But that can't happen. Cullen is a coward. Its only at the end that he grabs a pair and opposes Meredith. So its a combination of Elthina and the templars, knowing something was wrong with what Meredith is doing, that let to the right of annulment being used. Of course it didn't help that Anders blew up the chantry. I do support Meredith. Its just unfortunate that the idol made her crazy.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 15, 2016 17:57:24 GMT
I don't get this whole Elthina wasn't doing anything. She was doing all she could: keeping Meredith from launching a Right of Annulment. Was she? When Hawke talks with her, she says she didn't expect things to escalate so quickly, or something like. That's because she turned her back hoping time would fix the problem. She was wrong. What could she do? One is to get hold of Cullen and talk to him about Meredith. He could have a couple of templars with him to have Meredith removed. But that can't happen. Cullen is a coward. Its only at the end that he grabs a pair and opposes Meredith. So its a combination of Elthina and the templars, knowing something was wrong with what Meredith is doing, that let to the right of annulment being used. Of course it didn't help that Anders blew up the chantry. I do support Meredith. Its just unfortunate that the idol made her crazy. She was dangerous paranoid even without the idol. She is a pretty character, I see her tragic past and her reasons. Despite this or more precisely because of this she is a terrible leader. Such leader never should to exist.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 15, 2016 18:07:25 GMT
She was dangerous paranoid even without the idol. She is a pretty character, I see her tragic past and her reasons. Despite this or more precisely because of this she is a terrible leader. Such leader never should to exist. No she wasn't. Maybe ruthless, but that's ok. One of the reasons I like her. You mention a leader like her shouldn't exist.. Take a look at the First Encanter calling himself Orsino. There's a loser if ever I met one. The piece of crap that he is failing to mention Quentin that may of saved Hawkes mother. What a dirtbag.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 15, 2016 18:12:57 GMT
She was dangerous paranoid even without the idol. She is a pretty character, I see her tragic past and her reasons. Despite this or more precisely because of this she is a terrible leader. Such leader never should to exist. No she wasn't. Maybe ruthless, but that's ok. One of the reasons I like her. You mention a leader like her shouldn't exist.. Take a look at the First Encanter calling himself Orsino. There's a loser if ever I met one. The piece of crap that he is failing to mention Quentin that may of saved Hawkes mother. What a dirtbag. Do not forget: the idol don't take "himself", and moved to Meredith's room. Meredith bought it, of her own volition, and risk to use the unknown power... as a mage... and her fate was same as a foolish bloodmage's fate. It was brillant! Why Meredith could not resist the temptation? She was not only ruthless, was paranoid, and powerhungry and a hypocrite... (just remember, when she want to convince Hawke to support the Templars, her "empathetic" face was fun.)
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Post by themikefest on Sept 15, 2016 18:24:50 GMT
Do not forget: the idol don't take "himself", and moved to Meredith's room. Meredith bought it, of her own volition, and risk to use the unknown power... as a mage... and her fate was same as a foolish bloodmage's fate. It was brillant! Why Meredith could not resist the temptation? And made it into a nice looking sword. I like it. Too bad warrior Hawke couldn't have a sword like that And it worked. hahaha. My Hawke likes her. Has no problem supporting her. Maybe DA2 can be remade and have Meredith and Hawke on a quest together hunting mages. I would play as mage Hawke. How awesome would that be? excellent
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Post by Catilina on Sept 15, 2016 18:32:56 GMT
Do not forget: the idol don't take "himself", and moved to Meredith's room. Meredith bought it, of her own volition, and risk to use the unknown power... as a mage... and her fate was same as a foolish bloodmage's fate. It was brillant! Why Meredith could not resist the temptation? And made it into a nice looking sword. I like it. Too bad warrior Hawke couldn't have a sword like that And it worked. hahaha. My Hawke likes her. Has no problem supporting her. Maybe DA2 can be remade and have Meredith and Hawke on a quest together hunting mages. I would play as mage Hawke. How awesome would that be? excellent Yes, always awesome, if someone hate himself and working against himself and his kind  But you're right. I can't argue with the sexual attractivity. This is understandable. But... not a logican argument.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 15, 2016 18:39:02 GMT
Yes, always awesome, if someone hate himself and working against himself and his kind His kind? You mean the mages? Why does a mage have to support other mages? What?
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Post by Catilina on Sept 15, 2016 18:43:55 GMT
Yes, always awesome, if someone hate himself and working against himself and his kind His kind? You mean the mages? Why does a mage have to support other mages? Because if mage Hawke support Templars s/he consider him/herself as dangerous cursed thing, who deserves the life imprisonment. Or a hypocrite (its a nice role playing option, I think).
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Post by themikefest on Sept 15, 2016 18:52:47 GMT
Because if mage Hawke support Templars s/he consider him/herself as dangerous cursed thing, who deserves the life imprisonment. Or a hypocrite (its a nice role playing option, I think). I don't care. I can't argue with the sexual attractivity. Can you explain why you posted this?
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