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People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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Post by cankiie on Jun 27, 2019 5:41:27 GMT
It would still be idiocy if they were an all black or all minority gang. It is basically the whole n-word situation. "WE can call ourselves the n-word, and call other's the n-word... but you? Nah fam, you can not call us the n-word because that would be racist." Using the logic of the outraged mob though: who am I, as a white man, to tell what a black man should do, or should be offended by... what am I, racist? Yeah I'm going to fundamentally disagree with your point here because you seem to have trouble grasping how context and intent does make a difference, as well as just drawing a blatant false equivalency. I don't know if you are a racist or are just a troll playing on racism for a laugh which is a bit of a distinction in search of a difference. Okay. And?
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Post by Vortex13 on Jun 27, 2019 14:33:47 GMT
Gee, its almost like a gang of violent criminals are not really the nicest people to be around. Seriously, I don't know why journalists are so caught up on the color of the gang members' skin when the much more important aspect to said gang is that they are (again) violent criminals. Unless of course these journalists feel that certain groups of humanity are somehow incapable of being antagonistic or possessing any negative qualities? That to me would be a bigger sign of racism: "Oh don't ever showcase [insert special interest group here] in a bad light, or have them ever demonstrate any negative qualities. [Insert special interest group here] are so frail that they couldn't possibly handle that sort of abuse in their fictional media." Identity politics is a cancer on modern society. And people wonder why I root for the alien invasions and robot uprisings to wipe us out.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Jun 27, 2019 18:04:35 GMT
Wondering if someone will cosplay the transgender character or The Animals just to trigger people.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jun 27, 2019 19:26:20 GMT
Life in Cyberpunk 2077 ; Romances etc"We do have romances in the game, and I don't want to get into how many we have at this point," he says. "However, you can engage in relationships with different entities, and we believe that each of these NPCs is an interesting and strong character who would be quite memorable, and they have their own goals. They have their own ideas about the world and so on. And you can engage with them, interact with them and their moments."I'm curious to see how they handle the romances especially as they will now be expanded outside of their previous experience. But, but, only Bioware is capable of making video game romances!!!
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 27, 2019 19:42:22 GMT
Gee, its almost like a gang of violent criminals are not really the nicest people to be around. Seriously, I don't know why journalists are so caught up on the color of the gang members' skin when the much more important aspect to said gang is that they are (again) violent criminals. Unless of course these journalists feel that certain groups of humanity are somehow incapable of being antagonistic or possessing any negative qualities? That to me would be a bigger sign of racism: "Oh don't ever showcase [insert special interest group here] in a bad light, or have them ever demonstrate any negative qualities. [Insert special interest group here] are so frail that they couldn't possibly handle that sort of abuse in their fictional media." Identity politics is a cancer on modern society. And people wonder why I root for the alien invasions and robot uprisings to wipe us out. But what if a certain '' special interest group '' that has been historically oppressed, is most of the time given a stereotypical, one-note role that often shows the group in a bad light? Isn't that pretty freaking bad? Most minorities have been shown in bad light throughout the years, and it is disproportional to the amount of times they are shown in good lights. This is not the case of '' certain groups can't be shown as anything but perfect '' but the case of '' certain groups deserved to be shown in good light more often due to the way media and entertainment has portrayed them previously. '' Like, some empathy would go a long way when it comes to things like this. As well as ignoring trashy clickbait journalists who think that because they have a blog or a social media account with some followers, they are going to change the world with their hot takes on politics in video games. I don't have any opinion on whatever is going on, but your dramatics are too much.
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 27, 2019 19:42:46 GMT
Life in Cyberpunk 2077 ; Romances etc"We do have romances in the game, and I don't want to get into how many we have at this point," he says. "However, you can engage in relationships with different entities, and we believe that each of these NPCs is an interesting and strong character who would be quite memorable, and they have their own goals. They have their own ideas about the world and so on. And you can engage with them, interact with them and their moments."I'm curious to see how they handle the romances especially as they will now be expanded outside of their previous experience. But, but, only Bioware is capable of making video game romances!!! Who the fuck ever said that.
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Post by Vortex13 on Jun 27, 2019 20:28:02 GMT
Gee, its almost like a gang of violent criminals are not really the nicest people to be around. Seriously, I don't know why journalists are so caught up on the color of the gang members' skin when the much more important aspect to said gang is that they are (again) violent criminals. Unless of course these journalists feel that certain groups of humanity are somehow incapable of being antagonistic or possessing any negative qualities? That to me would be a bigger sign of racism: "Oh don't ever showcase [insert special interest group here] in a bad light, or have them ever demonstrate any negative qualities. [Insert special interest group here] are so frail that they couldn't possibly handle that sort of abuse in their fictional media." Identity politics is a cancer on modern society. And people wonder why I root for the alien invasions and robot uprisings to wipe us out. But what if a certain '' special interest group '' that has been historically oppressed, is most of the time given a stereotypical, one-note role that often shows the group in a bad light? Isn't that pretty freaking bad? Most minorities have been shown in bad light throughout the years, and it is disproportional to the amount of times they are shown in good lights. This is not the case of '' certain groups can't be shown as anything but perfect '' but the case of '' certain groups deserved to be shown in good light more often due to the way media and entertainment has portrayed them previously. '' Like, some empathy would go a long way when it comes to things like this. As well as ignoring trashy clickbait journalists who think that because they have a blog or a social media account with some followers, they are going to change the world with their hot takes on politics in video games. I don't have any opinion on whatever is going on, but your dramatics are too much. Are we now declaring special interest groups a protected class, shielded from certain topics or themes, because they 'deserve' special treatment while non-speical interest groups get no such accommodations? All in the name of being PC? And if this is being done to offset previous real-world issues (none of which have any baring on what CDPR is doing currently), then when is enough enough? So when they showcase X amount of special interest group members being "good" its okay to have X number of them being "bad"? What about the non special interest groups? When do they get to have protected status? Is there a specific conversion chart for that? I mean, if we're going to say that X, Y & Z groups of people needs to be treated with kid gloves in an otherwise dark, gritty and mature setting, or that certain situations are 'off limits' to what the developers and creator of the IP envision them as, then why not just cancel the game altogether? That way no feelings are hurt.
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 27, 2019 20:40:58 GMT
But what if a certain '' special interest group '' that has been historically oppressed, is most of the time given a stereotypical, one-note role that often shows the group in a bad light? Isn't that pretty freaking bad? Most minorities have been shown in bad light throughout the years, and it is disproportional to the amount of times they are shown in good lights. This is not the case of '' certain groups can't be shown as anything but perfect '' but the case of '' certain groups deserved to be shown in good light more often due to the way media and entertainment has portrayed them previously. '' Like, some empathy would go a long way when it comes to things like this. As well as ignoring trashy clickbait journalists who think that because they have a blog or a social media account with some followers, they are going to change the world with their hot takes on politics in video games. I don't have any opinion on whatever is going on, but your dramatics are too much. Are we now declaring special interest groups a protected class, shielded from certain topics or themes, because they 'deserve' special treatment while non-speical interest groups get no such accommodations? All in the name of being PC? And if this is being done to offset previous real-world issues (none of which have any baring on what CDPR is doing currently), then when is enough enough? So when they showcase X amount of special interest group members being "good" its okay to have X number of them being "bad"? What about the non special interest groups? When do they get to have protected status? Is there a specific conversion chart for that? I mean, if we're going to say that X, Y & Z groups of people needs to be treated with kid gloves in an otherwise dark, gritty and mature setting, or that certain situations are 'off limits' to what the developers and creator of the IP envision them as, then why not just cancel the game altogether? That way no feelings are hurt. You didn't read my post at all. At no point did I specifically talk about Cyberpunk, but all entertainment in general. If you think it's great that minorities and oppressed groups of people are ONLY shown in bad, stereotypical light and not given a wide spectrum of roles in entertainment, then go ahead. Just don't cry when those people live up to the obvious stereotypes that the world is pushing on them.
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Post by Vortex13 on Jun 27, 2019 21:31:02 GMT
Now that's being overly dramatic. Nowhere in western society is there any form of entertainment that ONLY depicts special interest groups in a negative light. It doesn't exist; otherwise the PC police badgering CDPR about Cyberpunk would actually have something to go and protest.
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Post by aglomeracja on Jun 27, 2019 21:57:28 GMT
Are we now declaring special interest groups a protected class, shielded from certain topics or themes, because they 'deserve' special treatment while non-speical interest groups get no such accommodations? All in the name of being PC? And if this is being done to offset previous real-world issues (none of which have any baring on what CDPR is doing currently), then when is enough enough? So when they showcase X amount of special interest group members being "good" its okay to have X number of them being "bad"? What about the non special interest groups? When do they get to have protected status? Is there a specific conversion chart for that? I mean, if we're going to say that X, Y & Z groups of people needs to be treated with kid gloves in an otherwise dark, gritty and mature setting, or that certain situations are 'off limits' to what the developers and creator of the IP envision them as, then why not just cancel the game altogether? That way no feelings are hurt. You didn't read my post at all. At no point did I specifically talk about Cyberpunk, but all entertainment in general. If you think it's great that minorities and oppressed groups of people are ONLY shown in bad, stereotypical light and not given a wide spectrum of roles in entertainment, then go ahead. Just don't cry when those people live up to the obvious stereotypes that the world is pushing on them. What groups are you talking about exactly?
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 27, 2019 22:17:37 GMT
Now that's being overly dramatic. Nowhere in western society is there any form of entertainment that ONLY depicts special interest groups in a negative light. It doesn't exist; otherwise the PC police badgering CDPR about Cyberpunk would actually have something to go and protest. If a majority of a certain group is given roles in media that portray those people in a stereotypical and often negative might, it is an issue which can easily be remedied with giving these people within those groups a wide spectrum of roles. While this Cyberpunk SJW nonsense is nonsense, and probably orchestrated by CDPR themselves, that doesn't change the nature of how roles are given, and how groups of people are still represented in media. Everyone should be able to be bad guys as much as heroes, be main characters, be well-written and be important to the series they are in. I do not think the conscious decision to not want to reach for potentially harmful stereotypes is a bad thing, but sometimes they are called for if the story calls for it, and there's a good reason for it. Just like people cry about there needing to be a reason as to why minorities exist in a series, there should also be a reason as to the lack there of, or why they are represented the way they are. Or alternatively people shut the fuck up regardless if the black guys are all criminals, or if the next James Bond is a gay asian man. If straight white men for instance were largely represented as nazi alt-right hicks in media and not given big roles, that would be an issue to many I'm sure. But that isn't the case as there are plenty types of roles and tropes said group can and will continue to play. The same should apply to other groups. While I do not give a hoot about what some video game " journalist " has to say, and don't agree with their opinion on this matter which is uneducated, just because I don't agree with their opinion on this instance, doesn't mean I don't generally disagree with the general idea they point out regarding how certain groups of people are profiled in a certain way in media which is not really productive.
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Post by aglomeracja on Jun 28, 2019 7:57:02 GMT
Now that's being overly dramatic. Nowhere in western society is there any form of entertainment that ONLY depicts special interest groups in a negative light. It doesn't exist; otherwise the PC police badgering CDPR about Cyberpunk would actually have something to go and protest. If a majority of a certain group is given roles in media that portray those people in a stereotypical and often negative might, it is an issue which can easily be remedied with giving these people within those groups a wide spectrum of roles. Are you talking about Russians? That most likely is a group that is most often stereotypically and negatively portrayed in American media.
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 28, 2019 9:02:43 GMT
If a majority of a certain group is given roles in media that portray those people in a stereotypical and often negative might, it is an issue which can easily be remedied with giving these people within those groups a wide spectrum of roles. Are you talking about Russians? That most likely is a group that is most often stereotypically and negatively portrayed in American media. Sure, yeah. But at least Russians have Russian entertainment and media where Russians are front and center, and probably? get a better array of roles to fill. Though I can't really say much about Russian media and how it represents people.
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Post by aglomeracja on Jun 28, 2019 10:38:28 GMT
Are you talking about Russians? That most likely is a group that is most often stereotypically and negatively portrayed in American media. Sure, yeah. But at least Russians have Russian entertainment and media where Russians are front and center, and probably? get a better array of roles to fill. Though I can't really say much about Russian media and how it represents people. Russia has a pretty long history of oppressing Russians (and other groups as well), that's one of the characteristics of totalitarian political systems. Anyway, assuming that you're talking about LGBT people, I can hardly recall any cases of negative portrayal of those minorities. I guess you could find some cases when they were an object of some jokes that wouldn't pass today (I wouldn't be able to name any specific cases though). Stereotypical, probably yes, but anything negative? Not so much. On the other hand I do remember a lot of the opposite examples and all of them quite mainstream. You can start with Brokeback Mountain, the Harvey Milk movie with Sean Penn, Willem Defoe's character in Bondock Saints, Omar from The Wire, anyone from the Dallas Buyers Club (especially Jared Leto's character), Orange is the new black characters and Bioware games. Then you have Netflix movies and (especially) series, where there's LGBT character (usually more) in pretty much everything they produce and you'd be hard pressed to find any that are shown in negative light. While historically LGBT people were oppressed, most likely in the media as well, these days IMO this may have been even overcorrected. If you think that role of the media is to give voice to the oppressed and maybe correct for some past mistakes, you're likely to find more deserving people elsewhere, probably among groups you haven't even heard about.
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Post by Ieldra on Jun 28, 2019 11:01:28 GMT
A gang of big scary black doods called The Animals? 😏 I can see how people can construe that as racist. Not saying it is. But I can see how people can see it that way. People see things different ways, so I can guess I see the point. However, people should really accept that entertainment products aren't obliged to cater to anyone's special sensibilities. If I were so easily triggered every time something I deeply care about was portrayed negatively in some entertainment product I would never come down from the boiling temperatures. I mean, stories have bad people in them, and some of them will be people like you in some relevant way *and* be loaded with unpleasant epithets.
Furthermore, whatever my "identity" might be - and in my view it's a strictly individual thing, that I have something in common with some other people doesn't mean I want to associate with them, in spite of being a minority trait - it's too resilient to be damaged by games and movies.
I actually wrote a rant about something similar a few years ago so really, I can understand what might bring people do raise shitstorms - but I'm ashamed of it to this day, and I certainly never thought I had a moral right to demand anything. I just wanted to vent that I apparently had to play a character with certain traits I dislike in this game. Which turned out not to be the case, btw. - I had misinterpreted the context.
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 28, 2019 11:13:31 GMT
Sure, yeah. But at least Russians have Russian entertainment and media where Russians are front and center, and probably? get a better array of roles to fill. Though I can't really say much about Russian media and how it represents people. Russia has a pretty long history of oppressing Russians (and other groups as well), that's one of the characteristics of totalitarian political systems. Anyway, assuming that you're talking about LGBT people, I can hardly recall any cases of negative portrayal of those minorities. I guess you could find some cases when they were an object of some jokes that wouldn't pass today (I wouldn't be able to name any specific cases though). Stereotypical, probably yes, but anything negative? Not so much. On the other hand I do remember a lot of the opposite examples and all of them quite mainstream. You can start with Brokeback Mountain, the Harvey Milk movie with Sean Penn, Willem Defoe's character in Bondock Saints, Omar from The Wire, anyone from the Dallas Buyers Club (especially Jared Leto's character), Orange is the new black characters and Bioware games. Then you have Netflix movies and (especially) series, where there's LGBT character (usually more) in pretty much everything they produce and you'd be hard pressed to find any that are shown in negative light. While historically LGBT people were oppressed, most likely in the media as well, these days IMO this may have been even overcorrected. If you think that role of the media is to give voice to the oppressed and maybe correct for some past mistakes, you're likely to find more deserving people elsewhere, probably among groups you haven't even heard about. It all depends on what you mean by negative light. If a black character is shown in positive light, but is incredibly stereotypical or plays a stereotypical role, or said character is thrown in a very predictable story about being black and thrown in roles that are often times given to black roles, is it really all that positive in the end. And then there's the case of if the obligatory black character is given enough time to grow and change as a character, or if they are just a complete irrelevant side character who doesn't really do anything for the story other than being there for the sake of pandering, is that really positive even if the character isn't given any negative traits or isn't shown in '' negative light. '' When I say negative light, I generally mean how the roles are given, handled and such. Not so much whether these characters are evil or bad. Evil and bad characters often end up being super popular as long as they are well-written and they have a great chemistry with the main protagonist. But whether gay, black, trans, female, bi, fat characters are given the opportunity to be these great anatagonistic characters, is another story. It's great that you've found so many great LGBT characters, but as someone inside the LGBT community, I can't say the same. It's great that you can wholeheartedly say that everyhing is amazing now and that things are maybe too good for LGBT characters in entertainment!
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Post by aglomeracja on Jun 28, 2019 12:00:16 GMT
Russia has a pretty long history of oppressing Russians (and other groups as well), that's one of the characteristics of totalitarian political systems. Anyway, assuming that you're talking about LGBT people, I can hardly recall any cases of negative portrayal of those minorities. I guess you could find some cases when they were an object of some jokes that wouldn't pass today (I wouldn't be able to name any specific cases though). Stereotypical, probably yes, but anything negative? Not so much. On the other hand I do remember a lot of the opposite examples and all of them quite mainstream. You can start with Brokeback Mountain, the Harvey Milk movie with Sean Penn, Willem Defoe's character in Bondock Saints, Omar from The Wire, anyone from the Dallas Buyers Club (especially Jared Leto's character), Orange is the new black characters and Bioware games. Then you have Netflix movies and (especially) series, where there's LGBT character (usually more) in pretty much everything they produce and you'd be hard pressed to find any that are shown in negative light. While historically LGBT people were oppressed, most likely in the media as well, these days IMO this may have been even overcorrected. If you think that role of the media is to give voice to the oppressed and maybe correct for some past mistakes, you're likely to find more deserving people elsewhere, probably among groups you haven't even heard about. It all depends on what you mean by negative light. If a black character is shown in positive light, but is incredibly stereotypical or plays a stereotypical role, or said character is thrown in a very predictable story about being black and thrown in roles that are often times given to black roles, is it really all that positive in the end. And then there's the case of if the obligatory black character is given enough time to grow and change as a character, or if they are just a complete irrelevant side character who doesn't really do anything for the story other than being there for the sake of pandering, is that really positive even if the character isn't given any negative traits or isn't shown in '' negative light. '' When I say negative light, I generally mean how the roles are given, handled and such. Not so much whether these characters are evil or bad. Evil and bad characters often end up being super popular as long as they are well-written and they have a great chemistry with the main protagonist. But whether gay, black, trans, female, bi, fat characters are given the opportunity to be these great anatagonistic characters, is another story. It's great that you've found so many great LGBT characters, but as someone inside the LGBT community, I can't say the same. It's great that you can wholeheartedly say that everyhing is amazing now and that things are maybe too good for LGBT characters in entertainment! I guess we agree about the problem then, except I don't think it's a "negative portrayal", but just an idiotic quota of obligatory chararacters with story arcs relating to some social issues instead of the plot. The quality of those story arcs is predictable (almost copy/pasted), boring and hamfisted, all true. The thing is, if your group literally has to be represented in most mediums even if writers don't have any clue how to incorporate them into the plot, then you can't really claim to be oppressed or marginalised. That's pretty much the opposite of that. As for the last paragraph, maybe you need to get outside your community and get Netflix or visit a cinema sometimes. Or maybe look around you and see other marginalised groups that wouldn't be able to find a single character that would be representative of them.
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 28, 2019 12:14:52 GMT
It all depends on what you mean by negative light. If a black character is shown in positive light, but is incredibly stereotypical or plays a stereotypical role, or said character is thrown in a very predictable story about being black and thrown in roles that are often times given to black roles, is it really all that positive in the end. And then there's the case of if the obligatory black character is given enough time to grow and change as a character, or if they are just a complete irrelevant side character who doesn't really do anything for the story other than being there for the sake of pandering, is that really positive even if the character isn't given any negative traits or isn't shown in '' negative light. '' When I say negative light, I generally mean how the roles are given, handled and such. Not so much whether these characters are evil or bad. Evil and bad characters often end up being super popular as long as they are well-written and they have a great chemistry with the main protagonist. But whether gay, black, trans, female, bi, fat characters are given the opportunity to be these great anatagonistic characters, is another story. It's great that you've found so many great LGBT characters, but as someone inside the LGBT community, I can't say the same. It's great that you can wholeheartedly say that everyhing is amazing now and that things are maybe too good for LGBT characters in entertainment! I guess we agree about the problem then, except I don't think it's a "negative portrayal", but just an idiotic quota of obligatory chararacters with story arcs relating to some social issues instead of the plot. The quality of those story arcs is predictable (almost copy/pasted), boring and hamfisted, all true. The thing is, if your group literally has to be represented in most mediums even if writers don't have any clue how to incorporate them into the plot, then you can't really claim to be oppressed or marginalised. That's pretty much the opposite of that. As for the last paragraph, maybe you need to get outside your community and get Netflix or visit a cinema sometimes. Or maybe look around you and see other marginalised groups that wouldn't be able to find a single character that would be representative of them. Those writers are complete daft idiots if they are unable to do the one thing they are hired to do, write well. A change in profession, maybe? Minorities aren't nuclear science. And even if they are, I think part of the writers job is to do some research and get opinions when they are hired to write something they aren't completely familiar with. Or am I crazy to expect that from writers? LGBT and racial minorites aren't marginalized? Holy shit this is huge. I'm going to share this news with the world. I'm going to make you famous!
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Post by slimgrin727 on Jun 28, 2019 12:33:29 GMT
CDPR did do research regarding the Voodoo boys. Both with Mike Pondsmith, their creator, and with native Haitians. The problem is this: CDPR is never going to write about minorities the way progressives want them to, ie; always in a positive light. These people don't want well-rounded and authentic characters, they want pristine Mary Sues. Furthermore, it's not their place to tell the writers how to do their job. OT: here's our awesome bike.
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 28, 2019 12:45:50 GMT
I'm still not talking about CDPR or Cyberpunk specifically. I haven't played the game and neither has anyone else to make any kind of assumption whether it's going to be well-written and thoughtful or just ripe with stereotypes for the sake of stereotypes and being edgy. I doubt it's going to be terrible but I don't think skepticism is uncalled for either way.
I'm definitely going to be skeptical of any '' drama '' surrounding Cyberpunk, it all seems very contrived and orchestrated.
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People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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Post by cankiie on Jun 28, 2019 13:24:25 GMT
Quick reminder that 'The Boondocks' was the best documentary series ever.
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Post by aglomeracja on Jun 28, 2019 13:45:53 GMT
I guess we agree about the problem then, except I don't think it's a "negative portrayal", but just an idiotic quota of obligatory chararacters with story arcs relating to some social issues instead of the plot. The quality of those story arcs is predictable (almost copy/pasted), boring and hamfisted, all true. The thing is, if your group literally has to be represented in most mediums even if writers don't have any clue how to incorporate them into the plot, then you can't really claim to be oppressed or marginalised. That's pretty much the opposite of that. As for the last paragraph, maybe you need to get outside your community and get Netflix or visit a cinema sometimes. Or maybe look around you and see other marginalised groups that wouldn't be able to find a single character that would be representative of them. Those writers are complete daft idiots if they are unable to do the one thing they are hired to do, write well. A change in profession, maybe? Minorities aren't nuclear science. And even if they are, I think part of the writers job is to do some research and get opinions when they are hired to write something they aren't completely familiar with. Or am I crazy to expect that from writers? LGBT and racial minorites aren't marginalized? Holy shit this is huge. I'm going to share this news with the world. I'm going to make you famous! They definitely aren't marginalised in American media. You yourself have said that their representations (often) is obligatory. Hey, I'm all for better writing, but then if they're forced to write an story arc that's supposed to be some sort of social commentary about black people, then what exactly can they write except yet another one "I used to live in a ghetto, my dad was in prison, the police is racist, etc" type of thing? Can't really do that much with an obligatory side story arc.
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Sept 6, 2016 10:00:37 GMT
September 2016
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Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 28, 2019 14:12:26 GMT
Those writers are complete daft idiots if they are unable to do the one thing they are hired to do, write well. A change in profession, maybe? Minorities aren't nuclear science. And even if they are, I think part of the writers job is to do some research and get opinions when they are hired to write something they aren't completely familiar with. Or am I crazy to expect that from writers? LGBT and racial minorites aren't marginalized? Holy shit this is huge. I'm going to share this news with the world. I'm going to make you famous! They definitely aren't marginalised in American media. You yourself have said that their representations (often) is obligatory. Hey, I'm all for better writing, but then if they're forced to write an story arc that's supposed to be some sort of social commentary about black people, then what exactly can they write except yet another one "I used to live in a ghetto, my dad was in prison, the police is racist, etc" type of thing? Can't really do that much with an obligatory side story arc. The obligation to do the absolute minimum when it comes to minority characters is in contrast to the obligation to create white, straight characters for main roles. I don't think there is any push back to a franchise that majorly features white straight people (when it comes to franchises made in corporate surroundings and to maximize profit) but there's definitely push back in minority characters being majorly featured (in blockbusters and video games especially, though there is some change in that, as well as a bunch of opposing voices too). This is of course my perceived opinion on the matter and the state of entertainment. You'll probably have your own view on the situation. I never implied I wanted social commentary though. Just give me some good well-written minority characters in visible, important roles.
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wright1978
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 28, 2019 15:52:44 GMT
Those writers are complete daft idiots if they are unable to do the one thing they are hired to do, write well. A change in profession, maybe? Minorities aren't nuclear science. And even if they are, I think part of the writers job is to do some research and get opinions when they are hired to write something they aren't completely familiar with. Or am I crazy to expect that from writers? LGBT and racial minorites aren't marginalized? Holy shit this is huge. I'm going to share this news with the world. I'm going to make you famous! They definitely aren't marginalised in American media. You yourself have said that their representations (often) is obligatory. Hey, I'm all for better writing, but then if they're forced to write an story arc that's supposed to be some sort of social commentary about black people, then what exactly can they write except yet another one "I used to live in a ghetto, my dad was in prison, the police is racist, etc" type of thing? Can't really do that much with an obligatory side story arc. Research is needed for good writing but right now too often you feel there’s a restrictive environment that leads too often to a safety approach and creative stunting.
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Post by aglomeracja on Jun 28, 2019 17:34:14 GMT
They definitely aren't marginalised in American media. You yourself have said that their representations (often) is obligatory. Hey, I'm all for better writing, but then if they're forced to write an story arc that's supposed to be some sort of social commentary about black people, then what exactly can they write except yet another one "I used to live in a ghetto, my dad was in prison, the police is racist, etc" type of thing? Can't really do that much with an obligatory side story arc. The obligation to do the absolute minimum when it comes to minority characters is in contrast to the obligation to create white, straight characters for main roles. I don't think there is any push back to a franchise that majorly features white straight people (when it comes to franchises made in corporate surroundings and to maximize profit) but there's definitely push back in minority characters being majorly featured (in blockbusters and video games especially, though there is some change in that, as well as a bunch of opposing voices too). This is of course my perceived opinion on the matter and the state of entertainment. You'll probably have your own view on the situation. I never implied I wanted social commentary though. Just give me some good well-written minority characters in visible, important roles. At this point we'd have to talk about specific examples. For instance, CDPR got a lot of criticism for not including racial minorities in the Witcher 3 and the same happened with Kingdom Come Deliverence. I'm sure you can easily find articles, twitter shitstorms and whatnot if you search for it, and in those 2 cases lack of racial minorities was completely justified by the setting. I can also recall another shitstorm after announcment that Scarlett Johannson is going to play a transgender character - she decided not to start in the movie because of that. That's just of the top of my head, I'm sure there's been more.
When it comes to video games, even Bioware got a lot of "push back" regarding Jaal, Gil and some transgender character.
Conversely, I can't recall any of that with Black Panther movie, or Luke Cage series.
Most of the criticism regarding casting racial minority actors in major franchises happens when it's inconsistent with how those characters were previously described in source material, when it doesn't suit the setting or when it's completely forced. I gues that last one is something you also don't appreciate.
The social commentary part is what I think the producers of different shows have in mind, it probably doesn't come from the writers.
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