sjsharp2010
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Post by sjsharp2010 on May 29, 2017 19:55:55 GMT
Yeah DAI I think went over the top by making things a bit too open without filling it with as many interesting quests whereas MEA managed this much better. Because I don't think there's much wrong with MEA it's more the technical glitches and bugs for me that is holding MEA back. Let's not forget that DAI did well for itself so it makes sense for it to continue in that vain. Yes the open world was for the most part maybe too open. But I think it's more they need to find the right balance and given how MEA ended up if they can strike a similar balance to what they did with MEA I think things will work out OK. If they can make the game run as relatively smooth as DAI does and provide zones and things that are similar to MEA's then hopefully they'll be on a winner MEA actually runs far better for me than DAI. Load times are far shorter, and it does not randomly crash. But, I did install mods on DAI, so that's probably that. overall though, what I want to be like in MEA is: less big areas areas easier to navigate/good mounts/freedom of movement spelled out, easy to follow story in each area that is fully voiced companion banter saturation, 'cause, OMG it's frigging sweet to always have comps chatting in Nomad, even as you finish the game, and comment on what's going on like it's a DLC! less companions well that's strange because for me it's the other way round my PC can handle DAI like a charm even with mods. There are some minor graphical glitches with mods but otherwise it runs fine MEA on the other hand sometimes goes through periods where it won't run 5 minutes without crashing. I want to like MEA and I do for the most part but for me the technical problems I've experienced with it do hold it back somewhat.
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Post by snook on May 29, 2017 20:16:54 GMT
I'd like to see Bio try their hand at an open world urban environment. Minrathous in a fully realized Novigrad-esque fashion would be sweet.
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Post by leadintea on May 29, 2017 20:36:12 GMT
I'd like to see Bio try their hand at an open world urban environment. Minrathous in a fully realized Novigrad-esque fashion would be sweet. I'd much rather prefer this than another open world game but c'est la vie.
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Post by thats1evildude on May 29, 2017 20:41:27 GMT
I don't necessarily have a problem with the semi-Open World formula, they just need to refine it a bit. Cut down the amount of content and make what's there more involving. There's lots of good side quests in DAI, but it's overwhelmed by a lot of busywork.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on May 29, 2017 20:54:49 GMT
Is better if they don't do open worlds because I'm sure that they will never fill those huge zones with sidequests.Doing cinematic sidequests is expansive,doing the right quantity of them to fill an open world is even more expensive...and EA will not give the resources for that.
Trespasser was not Open world,and it was better than the rest of DAI.
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Post by Sartoz on May 29, 2017 21:06:37 GMT
Hope they continue with the open world. Inquisition is the best designed world in gaming with how they let lore and even current events shape it. Just walking through those huge areas was enough to tell the story of the ages and put most games to shame. -(_DA4_)-
Graphics aside, I really like to know what you are smoking.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 21:10:24 GMT
I don't necessarily have a problem with the semi-Open World formula, they just need to refine it a bit. Cut down the amount of content and make what's there more involving. There's lots of good side quests in DAI, but it's overwhelmed by a lot of busywork. Which ones would you recommend as good?
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Post by Sartoz on May 29, 2017 21:26:35 GMT
Is better if they don't do open worlds because Snip -(_MEA_)-
Open world concept is not the boogeyman. It's more of a lack of understanding of how to properly use that space. DA:I has vast areas, poor content like bottles and portraits of all things, lots of crap loot, idiotic side quests and the need to be an expert in bunny hopping.
What Bio must do is take lessons from TW3 and ME:A to heart. Also no freaking clones and other assets, proper cinematics, no ugly faces, a better CC than DA:I, better inventory mgt, better navigation menus and better crafting without complex and confusing choices and stop pandering to the SJW fantasies.... if you don't want to put DA:4 on ice after launch.
Also, sell a quality game.... is that too hard to ask?
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Post by simit on May 29, 2017 23:43:45 GMT
Yeah loot was proper "off" in DA:I base game, jaws of hakkon though showed they knew that i hope
For the next game i hope they introduce some sets like The Taken Shape from Tresspaser alot earlier in the games life and the actual players playthrough, that was / is a great set but your lucky to get a hours use out of it, crying shame really, just glad a got the armour schem
Plus if wee can go Qunari again plz atleast one helm schematic😆
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Post by thats1evildude on May 30, 2017 3:40:19 GMT
I don't necessarily have a problem with the semi-Open World formula, they just need to refine it a bit. Cut down the amount of content and make what's there more involving. There's lots of good side quests in DAI, but it's overwhelmed by a lot of busywork. Which ones would you recommend as good? Off the top of my head: -Praise the Herald of Andraste in the Hinterlands -Trouble with Wolves in The Hinterlands -Strange Bedfellows in The Hinterlands -The Ballad of Lord Woolsley (though it really needs a cutscene) -Shallow Breaths (I like how you can later convince the son to return home) -The Vault of Valammar (though I dislike that the area is really-used for Varric's side quest) -Lost Souls in the Fallow Mire -Still Water in Crestwood (Crestwood in general is very well-designed) -Cleaning House on the Storm Coast -Lost Temple of Dirthamen -Chateau D'Onterre in the Emerald Graves -Noble Deeds Noble Heart (Emerald Graves)The Still Ruins (all associated quests) in the Western Approach -Most of the Emprise Du Lion questline (though when you confront the mayor, there should be a cutscene where you either let her off the hook or order her taken away) -The Trouble with Darkspawn (Western Approach) -Someone to Lose/Something to Prove (Exalted Plains) -The Tomb of Fairel (Hissing Wastes) I did generally like closing rifts and fighting dragons as well. Also, although it wasn't a quest, I liked that boy with the vanishing Chantry sister in the HW. In general, I favour quests that require a choice beyond simply whether or not to do it. An alternate solution, a moral choice, etc. There were other quests I would have liked more if they were properly levelled or weren't buggy as hell. The Knight's Tomb in the EG is a prime example: a Level 12-15 quest in a Level 16-19 area.
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Post by Abraxas on May 30, 2017 4:06:29 GMT
I dislike open world, especially how it was handled in both DAI and MEA, however I can deal with it as long as we don't get a single desert. Seriously. Bioware has abused and misused deserts in both DAI and MEA and I pray they never include them or their snowy variations in an open world game ever again. If we are playing in Tevinter, expect more deserts. Lorewise, the Anderfells and Tevinter have a lot of those (because the First and Second Blights).
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on May 30, 2017 4:21:55 GMT
I dislike open world, especially how it was handled in both DAI and MEA, however I can deal with it as long as we don't get a single desert. Seriously. Bioware has abused and misused deserts in both DAI and MEA and I pray they never include them or their snowy variations in an open world game ever again. If we are playing in Tevinter, expect more deserts. Lorewise, the Anderfells and Tevinter have a lot of those (because the First and Second Blights). I hope to see more unique flora and fauna in Tewinter, etc. I'm fine with open world zones. With area that are supposed to be populated, I'd expect to see more bustle and life, a realistic depiction of villages / towns / farms, with relevant side quests. With areas that are supposed to be desert like, I don't expect any bustle but minute life; fauna. They could intro small desert tribes if they're inclined to. It's time they intro the sea / ocean, I should think.
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Post by Kabraxal on May 30, 2017 6:12:22 GMT
Hope they continue with the open world. Inquisition is the best designed world in gaming with how they let lore and even current events shape it. Just walking through those huge areas was enough to tell the story of the ages and put most games to shame. -(_DA4_)-
Graphics aside, I really like to know what you are smoking.
Each zone is distinctly shaped bt its history and the cultures that have wondered through them. - The Sword Coast shows you the story of an isolated stretch of shore battered by minor skirmishes of the various states and ruled by the forces of nature and the fade... until you stumble upon the ancient dwarven statues and tunnels that whisper at a grand lost history eras past. - the western approach showcases the stretch of a once massive Tevinter empire worn by time, trapped by hubris, and the dominating scar that is the Blight. - the Hinterlands shows a once controlled region torn by war, rebuilding and struggling, and again the common ties of an ancient empire fallen to a shell of itself because of the Blight. - The emerald graves... wild, dotted with glimpses of the ancient Elvish culture lost to war with Andraste, and showing even hints of the far older Ancient Elven empire long lost to the world. This you are never outright told. The endgame and Trespasser simply connect the dots by immaculate attention to detail. - the hissing wastes... a monument to the foibles of multiple empires and outcasts. Beautiful desolation with a starscaps ME would bow to, this zone, often derided by those that do not like to explore, is the pinnacle of world design. From the pure aesthetic of the desert to the ruins that speak ages of history before you even find one note... to how it ties into a deeper secret that is only hinted at (question if you didn't pay attention: why would ruins of dwarves, outcast or not, contain puzzles that trigger attacks from creatures of the fade?). This map alone shames most games out there. I could go on for each zone, but even by shaving off more you learn in each zone means this would be a book. Inquisition is a masterclass in design. It's a shame most people decry it because it doesn't plaster everything in neon and scream its meaning. This series has always been about the subtler meanings hiding in the shadows. The first events players have with the fade wuite clearly showes this. Inquisition just hammers it home. They built an entire world not only harboring a codex of history, but one that was shaped by it and continues to be molded as players enter its history. It's as close to gaming perfection as anyone has ever gotten.
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Post by leadintea on May 30, 2017 8:55:04 GMT
I dislike open world, especially how it was handled in both DAI and MEA, however I can deal with it as long as we don't get a single desert. Seriously. Bioware has abused and misused deserts in both DAI and MEA and I pray they never include them or their snowy variations in an open world game ever again. If we are playing in Tevinter, expect more deserts. Lorewise, the Anderfells and Tevinter have a lot of those (because the First and Second Blights). Wonderful. I hope nothing of import happens there that we need to visit, but knowing how empty and easy deserts are to make, we're probably going to have to go to multiple of them like in DAI and MEA. I'm still holding out hope on a Minrathous focused setting just to avoid having to deal with big, empty swaths of land.
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Post by Catilina on May 30, 2017 8:59:43 GMT
-(_DA4_)-
Graphics aside, I really like to know what you are smoking. Each zone is distinctly shaped bt its history and the cultures that have wondered through them. - The Sword Coast shows you the story of an isolated stretch of shore battered by minor skirmishes of the various states and ruled by the forces of nature and the fade... until you stumble upon the ancient dwarven statues and tunnels that whisper at a grand lost history eras past.
- the western approach showcases the stretch of a once massive Tevinter empire worn by time, trapped by hubris, and the dominating scar that is the Blight.
- the Hinterlands shows a once controlled region torn by war, rebuilding and struggling, and again the common ties of an ancient empire fallen to a shell of itself because of the Blight.
- The emerald graves... wild, dotted with glimpses of the ancient Elvish culture lost to war with Andraste, and showing even hints of the far older Ancient Elven empire long lost to the world. This you are never outright told. The endgame and Trespasser simply connect the dots by immaculate attention to detail.
- the hissing wastes... a monument to the foibles of multiple empires and outcasts. Beautiful desolation with a starscaps ME would bow to, this zone, often derided by those that do not like to explore, is the pinnacle of world design. From the pure aesthetic of the desert to the ruins that speak ages of history before you even find one note... to how it ties into a deeper secret that is only hinted at (question if you didn't pay attention: why would ruins of dwarves, outcast or not, contain puzzles that trigger attacks from creatures of the fade?). This map alone shames most games out there.
I could go on for each zone, but even by shaving off more you learn in each zone means this would be a book. Inquisition is a masterclass in design. It's a shame most people decry it because it doesn't plaster everything in neon and scream its meaning. This series has always been about the subtler meanings hiding in the shadows. The first events players have with the fade wuite clearly showes this. Inquisition just hammers it home.
They built an entire world not only harboring a codex of history, but one that was shaped by it and continues to be molded as players enter its history. It's as close to gaming perfection as anyone has ever gotten. Yes, nice. Unfortunately, the mines, the weeds, and the stray goats all overshadow this.
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Post by Kabraxal on May 30, 2017 9:23:22 GMT
Each zone is distinctly shaped bt its history and the cultures that have wondered through them. - The Sword Coast shows you the story of an isolated stretch of shore battered by minor skirmishes of the various states and ruled by the forces of nature and the fade... until you stumble upon the ancient dwarven statues and tunnels that whisper at a grand lost history eras past.
- the western approach showcases the stretch of a once massive Tevinter empire worn by time, trapped by hubris, and the dominating scar that is the Blight.
- the Hinterlands shows a once controlled region torn by war, rebuilding and struggling, and again the common ties of an ancient empire fallen to a shell of itself because of the Blight.
- The emerald graves... wild, dotted with glimpses of the ancient Elvish culture lost to war with Andraste, and showing even hints of the far older Ancient Elven empire long lost to the world. This you are never outright told. The endgame and Trespasser simply connect the dots by immaculate attention to detail.
- the hissing wastes... a monument to the foibles of multiple empires and outcasts. Beautiful desolation with a starscaps ME would bow to, this zone, often derided by those that do not like to explore, is the pinnacle of world design. From the pure aesthetic of the desert to the ruins that speak ages of history before you even find one note... to how it ties into a deeper secret that is only hinted at (question if you didn't pay attention: why would ruins of dwarves, outcast or not, contain puzzles that trigger attacks from creatures of the fade?). This map alone shames most games out there.
I could go on for each zone, but even by shaving off more you learn in each zone means this would be a book. Inquisition is a masterclass in design. It's a shame most people decry it because it doesn't plaster everything in neon and scream its meaning. This series has always been about the subtler meanings hiding in the shadows. The first events players have with the fade wuite clearly showes this. Inquisition just hammers it home.
They built an entire world not only harboring a codex of history, but one that was shaped by it and continues to be molded as players enter its history. It's as close to gaming perfection as anyone has ever gotten. Yes, nice. Unfortunately, the mines, the weeds, and the stray goats all overshadow this. Got it. Can't sctually respond to a though list and have to retreat to a weak retort. Hope you know that goat is something more than it seems too. I can keep going if you want me to keep proving my point. I have no issue talking about the greatness of Inquisition. Though I do wish you actually post something with some backbone to it.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 30, 2017 9:33:50 GMT
More open zones? Excellent choice.
It's down to what you do with it of course, but the general approach from DAI and MEA is the right one, in my view.
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Post by Catilina on May 30, 2017 9:33:54 GMT
Yes, nice. Unfortunately, the mines, the weeds, and the stray goats all overshadow this. Got it. Can't sctually respond to a though list and have to retreat to a weak retort. Hope you know that goat is something more than it seems too. I can keep going if you want me to keep proving my point. I have no issue talking about the greatness of Inquisition. Though I do wish you actually post something with some backbone to it. But THIS is my problem with the open world MMO simulators. The forced gatherings, the shitquests make them tiring, and reduce from the replayability value. This is a story based RPG (or at least should be...), in principle with many nuance and high replayability value. But how I can replay, if I stuck in the shit? And not only the open zones are filled with trash. For example a main story quest: the Wicked Eyes, Wicked Hallashits. This is the worst part of the game, because of the halla statuettes. This quest full of unexploited opportunity, instead we got an annoying gathering quest. This is typical for almost the whole game.
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Post by saandrig on May 30, 2017 9:39:44 GMT
I could go on for each zone, but even by shaving off more you learn in each zone means this would be a book. Inquisition is a masterclass in design. While I get where you are coming from and I agree to some small extent, to me it is more of a case that "Inquisition had ideas about the zones that were never fully developed." The maps are mostly distinct in design, but what you describe as "masterclass" sounds to me like looking at pretty pictures during PnP session of D&D, then reading some text and creating your own image of awesomeness in your own head. It works great, but it is not how it's supposed to be done in a game like DAI. You are not supposed to read a codex entry about what happens/ed/ing in the Hissing wastes and end it there. You should be able to experience it and the codex should act as some extra flavor if you are intrigued for more. Not as the only guddamn silent tour guide. Let us see the looters, travelers, scavengers, archeologists, etc. (no, the Venatori excuse doesn't count), let us talk with them, get quests that give us a reason to explore the ruins and experience the map with all of it's history and secrets. How much better would that be compared to "you walk aimlessly through a pretty desert, you stumble on some ruins, you read a text, you kill <generic monsters 428>. Isn't that exciting and a masterclass in design?". Look at the Descent DLC (I thought I was the only one who enjoyed it), it is just a corridor run through some pretty looking Deep Roads while doing regular fighting. But since the start you are presented with a problem that needs solving (and not through a damn codex entry) and throughout the entire journey you receive feedback from actual voiced NPC "tour guides" that are appropriate to the setting and give you a good grasp of where you are and what is happening. You can read the codex entries too, but they are not vital to experience the zone and the mystery. Some can claim this is "spoon feeding the player", but if so, why are we having video games instead of only DA books with pretty pictures? It reminds me of the same problem Mass Effect 1 had. There were side quests, but many of them came down to running through the same room/s and the biggest difference was the text that described the quest and how some crates were arranged. How is that fun? "Ok, buddy, here is your quest description on this piece of paper. Now run through this room. Done? Ok, here is another piece of paper describing a different quest. Now run back through the same room. Rince and repeat." Some people actually found that amazing. I found it lazy.
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Post by Heimdall on May 30, 2017 12:09:23 GMT
I'd like to see Bio try their hand at an open world urban environment. Minrathous in a fully realized Novigrad-esque fashion would be sweet. I'd almost prefer it if they separated it into districts, like Kirkwall. That way there's no risk of losing the sense of scale the city should have.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on May 30, 2017 12:19:55 GMT
More open zones? Excellent choice. It's down to what you do with it of course, but the general approach from DAI and MEA is the right one, in my view. I agree I don' t think they did a bad job with their open worlds idea they just need to be balanced better I think. A little more like what they did with MEA really than DAI as they did probably have too many collectathon type missions in DAI and the zones were probably a touch too open because of it. They had the right ideas I think they just need to be a little better fine tuned
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 12:35:31 GMT
As long as we get more dragons, I'm happy
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Sah291
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Post by Sah291 on May 30, 2017 14:04:55 GMT
Got it. Can't sctually respond to a though list and have to retreat to a weak retort. Hope you know that goat is something more than it seems too. I can keep going if you want me to keep proving my point. I have no issue talking about the greatness of Inquisition. Though I do wish you actually post something with some backbone to it. But THIS is my problem with the open world MMO simulators. The forced gatherings, the shitquests make them tiring, and reduce from the replayability value. This is a story based RPG (or at least should be...), in principle with many nuance and high replayability value. But how I can replay, if I stuck in the shit? And not only the open zones are filled with trash. For example a main story quest: the Wicked Eyes, Wicked Hallashits. This is the worst part of the game, because of the halla statuettes. This quest full of unexploited opportunity, instead we got an annoying gathering quest. This is typical for almost the whole game. Oh man, the halla statues drove me nuts. I did enjoy that quest as one of the better ones in the game. But the gameplay aspects I liked about it were the story driven parts where you had to earn court approval at the ball. Meanwhile you were investigating political intrigue, hunting for evidence, and having to talk to the right people and make the right dialogue choices in order to earn their respect or you could fail and get thrown out. That in of itself was plenty interesting, they didn't need to go so overboard with all the halla statues and timers. It distracts from the focus of the mission, and story, which was about power brokering and playing "The Game" not hunting for keys. It was an otherwise original and refreshing quest, that I wanted to see more of. But I agree, that the quests in a single player RPG should be mostly story driven, and should ultimately support the main story narrative. Too much grinding and gathering like in an MMO just feels pointless to me in a single player game. Beyond crafting armor and potions, etc, it should be used sparingly.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 14:28:52 GMT
Yes, nice. Unfortunately, the mines, the weeds, and the stray goats all overshadow this. Got it. Can't sctually respond to a though list and have to retreat to a weak retort. Hope you know that goat is something more than it seems too. I can keep going if you want me to keep proving my point. I have no issue talking about the greatness of Inquisition. Though I do wish you actually post something with some backbone to it. Well, how about the maps that do not clearly show the roads? That's the MAIN point of a map after all. Not to show the landscape, to show the roads. look at historic maps, they are practical, not pretty pictures of no use whatsoever.
Why can't I pay someone to deliver a message to Skyhold to initiate an Operation? One of those Inquisition scouts, perhaps, that I am supposed to have at my command? Why can't the road be cleared locally??? I, the Inquisoitor, need it RIGHT NOW, not after I spent a week climbing back to Skyhold and consulting Cullen...
How about not being able to climb a boulder or a log or swim at all? It's not that high, water's not that deep... Some games give you wings. This is not this sort of a game, but still, the amount of dead ends is idiotic.
Where is greatness in nobody actually talking to the Inquisitor, instead leaving messages pinned to the trees, and the game being a simulation of visiting a retreat with a vow of silence?
What about never happening on colorful personalities to sit down and chat about each area? Wandering in silence enjoying the landscape is a nature walk, where are the people of Ferelden? Why are my friends mum, and will only talk in Skyhold?
Origins had memorable characters here and there, like the Girl and Her Demon Kitty. Or walking on the battlefield to find Kings body nailed to the bridge. In Inquisition, I've managed to kill an area mini-boss, and only got clued in that he was a mini-boss while looting because he suddenly spoke up (I know, it was an incredible experience, a character in Inquisition talking...) It was that indistinguishable from a random Spawn #45621.
Why is NOBODY talking?! Why the lore comes from driving stakes in the ground?! It's a videogame, it gotta have characters, not texts, texts, and more texts...
and how's finding 5 or 15 caches is enriching the tale better than finding one or two?
Anyway, TL:DR, no matter what DA4 is like, I hope it's populated by colorful personalities that like talking about stuff, like building roads, and are really good at cartography. If I have to pay for a map upgrade, I will, make it in-game feature, but give me a map that shows how to get to where I need to be next. I do not enjoy silent hours of faux hiking. I'd rather go outside to actually hike than do it in a videogame. In a videogame, I want action & fun, not being endlessly lost.
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luketrevelyan
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Post by luketrevelyan on May 30, 2017 16:44:57 GMT
I think MEA shows they are getting better with the open world aspects, but I'm still unconvinced that's a good direction for BioWare. IMO it would be better to concentrate on their strengths (story and characters) rather than open world. With DAI I felt like the open world portion of the game was the worst part. With MEA I felt like that part was better but the story and characters suffered (as a result?).
If they really feel the need to continue in that direction: 1. Have fewer zones with more to do 2. No fetch quests or at least give them story context 3. Interesting NPCs in the zones 4. Cities 5. Towns 6. Anything that's not wilderness 7. No deserts
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