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Post by ellanathehamster on Jul 27, 2017 10:51:23 GMT
I prefer set orientations by far. Sexual orientation is a part of a character, I think it should not be affected by fans and their desire to romance them. Having their own preference, opinions, beliefs is what makes them more real and stronger, as a character. I personally really like how Bioware managed DAI romances- with race gate specifically. I also like that they can broke up with you if you do something, that those characters dislike- for example: Leliana will leave, if you destroy Urn of sacred Ashes; Alistair breaks up with you if you decide to forgive Loghain; Sera will break up with you, if you are an elf and believe in elven gods too hard; Solas won't continue relationship if you kill his spirit friend and won't apologize. There may be more examples, those are only few that I know of. As far as I know though, DA2 doesn't have this kind of break ups, initiated by not your OC but character himself/herself. Which, imo, makes game storytelling weaker. Like Fenris was abused by blood magic and still he won't at least be angry at Hawke for practicing it? In next DAI I would like to see more of those aspects. This is why I like gender and race gating. I'd also like to see more of "story gating". When he/she won't accept you, if you do something that is against to what he/she believes. I also LOVED what they did to romanced Bull in Trespasser, if Inq convinced him to sacrifice Chargers and return to the Qun. This is what real RPG suppose to do- not only allow you to make a choice but also bear consequences of it.
I disagree with people, who say that Solas is racist because he is into female Lavellan. Like really? It's called personal preference. He isn't obligated to have sex with you just because you exist. Not wanting to have a relationship with qunari/human/dwarf does not make him racist. Just like it does not make Cullen racist. Look at it this way: you choose those character based on YOUR OWN preference and it's only fair if they choose with whom to have a relationship based on THEIR preferences.
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Post by Walter Black on Jul 27, 2017 12:18:08 GMT
I prefer set orientations by far. Sexual orientation is a part of a character, I think it should not be affected by fans and their desire to romance them. Having their own preference, opinions, beliefs is what makes them more real and stronger, as a character. I personally really like how Bioware managed DAI romances- with race gate specifically. I also like that they can broke up with you if you do something, that those characters dislike- for example: Leliana will leave, if you destroy Urn of sacred Ashes; Alistair breaks up with you if you decide to forgive Loghain; Sera will break up with you, if you are an elf and believe in elven gods too hard; Solas won't continue relationship if you kill his spirit friend and won't apologize. There may be more examples, those are only few that I know of. As far as I know though, DA2 doesn't have this kind of break ups, initiated by not your OC but character himself/herself. Which, imo, makes game storytelling weaker. Like Fenris was abused by blood magic and still he won't at least be angry at Hawke for practicing it? In next DAI I would like to see more of those aspects. This is why I like gender and race gating. I'd also like to see more of "story gating". When he/she won't accept you, if you do something that is against to what he/she believes. I also LOVED what they did to romanced Bull in Trespasser, if Inq convinced him to sacrifice Chargers and return to the Qun. This is what real RPG suppose to do- not only allow you to make a choice but also bear consequences of it. I disagree with people, who say that Solas is racist because he is into female Lavellan. Like really? It's called personal preference. He isn't obligated to have sex with you just because you exist. Not wanting to have a relationship with qunari/human/dwarf does not make him racist. Just like it does not make Cullen racist. Look at it this way: you choose those character based on YOUR OWN preference and it's only fair if they choose with whom to have a relationship based on THEIR preferences. If only; there are far too many players who insist that RPG should be written exclusively to suite them, rather than provide an interesting world and characters they can join. They see characters with specific preferences as some kind of attack on their self-inserts, rather than an opportunity to create different types of persona and story to explore. Or you know, to actually ROLE PLAY .
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Post by Catilina on Jul 27, 2017 12:25:56 GMT
I prefer set orientations by far. Sexual orientation is a part of a character, I think it should not be affected by fans and their desire to romance them. Having their own preference, opinions, beliefs is what makes them more real and stronger, as a character. I personally really like how Bioware managed DAI romances- with race gate specifically. I also like that they can broke up with you if you do something, that those characters dislike- for example: Leliana will leave, if you destroy Urn of sacred Ashes; Alistair breaks up with you if you decide to forgive Loghain; Sera will break up with you, if you are an elf and believe in elven gods too hard; Solas won't continue relationship if you kill his spirit friend and won't apologize. There may be more examples, those are only few that I know of. As far as I know though, DA2 doesn't have this kind of break ups, initiated by not your OC but character himself/herself. Which, imo, makes game storytelling weaker. Like Fenris was abused by blood magic and still he won't at least be angry at Hawke for practicing it? In next DAI I would like to see more of those aspects. This is why I like gender and race gating. I'd also like to see more of "story gating". When he/she won't accept you, if you do something that is against to what he/she believes. I also LOVED what they did to romanced Bull in Trespasser, if Inq convinced him to sacrifice Chargers and return to the Qun. This is what real RPG suppose to do- not only allow you to make a choice but also bear consequences of it. I disagree with people, who say that Solas is racist because he is into female Lavellan. Like really? It's called personal preference. He isn't obligated to have sex with you just because you exist. Not wanting to have a relationship with qunari/human/dwarf does not make him racist. Just like it does not make Cullen racist. Look at it this way: you choose those character based on YOUR OWN preference and it's only fair if they choose with whom to have a relationship based on THEIR preferences. Hawke can't start a romance with Anders, if let sloth demon to posses Feynriel. (Anders says, that perhaps Merrill would be better partner to Hawke.) And he follows his own way in friendship (even in romance), if Hawke supports the Templars at the end.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 13:16:49 GMT
Walter Black don't know why I am doing it, because your mind is all made up, and you clearly stated your distaste for the "wrong" way to play an RPG in a post earlier on, but fwiw, here is the answer to your questions.
1) What exactly is so fascinating to you about Dorian and his romance arc that you feel you can't get from any other characters?
Dorian is the only attractive character for me to romance. I have explained it in details why in this thread & and in other threads. His background, his points of view, his VA… it’s all stellar, and it all speaks to me as a person I am. In short, in DAI, nobody else comes even close to “second best” to Dorian. In short, he is a hyperattractive man, and nobody compares to him in the whole cast & my unique background and life circumstances make me ADORE his dialogue. I get it what it means to be a “tevinter” in the “south”. The moment he showed up in the game, there was nobody else who was "romance", even if Blackwall & IB "romances" were not a sad waste of development budget. Neither Blackwall nor Iron Bull would have delivered anything even remotely as desirable as Dorian's romantic arc, not to mention that Dorian was plot important, while Bull and Blackwall were a sideshow. No, no, no and no, absolutely not. It's not the same at all, to play a romance you dig, vs a romance for the sake of clicking "Flirt" option. There is no point in playing a romance you are not interested in.
2) Just what is it do you think you could get out of romancing Dorian as a woman that you cannot get while roleplaying as a man?
I only played DAI once. I overall did not like the game. But the two things I totally LOVED about the game was that I could play a Female Qunari & Dorian. A Female Qunari made for an AWESOME character, just what I always wanted to play in a game, tall, athletic, cool, awesome female. I normally NEVER get to play an avatar like that, as females normally look small, curvy & get high voices. She actually had deltoids for gods’ sake… But 12 hours into it, it became apparent that the only person I want to romance was Dorian. I rerolled as a male… as I had done multiple times before in BiOWARE games, when males got multiple romance options, while females only got one, and that – a lackluster ones. So, here we go again, rerolling a male to get the romantic content I wanted. Again. And that's just after having a complete, awesome freedom of expression & creation in DA2. 3)Why would you have to be "forced" to roll a male PC anyway? Why couldn't such a character be an equally rewarding narrative?
Because I so badly wanted to play a Female Qunari as the Inquisitor and the Hero of the Story. The Male one is just not the same....
4) While a hypothetical straight Dorian's struggles would still be dramatic, why do you deny that they simply wouldn't have the same weight or resonance as a gay man?
What? I said, it would work, and it would not take away anything from a player who rolled a male PC. In fact, the story may stay exactly the same as it was now for a male PC. But it also give what I believe is the best romance in the game to a player who rolled a female PC. Win-win. That's why I will always totally supported bi Jaal to give more options to male avatars with male NPCs. Everyone can have the experience.
5) Why do you have such a problem with David Gaider writing the character HE created the way HE wanted? Specifically, that the entire point of Dorian Pavus is that he was an openly gay man in Tevinter?
I strongly disagree that the entire point of Dorian is to be an openly gay man in Tevinter. There is million things more to him, and I sure did not re-roll into a male PC to get my kicks from the sex scenes featuring two hot males kissing, because I have weird sexual fantasies. and need an outlet or something... If there is a problem I have with Gaider is that Dorian's dialogues lead on the female pc, instead of cutting it off like Sera does with a male. And after that it does not even let the female pc to stay in love either, because the options disappear even if you do not engage into a romance your PC is "approved" for...
6) Why is your ability to romance Dorian as a female more important than David Gaider's artistic vision, or the character's importance in LGBTQ representation?
I despise anyone who openly or covertly thinks that they have the right to judge other folks’ love life. Including the digital lovelife in videogames. I was happy to have bisexual romances from Sky onward in the videogames. I think every player should be able to create a character they love and have a grand romantic story as a part of the narrative that suits their head canon and how they define their Main, including the Main's sexual orientation.
There are always less great male than female NPCs with romances, so from the pure % audience share it helps to have more people interested in seeing cool male NPCs with romances.
It is my game & I want it to adapt to my wants. I do not want to surrender my right to create my Main character for a BiOWARE game in order to see the lovestory that fits into my narrative. I chose to play Anders’ romance as a gay male character, because I loved M!Hawke more, I played Reyes romance with a male, because I've liked it on my second run as a male. But in Inquisition, I wanted so badly to play a female Qunari, and I could not, because then I would miss out on the only romance I wanted on my only playthrough. And it still annoys me. My DAI run was far from perfect, and it was made worse by having to play a Main that was not my first choice and losing 12 hours of the first attempt.
And, well, were Dorian bisexual, won't he still represent the LGBTQ community? Or are there some internal political intricacies that dictate that in a videogame it should absolutely be G not B to make the LGBTQ happy? To me that makes no sense, because ideally, it should incite no comment or special note at all if the person you fall in love with or who falls in love with you is male or female, and the feelings should be dealt with by the persons involved privately, rather than the onlookers. In a video game, we already have a very limited number of characters with very limited dialogue options, so restrictions are noticeable & grating.
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Post by ellanathehamster on Jul 27, 2017 14:36:13 GMT
It's not about sole representation of LGBTQ. It's about changing part of Dorian. He didn't choose to be attracted to males, same as Solas didn't chose to be attracted to females, same as Josie to be attracted to both males and females. Why is it hard to accept and move on? RPG allows you to actually roll characters of different genders, why not use it if you really like a character and want to romance him? We should respect their preferences as well. It doesn't always have to be about our PC and what he/she wants.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 14:56:14 GMT
It's not about sole representation of LGBTQ. It's about changing part of Dorian. He didn't choose to be attracted to males, same as Solas didn't chose to be attracted to females, same as Josie to be attracted to both males and females. Why is it hard to accept and move on? RPG allows you to actually roll characters of different genders, why not use it if you really like a character and want to romance him? We should respect their preferences as well. It doesn't always have to be about our PC and what he/she wants. I did, and I wrote that entire post explaining why it was a subpar experience & why having it like DA2 would have been better imo. The post is available for reading.
It's fine to disagree with it, but that's how I feel and someone else's experience and feelings do not invalidate mine. Absolutely, there are straight female players who liked Dorian as their gay friend and romanced Blackwall or loved playing a gay Inquisitor solely to romance Dorian, or replayed the game 10 times to experience every romance and compare them. I am not like them.
I really dislike to build my PC, the character that should be mine in order to meet someone's criteria for the romance and those criteria not being negotiable. Every time I started the game, I knew that the protagonist I've lovingly created was not the one I am playing. The game did not let me play a story I wanted to play. It told me my character was not good enough, because she is of a wrong gender. That I cannot play a Qunari that fell in love with a Tevinter Altus whom she met under the craziest of the circumstances and took a leap of faith with because she is a female.
I have never experienced a romance in a BioWARE game that made me go: "OMG, OMG, thanks goodness he is straight! It made me like him a lot better because someone else's male avatar can't romance him in their game!"
It's not like someone can talk me into liking what I dislike, because it's what they've liked.... this thread asked to vote in the poll, and express the preference, and I hope it's predicated on the premise that each opinion is equally valid, one player, one vote. I am comfortable with being in a minority to stay true to myself.
My vote, wholeheartedly, inambigously goes for all romances -fewer of them, and all of them plot important - to be opened to all player characters, i.e the DA2 approach. It's just waaaay more fun to play that way for me. I've played Bio games since 1999, and all of them had those gates, which was what I just accepted as a given because it was all I knew. DA2 showed to me just how much better it is when there is no gates, and I am not restricted in creating my Main at all, and it does not matter if I chose to play a male or a female, I can court every character. I will forever miss that as I sift through 10 romantic option and try to predict what character I will digitally fall in love with before playing the game so I don't mess up my Main's gender and race.
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Post by fylimar on Jul 27, 2017 16:34:39 GMT
I did choose set orientation. I have no problem if a character isn't available for everyone. I mean I deal with the dissapointment of Varric - my favorite character of all DA games - not being a romance option for two games now and I live . ANd since I'm pretty sure, Varric won't be a companion again in DA4, all other possible love interests are just substitutes anyway. In fact, I like the relationships in DAI the most (although there could have been more content). There was a healthy mix of straight, bi and gay charatcers - and the way, it was choosen who is what, makes sense to me. I guess, that whole topic depends on what you want from a fictional romance. I'm not a very romantic person myself, I just like the depth and opportunity for more and different content. In real life, I probably would not romance someone like Sera or Leliana or even Anders (too radical for my taste, although I find him attractive in DA2), but in the games it's fun. But someone more romantic might be more critical of their romances and want someone pleasing to their tastes. So I would not say, that one or the other way is better, depends solely on the player.
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Aug 12, 2017 19:30:52 GMT
I prefer set orientations in games like Dragon Age. In the Elder Scrolls, the playersexual works. The characters revolve around you in a way that they don't, and hopefully will never, in Dragon Age. If I could go back and change Dragon Age 2, I wouldn't, because that merry band of bisexuals and possibly straight, but not available characters worked, but I don't think it would continue working for the DA series. We already know that not every character in Thedas is bisexual, so continually happening to get a team together of all bisexual peoples feels like pandering too much to the player. And I know that it's a game, meant for our entertainment, but its characters and world are also meant to feel real, and how are they supposed to if the games would continually treat characters like dishes you can choose off of a buffet table. I mean, there are already complaints about characters not having agency in that you click the hearts to win your prize. With all that said, I think race-gating is stupid. Sexual preference is one thing, but racial preference rubs me the wrong way. Looking at it purely through a story perspective; characters like Cullen aren't willing to look past appearance enough to fall in love with a dwarf when said dwarf is the exact copy of the human that Cullen could love-- just a bit shorter. I sort of, maybe a little bit, get why Solas is race-gated, or am at least more understanding that he as a character would be less likely to view a non-elf as a potential romantic interest. Anywho, I think the suggestion that super plot relevant characters be bisexual is a good one. Although, that might be slightly spoiler-y if BioWare does it in every game and possibly send the wrong message. Origins: Morrigan and Alistair were the two bi characters. DA2: Isabela and Anders were the only bi love interests. Inquisition: Cassandra and Solas were the bi characters. *DA4 comes around* GUYS, DON'T TRUST THE BIs!!
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Post by lovelypumpkin on Aug 15, 2017 15:07:29 GMT
Oooh, I like these type of discussions.
Personally, I like a bit of both but for different type of games. In games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect, set orientations is preferable, but only because I like the realism of it and I like how each character can build their own rapport with the protagonist, without it being because of a romantic or sexual attraction. I also like that thought of being rejected by a character because they have set orientations - basically I like games to be as realistic as possible when it comes to these things, because every induvidial is different and not every individual is going to be head-over-heels in love with your protagonist for some inexplicable reason.
In games like Skyrim, for instance, it makes more sense of many of the NPCs/followers to be playersexual because Skyrim is on a massive scale with endless NPCs, but Skyrim still comes with exceptions. Dragon Age and Mass Effect you're limited to companions (exception being Andromeda) who obviously won't all feel the same way for their leader.
I hope this makes some sense.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 16:48:07 GMT
Oooh, I like these type of discussions.
Personally, I like a bit of both but for different type of games. In games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect, set orientations is preferable, but only because I like the realism of it and I like how each character can build their own rapport with the protagonist, without it being because of a romantic or sexual attraction. I also like that thought of being rejected by a character because they have set orientations - basically I like games to be as realistic as possible when it comes to these things, because every induvidial is different and not every individual is going to be head-over-heels in love with your protagonist for some inexplicable reason.
In games like Skyrim, for instance, it makes more sense of many of the NPCs/followers to be playersexual because Skyrim is on a massive scale with endless NPCs, but Skyrim still comes with exceptions. Dragon Age and Mass Effect you're limited to companions (exception being Andromeda) who obviously won't all feel the same way for their leader.
I hope this makes some sense. Why is Andromeda an exception? You can romance non-companions in Inquisition as well (and SWTOR for that matter). What is so explicable about rerolling the PC in a different gender with exactly the same personality, and now the companion with exactly the same personality is all of a sudden head over heels with him/her? What is so great about destroying the player's ideal story and enjoying a love story in a game? For the sake of what?
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Aug 16, 2017 1:12:55 GMT
Oooh, I like these type of discussions.
Personally, I like a bit of both but for different type of games. In games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect, set orientations is preferable, but only because I like the realism of it and I like how each character can build their own rapport with the protagonist, without it being because of a romantic or sexual attraction. I also like that thought of being rejected by a character because they have set orientations - basically I like games to be as realistic as possible when it comes to these things, because every induvidial is different and not every individual is going to be head-over-heels in love with your protagonist for some inexplicable reason.
In games like Skyrim, for instance, it makes more sense of many of the NPCs/followers to be playersexual because Skyrim is on a massive scale with endless NPCs, but Skyrim still comes with exceptions. Dragon Age and Mass Effect you're limited to companions (exception being Andromeda) who obviously won't all feel the same way for their leader.
I hope this makes some sense. Why is Andromeda an exception? You can romance non-companions in Inquisition as well (and SWTOR for that matter). What is so explicable about rerolling the PC in a different gender with exactly the same personality, and now the companion with exactly the same personality is all of a sudden head over heels with him/her? What is so great about destroying the player's ideal story and enjoying a love story in a game? For the sake of what? For the sake of immersion and character agency.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 11:24:11 GMT
Why is Andromeda an exception? You can romance non-companions in Inquisition as well (and SWTOR for that matter). What is so explicable about rerolling the PC in a different gender with exactly the same personality, and now the companion with exactly the same personality is all of a sudden head over heels with him/her? What is so great about destroying the player's ideal story and enjoying a love story in a game? For the sake of what? For the sake of immersion and character agency. It breaks the immersion for me because I lose the ability to play a character I want to play my story with if I want to experience the game with a love story. I now either have to play a protagonist that is not really mine, or settle on a second (or fifth, like in Inquisition) best romantic option, or play without a love story.
An NPC does not have an agency. The author does, and by gating the romance, the author breaks the cocreative aspect of the story, essentially dictating which gender and/or race the player can play if s/he wants The Romance. That takes a lot of advantages of a game with a flexible protagonist away, particularly for players like me who do not replay the game multiple times. If the romances are open to both genders, both the replaying guy benefits because s/he can chose another romance next time around, and someone who plays only once, because they can create the protagonist they like and decide which love story fits their character, who is the PC's soulmate. Otherwise, you have to headcanon, and at that point you paid for features of the game that you are not allowed to enjoy.
A game is also not a real world, where the choices are virtually unlimited, possibilities -endless, and the gates really floodlight the fifth wall, making the player argue with the author all the way through the game, endlessly frustrated that the content is there, but can't be accessed, because someone else arbitrarily decided that your protagonist is not good enough. In other words, you are continuously reminded about a piece of code that failed you on the gender or race check and that you could bypass if only you've created a different protagonist. It keeps telling you: you shouldda played a male (or an elf), dummy. It gives too much control to the developer in terms of who your protagonist can be and who s/he can have a relationship with. There is just something inherently wrong in someone deciding who is appropriate for a male or female avatar to like when it does not have to be.
In essence, yes, I love my character a lot, and, yes, it bugs me that s/he is rejected by the game via the romantic option.
Don't we play the video games to escape the limitations?
I dunno, sometimes I wish I had not played DA2, to have not have experienced the alternative to the gating. It chafes me now.
And, yes, after reading this thread, I feel grateful that Reyes is bi in Andromeda.
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Aug 16, 2017 22:46:11 GMT
For the sake of immersion and character agency. It breaks the immersion for me because I lose the ability to play a character I want to play my story with if I want to experience the game with a love story. I now either have to play a protagonist that is not really mine, or settle on a second (or fifth, like in Inquisition) best romantic option, or play without a love story.
An NPC does not have an agency. The author does, and by gating the romance, the author breaks the cocreative aspect of the story, essentially dictating which gender and/or race the player can play if s/he wants The Romance. That takes a lot of advantages of a game with a flexible protagonist away, particularly for players like me who do not replay the game multiple times. If the romances are open to both genders, both the replaying guy benefits because s/he can chose another romance next time around, and someone who plays only once, because they can create the protagonist they like and decide which love story fits their character, who is the PC's soulmate. Otherwise, you have to headcanon, and at that point you paid for features of the game that you are not allowed to enjoy.
A game is also not a real world, where the choices are virtually unlimited, possibilities -endless, and the gates really floodlight the fifth wall, making the player argue with the author all the way through the game, endlessly frustrated that the content is there, but can't be accessed, because someone else arbitrarily decided that your protagonist is not good enough. In other words, you are continuously reminded about a piece of code that failed you on the gender or race check and that you could bypass if only you've created a different protagonist. It keeps telling you: you shouldda played a male (or an elf), dummy. It gives too much control to the developer in terms of who your protagonist can be and who s/he can have a relationship with. There is just something inherently wrong in someone deciding who is appropriate for a male or female avatar to like when it does not have to be.
In essence, yes, I love my character a lot, and, yes, it bugs me that s/he is rejected by the game via the romantic option.
Don't we play the video games to escape the limitations?
I dunno, sometimes I wish I had not played DA2, to have not have experienced the alternative to the gating. It chafes me now.
And, yes, after reading this thread, I feel grateful that Reyes is bi in Andromeda. We play role-playing games to play at being something we're not. To play as someone we're not and do things we never could. Games will always have limitations. Your comment about paying for features in a game that you're not allowed to enjoy is nonsensical. You're allowed to enjoy the content. You are making the choice not to pursue that content in further playthroughs. That's like complaining that you can't play Champions of the Just since you decided to go with the mages. Champions of the Just is arguably the more enjoyable quest. If you limit yourself to one playthrough that does In Hushed Whispers then that is a limitation you're setting on yourself and not at all a fault of the developers. There is absolutely not something inherently wrong with a writer creating a character that has a specific sexual orientation. And I believe characters have agency. Or they should. There is such a thing as too much fan-service. It can take away from a character. You think DA2 is superior because you were allowed to romance anyone you wanted to, but what if you had your heart set on Aveline or Varric? There is always disappointment to be had for players when they have their hopes up for something they're not going to get. You have to think about what you do have instead. Origins was the first game I ever played where I could create a character and choose a character to romance. It was the first video game romance I experienced not playing as a straight male. I can see the trouble DA2 caused for you, but BioWare games are much more than their romances. They're plot heavy and character driven. And what worked for DA2, in my opinion, will not continue to work for future BioWare games.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 23:10:59 GMT
Champions of the Just and Whispers are available for me in the same game. Once I reached the decision point, I can go back to the older save and replay it. It does not matter what my protagonist is, I can always play one or another. I can make a perfect playthrough with ANY character in respect to this decision, the one that suits that character.
Now, if I could only play the Mages' Quest if my Class was a Mage, and only play the Templar's if I were a Warrior, and the Rogue had access to both, then the situation would have been similar to romance gates.
The romantic availability restricts the availability of the features. Either I cannot play a race or gender that is available, or I cannot access a romance. The content is there, it was produced, it was paid for, and I paid for the game. Why can't I enjoy ALL the features simultaneously?
I just don't understand it. I just don't understand it....
I have played BioWARE games since BG1, and DA2 was the best were it came to romances. The less artificial limitations there is, the better.
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Aug 16, 2017 23:14:38 GMT
Champions of the Just and Whispers are available for me in the same game. Once I reached the decision point, I can go back to the older save and replay it. It does not matter what my protagonist is, I can always play one or another.
Now, if I could only play the Mages' Quest if my Class was a Mage, and only play the Templar's if I were a Warrior, and the Rogue had access to both, then the situation would have been similar to romance gates. The romantic availability restricts the availability of the features. Either I cannot play a race or gender that is available, or I cannot access a romance. The content is there, it was produced, it was paid for, and I paid for the game. Why can't I enjoy ALL the features simultaneously? I just don't understand it. I just don't understand it.... I have played BioWARE games since BG1, and DA2 was the best were it came to romances. Well, I disagree with that and if the poll is any indication, so do most people.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 23:19:09 GMT
Champions of the Just and Whispers are available for me in the same game. Once I reached the decision point, I can go back to the older save and replay it. It does not matter what my protagonist is, I can always play one or another.
Now, if I could only play the Mages' Quest if my Class was a Mage, and only play the Templar's if I were a Warrior, and the Rogue had access to both, then the situation would have been similar to romance gates. The romantic availability restricts the availability of the features. Either I cannot play a race or gender that is available, or I cannot access a romance. The content is there, it was produced, it was paid for, and I paid for the game. Why can't I enjoy ALL the features simultaneously? I just don't understand it. I just don't understand it.... I have played BioWARE games since BG1, and DA2 was the best were it came to romances. Well, I disagree with that and if the poll is any indication, so do most people. I know, and that's why I commented that given the overwhelming desire for gender gating I am deeply grateful that Reyes is bi in Andromeda. I am okay with being in the minority, but most of the time I understand why I am in the minority. This time I simply have no comprehension of why. I do not understand the benefits of the gates, the appeal of extra limitations. I know I should stop engaging in this topic, it just makes me want to hit my head on the wall, lol.
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Post by NeverlandHunter on Aug 17, 2017 3:05:17 GMT
Well, I disagree with that and if the poll is any indication, so do most people. I know, and that's why I commented that given the overwhelming desire for gender gating I am deeply grateful that Reyes is bi in Andromeda. I am okay with being in the minority, but most of the time I understand why I am in the minority. This time I simply have no comprehension of why. I do not understand the benefits of the gates, the appeal of extra limitations. I know I should stop engaging in this topic, it just makes me want to hit my head on the wall, lol. You can't understand at all? Haha, I think you might be the wall in this scenario, Jade . I see why playersexual/all bisexual characters is appealing. I just think the set sexual orientation is superior for BioWare games. I don't know how else to frame the benefits of it to you or the cons of playersexual characters, for that matter. Regardless, hopefully the next game will have at least some of what you're looking for.
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Post by lovelypumpkin on Aug 18, 2017 2:44:01 GMT
Oooh, I like these type of discussions.
Personally, I like a bit of both but for different type of games. In games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect, set orientations is preferable, but only because I like the realism of it and I like how each character can build their own rapport with the protagonist, without it being because of a romantic or sexual attraction. I also like that thought of being rejected by a character because they have set orientations - basically I like games to be as realistic as possible when it comes to these things, because every induvidial is different and not every individual is going to be head-over-heels in love with your protagonist for some inexplicable reason.
In games like Skyrim, for instance, it makes more sense of many of the NPCs/followers to be playersexual because Skyrim is on a massive scale with endless NPCs, but Skyrim still comes with exceptions. Dragon Age and Mass Effect you're limited to companions (exception being Andromeda) who obviously won't all feel the same way for their leader.
I hope this makes some sense. Why is Andromeda an exception? You can romance non-companions in Inquisition as well (and SWTOR for that matter). What is so explicable about rerolling the PC in a different gender with exactly the same personality, and now the companion with exactly the same personality is all of a sudden head over heels with him/her? What is so great about destroying the player's ideal story and enjoying a love story in a game? For the sake of what? You mean in Inquisition where you can occasionally flirt and basically be let off without any promise of an actual romance with the NPCs? If you want to call that a romance, then good for you – but not enough for me. A romance in a game needs to be pretty consistent and not just with a bit of banter that seems flirty but you’re still unsure if it’ll progress to something more involved (see Scout Harding for example). Flirting and romancing are two completely different things, in real life and in fiction. I flirt with guys all of the time in real life but I’m not involved with them romantically.
Also not having every character available for a romance to you is what makes it realistic to me. Nobody said you had to agree and you don’t have to like my views. I don’t see how it destroys any player’s ideal story unless you’re obsessing over the romance and wanting everyone to be open to the protagonist which is terribly unrealistic – but I suppose not everyone enjoys realism in such games, because they are fiction. If you prefer something different, then great, but honestly don't take it to heart just because myself, as well as many others, prefer it a different way. I wish I could romance Dorian as a female character, because I like to play as a female because I am female and that's just how it is for me, but I'm not going to get bent out of shape just because he's a gay character and it allows for more immersion for me. Goodness gracious.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 12:24:13 GMT
I've meant out of party romances with Cullen and Josephine in Inquisition. They are not joinable companions. I've never flirted with Harding, can't say I remember seeing the flirt options, but enjoyed the more involved side romances in SWTOR. Reyes' is slightly longer version of those (or at least he shows up in the end). I am not big on romantic cutscenes showing the romance consummation and marriages, so persistent flirting (preferably witty) in the course of interesting quests for the duration of the game is in fact my preference for a game romance.
anyway, I'll just try to enjoy being different, and hope that I'll get lucky in future games.
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Post by Gilli on Aug 18, 2017 14:17:02 GMT
I voted set sexualities, because it gives the charas more life. I loved how DAI did it and and as much as I like DA2, it makes me sad that I have no real reason to play as male Hawke. I love playing male charas, as I can much better RP that way. To go a bit more into detail: DAO:So far I have two finished and one started PT. 1st PT: fem!Dalish rogue romanced Alistair, he broke up with her because I did not harden him. While I was sad, I was okay with it and it suited Alistair to go that way. <-- I did not know you could even harden him until after I finished my first PT. 2nd PT: male!elven circle mage romanced Morrigan, so he could be Kieran's dad. <-- She once accused him of cheating on her "with the elf" so had to break up a non existing romance with Zevran. 3rd PT: male!city elf archer is supposed to romance Zevran when they finally meet. Might make a male!human noble for Leliana, but it's not 100% decided yet. DA2:Two finished PTs. 1st PT: Diplomatic rogue fem!Hawke romanced Anders. 2nd PT: Sarcastic mage fem!Hawke romanced Merrill. I have no idea with who* I should romance Izzy and Fenris, except that I know that I want to romance Izzy with a sarcastic fem!!Hawke. *most of the times I already have names for the charas I want to play, not here as I've used my first name for my first Hawke and my middle name for my second Hawke (I look like default fem!Hawke, so there's that )DAI:Four finished PTs and three started PTs. 1st PT: fem!Qunari Necro who was supposed to romance Bull, she did not like him, so she flirted a bit with Cullen. Then she met Josie and fell head over heels with her. 2nd PT: male!Elf Rift Mage who was supposed to romance Dorian. He flirted with Dorian all the time, then Cass complimented him in Haven and he fell in love with her. (Cass does suit him better, but still, it was not planned, it just happened because my Inquisitors have their own heads) 3rd PT: fem!Elf DW Tempest who romanced Solas. <-- I was so tempted to romance Cullen instead, but at least this time I managed to stick to my plan. 4th PT: male!Dwarf archer who was made for the Trial of the Fool and Trial of the Lovers achievements. I did not expect to like him so much, but because I did I've planned to restart him (sadly I lost his first save ) and then he'll flirt with Harding. 5th PT: male!Human Reaver who romanced Dorian. <-- this is by far my favorite Inquisitor and that not just because he romances Dorian, but also because he's less of a goody two shoes like my other Inquisitors. 6th PT: fem!Elf KE who romances Cullen. 7th PT: fem!Dwarf Templar who romances Blackwall (or at least she is planned to romance Blackwall, as I am so tempted to romance Sera instead, their interactions are just so great ) What I'm trying to say is that while I may plan a romance "This chara is made to romance X, this one to romance Y" it does not always go that way in the PT, because a) my Inquisitors have their own heads and the LIs have their own heads too.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 15:28:52 GMT
Heh, I played DA2 with male Hawke, because I did not like the voice, faces and outfits for the female one, but the male is awesome imo. But I still could romance Anders, so YAY! That moment I realized it, was the moment I loved the idea so much. Have your cake & eat it too... aww.... just one of the best moments in my gaming, period. Glorious. So glorious. I guess, I will forever remeber DA2 fondly for experiencing that revelation.
Maybe I am also impacted by an overall remorse over purchasing Inquisition.
Gilli you either used mod, or made a typo in DAO description, as Alistair does not romance males iirc.
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Post by Gilli on Aug 18, 2017 16:21:51 GMT
Heh, I played DA2 with male Hawke, because I did not like the voice, faces and outfits for the female one, but the male is awesome imo. But I still could romance Anders, so YAY! That moment I realized it, was the moment I loved the idea so much. Have your cake & eat it too... aww.... just one of the best moments in my gaming, period. Glorious. So glorious. I guess, I will forever remeber DA2 fondly for experiencing that revelation.
Maybe I am also impacted by an overall remorse over purchasing Inquisition.
Gilli you either used mod, or made a typo in DAO description, as Alistair does not romance males iirc. Typo, I'd never use a mod to change the sexuality of a character. I thought I caught them all. Reason I don't really want to play male!Hawke is that I have to play DA2 in german. And in german they re-used Zevran's DAO Voice Actor for male Hawke. So all I'm hearing is Zevran talking with a slightly deeper voice and it just feels weird.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 16:26:08 GMT
Heh, I played DA2 with male Hawke, because I did not like the voice, faces and outfits for the female one, but the male is awesome imo. But I still could romance Anders, so YAY! That moment I realized it, was the moment I loved the idea so much. Have your cake & eat it too... aww.... just one of the best moments in my gaming, period. Glorious. So glorious. I guess, I will forever remeber DA2 fondly for experiencing that revelation.
Maybe I am also impacted by an overall remorse over purchasing Inquisition.
Gilli you either used mod, or made a typo in DAO description, as Alistair does not romance males iirc. Typo. I thought I caught them all. Reason I don't really want to play male!Hawke is that I have to play DA2 in german. And in german they re-used Zevran's DAO Voice Actor for male Hawke. So all I'm hearing is Zevran talking with a slightly deeper voice and it just feels weird. But because all romances are opened to both genders, you can pursue every romance in the game with the F!Hawke whose voice you like. So... your reaction to it is the exact opposite of mine, lol. I am over the moon that I can do it.
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Post by Gilli on Aug 18, 2017 16:34:40 GMT
Typo. I thought I caught them all. Reason I don't really want to play male!Hawke is that I have to play DA2 in german. And in german they re-used Zevran's DAO Voice Actor for male Hawke. So all I'm hearing is Zevran talking with a slightly deeper voice and it just feels weird. But because all romances are opened to both genders, you can pursue every romance in the game with the F!Hawke whose voice you like. So... your reaction to it is the exact opposite of mine, lol. I am over the moon that I can do it. Yes, but I do not want to have four female Hawkes, that is boring. I want to have at least one male Hawke, even if I'm not really happy with his voice. (I like his voice, he has a great voice, it's just that he was Zevran first) I actually love that: Cassandra told one of my fem charas that she likes her, but only as a friend <-- all my charas flirt with her, just because I love her reactions when you do Cullen told my male elf and my female Qunari that, while he's flattered, he's not into men/Qunari.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 16:47:12 GMT
So... play a male Hawke then? I did play a female Hawke, despite disliking her voice to see her in action. I guess, I have a strong drive to play exactly what I want to play & don't like the additional considerations that point me the other way, when I suppose, you actually like a bit of a push towards a specific gender or race of the protagonist?
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