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Post by shechinah on Jun 7, 2017 23:08:04 GMT
I've heard someone argue at another time/thread that to keep dwarven slaves would alienate the Dwarven Merchant presences there in Tevinter. I'd disagree with that: I could see dwarven slaves very easily. There's likely to still be poor and destitute dwarves that'd sell themselves into "indentured servitude" to survive. Logically, not every dwarf in Tevinter would be a noble, wealthy or with title. There'd be other surface dwarves that would be none of those things: commoners and poor. Servants and workers of other professions. Not to mention surface dwarves that immigrate from elsewhere to Tevinter. Slavers in Tevinter might be very cautious about the pedigree of the dwarf that they slap collars on to avoid treading on toes or stirring up a scandal but I don't see why, barring individuals, dwarves of high status in Tevinter would care more about the lowest of their fellows simply because they share the same race. Once again, I can see slavers be very careful about whi they pick and prey upon but I don't think there'd be a law against slavery involving dwarves. It might be worded nicer such as by "indentured servitude" but I see no reason why it wouldn't exist.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jun 7, 2017 23:11:09 GMT
Well, all races become slaves in Tevinter: elf, human, dwarf and qunari. I've heard someone argue at another time/thread that to keep dwarven slaves would alienate the Dwarven Merchant presences there in Tevinter. I really doubt it. Keep in mind that not all slaves are pressed into service; some of them actually sell themselves into slavery in order to pay off debts or secure a better life for their loved ones. And dwarves accumulate those things just like everyone else. Also, I can't really see Orzammar dwarves having an issue with slavery itself. I mean, what are golems if not slaves? Orzammar likely doesn't allow it as a matter of practicality, since Ferelden and Orlais have both banned it. EDIT: Ninja'd.
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Post by phoray on Jun 7, 2017 23:18:45 GMT
I've heard someone argue at another time/thread that to keep dwarven slaves would alienate the Dwarven Merchant presences there in Tevinter. I'd disagree with that: I could see dwarven slaves very easily. There's likely to still be poor and destitute dwarves that'd sell themselves into "indentured servitude" to survive. Logically, not every dwarf in Tevinter would be a noble, wealthy or with title. There'd be other surface dwarves that would be none of those things: commoners and poor. Servants and workers of other professions. Not to mention surface dwarves that immigrate from elsewhere to Tevinter. Slavers in Tevinter might be very cautious about the pedigree of the dwarf that they slap collars on to avoid treading on toes or stirring up a scandal but I don't see why, barring individuals, dwarves of high status in Tevinter would care more about the lowest of their fellows simply because they share the same race. Once again, I can see slavers be very careful about whi they pick and prey upon but I don't think there'd be a law against slavery involving dwarves. It might be worded nicer such as by "indentured servitude" but I see no reason why it wouldn't exist. Aren't these the same dwarfs who claim they will be nothing like the Orzamaar dwarves who abandoned them hundreds of years before? Aren't these the same dwarves that left a note in DAI stating, "We always come for our own." ? We can't assume they even continue to still have a casteless system.
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Post by Lazarillo on Jun 7, 2017 23:19:49 GMT
Also, I can't really see Orzammar dwarves having an issue with slavery itself. I mean, what are golems if not slaves? Orzammar likely doesn't allow it as a matter of practicality, since Ferelden and Orlais have both banned it. To be fair, Orzammar didn't know Golems were effectively slaves until the events of DA:O, although by the time DA4 rolls around, we're looking at, what, at least 13 years since then, I suppose (and that assumes only 1 year between Trespasser and DA4...though part of me would like it put a little further in the future than that, even).
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Post by thats1evildude on Jun 7, 2017 23:22:14 GMT
I'd disagree with that: I could see dwarven slaves very easily. There's likely to still be poor and destitute dwarves that'd sell themselves into "indentured servitude" to survive. Logically, not every dwarf in Tevinter would be a noble, wealthy or with title. There'd be other surface dwarves that would be none of those things: commoners and poor. Servants and workers of other professions. Not to mention surface dwarves that immigrate from elsewhere to Tevinter. Slavers in Tevinter might be very cautious about the pedigree of the dwarf that they slap collars on to avoid treading on toes or stirring up a scandal but I don't see why, barring individuals, dwarves of high status in Tevinter would care more about the lowest of their fellows simply because they share the same race. Once again, I can see slavers be very careful about whi they pick and prey upon but I don't think there'd be a law against slavery involving dwarves. It might be worded nicer such as by "indentured servitude" but I see no reason why it wouldn't exist. Aren't these the same dwarfs who claim they will be nothing like the Orzamaar dwarves who abandoned them hundreds of years before? Aren't these the same dwarves that left a note in DAI stating, "We always come for our own." ? We can't assume they even continue to still have a casteless system. You're thinking of Kal-Sharok. The dwarves of Tevinter are the emissaries of Orzammar and share many of their customs.
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Post by shechinah on Jun 7, 2017 23:23:00 GMT
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Post by phoray on Jun 7, 2017 23:45:01 GMT
Aren't these the same dwarfs who claim they will be nothing like the Orzamaar dwarves who abandoned them hundreds of years before? Aren't these the same dwarves that left a note in DAI stating, "We always come for our own." ? We can't assume they even continue to still have a casteless system. You're thinking of Kal-Sharok. The dwarves of Tevinter are the emissaries of Orzammar and share many of their customs. Although I stand corrected on which dwarves we're talking about, I am still right about the anti slave thing. Found: here on DA Wiki
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Post by zanephiri on Jun 8, 2017 0:08:08 GMT
I'm so excited to see where the story goes in da4! Obviously some things are pretty much set in stone, like going to Tevinter and seeing rising tensions there with the Qun, others are really likely, like seeing Dorian come back, having Solas in the game in some form (personally I want him to be the main antagonist but I could see them just having him as a secondary threat).
I hope we get to be the Inquisitor again, just because Trespasser set this up as a personal fight to the Inquisitor (I mean the world as it is is threatened by the Inquisitor's friend/ the ally who betrayed them/ lover), I think it would have more emotional weight to fight as the Inquisitor. (Unlikely I know and I know a lot of people don't even want that, but I personally would love it.)
I would really love it if this game sets the stakes really high and we get to recruit old companions from the previous games to fight it. Just because it would feel like all of Thedas' heroes uniting for one huge battle.
And besides the obvious places we will probably visit, I also want to see how the world was before the veil went up. (But I get that's unlikely.)
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Jun 8, 2017 0:08:34 GMT
I think if we ever deal with Titans as an actual villain rather than huge natural forces reacting to events in the world then it would probably be just the one thats pumping out blighted red lyrium blood. We'll probably come back around to Titans next time we get stuck into the blight as a plotline.
Hmmm, maybe another titan/titans could send us off to purify the corrupted one and/or the corrupted ones corpse. I'm not sure if the Red Titan is actually still alive or not, for all we know the blight is the result of having a dead titan.
Oh, I would love if we ever got a game that was focused on the deeproads, like playing a dwarf part of a squad/army whose reclaiming lost thaigs from the darkspawn and as you explore you discover things like an old god prison and a titan and launch a story surrounding them. I think Descent showed they could make a deeproads game environment varied and beautiful.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Jun 8, 2017 0:56:02 GMT
I'm not sure whether Solas is going to be the antagonist of DA4 or of DA5 with him quietly working his machinations in the background of DA4 (though for momentum it might be better if its DA4)
But I sincerely hope that not all the elves are either Qunari spies of Fen'harel spies. Trespasser's epilogue indicated large amounts of elves buggering of to join Solas, I want there to be groups of elves doing there own thing, not interested in joining up. Give me a Dalish clan who went 'you want me to join up with who? Hell no'. Tevinter slaves working on a rebellion of their own volition, not to help solas etc.
Velanna would be a good choice for that. Plus I'd like to see her again, running a clan focused on creating their own new traditions/stories, rather than reclaiming old ones, like the Blank Journal gift conversation indicated.
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Post by Lazarillo on Jun 8, 2017 1:15:34 GMT
I really am hoping Solas isn't the main antagonist of any future games. I'm already kind of bored with him as the villain, and I enjoy the impression I already have of him that, for all his bravado, he's not nearly as powerful or clever as he lets on...being heavy on bluster is appropriate for a god of deceit anyway. Hopefully he'll be dealt with in DA4 so we can move on, but hopefully DA4 won't be focused on him. Fewer things would be more disappointing than waiting 6 years for a new game, and finding out it's really just more of the old one.
Of course, Inquisition already set precedent for resolving the previous game's cliffhanger in short order, and then focusing on a mostly different loose plot thread from a DLC, so it's not like it's impossible that I'll get what I want...but I'm afraid that with Weekes as leader writer, he might be a little to proud of his character to relegate him to a support role going forward.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jun 8, 2017 17:41:35 GMT
You're thinking of Kal-Sharok. The dwarves of Tevinter are the emissaries of Orzammar and share many of their customs. Although I stand corrected on which dwarves we're talking about, I am still right about the anti slave thing. Found: here on DA WikiI don't know where the Wiki is getting that from. I re-read the sections on Tevinter and slavery in WoT Vol. 1 last night and found nothing about a prohibition against dwarven slaves.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 8, 2017 19:31:18 GMT
Give the Dalish their due, their Elders condemned Zathrian's action as a crime against nature, so I would agree that it would be hypocritical of Solas if he didn't condemn it considering how he feels about spirits. However, werewolves are an integral part of Ferelden lore without the connection with Zathrian. May be there is some link between the barbarians and the elves involving wolf men. Considering an elven lament about the results of Fen'Harel's victory even though it gave them their freedom also ended up as the basis for an Alamarri war poem that later became a Denerim lullaby, I would say the link is pretty strong.
I think the story of Dane is particularly interesting. He is said to have been stalking a rare white hart (halla?) but when he caught and killed it a werewolf appeared to claim tribute for its death as it occurred on its patch. Then Dane was forced to exchange bodies with the werewolf for a year and a day, living with the pack while the werewolf live among men as Dane. Even if it didn't involve Fen'Harel it certainly suggests some sort of spirit confronting him. Apparently Dane survived this encounter because he went on to father Hafter. Or was that the spirit pretending to be Dane?
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Post by Walter Black on Jun 8, 2017 23:01:50 GMT
Speculation isn't just about wishlists, but also fears and expectations. Here a few of mine:
General Tone
What I hope: Since Dragon Age 4 is going to Tevinter, the series will return to it's adult, dark fantasy roots. Complex and flawed cultures and characters, horror and lore, adventure and mystery with no easy answers.
What I fear: Pressure from EA for more mass appeal, not to mention writers satisfied in their comfort zones, will further dumb down the series.
What I expect: DA will still be M rated, but a safe M. There will be anti-heroes and anti-villains, but most will still be able to tell which is which.
The Protagonist
What I hope: A newly risen slave of the Archon, the player will not have the same autonomy as previous DA heroes, fighting a shadow with Solas (or maybe later the Evanaris) behind the scenes. The player will have control of the Inquisitor for brief missions in between arcs. Near the end, the new PC can agree or disagree with Inky on how to handle the Dread Wolf. If you disagree, the game gives you the option of who you want to play for the rest of the game, and initiates the opposing boss battle.
What I fear: If a new protagonist, another damn Bioware Chosen One, more than likely to be the Inquisitor's protégé (re: sidekick). If the Inquisitor, the player gets a new magic hand with no negative side effects.
What I expect: Dual protagonists, but the new PC probably won't be able to oppose the Inquisitor, at least in any meaningful way.
Player agency
What I hope: Players will have complete control over their character with a variety of options; good, evil, selfish/neutral, trickster, ordinary person in way over their heads, and anything in between. However, the player will NOT be God Mode Sue; other characters and factions have their own personalities and agendas that will not simply bend over just because the player wills it. The player will have to work for their influence, and even then they will have difficult choices that demand sacrifice. It's easy to be the hero when the game hands you the world, but can you still be good when there are no easy options?
What I fear: Unwilling to challenge or upset players, DA4 will allow them wave away thousands of years of culture, NPC desires, internal reality and simple logic just so that the PC can have their Mega Happy Ending. Also, forget about any actual role playing in a Role Playing Game, we're going to be railroaded into being heroes whether we like it or not.
What I expect: The game will offer moral dilemmas, but the writers will make it painfully obvious which path are the "correct" ones. As for RP options, Jerk With A Heart of Gold? Sure. Ambitious and pragmatic? Maybe... But being able to play an actually evil character in a Bioware game again? I haven't seen anything of late showing me that the current Bioware has the artistic integrity, respect for it's fans, or sheer balls for that anymore.
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Post by Walter Black on Jun 8, 2017 23:38:25 GMT
Continued... CompanionsWhat I hope: On the surface, most Companions in DA games take traditionally heroic archetypes and subvert them; the Chosen One, the Knight in Shining Armor, the wise Mentor, the Plucky Rogue and so on. There are obvious exceptions, but generally these characters are revealed to have more nuance, deep flaws and dark pasts. For DA4, I hope our new team gives nuance and possible lighter pasts to traditionally villainous archetypes; the Black Knight, the Zealous High Priest, the Psychotic Gladiator, the Radical Revolutionary, the Decadent Noble, etcetera. If Tevinter is, on the surface, the stereotypical fantasy Evil Empire, let our Companions reflect that and develop from there. What I fear: Instead of taking full advantage of the Imperium's darkness, DA4 Companions will be only slight tweeks on what we've seen before, but still mostly heroic. Bonus points for staying good in one of the most chaotic and cutthroat cultures in all Thedas . What I expect: Some Companions will evoke evil imagery while subverting it, some will not. Some Companions personal arcs will allow for divergence, some will remain who they are. For better or worse. ..
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Post by ninjanightngale on Jun 9, 2017 0:52:30 GMT
A fun/horrible idea occurred to me a while ago. What if, to bulk up the strength of his supporters, Solas started turning them into werewolves? Now that you mention it.... How did we not see this!!??!? I LOL'd for real when i saw this; the EXACT SAME image was in my head. I die.
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Post by ninjanightngale on Jun 9, 2017 0:55:49 GMT
Although I stand corrected on which dwarves we're talking about, I am still right about the anti slave thing. Found: here on DA WikiI don't know where the Wiki is getting that from. I re-read the sections on Tevinter and slavery in WoT Vol. 1 last night and found nothing about a prohibition against dwarven slaves. I'm still relatively new to following the lore here; but, what about the casteless dwarves? Since they wouldn't be part of the mining cast, and are destitute in Dust Town, would they be willing to sell themselves into slavery? or is being a surface dwarf even worse?
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Post by themikefest on Jun 9, 2017 1:30:27 GMT
speculation?
- DA4 will be released 2019 - Flemeth will have a cameo - a fade quest that is much longer than the one in DAO - the player will learn that Meredith had twin sister separated at birth who be a companion - Flemeths armor that she wears in DA2/DAI will be available for the main character to wear - Inquisitor will be the main character. Only because I like to hear AWR's voice. - the game will start at Skyhold and ends in Tevinter - Bioware will call themikefest to voice the male human companion - there will be 6 companions - long hair for the main character - a death of a major character from a previous game. This will be unavoidable - a new type of demon will be introduced - Solas will die by his own hand - the level cap will be 50 - the ending will leave a clue about DA5 - curly hair will be an option
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 7:27:22 GMT
speculation? - DA4 will be released 2019 - Flemeth will have a cameo - a fade quest that is much longer than the one in DAO - the player will learn that Meredith had twin sister separated at birth who be a companion - Flemeths armor that she wears in DA2/DAI will be available for the main character to wear - Inquisitor will be the main character. Only because I like to hear AWR's voice. - the game will start at Skyhold and ends in Tevinter - Bioware will call themikefest to voice the male human companion - there will be 6 companions - long hair for the main character - a death of a major character from a previous game. This will be unavoidable - a new type of demon will be introduced - Solas will die by his own hand - the level cap will be 50 - the ending will leave a clue about DA5 - curly hair will be an option Hah long hair option! Keep dreaming
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Post by lucidae on Jun 9, 2017 16:00:55 GMT
I think we will see the griffins and possibly ride them in the last half of the game.
We will have 9-12 recruitable companions.
Fenris will at least be in a major side quest.
We will only be able to play as elf or human.
We will be recruited to stop Solas through Harding (harding will be first dwarf romance option)
We will see Abelas or felassan again.
We will see Dorian a lot.
We will play as our inquisitor in specific critical story cutscenes.
Our companions will have their own mounts.
We will go to weisshaupt.
Blood mage specialization will come back.
We will be allowed to make more questionable choices and stand in more grey territory, more like in DAO.
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Post by Rascoth on Jun 9, 2017 17:53:10 GMT
I don't know where the Wiki is getting that from. I re-read the sections on Tevinter and slavery in WoT Vol. 1 last night and found nothing about a prohibition against dwarven slaves. I'm still relatively new to following the lore here; but, what about the casteless dwarves? Since they wouldn't be part of the mining cast, and are destitute in Dust Town, would they be willing to sell themselves into slavery? or is being a surface dwarf even worse? Well, you could say surfacers are also casteless. I don't think Orzammar casteless would sell themselves. They'd sooner try their luck with normal life on the surface. Plus, doubt they're even aware of this possibility.
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 9, 2017 17:54:47 GMT
Another opportunity for me to post my dual protagonist theory? Yay!
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Post by phoray on Jun 9, 2017 18:24:28 GMT
thats1evildudeRascothSo, initially I thought it was Kal Sharok that traded with Tevinter. Then I get corrected that it is, in fact, Orzamaar. but how the hell are they managing this? WE've been to Orzamaar and the only entrance to the Deep Roads is guarded. And all the roads we traverse and thaigs we encounter are abandoned to the Darkspawn. The Deep Roads map we see are under the Frostback Mountains and about half or all of Orlais. Which made me think, all along, that Orzamaar was cut off from everyone and really did depend on the surface dwarves to bring in trade goods while spitting on them when it otherwise suited them. But apparently they have a very lucrative trade for all the Lyrium they mine (where are these mines?) to Tevinter via the below ground Ambassadoriship located there that I thought was Kal Sharok. So, somehow, there is enough cleared out safe Deep Roads ALL THE WAY TO TEVINTER. Uh, what?
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Post by ninjanightngale on Jun 9, 2017 18:27:03 GMT
speculation? - DA4 will be released 2019 - Flemeth will have a cameo - a fade quest that is much longer than the one in DAO - the player will learn that Meredith had twin sister separated at birth who be a companion - Flemeths armor that she wears in DA2/DAI will be available for the main character to wear - Inquisitor will be the main character. Only because I like to hear AWR's voice. - the game will start at Skyhold and ends in Tevinter - Bioware will call themikefest to voice the male human companion - there will be 6 companions - long hair for the main character - a death of a major character from a previous game. This will be unavoidable - a new type of demon will be introduced - Solas will die by his own hand - the level cap will be 50 - the ending will leave a clue about DA5 - curly hair will be an option hahahah! yes long hair for the main character! And Flemeth's armor. Please??
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 9, 2017 18:36:15 GMT
I must admit I never understood the claim that Tevinter would not have dwarven slaves for fear of antagonising the Ambassadoria and I would like to know where the Wiki got their information from. The dwarves of Orzammar actually brand their castles so they can never be anything else (shades of the Evanuris marking their slaves?), so why would they be offended if these dwarves ended up being used as slaves by Tevinter? Surface dwarves are also castles and whilst some make a good living for themselves as merchants, etc, there are going to be others who struggle to survive. Whether selling themselves into slavery or simply being preyed on by slavers, why wouldn't they be found in the slave markets of Tevinter?
I'd also point out that when we wake up Corypheus in Legacy, among his other ramblings he asks whether we are slaves of the dwarves? So dwarves clearly had slaves in his time and since at least one member of our party could be a dwarf then presumably it was possible for them to enslave their own.
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