TheodoricFriede
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 19, 2018 21:13:14 GMT
I think Hawke will show up, alive, regardless of the events of DA:I. When questioned you'll get a response that's something to the effects of "Ah! Funny story! You see-- *Something explodes behinds them* Oh hey look at that!"
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 21, 2018 16:34:25 GMT
I think Hawke will show up, alive, regardless of the events of DA:I. When questioned you'll get a response that's something to the effects of "Ah! Funny story! You see-- *Something explodes behinds them* Oh hey look at that!" I hope not. They ruined Hawke enough in DAI.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 21, 2018 17:32:01 GMT
Hawke will show up in the next game as will the Inquisitor
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 21, 2018 20:16:15 GMT
I bet we'll get a Fog Warrior companion. Fenris (well, and Danarius) were on Seheron repping the 'Vints, Bull was there as a Qunari, now all we need is a native perspective.... someone who fukkin hates Tevinter and the Qunari and the rampaging Tal-Vashoth rebels.
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TheodoricFriede
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 21, 2018 21:04:27 GMT
I am guessing that much of the games secondary plot will be related to have to choose between Tevinter and the Qunari, and having to accept that they both are incredibly flawed.
Tevinter promotes the slave trade, Qunari are a militant, expansionist religion.
Slavery sucks, so you side with the qunari. Well, what happens to all those mages? Because they certainly dont get to chose their own path under the qun.
Tevinter is the weaker force. You can push back the qunari, but you may have to use some human sacrifices to do it. Is that acceptable when the qunari attack with nerve gas?
Stuff like that.
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Raga
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Post by Raga on Feb 22, 2018 15:22:26 GMT
I am replaying DAOA at the moment and was just thinking that Velanna, assuming she's not dead, is a pretty prime sort of Fen'Harel impending elf rebellion recruit. Inasmuch as that means I might get to fireball her face, I'm good with this.
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TheodoricFriede
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 22, 2018 22:45:19 GMT
I am replaying DAOA at the moment and was just thinking that Velanna, assuming she's not dead, is a pretty prime sort of Fen'Harel impending elf rebellion recruit. Inasmuch as that means I might get to fireball her face, I'm good with this. Perhaps, but I think if Solas is looking for recruits, the Dalish would be less likely to side with a man that is basically "the devil" in their pantheon than the elves living in the alienages. That said Velanna is not exactly the most stable of individuals.
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Post by phoray on Feb 23, 2018 0:25:45 GMT
Velanna is totally dead in the Dark Roads from looking for her crazy-as-fuq sister there.
Because her Loyalty quest is bugged.
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TheodoricFriede
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 23, 2018 0:35:57 GMT
Velanna is totally dead in the Dark Roads from looking for her crazy-as-fuq sister there. Because her Loyalty quest is bugged. Shes one of the most hated characters they have ever made, so I doubt we will see her again. Certainly not in a particularly good light. They can't even Jacob her, because she isn't a romance option.
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Post by phoray on Feb 23, 2018 0:42:25 GMT
Shes one of the most hated characters they have ever made, so I doubt we will see her again. Certainly not in a particularly good light. They almost made her be the one that hosted Justice. But the Anger of the Dalish didn't match their Mage/Templar Focus well enough so they switched to Anders.
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TheodoricFriede
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 23, 2018 0:46:10 GMT
They almost made her be the one that hosted Justice. But the Anger of the Dalish didn't match their Mage/Templar Focus well enough so they switched to Anders. I've heard that, but I get the feeling that was suuuuper early conceptually. Because Dragon Age 2 was well into development when Awakening was finally released. Fine by me, because I'm pretty sure she would have replaced Merrill, and that wouldn't be a good thing at all.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 23, 2018 0:48:07 GMT
I've been thinking about something Solas says in a banter with Bull and how that relates to his ambitions. He wants to bring down the Veil, restore the world to the way it was. For context, they're arguing about the Qun, which Solas says "would crush the brilliant few for the mediocre many!"
Likewise Morrigan has a similar line: "We must stem the tide, or be left with nothing more than the mundane."
(For the record, I haaaate this special snowflake obsession with mages and magic being ~so much better~ but ofc it fits with the characters. That's the world that Solas knew, and one he inadvertently destroyed. Morrigan has always been interested in preserving ancient magic for the sake of it.)
I don't even know where I'm going with this except to say that these lines make me cringe. And I think this mage superiority attitude is relevant to whatever's going to happen in the next game.
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TheodoricFriede
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 23, 2018 0:52:02 GMT
To be fair, if you could turn into a cloud of bee's whenever you wanted, or freeze your own popsicle's by thinking about it, you'd be feeling pretty superior too.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 23, 2018 1:02:15 GMT
To be fair, if you could turn into a cloud of bee's whenever you wanted, or freeze your own popsicle's by thinking about it, you'd be feeling pretty superior too. I wouldn't. :sure:
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Raga
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Post by Raga on Feb 23, 2018 1:24:06 GMT
I've been thinking about something Solas says in a banter with Bull and how that relates to his ambitions. He wants to bring down the Veil, restore the world to the way it was. For context, they're arguing about the Qun, which Solas says "would crush the brilliant few for the mediocre many!"Likewise Morrigan has a similar line: "We must stem the tide, or be left with nothing more than the mundane."(For the record, I haaaate this special snowflake obsession with mages and magic being ~so much better~ but ofc it fits with the characters. That's the world that Solas knew, and one he inadvertently destroyed. Morrigan has always been interested in preserving ancient magic for the sake of it.) I don't even know where I'm going with this except to say that these lines make me cringe. And I think this mage superiority attitude is relevant to whatever's going to happen in the next game. I can actually sympathize with this attitude a bit because I don't think they just mean literally "mages" but general magical, powerful, ancient, fading things. Particularly Morrigan with her spiel about preserving schools of magic outside of what the Circle teaches, her and Flemeth's interest in the Old God Baby, and also extending that out to Yavanna the whole focus on dragons and the Silent Grove. So they don't just mean mages: they mean dragons and spirits and lyrium and titans and all of it. Granted it's also true that they feel vastly superior and smug about it all, because of course they understand and appreciate such things and the rest of the humdrum plebs around them don't so they are still insufferable.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 23, 2018 1:41:19 GMT
Raga FWIW I meant that stuff too. I was using magic as more of an umbrella term, encompassing all the magical, spirit-y, titan-y... mystical stuff. My frustration is with their perspective - one that's understandable given their backgrounds, but one I despise nonetheless - the idea that magic is better. But I'm a filthy pleb so what do I know, eh Solas and Morrigan? It's like.... I'm fine with "magic is beautiful and so it should be celebrated!" But I'm disgusted by "magic is superior and so it should be celebrated!"
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 23, 2018 2:32:56 GMT
I've been thinking about something Solas says in a banter with Bull and how that relates to his ambitions. He wants to bring down the Veil, restore the world to the way it was. For context, they're arguing about the Qun, which Solas says "would crush the brilliant few for the mediocre many!"Likewise Morrigan has a similar line: "We must stem the tide, or be left with nothing more than the mundane."(For the record, I haaaate this special snowflake obsession with mages and magic being ~so much better~ but ofc it fits with the characters. That's the world that Solas knew, and one he inadvertently destroyed. Morrigan has always been interested in preserving ancient magic for the sake of it.) I don't even know where I'm going with this except to say that these lines make me cringe. And I think this mage superiority attitude is relevant to whatever's going to happen in the next game. I don't read it as 'mage superiority' - I read it more as 'if we don't stem the tide, we will lose part of the world'. Don't forget that Morrigan didn't portray magic from position of it being superior - she said it's being crushed, like elves, spirits and dragons, because they're not well understood or refused to be understood. They're part of nature, yet they are not treated that way and are - wittingly or unwittingly - exterminated. This is not position of superiority, but vulnerability. Magic and magical creatures may yet become extinct, like our natural environment that we quash while our civilization expands, sometimes with little understanding, because we fear things or want to control them. Ironically, that's a bit like science and scientific denialism - instead of accepting the world as it is, it is refused, thus inviting imbalance to the system (exacerbating what the Veil did already) and potentially spelling our doom. So yes - I do think the point of crushing magic will be relevant in the future. But I don't think it'd be something to be ultimately viewed from point of it being superior - there's an environmentalist, holistic message buried underneath. Magic is part of that world that the world currently does a lot to refuse. Time may come when it will either disappear or come floating back, in an attempt to restore a modicum of harmony, as cheesy as it sounds.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 23, 2018 3:01:57 GMT
I don't read it as 'mage superiority' - I read it more as 'if we don't stem the tide, we will lose part of the world'. Don't forget that Morrigan didn't portray magic from position of it being superior - she said it's being crushed, like elves, spirits and dragons, because they're not well understood or refused to be understood. They're part of nature, yet they are not treated that way and are - wittingly or unwittingly - exterminated. This is not position of superiority, but vulnerability. Magic and magical creatures may yet become extinct, like our natural environment that we quash while our civilization expands, sometimes with little understanding, because we fear things or want to control them. Ironically, that's a bit like science and scientific denialism - instead of accepting the world as it is, it is refused, thus inviting imbalance to the system (exacerbating what the Veil did already) and potentially spelling our doom. I like this interpretation. But then they turn around and use language like "mediocre" and "the brilliant few" - which sounds to me like they're prioritizing mages and magic. As if there's something wrong with the "common". I disagree with the scientific denialism point, though. Thedas has existed in two distinct states, and neither is more real than the other. Both are functional. That the new normal is different doesn't make it bad; if people understood what the Veil was and how spirits worked I imagine there'd be a lot less conflict in the world, but none of that means that the Veil ought to come down or we're dooming ourselves. The state of the world doesn't seem more imbalanced than it used to be (slavery was a thing, it's still a thing), it's just peoples' knowledge about what the Veil is is incomplete. I don't know about "floating back" - I imagine if the Veil does come down and the magic suddenly returns, it'll be more cataclysmic and less floaty. I think the tide is turning in a softer way, though. There are more dragons than there have been in ages, you can disband the Templars, put a mage-sympathetic Divine on the Sunburst throne, etc. That's the sort of change I like to see.
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Post by KalleDemos on Feb 23, 2018 3:09:16 GMT
I am guessing that much of the games secondary plot will be related to have to choose between Tevinter and the Qunari, and having to accept that they both are incredibly flawed. Tevinter promotes the slave trade, Qunari are a militant, expansionist religion. Slavery sucks, so you side with the qunari. Well, what happens to all those mages? Because they certainly dont get to chose their own path under the qun. Tevinter is the weaker force. You can push back the qunari, but you may have to use some human sacrifices to do it. Is that acceptable when the qunari attack with nerve gas? Stuff like that. The Qunari also have slaves. I don't really see this scenario going down. The Qunari aren't exactly reasonable. Every other nation in Thedas sided with Tevinter, whom they all dislike, over the Qunari. Wasn't a real contest. I don't see that changing now.
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Post by KalleDemos on Feb 23, 2018 3:26:28 GMT
I'd prepare for Sten showing up in DA4. He is Arishok after all. But I don't think his relationship with Warden would have that much of an impact on him - as much as he respects DAO's protagonist, he still went back on Par Vollen convinced that the South needs good invading. I agree! And besides the convictions he already had, I'm sure they gave him a thorough re-educating after traipsing around Ferelden with all those bas for a year... And it's extremely unlikely, but I'd love to see some sort of confrontation (even a harshly-worded letter!) between Divine Leliana and the Stenishok. Leliana: It took three Exalted Marches to drive [the Qunari] back to the sea. Sten: We'll do better next time. A confrontation needs to happen. King Alistair too. Inquisition always annoyed me in that in many areas they acted as if characters that have known each other for years had never met. Any one playing Inquisition as their first Dragon Age game would have had no idea that Leliana and Morrigan knew each other. I mean, this group of people traveled around together for a year and stopped a potentially world ending event together. Inquisition glossed over that fact, I hope that DA4 doesn't ignore relationships built over various adventures.
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Post by KalleDemos on Feb 23, 2018 3:34:04 GMT
What if its the main character, in the next game, that carries out Solas' plans? I'm sure at the beginning of the game, the player will have the opportunity to recruit companions and just like DAI, will start out with 3 mandatory companions. What if one of the companions is an elf that is best buds with Solas? No one knows this, but is well known around the community and willing to help stop Solas. He/she explains some of the things that the main character might/need/want to do to stop Solas. At the end, Solas shows up. At that point, the elf companion reveals that he/she led the main character and others on a quest that ended up helping Solas. I'm sure the main character will be in shock, and have a 'cat-got-your-tongue' look. Welp. He have been betrayed in every previous game. Though I was thinking more along the lines of being betrayed by a Qunari spy. Like, I would love Talis to come back as a companion claiming that she left the Qun and have her loyalties questioned throughout the game and then we find out that, yeah, she's a spy for the Qun. Or someone else as a twist. Like Solas!
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Feb 23, 2018 3:42:50 GMT
Raga FWIW I meant that stuff too. I was using magic as more of an umbrella term, encompassing all the magical, spirit-y, titan-y... mystical stuff. My frustration is with their perspective - one that's understandable given their backgrounds, but one I despise nonetheless - the idea that magic is better. But I'm a filthy pleb so what do I know, eh Solas and Morrigan? It's like.... I'm fine with "magic is beautiful and so it should be celebrated!" But I'm disgusted by "magic is superior and so it should be celebrated!" Well, I don't know if "better" is the right word. To Solas, it would be the world in its natural state. What Morrigan wants is to preserve as much of the world as it was... turns out that is the world in its normal state. The Veil is an artificial construct. So, in a way, it would be like us humans getting rid of all man-made pollution and artificial environments that wrecked natural ecosystems - to restore the world to its natural state. Which would be really bad during an Ice Age but I digress...
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Post by themikefest on Feb 23, 2018 3:47:20 GMT
Welp. He have been betrayed in every previous game. Though I was thinking more along the lines of being betrayed by a Qunari spy. Like, I would love Talis to come back as a companion claiming that she left the Qun and have her loyalties questioned throughout the game and then we find out that, yeah, she's a spy for the Qun. Or someone else as a twist. Like Solas! Then during the game, Hawke makes a cameo saying that he/she worked with Talis in the past and found her to be not trustworthy. The main character asks Hawke for details. Later, the main character approaches Talis, and like what the herald/Inquisitor can tell Sera, tells Talis she's no longer a companion. Or, instead of a qunari or elf, its a dwarf companion who wants to help Solas, why I have no idea, that is the one that betrays the main character?
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 23, 2018 3:52:40 GMT
Raga FWIW I meant that stuff too. I was using magic as more of an umbrella term, encompassing all the magical, spirit-y, titan-y... mystical stuff. My frustration is with their perspective - one that's understandable given their backgrounds, but one I despise nonetheless - the idea that magic is better. But I'm a filthy pleb so what do I know, eh Solas and Morrigan? It's like.... I'm fine with "magic is beautiful and so it should be celebrated!" But I'm disgusted by "magic is superior and so it should be celebrated!" Well, I don't know if "better" is the right word. To Solas, it would be the world in its natural state. What Morrigan wants is to preserve as much of the world as it was... turns out that is the world in its normal state. The Veil is an artificial construct. So, in a way, it would be like us humans getting rid of all man-made pollution and artificial environments that wrecked natural ecosystems - to restore the world to its natural state. Which would be really bad during an Ice Age but I digress... Artificial isn't necessarily bad, though. Dams are artificial. They change the natural landscape, but not necessarily for the worse. Imagine if all that water came flooding back, destroying homes and lives and everything else that was built in the meantime, all for the sake of restoring the natural waterway?
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 23, 2018 3:55:05 GMT
I don't read it as 'mage superiority' - I read it more as 'if we don't stem the tide, we will lose part of the world'. Don't forget that Morrigan didn't portray magic from position of it being superior - she said it's being crushed, like elves, spirits and dragons, because they're not well understood or refused to be understood. They're part of nature, yet they are not treated that way and are - wittingly or unwittingly - exterminated. This is not position of superiority, but vulnerability. Magic and magical creatures may yet become extinct, like our natural environment that we quash while our civilization expands, sometimes with little understanding, because we fear things or want to control them. Ironically, that's a bit like science and scientific denialism - instead of accepting the world as it is, it is refused, thus inviting imbalance to the system (exacerbating what the Veil did already) and potentially spelling our doom. I like this interpretation. But then they turn around and use language like "mediocre" and "the brilliant few" - which sounds to me like they're prioritizing mages and magic. As if there's something wrong with the "common". Well, that only makes sense if you think that 'mediocre' is interchangeable with 'common'. I also don't think that either Morrigan or Solas mean that in that sense of access to magic. Maybe you'd onto something if all we had were those few banters, but when we put that in context of what else they say, it doesn't really hold up. Both of them are about the betterment of oneself. About pushing boundaries and reaching the height of one's potential, and especially about about being open to possibilities and receptive to new ideas. Solas especially. And he has many dialogues with companions in which he discusses them striving for more that have little to do with magic - like with Sera about her cause. Or asking Varric why Orzammar dwarves prefer stale existence underground instead of using lyrium as leverage to help them restore the kingdom or claim sovereign land on the surface. Heck, he also has a banter with Vivienne, who's already a mage and maintains the veneer of utter superiority over another. Solas: Tell me, Enchanter. Do you even bother to explore the Fade in your dreams?
Vivienne: I prefer to explore the world I actually live in.
Solas: Pity. You could be much more powerful if you ventured outside your narrow preconceptions.
Vivienne: Ah, the temptation to leave the path. You sound like a pride demon.
Solas: Enchanter, any pride demon you met would just walk away, shaking its head and laughing uncontrollably.
Vivienne: Oh darling, more than one already has. So it's more about how one views magic and a potential Solas sees in an open-minded approach to it, rather than magic itself. Then there's this banter: Vivienne: You must be disappointed, apostate. Your rebels have not found the freedom they hoped for. Solas: I planted no seeds in your garden, Enchanter. You grew that fruit yourself. Vivienne: And I will once again ensure they are protected from a world that hates and fears them. Solas: While mages live in depravation you do not share? You lord their mystique over those not so gifted. Well played, Enchanter. In another age you might have ruled an empire. Vivienne: You are too kind, my dear. But this age is still young. Aside from it establishing that the issue of mediocrity existed in magical Elvenhan, and Solas stood against powerful Evanuris for crushing those beneath them, Solas is seething at Vivienne for 'lording her mystique/gift over others' and not doing much to help those in situation worse than her, be it mage or commoner. So Solas may believe that some people have easier time reaching their peak, or have unique gifts, but considers it unconscionable to not help those not so gifted reach their potential too. It's congruent with his willingness to share knowledge and applauding characters striving for better, or helping others. This has nothing to do with world's realness, but acceptance of how the world is. In a super-ironic twist, Thedosians have issue with accepting magic as part of natural world, just like some Earthlings have issue accepting that our world is likely entirely devoid of such element. Each preconception can hurt the world, especially if scale of refusing facts is large enough. Also - it's been already established that one 'distinct state' of Thedas is, basically, incomplete. That Fade WAS part of natural world and there's something akin to a magical dam holding it back, and thus hurting the world, with people hurting it further by... well... demonizing the other side. Plus, the fact that - for now - Thedas may exist in a different state than it did doesn't mean that it may last like it for much longer. Solas does imply that everybody's running out of time, and Flemeth/OGB Kieran/Sandal indicates that new era is coming. Thus re-balance may be necessary, even if it's not a re-balance that will shift things exactly how they were before. I didn't say anything about magic 'floating back' peacefully. I don't expect for the process to be peaceful, but how catastrophic it could be, I guess we're yet to find out. "One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see." "We stand upon the precipice of change. The world fears the inevitable plummet into the abyss. Watch for that moment... and when it comes, do not hesitate to leap. It is only when you fall that you learn whether you can fly."Question remains if it is enough. Dragons came back, but so did horrors like Corypheus, enormous beings with unknown agendas cause earthquakes that shake whole regions, dark shadows and echoes of ancient threats show up in places, and through all that we have beings who were once thought of as gods or caused events that re-shaped the world are walking on land and nudging events towards something that goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond common politics of the Chantry.
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