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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 13, 2017 3:35:16 GMT
It pretty much looks like a MMO open-world shooter. Apart from the bit of NPC convo there was nothing RPG like shown. So there is that. "It pretty much looks like a MMO open-world shooter" does not mean it is a MMO open-world shooter. Until we see and learn more about the game, it's pointless to assume you know exactly what kind of experience this is going to be.
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Post by JokeDealer on Aug 13, 2017 4:50:22 GMT
They are basing it off nothing other than pure speculation, .... It pretty much looks like a MMO open-world shooter. Apart from the bit of NPC convo there was nothing RPG like shown. So there is that. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. RPG elements not being shown in the gameplay trailer does not guarantee, nor add any credence to the idea that Anthem is not an RPG at all. If I were to speculate, I'd say it's likely that these elements weren't shown at E3 because the UI for these systems isn't finished, which wouldn't be unusual for a game at its stage of development. However, I cannot say for sure. Assuming that there won't be any RPG elements because they were absent from a gameplay trailer that was released a year before the game's development is incredibly misguided.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 17, 2017 19:48:56 GMT
It pretty much looks like a MMO open-world shooter. Apart from the bit of NPC convo there was nothing RPG like shown. So there is that. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. RPG elements not being shown in the gameplay trailer does not guarantee, nor add any credence to the idea that Anthem is not an RPG at all. If I were to speculate, I'd say it's likely that these elements weren't shown at E3 because the UI for these systems isn't finished, which wouldn't be unusual for a game at its stage of development. However, I cannot say for sure. Assuming that there won't be any RPG elements because they were absent from a gameplay trailer that was released a year before the game's development is incredibly misguided. So we're just supposed to take their word for it? Because trust is in short supply nowadays...
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Post by laudable11 on Aug 18, 2017 2:34:04 GMT
The devs don't even give a crap about this game. It's so quiet. Another bomb of a game may be on the way.
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Post by Heimdall on Aug 18, 2017 13:26:08 GMT
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. RPG elements not being shown in the gameplay trailer does not guarantee, nor add any credence to the idea that Anthem is not an RPG at all. If I were to speculate, I'd say it's likely that these elements weren't shown at E3 because the UI for these systems isn't finished, which wouldn't be unusual for a game at its stage of development. However, I cannot say for sure. Assuming that there won't be any RPG elements because they were absent from a gameplay trailer that was released a year before the game's development is incredibly misguided. So we're just supposed to take their word for it? Because trust is in short supply nowadays... No, just not assume it's not there because of the tiny sliver of a game we have seen. We really don't know very much yet about what the gameplay of the final product will be like.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 18, 2017 15:06:00 GMT
So we're just supposed to take their word for it? Because trust is in short supply nowadays... No, just not assume it's not there because of the tiny sliver of a game we have seen. We really don't know very much yet about what the gameplay of the final product will be like. However: 1) Bioware games have had their RPG elements watered down for years preceding this 2) Other games of a similar type to this game: Destiny, Titanfall, The Division, are known for having very thin stories and poor RPG elements. And so, taken in with the fact that Bioware has shown and described FA of thei "traditional" Bioware-ness of this game, what are we supposed to think?
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Post by Heimdall on Aug 18, 2017 15:17:58 GMT
No, just not assume it's not there because of the tiny sliver of a game we have seen. We really don't know very much yet about what the gameplay of the final product will be like. However: 1) Bioware games have had their RPG elements watered down for years preceding this 2) Other games of a similar type to this game: Destiny, Titanfall, The Division, are known for having very thin stories and poor RPG elements. And so, taken in with the fact that Bioware has shown and described FA of thei "traditional" Bioware-ness of this game, what are we supposed to think? 1) In some ways, but mostly in combat and arguably story structure changes. They have consistently maintained character creation (something not at all inconsistent with this genre looking at their competitors) and dialogue choices even if they have changed how they approach them. 2) Those games were all criticized for weak stories, often considered their weakest point. If anything, I think Bioware's approach to story is precisely why EA wanted them making the competitor in this market, otherwise it would be an odd choice. So I'm not worried so much at this point. Bioware has said FA about anything in the game, that's what I'm getting at. They have said that we can expect a "traditional Bioware story" in a tweet I believe, but if we want to know more we'll just have to wait. Bioware knows their usual fans are paying attention, that demo was designed to get the attention of the Destiny crowd.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 19, 2017 5:31:00 GMT
However: 1) Bioware games have had their RPG elements watered down for years preceding this 2) Other games of a similar type to this game: Destiny, Titanfall, The Division, are known for having very thin stories and poor RPG elements. And so, taken in with the fact that Bioware has shown and described FA of thei "traditional" Bioware-ness of this game, what are we supposed to think? 1) Whether BioWare RPGs have been "watered down" or "streamlined" is a matter of opinion, not fact. 2) You have no idea if Anthem is anything like Destiny, Titanfall, or The Division. You are merely assuming it is because there is online play and you can jump into an exosuit. I will not be surprised if Anthem is nothing like those games.
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Post by bizantura on Aug 19, 2017 15:08:00 GMT
I think the wording of the poll could use polishing!
I am an RPG player and have no interest in Anthem but that does not mean I have no interest in this "crap" is the way to describe my non-interest.
Bioware has every right to make any genre of games they want. I also feel Bioware is moving away from the RPG genre for years now. More and more dipping their toes in other directions and trying to pull their RPG audience with them as much as they can.
I never cared for online gaming but that is what the multinational developers want. As much revenue for as little investment = online gaming. And I don't mean this to be offensive/derogatory, lots and lots of players enjoy online gaming and that is fine, just not me!
I want more substance to my gaming than perfect animations, gimmicks like virtual reality, weapons customization etcetera. Deep story telling thru computer games seems too costly and becoming a thing of the past. I have to adjust to that fact one way or another it is simply the nature of reality.
Ah well, back to books it is.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 19, 2017 15:45:36 GMT
I think the wording of the poll could use polishing! I am an RPG player and have no interest in Anthem but that does not mean I have no interest in this "crap" is the way to describe my non-interest. Bioware has every right to make any genre of games they want. I also feel Bioware is moving away from the RPG genre for years now. More and more dipping their toes in other directions and trying to pull their RPG audience with them as much as they can. I never cared for online gaming but that is what the multinational developers want. As much revenue for as little investment = online gaming. And I don't mean this to be offensive/derogatory, lots and lots of players enjoy online gaming and that is fine, just not me! I want more substance to my gaming than perfect animations, gimmicks like virtual reality, weapons customization etcetera. Deep story telling thru computer games seems too costly and becoming a thing of the past. I have to adjust to that fact one way or another it is simply the nature of reality. Ah well, back to books it is. It's a bad poll for the simple fact that Anthem has been confirmed to be an action RPG (just like DAI and MEA). Like half of the threads on this sub-forum, the OP doesn't know what Anthem is and is merely assuming what it is. How do you know Anthem will not have a BioWare story with choices? How do you know it won't have companions? How do you know this game is really just some cookie cutter looter shooter with no substance? You don't know. Nobody does. We've seen 10 minutes of footage that told us next to nothing... The game is a year away from release. Everybody just needs to calm down, take a breather, and wait to actually find out what Anthem is. I've been playing BioWare RPGs since KOTOR in 2003 because of the great characters and story. I seriously doubt BioWare would throw the baby out with the bath water, as it were, and make a Destiny clone. For the past 14 years, all they've done is BioWare story with characters, even in their MMO... Anthem is not an MMO and will be far less ambitious, so I don't see why BioWare would throw out the story now. There is zero evidence any of these assumptions that BSN is making are true. Why spread doom and gloom over something we know nothing about?
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Post by Iakus on Aug 19, 2017 16:39:54 GMT
However: 1) Bioware games have had their RPG elements watered down for years preceding this 2) Other games of a similar type to this game: Destiny, Titanfall, The Division, are known for having very thin stories and poor RPG elements. And so, taken in with the fact that Bioware has shown and described FA of thei "traditional" Bioware-ness of this game, what are we supposed to think? 1) Whether BioWare RPGs have been "watered down" or "streamlined" is a matter of opinion, not fact. 2) You have no idea if Anthem is anything like Destiny, Titanfall, or The Division. You are merely assuming it is because there is online play and you can jump into an exosuit. I will not be surprised if Anthem is nothing like those games. And I will not be surprised it if Anthem is exactly like those games.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 19, 2017 21:51:04 GMT
And I will not be surprised it if Anthem is exactly like those games. And that will be fine, IF your assumption is right. The whole point is for you to recognize, however, that you are assuming what Anthem is. Your rationale is essentially the equivalent of seeing a ten second teaser trailer for a new film and proclaiming it's a copy/paste of other films that came out recently. That's a ridiculous assertion to make, because teasers often tell you next to nothing about the final product. Not to mention, as is the case with game development, games change quite considerably from production to going gold.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 19, 2017 22:35:34 GMT
And I will not be surprised it if Anthem is exactly like those games. And that will be fine, IF your assumption is right. The whole point is for you to recognize, however, that you are assuming what Anthem is. Your rationale is essentially the equivalent of seeing a ten second teaser trailer for a new film and proclaiming it's a copy/paste of other films that came out recently. That's a ridiculous assertion to make, because teasers often tell you next to nothing about the final product. Not to mention, as is the case with game development, but games change quite considerably from production to going gold. If you know what kinds of movies a studio and director have made in the past, and the genre of the current project, you've got a pretty good idea what the new movie is gonna be like. Sure, you may still be surprised, but being surprised, by definition, means that the project in question defied expectations despite evidence to the contrary.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Aug 19, 2017 23:43:36 GMT
And I will not be surprised it if Anthem is exactly like those games. And that will be fine, IF your assumption is right. The whole point is for you to recognize, however, that you are assuming what Anthem is. Your rationale is essentially the equivalent of seeing a ten second teaser trailer for a new film and proclaiming it's a copy/paste of other films that came out recently. That's a ridiculous assertion to make, because teasers often tell you next to nothing about the final product. Not to mention, as is the case with game development, games change quite considerably from production to going gold. I will say Anthem may or may not be unique or different. I will say though that the industry as a whole does tend to follow trends and because of that, that is why people assume x products will most likely be like another x product that's already out. I'm feeling optimistic that Anthem will be different, however that optimistic feeling is cause it's bioware, if it were anyone else I'd most likely see the devs trying to just copy destiny/division, etc etc.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 19, 2017 23:47:08 GMT
I will say Anthem may or may not be unique or different. I will say though that the industry as a whole does tend to follow trends and because of that, that is why people assume x products will most likely be like another x product that's already out. I'm feeling optimistic that Anthem will be different, however that optimistic feeling is cause it's bioware, if it were anyone else I'd most likely see the devs trying to just copy destiny/division, etc etc. One thing I will say is that Casey Hudson, the one who created the Anthem IP, stated that he wanted to build something that had never been done before. Anthem's code name was "Project Dylan" because Casey envisioned Anthem being the "Bob Dylan of video games." In other words, he believes the IP will be influential and change the industry in a significant way. Whether that ends up being true or not is something we'll just have to wait and see. However, I'm willing to give the game a chance and hope it truly is something different and new and not just something we've seen before.
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Post by JokeDealer on Aug 20, 2017 7:39:20 GMT
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. RPG elements not being shown in the gameplay trailer does not guarantee, nor add any credence to the idea that Anthem is not an RPG at all. If I were to speculate, I'd say it's likely that these elements weren't shown at E3 because the UI for these systems isn't finished, which wouldn't be unusual for a game at its stage of development. However, I cannot say for sure. Assuming that there won't be any RPG elements because they were absent from a gameplay trailer that was released a year before the game's development is incredibly misguided. So we're just supposed to take their word for it? Because trust is in short supply nowadays... Until we have satisfactory evidence to the contrary, their word is, objectively speaking, a more legitimate source of information than your feeling or opinion.
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Post by JokeDealer on Aug 20, 2017 8:01:17 GMT
No, just not assume it's not there because of the tiny sliver of a game we have seen. We really don't know very much yet about what the gameplay of the final product will be like. However: 1) Bioware games have had their RPG elements watered down for years preceding this 2) Other games of a similar type to this game: Destiny, Titanfall, The Division, are known for having very thin stories and poor RPG elements. And so, taken in with the fact that Bioware has shown and described FA of thei "traditional" Bioware-ness of this game, what are we supposed to think? 1) That statement is a matter of opinion, not fact. I'm not saying that I don't share similar opinions, but this statement is based on the idea that there is a definitive list of RPG elements and what they should be. Even if you have your own list, it has no sway here because someone else might have a list that is totally different than yours. 2) Destiny and the Division are good points. Both were lacking in narrative and gameplay aspects. However, why is Titanfall one of your examples? That was not, nor was it ever intended to be an RPG of any sort. I am honestly wondering if you meant another game and said Titanfall by mistake, or if you merely intended to take a potshot at EA and multiplayer games in one go. Regardless, Titanfall may have been sorely lacking in the narrative department, but Titanfall 2's story was very good in my opinion. Again, your argument is based in logical fallacies, but I doubt that makes any difference. Destiny and the Division may have been bad, and they may be similar to what Anthem might be, but, regardless of your opinion, that will have literally no impact on the quality of Anthem. in addition, our definition of what an RPG is or is not, is arbitrary at best and totally nonexistent at worst.
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Post by Sartoz on Aug 20, 2017 12:47:46 GMT
So we're just supposed to take their word for it? Because trust is in short supply nowadays... Until we have satisfactory evidence to the contrary, their word is, objectively speaking, a more legitimate source of information than your feeling or opinion. -(_ANTHEM_)-
Hm...
Marketing BS may be a legitimate source but hardly trustworthy information. More accurately, one needs to parcel marketing statements for nuggets of actual information.
Bio's initial description of the game is designed to generate suggestions of what it is or may be but also to reveal as little as possible. Anthem's 1st teaser video is a perfect example of a marketing strategy to generate buzz, interest and speculation. Thus, I find Iakus' "feelings" and "opinion" the intended result of said marketing.
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Post by steppenwolf on Aug 20, 2017 23:18:19 GMT
Anthem doesn't feel like a BioWare game at all and it doesn't even look interesting. At least Destiny has a decent aesthetic. Anthem just screams "GENERIC" in every aspect. And the fact that it's not an RPG makes me automatically disinterested. A few friends at work are interested in it and seemed hyped, but I'm feeling zero hype. If they like the game and the multiplayer is good I might buy it and play with them, but I feel that's unlikely at this point.
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Post by Sifr on Aug 21, 2017 8:22:52 GMT
Great, Andromeda died so you could live... try not to be as generic as you look, Destitanthem.
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Post by Kanthric on Aug 21, 2017 19:42:38 GMT
One thing I will say is that Casey Hudson, the one who created the Anthem IP, stated that he wanted to build something that had never been done before. Anthem's code name was "Project Dylan" because Casey envisioned Anthem being the "Bob Dylan of video games." In other words, he believes the IP will be influential and change the industry in a significant way. Whether that ends up being true or not is something we'll just have to wait and see. However, I'm willing to give the game a chance and hope it truly is something different and new and not just something we've seen before. Bioware Montreal also wanted to forge a procedurally generated universe for Mass Effect Andromeda with a view to making space exploration fun, replayable, and a major hook for the game. For a variety of reasons, that went belly up and caused a lot of grief to ME:A as a game in the process. Casey Hudson has been away from Anthem, and Bioware, for two years at a critical stage of the game's development. What he wanted, and what is, may have changed as harsh realities and monetisation modelling kicked in. Although for his sake and the game's sake, I hope that hasn't happened. Anyway, although I'm further along the cynic's bench than you, I do agree that some of the slating based on opinion isn't helpful. Is it going to be an RPG exactly like Bioware's other works? No, clearly not. Does that mean there'll be no RPG feel or elements to it, or that they'll have torched the story out of it? No, clearly not. Is it going to have a horrific level of grind in some capacity? Almost certainly, given the length of time they're hinting it might be live for places it in MMO territory. Will that grind lack fun? We don't know - way too early to say. Bioware have hopefully learned from SW:TOR that story content will be burned through faster than they thought by a sizeable chunk of the player base, so hopefully they've given some thought to early content expansion already. Admittedly, assuming there will be companions, or that (x,y,z) RPG feature will of course be in it, or that the story will be up to snuff, etc. is all wishful thinking on the optimists' side as well. Personally, I'm still where I was. Looks pretty, seems like an interesting concept, not really a genre space I'm excited about. I'm not overjoyed that this is their new IP, in the same way I wasn't impressed at Mass Effect's increasingly contrived "...but 'splosions!" storyline and godawful trilogy ending. But it hasn't reached the depths of catatonic rage that erupted from me in response to the butchering of the Dragon Age series between DA:O and DA2. Bioware remain awesome at what they do; I just prefer their older hits rather than the new material.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2017 10:58:09 GMT
I'll be honest I don't give a damn about a co-op online shooter so I was not planning to buy it in the first place but considering how they mistreated my favorite franchise I now hold a prejudice against Anthem so I really hope it fails. I know it's not wise nor intelligent to do but I simply can't take away this feeling that in a way or the other BW didn't put the same amount of attention and skills they are allegedly putting in this game.
Looking forward to DA4 and wishing it a great success.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2017 13:08:11 GMT
I'll be honest I don't give a damn about a co-op online shooter so I was not planning to buy it in the first place but considering how they mistreated my favorite franchise I now hold a prejudice against Anthem so I really hope it fails. I know it's not wise nor intelligent to do but I simply can't take away this feeling that in a way or the other BW didn't put the same amount of attention and skills they are allegedly putting in this game. Looking forward to DA4 and wishing it a great success. I hope you work through this feeling. I had the twinge as well, but it's so irrational, plus... well, tbh I cringed because I believe that many people were glad to see Andromeda fail because of the unresolved issues they had with ME3, be it its endings or the fact that they traded Shepard for Ryder. The last thing I want to do is to emulate it. It does take me conscious efforts, but if i don't reign myself in I'd be incapable of being open to Anthem, DA4 and Cyberpunk based solely on reading what other people say on the forums about other games. I mean, I do not pick how to feel about games based on someone else's opinion about those very same games, how could I justify feeling embittered about games in advance based on something that has nothing to do with that game? I do like being on the forums, and to remain on the forums I have to get over hubris and flame wars and not to predjudge. Otherwise I will never be able to talk about games with other people who play games...
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Post by Qolx on Aug 22, 2017 16:56:11 GMT
The devs don't even give a crap about this game. It's so quiet. Another bomb of a game may be on the way. BW community managers are still doing market research in the anthem subreddit. They regularly ask users what they want to see, features, etc. It's nice they're doing that but I believe the devs are still unsure on many aspects of their game.
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Post by Heimdall on Aug 22, 2017 17:58:12 GMT
The devs don't even give a crap about this game. It's so quiet. Another bomb of a game may be on the way. BW community managers are still doing market research in the anthem subreddit. They regularly ask users what they want to see, features, etc. It's nice they're doing that but I believe the devs are still unsure on many aspects of their game. Out of curiousity, what sort of questions have they been asking? It wouldn't surprise me if they haven't worked out 100% how they want the co-op to work.
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