Wulfram
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Post by Wulfram on Jun 14, 2017 19:49:55 GMT
In the sense that its Bioware's attempt to move into a lucrative multiplayer market by offering more of the same but with more story? Its even got Drew Karpyshyn writing for it again.
I like SW:tOR, but it didn't really do what Bioware were hoping in terms of commerical success and I think in a large part the fault was in the concept. The story telling, while often very good, did not go well with multiplayer - enjoying a Bioware story is better done at your own pace, while in multiplayer your focus is on your fellow players, not the story. In fact SW:tOR's latest two expansions seems to have made the story segments into essentially single player experiences - is that what Anthem will end up doing?
I also think SW:tOR ended up being too conservative with its gameplay choices, which might be something Anthem can do better with?
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Fogg
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Post by Fogg on Jun 14, 2017 20:10:16 GMT
SWTOR was EA getting in on WoW
Anthem is EA getting in on Destiny/The Division
It's not like EA is asking BioWare "Hey, would you guys like to do one of those cash cows?", they're telling them to.
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lynx7386
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Post by lynx7386 on Jun 14, 2017 20:37:43 GMT
SWTOR was EA getting in on WoW Anthem is EA getting in on Destiny/The Division It's not like EA is asking BioWare "Hey, would you guys like to do one of those cash cows?", they're telling them to. As much as I loathe these publishing companies that have burned all creativity out of the gaming industry, unfortunately we're stuck with them.
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Post by Cyonan on Jun 14, 2017 20:42:51 GMT
SWtoR's biggest problem is that it attempted to go up against the unstoppable juggernaut that was World of Warcraft by trying to be World of Warcraft with a Star Wars coat of paint on it.
While Destiny did well enough, it wasn't this genre's World of Warcraft. The genre of "open world shooter with drop in multiplayer" hasn't had a game like that yet.
However Bungie is making a go of it with Destiny 2, which is supposed to have a bigger emphasis on the story as well from what I'm hearing and will be released well before Anthem is out.
If that's a runaway hit then I don't see Anthem being the lightning in a bottle that I'm sure BioWare is hoping to capture with this one, even if it is a good game. The people interested in it will already be well rooted in Destiny 2.
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azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Jun 14, 2017 20:46:28 GMT
SWTOR was EA getting in on WoW Anthem is EA getting in on Destiny/The Division It's not like EA is asking BioWare "Hey, would you guys like to do one of those cash cows?", they're telling them to. Except for the part were BioWare was already working on SWTOR for almost 2 years before EA bought them or that Anthem was in the work for more than a 1 year before Destiny was even revealed. I think people are trying to push a wee bit too much the "it's EA fault" when BioWare themselves always wanted to make a "cash cows" game, like any gaming studios might I add.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 20:51:10 GMT
In the sense that its Bioware's attempt to move into a lucrative multiplayer market by offering more of the same but with more story? Its even got Drew Karpyshyn writing for it again. I like SW:tOR, but it didn't really do what Bioware were hoping in terms of commerical success and I think in a large part the fault was in the concept. The story telling, while often very good, did not go well with multiplayer - enjoying a Bioware story is better done at your own pace, while in multiplayer your focus is on your fellow players, not the story. In fact SW:tOR's latest two expansions seems to have made the story segments into essentially single player experiences - is that what Anthem will end up doing? I also think SW:tOR ended up being too conservative with its gameplay choices, which might be something Anthem can do better with? Unfortunately not. SWTOR's most incredible and most advertised feature is that it has 8 parallel protagonist's full-length stories. SWTOR is DA:O on steroids. With Anthem, if they cover the Freelancer's story as well as they did even one of the SWTOR protagonists with 5 companions like thye had, and the amount of interactions in the world, I'll be extatic. Eight though, and with two warring perspectives? Not a chance! Essentially SP experience though is music to my ears.
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Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 14, 2017 20:57:12 GMT
SWtoR's biggest problem is that it attempted to go up against the unstoppable juggernaut that was World of Warcraft by trying to be World of Warcraft with a Star Wars coat of paint on it. While Destiny did well enough, it wasn't this genre's World of Warcraft. The genre of "open world shooter with drop in multiplayer" hasn't had a game like that yet. However Bungie is making a go of it with Destiny 2, which is supposed to have a bigger emphasis on the story as well from what I'm hearing and will be released well before Anthem is out. If that's a runaway hit then I don't see Anthem being the lightning in a bottle that I'm sure BioWare is hoping to capture with this one, even if it is a good game. The people interested in it will already be well rooted in Destiny 2. Possibly, but it also comes out a year later, by which point many could be drawn to sink their teeth into something new. Depending on how they handle it, I think Bioware could still deliver an entirely different story experience. The biggest problem I imagine would be if Bungie decided to drop an expansion around the same time...
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Fogg
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Post by Fogg on Jun 14, 2017 21:02:55 GMT
SWTOR was EA getting in on WoW Anthem is EA getting in on Destiny/The Division It's not like EA is asking BioWare "Hey, would you guys like to do one of those cash cows?", they're telling them to. Except for the part were BioWare was already working on SWTOR for almost 2 years before EA bought them or that Anthem was in the work for more than a 1 year before Destiny was even revealed. I think people are trying to push a wee bit too much the "it's EA fault" when BioWare themselves always wanted to make a "cash cows" game, like any gaming studios might I add. Why you debunk my cynism with facts?
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Post by Cyonan on Jun 14, 2017 21:07:12 GMT
SWtoR's biggest problem is that it attempted to go up against the unstoppable juggernaut that was World of Warcraft by trying to be World of Warcraft with a Star Wars coat of paint on it. While Destiny did well enough, it wasn't this genre's World of Warcraft. The genre of "open world shooter with drop in multiplayer" hasn't had a game like that yet. However Bungie is making a go of it with Destiny 2, which is supposed to have a bigger emphasis on the story as well from what I'm hearing and will be released well before Anthem is out. If that's a runaway hit then I don't see Anthem being the lightning in a bottle that I'm sure BioWare is hoping to capture with this one, even if it is a good game. The people interested in it will already be well rooted in Destiny 2. Possibly, but it also comes out a year later, by which point many could be drawn to sink their teeth into something new. Depending on how they handle it, I think Bioware could still deliver an entirely different story experience. The biggest problem I imagine would be if Bungie decided to drop an expansion around the same time... If Destiny 2 is the runaway hit that everybody is after right now then it stands to reason they'd continue to support it long after launch, like how WoW is currently on its 6th expansion. Though if it's mediocre or even simply just pretty good then Anthem has the door wide open for them to take the throne if it can be an amazing game.
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azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Jun 14, 2017 21:10:42 GMT
Except for the part were BioWare was already working on SWTOR for almost 2 years before EA bought them or that Anthem was in the work for more than a 1 year before Destiny was even revealed. I think people are trying to push a wee bit too much the "it's EA fault" when BioWare themselves always wanted to make a "cash cows" game, like any gaming studios might I add. Why you debunk my cynism with facts? Because I love facts...
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Post by boyaki on Jun 14, 2017 22:44:53 GMT
SWTOR was lacking on many fields. -1st problem was copying the gameplay of wow : WoW had more experience and it was hard to convince players to bring their entire group of friend to play to a copy with less budget and experience. -The stories of the game were good, for a mmo however the story did not fit the world experience. For those who don't know each class and each planet have a particular story with some key decision (you know...bioware stuff). However you had to do a lot of meaningless quest like fetching a purse in the middle of a war zone (true) and visit a ton of cave big enough to host a star destroyer and filled with 50+ mob (I don't joke at all). I don't know who in the production decided that they will stretch the lonely boring leveling stuff when the game is meant to be play at high level. It was weird to be this dark inquisitor who finish a civil war and kill our previous master just to do errand again by npc calling you lord, clearly world building and leveling were aweful. -The animation and movement were very weird, the way hostile npc moves or attack were off-puting and most if not all fight mechanic were old with infinite variation on "hit, heal, kill and nothing else". With time SWTOR got better, focusing on story with the last expansion yet this long solo experience was weird in a MMO.
So no, I hope it is not SWTOR 2.0, I do hope they learned their lesson on how fitting story telling and world building. This was the weakest point of both Inquisition and Andromeda in my opinion.
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Post by jagaro on Jun 14, 2017 23:37:30 GMT
SWTOR devs were caught by surprise by the MMO player base and their ability to consume content.
When these locusts went through every quest and reached endgame immediately it became apparent that SWTOR was only really setup for the journey (which at the time was a slog for me) and was banking on players keeping busy with the story.
When there was a massive outcry for more and more raids and more emphasis on PvP without immediate results, a large amount of players cancelled their sub and caused a mass panic for EA/Bioware Austin.
They then went Free to Play and had to convert the game over to that. Also the dev team was greatly cut down in size and was only given a smaller budget to work with.
When an MMO is expected to thrive it can't have a small dev team and miniscule budget. There is no way the appropriate content can be created in this scenario.
For Anthem to not suck post launch, it must have alot of manpower behind it to bring content and the proper budget for it.
The game cannot just launch and expect to stay afloat with what it has and slow, minor updates.
This is where SWTOR went wrong as did the Division.
Funny enough Destiny had a rocky launch but Bungie stuck with it.
That is why you will see debates between Destiny 2 and Anthem and not the Division.
So SWTOR is an example of what not to do post launch. It got lots and lots of hype and marketing before launch, like Anthem will, but EA simply let it flounder on its own.
Hopefully that doesn't happen with Anthem.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jun 15, 2017 10:17:57 GMT
SWTOR was EA getting in on WoW Anthem is EA getting in on Destiny/The Division It's not like EA is asking BioWare "Hey, would you guys like to do one of those cash cows?", they're telling them to. As much as I loathe these publishing companies that have burned all creativity out of the gaming industry, unfortunately we're stuck with them. Which really doesn't make any sense to say if you don't care about them (I'm speaking for myself here). I'm not sure I'm hooked on Anthem yet. I'd rather hold on to my money and cause the next gaming crash than I would let it go on to cultivate the industry further towards homogenization and games I don't really care for even if it means we'll have some years of really low-budget stuff and B-level graphics. I've stopped supporting Activision since Destiny and they haven't launched other games I care for since. Overwatch is popular but that's social gaming and multiplayer. That's gonna thrive no matter what but can it sustain an entire industry alone while all the singleplayer gamers opt out? I don't think so. My fallback if singleplayer games and RPGs ever stop being made at a AAA scale is that some of my favorite games of all time are not even that big and they could be done easily on a mobile scale, like Ace Attorney and Hotel Dusk. It would suck if we can never get another thing like the Mass Effect Trilogy in terms of scope and production, but so be it if the industry is moving on to "disruptive social action games" or whatever EA calls it. It's just not got what I'm looking for in a game by its own. If gaming can't be a space of diversity of ideas and creativity I'm done supporting it.
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SwobyJ
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 20, 2017 20:07:47 GMT
I think SWTOR may have enough in it for a (IMO as I call it) '3rd Phase' of its 'journey', the second of which may or may not not be done yet (KOTFE/KOTET).
But otherwise yes, Anthem may be the 'live service' focused game to move to. Maybe it was going to be 'Shadow Realms' before.
It may be developed in Edmonton but its still possible that extended support moves to Austin (replacing or transitioning SWTOR development?) or Montreal (if to keep that studio going?), for all we know.
Its pretty clear to me that they want Anthem to be the game of the 2020s that they had SWTOR be for the 2010s.
Them stating intentions to cover Anthem for 10 years could be anything from just having a couple sequels intended, to only updating and expanding 'Anthem (1)' for more then several years as long as it is profitable enough.
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