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Post by Pokemario on Jun 23, 2017 12:40:45 GMT
After all, the political situation in Thedas seems to be precarious at best: - People in Ferelden are very unhappy with their ruler's decision to harbour the rebel mages.
- If Alistair is king, then people are also questioning his royal blood.
- If Anora is queen, it is stated that there have also been concerns about the lack of an heir.
- Some among the Orlesian nobility are unhappy with their ruler's actions, and the Orlais epilogue slides at the end of DAI either state or hint that the peace the Inquisitor brought to the Empire won't last forever.
- Many also believe that a renewal of the conflict between Orlais and Ferelden is inevitable.
- Orzammar is facing political unrest following food shortages. DAO epilogue slides also say that
- King Bhelen made many enemies among the warrior and noble castes, and several attemps on his life were made.
- King Harrowmont crushed a rebellion in the slums, which caused an outrage among the dwarven people.
- The Grey Wardens, who rule the Anderfels, are in the middle of a civil war.
- As Tevinter is occupied in its war against the Qunari, the political party of the Lucerni are causing enough noise to send assassins after Dorian. Calpernia, who also wants to change the Imperium, might come back, eventually.
- There's apparently an Arishok lurking in the shadows of Par Vollen. The Qunari also distanced themselves from the Viddasala's actions in the Trespasser DLC, indicating that they might also have to deal with rogue factions.
- King Markus in Nevarra is old and of poor health. His rule, condemned by many, has already been opposed in the past.
- Divine Victoria's reforms have caused concern among Thedosians. According to DAI's epilogue slides, some people resisted her rule through sects or revolts.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 13:03:57 GMT
After all, the political situation in Thedas seems to be precarious at best: - People in Ferelden are very unhappy with their ruler's decision to harbour the rebel mages.
- If Alistair is king, then people are also questioning his royal blood.
- If Anora is queen, it is stated that there have also been concerns about the lack of an heir
But wouldn't that be for both rulers though? Considering Alistair might not be married and is a Grey Warden himself. I think it's a huge concern for my happy married GW Queen Cousland and King Alistair though, considering its nearly impossible to conceive an heir as a GW.
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Pokemario
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Post by Pokemario on Jun 23, 2017 13:07:42 GMT
- If Anora is queen, it is stated that there have also been concerns about the lack of an heir
But wouldn't that be for both rulers though? Considering Alistair might not be married and is a Grey Warden himself. I think it's a huge concern for my happy married GW Queen Cousland and King Alistair though, considering its nearly impossible to conceive an heir as a GW. It might be, but the codex only mentions the "heir" bit in Codex Entry: Queen Anora Mac Tir, which only appears if Alistair isn't sitting on the throne.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 13:09:45 GMT
But wouldn't that be for both rulers though? Considering Alistair might not be married and is a Grey Warden himself. I think it's a huge concern for my happy married GW Queen Cousland and King Alistair though, considering its nearly impossible to conceive an heir as a GW. It might be, but the codex only mentions the "heir" bit in Codex Entry: Queen Anora Mac Tir, which only appears if Alistair isn't sitting on the throne. Ah. But It seriously should be a huge concern for the GWs to somehow conceive a child though.
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Post by tacsear on Jun 23, 2017 13:22:16 GMT
Alistair and Anora could produce an heir though
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Post by Pokemario on Jun 23, 2017 13:30:04 GMT
Alistair and Anora could produce an heir though Eh, it's heavily hinted that Anora is barren and that Alistair's tainted blood prevents him from having a child. Not to mention that she's in her fourties (IIRC), and that Alistair could be in a relationship with the Warden. I don't really see it happening. But hey! They might surprise us
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Post by tacsear on Jun 23, 2017 13:35:38 GMT
Alistair and Anora could produce an heir though Eh, it's heavily hinted that Anora is barren and that Alistair's tainted blood prevents him from having a child. Not to mention that she's in her fourties (IIRC), and that Alistair could be in a relationship with the Warden. I don't really see it happening. But hey! They might surprise us But Therin blood can overcome the taint. I don't want to get too much in spoilers but it can. If Anora is the same age as Cailan (born in 9:05) then I think it is really possible
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 13:38:13 GMT
The problems of succession happens when there is uncertainty. The fact that a child is very unlikely to be born to the royal couple in Fereldain no matter who rules due to the known fertility issues is actually helpful. Alistair/Anora will find it easier to address it by designating someone like Teagan (i.e an upstanding well-regarded relation) as an heir because they know it is unlikely that they would produce a child that will be threatened by the designated heir. Choosing an obvious successor early in case of Alsitair ruling also has a political advantage of him being a prime candidate as a Regent, because Alistair's' early death is likely and should Alistair's natural virility wins over DS taint. In other words, the problems of succession are always the problems of uncertainty and hesitation, and can be head off fairly easily.
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Post by Pokemario on Jun 23, 2017 13:46:39 GMT
Eh, it's heavily hinted that Anora is barren and that Alistair's tainted blood prevents him from having a child. Not to mention that she's in her fourties (IIRC), and that Alistair could be in a relationship with the Warden. I don't really see it happening. But hey! They might surprise us But Therin blood can overcome the taint. I don't want to get too much in spoilers but it can. Are you referring to Fiona? Because, if you are, I highly doubt that Maric's blood was the thing that allowed her to live. If Theirin blood could overcome the taint, then Alistair shouldn't have been able to kill the Archdemon in DAO.
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Post by tacsear on Jun 23, 2017 14:05:48 GMT
But Therin blood can overcome the taint. I don't want to get too much in spoilers but it can. Are you referring to Fiona? Because, if you are, I highly doubt that Maric's blood was the thing that allowed her to live. If Theirin blood could overcome the taint, then Alistair shouldn't have been able to kill the Archdemon in DAO. Fiona was the first hint. If you kill all 10 dragons in DAI you get a war table mission and if you complete it with Leliana you get a letter stating that dragons can isolate the Blighted areas in their bodies. Which means that dragon blood can override the taint
My theory regarding Alistair is that the dragon blood in his body will slowly overcome the taint and he will become a normal person again
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Post by Pokemario on Jun 23, 2017 14:15:01 GMT
Are you referring to Fiona? Because, if you are, I highly doubt that Maric's blood was the thing that allowed her to live. If Theirin blood could overcome the taint, then Alistair shouldn't have been able to kill the Archdemon in DAO. Fiona was the first hint. If you kill all 10 dragons in DAI you get a war table mission and if you complete it with Leliana you get a letter stating that dragons can isolate the Blighted areas in their bodies. Which means that dragon blood can override the taint
My theory regarding Alistair is that the dragon blood in his body will slowly overcome the taint and he will become a normal person again Don't we run into blighted dragons in DAO? EDIT: The dragon thralls, IIRC.
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Post by tacsear on Jun 23, 2017 14:16:50 GMT
Fiona was the first hint. If you kill all 10 dragons in DAI you get a war table mission and if you complete it with Leliana you get a letter stating that dragons can isolate the Blighted areas in their bodies. Which means that dragon blood can override the taint
My theory regarding Alistair is that the dragon blood in his body will slowly overcome the taint and he will become a normal person again Don't we run into blighted dragons in DAO? I think it is just overlooked because the dragon in DA2 looks blighted too
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Post by Catilina on Jun 23, 2017 23:17:28 GMT
Alistair can have heir: Kieran. Another bastard prince...
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Post by shechinah on Jun 24, 2017 0:22:50 GMT
Alistair can have heir: Kieran. Another bastard prince... Kieran wouldn't really do as heir unless Alistair acknowledges him as his blood and even so, he may not be a preferable candidate depending on his behavior, personality and background.
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Post by phoray on Jun 24, 2017 0:36:07 GMT
What is all this heir business. The king is voted in, didn't the Landsmeet show as much?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 0:44:16 GMT
What is all this heir business. The king is voted in, didn't the Landsmeet show as much? He could be, if the succession is not clear, but Landsmeet itself shows a clear preference for a hereditary line on the throne rather than election of a monarch every time. Partisanship and fractions would be considered evil in the period when absolutism/hereditary rule is the star of the show. They want the king of kings. When Dorian speaks of Tevinter, he is demonstrating how the power of Archon is seriously curtailed by the process.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 24, 2017 0:56:28 GMT
Alistair can have heir: Kieran. Another bastard prince... Kieran wouldn't really do as heir unless Alistair acknowledges him as his blood and even so, he may not be a preferable candidate depending on his behavior, personality and background. He's just perfect. Ferelden will be happy with him!
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Post by Pokemario on Jun 24, 2017 7:17:34 GMT
I doubt Kieran would ever be chosen as a ruler. First of all, he's a bastard. Alistair would need to acknowledge him as his son or he would face the same trouble that Alistair himself faces if he's sole ruler. Second of all, he's a mage. And an apostate at that. We've seen how the people of Thedas react when a mage is put into a position of power (if Vivienne is elected as Divine Victoria, it is stated that three revolts follow in quick succession after her coronation). Thirdly, the DAO writers made it clear that they didn't want the Dark Ritual to have any repercussions on the Fereldan throne when they had Morrigan assure our Warden that Kieran would not have seeked out the throne.
That said, it could be a way to make our choices matter. It'll be interesting to see where they go with it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 25, 2017 8:38:04 GMT
Actually the Landsmeet does not necessarily favour the bloodline over the "rule by merit" option. I don't know where this was originally stated, but I read on the old boards that originally the Landsmeet preferred Bryce Cousland to Cailan after Maric disappeared but Bryce was loyal to Cailan and so with the additional support of Eamon, Cailan became king. As we subsequently discover, the Landsmeet were probably right to query his suitability and his reign was only a success as far as it went because he had Anora as his queen.
Then at the Landsmeet we attend the vote can go either way depending on which nobles you have managed to win over to your side and whoever you support. It is only Eamon who seems to have this fixation with the Calenhad line and seems to think it impossible for it to be anyone else. If you play as a male Cousland then the Landsmeet are perfectly willingly to overlook Alistair's claim in favour of your own, in alliance with Anora, which all things considered would probably result in the best outcome for the country in the short term because of their ability as rulers. Then even if they didn't produce an heir there is a good chance Fergus would with a new wife, so the succession could pass to them if they seem fit to take over the role.
Apart from being a bastard, Kieran may not even exist or only as the son of the Warden, which may or may not put him in line to the throne. He is only Alistair's son if the Warden is not male or declines doing the DR with Morrigan but forces him to do so. Otherwise he is variously Cousland's bastard, slightly lower down the pecking order than Alistair's would be (particularly if Cousland does not aim for the throne); the son of Loghain (same comment as for Cousland particularly if Alistair is sole ruler); the son of an elf (no chance) or a dwarf (possible if noble).
This is why Kieran can quietly be forgotten now the writers have even removed the significance of him if he was conceived by the DR. The likelihood is that whoever took the throne at the Landsmeet will not produce an heir and so when they die the Landsmeet will decide on a new monarch from the most suitable candidates available at that time. That would certainly not include the possible bastard son of an apostate witch. Seeing as great change is being prophesised, it is likely that the succession in Ferelden would ultimately prove irrelevant anyway.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 25, 2017 13:28:50 GMT
I doubt Kieran would ever be chosen as a ruler. First of all, he's a bastard. Alistair would need to acknowledge him as his son or he would face the same trouble that Alistair himself faces if he's sole ruler. Second of all, he's a mage. And an apostate at that. We've seen how the people of Thedas react when a mage is put into a position of power (if Vivienne is elected as Divine Victoria, it is stated that three revolts follow in quick succession after her coronation). Thirdly, the DAO writers made it clear that they didn't want the Dark Ritual to have any repercussions on the Fereldan throne when they had Morrigan assure our Warden that Kieran would not have seeked out the throne. That said, it could be a way to make our choices matter. It'll be interesting to see where they go with it. I also don't tink, that Kieran would count as heir, but would interesting... If Leliana's the Divine, the "apostate" term already meaningless if we speak about a mage. If Vivienne's the Divine, the Chantry accepts the Magister's mage's rule. (And she's not capable to force the mages back into her Circles...) Only Cassandra is the problem, but she also not capable of forcing back every mages in the Circles, she also must be compromise: so the apostate term also not really valid anymore. Of course, the acceptance is doubtful...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 16:09:35 GMT
Actually the Landsmeet does not necessarily favour the bloodline over the "rule by merit" option. I don't know where this was originally stated, but I read on the old boards that originally the Landsmeet preferred Bryce Cousland to Cailan after Maric disappeared but Bryce was loyal to Cailan and so with the additional support of Eamon, Cailan became king. As we subsequently discover, the Landsmeet were probably right to query his suitability and his reign was only a success as far as it went because he had Anora as his queen. Then at the Landsmeet we attend the vote can go either way depending on which nobles you have managed to win over to your side and whoever you support. It is only Eamon who seems to have this fixation with the Calenhad line and seems to think it impossible for it to be anyone else. If you play as a male Cousland then the Landsmeet are perfectly willingly to overlook Alistair's claim in favour of your own, in alliance with Anora, which all things considered would probably result in the best outcome for the country in the short term because of their ability as rulers. Then even if they didn't produce an heir there is a good chance Fergus would with a new wife, so the succession could pass to them if they seem fit to take over the role. Apart from being a bastard, Kieran may not even exist or only as the son of the Warden, which may or may not put him in line to the throne. He is only Alistair's son if the Warden is not male or declines doing the DR with Morrigan but forces him to do so. Otherwise he is variously Cousland's bastard, slightly lower down the pecking order than Alistair's would be (particularly if Cousland does not aim for the throne); the son of Loghain (same comment as for Cousland particularly if Alistair is sole ruler); the son of an elf (no chance) or a dwarf (possible if noble). This is why Kieran can quietly be forgotten now the writers have even removed the significance of him if he was conceived by the DR. The likelihood is that whoever took the throne at the Landsmeet will not produce an heir and so when they die the Landsmeet will decide on a new monarch from the most suitable candidates available at that time. That would certainly not include the possible bastard son of an apostate witch. Seeing as great change is being prophesised, it is likely that the succession in Ferelden would ultimately prove irrelevant anyway. I think in the game itself though, you will see the meritocracy leaning only if you play M!Cosuland. In all other cases, Alistair's ascendancy is strongly urged by the game. is Kieran even considered an offspring of either male or more like Bhaalspawn?
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 26, 2017 18:18:01 GMT
I think he is considered a genuine offspring but as Morrigan went off straight after his conception, and in the majority of cases broke all contact with his father, it would be fairly easy for the father and other interested parties to deny parentage. Morrigan's word would not carry the same weight as Arl Eamon in confirming the claim to parentage. Another problem for him though is that he was conceived with the taint. It was that which acted as a beacon for the old god soul, so presumably it would still be there in him and may emerge at some future date. This would even be the case for the ordinary Kieran who was only ever conceived by the Warden with Morrigan. Some people have suggested that an OGB Kieran fathered by Alistair might have some sort of immunity due to his "special" dragon blood but I think that is unlikely as it has never been suggested that Alistair is immune to the effects of the taint so why would his son be?
Alistair is ascendant only if he is made king. He can equally be a drunk hanging out in Kirkwall or a Grey Warden or even dead. In all of these cases it would seem he is removed from the line of accession.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 27, 2017 4:20:37 GMT
Actually the Landsmeet does not necessarily favour the bloodline over the "rule by merit" option. I don't know where this was originally stated, but I read on the old boards that originally the Landsmeet preferred Bryce Cousland to Cailan after Maric disappeared but Bryce was loyal to Cailan and so with the additional support of Eamon, Cailan became king. As we subsequently discover, the Landsmeet were probably right to query his suitability and his reign was only a success as far as it went because he had Anora as his queen. Then at the Landsmeet we attend the vote can go either way depending on which nobles you have managed to win over to your side and whoever you support. It is only Eamon who seems to have this fixation with the Calenhad line and seems to think it impossible for it to be anyone else. If you play as a male Cousland then the Landsmeet are perfectly willingly to overlook Alistair's claim in favour of your own, in alliance with Anora, which all things considered would probably result in the best outcome for the country in the short term because of their ability as rulers. Then even if they didn't produce an heir there is a good chance Fergus would with a new wife, so the succession could pass to them if they seem fit to take over the role. Apart from being a bastard, Kieran may not even exist or only as the son of the Warden, which may or may not put him in line to the throne. He is only Alistair's son if the Warden is not male or declines doing the DR with Morrigan but forces him to do so. Otherwise he is variously Cousland's bastard, slightly lower down the pecking order than Alistair's would be (particularly if Cousland does not aim for the throne); the son of Loghain (same comment as for Cousland particularly if Alistair is sole ruler); the son of an elf (no chance) or a dwarf (possible if noble). This is why Kieran can quietly be forgotten now the writers have even removed the significance of him if he was conceived by the DR. The likelihood is that whoever took the throne at the Landsmeet will not produce an heir and so when they die the Landsmeet will decide on a new monarch from the most suitable candidates available at that time. That would certainly not include the possible bastard son of an apostate witch. Seeing as great change is being prophesised, it is likely that the succession in Ferelden would ultimately prove irrelevant anyway. I think in the game itself though, you will see the meritocracy leaning only if you play M!Cosuland. In all other cases, Alistair's ascendancy is strongly urged by the game. How so? I got the impression that it was only really Eamon pushing Alistair's ascendancy. True, it gives him a lot of screen time to do so, but Anora gets a chance to make her case if you choose to give her one (after it becomes clear that she's an option, anyway), and Alistair explicitly says he doesn't want it. I don't think there's any specific precedent barring a child created in a magical sex ritual from being considered, though that's not to say that the nobles of Ferelden wouldn't happily create one. Though as Gervaise points out, the fact that Morrigan isn't married to her child's father in any World-State seems to pose a problem, judging by the dialogue about the circumstances around Alistair's conception.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 4:35:38 GMT
I think in the game itself though, you will see the meritocracy leaning only if you play M!Cosuland. In all other cases, Alistair's ascendancy is strongly urged by the game. How so? I got the impression that it was only really Eamon pushing Alistair's ascendancy. True, it gives him a lot of screen time to do so, but Anora gets a chance to make her case if you choose to give her one (after it becomes clear that she's an option, anyway), and Alistair explicitly says he doesn't want it. I don't think there's any specific precedent barring a child created in a magical sex ritual from being considered, though that's not to say that the nobles of Ferelden wouldn't happily create one. Though as Gervaise points out, the fact that Morrigan isn't married to her child's father in any World-State seems to pose a problem, judging by the dialogue about the circumstances around Alistair's conception. Okay, so Kieran is so exotic and unprecedented that he would be considered a mortal, rather than an OG offspring. tbh, Anora's self-promotion makes a stronger case for Alistair imo, because she so obviously covets power. Alistair also shows his best side when he claims kingship if Warden prevaricates over Loghain's fate. I felt like the game basically showed me that anything but Alistair is a horrible mistake, even if it cost the Warden her life. Basically, the way the game played out for me, all other choices, Anora and Dark Ritual felt very evil and selfish. It felt like the idea was that Warden dies, leaving the realm to the young, responsible, honourable and quickly maturing Alistair.
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riverdaleswhiteflash
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Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 27, 2017 5:07:39 GMT
How so? I got the impression that it was only really Eamon pushing Alistair's ascendancy. True, it gives him a lot of screen time to do so, but Anora gets a chance to make her case if you choose to give her one (after it becomes clear that she's an option, anyway), and Alistair explicitly says he doesn't want it. I don't think there's any specific precedent barring a child created in a magical sex ritual from being considered, though that's not to say that the nobles of Ferelden wouldn't happily create one. Though as Gervaise points out, the fact that Morrigan isn't married to her child's father in any World-State seems to pose a problem, judging by the dialogue about the circumstances around Alistair's conception. Okay, so Kieran is so exotic and unprecedented that he would be considered a mortal, rather than an OG offspring. It is entirely possible that he's so exotic and unprecedented that they've never needed to bother deciding what such a being counts as. Which would mean that the people who weren't happy with the thought of a bastard succeeding would get to answer your question. Well, yes, it's clear she wants power. She also gets to make clear that she has experience handling it. I don't think the game's trying to push the player either way. I think they provide enough of an argument to make any outcome of the Landsmeet reasonable. Though the most reasonable one is probably the one where Anora gets the power she wants, but gets joined at the hip to her own personal Jiminy Cricket.
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