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Post by Iddy on Jun 26, 2017 11:18:47 GMT
When you arrive at Lothering and the three of you stop to discuss what to do next, there is a moment when Alistair says "We might even want to go to Redcliffe first". Then you have the bartender and Ser Donnal telling you about Arl Eamon's sickness.
But what is the point? After doing Redcliffe, you'd have to immediately do the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest too. Roleplay wise it would be madness to simply leave Eamon in that state and go do other stuff. And the thing is, the Sacred Ashes quest isn't recommendable for the earliest levels.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 11:33:38 GMT
When you arrive at Lothering and the three of you stop to discuss what to do next, there is a moment when Alistair says "We might even want to go to Redcliffe first". Then you have the bartender and Ser Donnal telling you about Arl Eamon's sickness. But what is the point? After doing Redcliffe, you'd have to immediately do the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest too. Roleplay wise it would be madness to simply leave Eamon in that state and go do other stuff. And the thing is, the Sacred Ashes quest isn't recommendable for the earliest levels. I was wondering exactly the same thing now. It makes absolutely no sense to split up Redcliffe and the Urn, so it should really be the last quest. Also, it is safer to suppress the knowledge of Alistair's parentage until you have more allies backing him and you.
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Post by mousestalker on Jun 26, 2017 12:07:53 GMT
I rarely go to Redcliffe first.
My Dalish elves want to re-connect with the other Dalish. If anyone can convince the Dalish to honour an ancient treaty, it would be a Dalish Warden. Best to get the easy recruiting out of the way first.
My dwarven wardens head for Orzammar. My casteless want to rub their new status in the other dwarves face and my noble wardens see it as a chance for redemption.
My mage wardens head for the Circle. It's what they know and for much the same reason as the Dalish, above.
Only the human noble wardens really ever see much sense in going to Redcliffe first.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 26, 2017 12:16:39 GMT
I rarely go to Redcliffe first. My Dalish elves want to re-connect with the other Dalish. If anyone can convince the Dalish to honour an ancient treaty, it would be a Dalish Warden. Best to get the easy recruiting out of the way first. My dwarven wardens head for Orzammar. My casteless want to rub their new status in the other dwarves face and my noble wardens see it as a chance for redemption. My mage wardens head for the Circle. It's what they know and for much the same reason as the Dalish, above. Only the human noble wardens really ever see much sense in going to Redcliffe first. It is impossible to go to Orzammar first, though.
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Post by mousestalker on Jun 26, 2017 12:41:52 GMT
I rarely go to Redcliffe first. My Dalish elves want to re-connect with the other Dalish. If anyone can convince the Dalish to honour an ancient treaty, it would be a Dalish Warden. Best to get the easy recruiting out of the way first. My dwarven wardens head for Orzammar. My casteless want to rub their new status in the other dwarves face and my noble wardens see it as a chance for redemption. My mage wardens head for the Circle. It's what they know and for much the same reason as the Dalish, above. Only the human noble wardens really ever see much sense in going to Redcliffe first. It is impossible to go to Orzammar first, though. I have to disagree. I have done it.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 26, 2017 12:58:21 GMT
It is impossible to go to Orzammar first, though. I have to disagree. I have done it. On casual difficulty?
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Post by mousestalker on Jun 26, 2017 13:11:53 GMT
Nightmare. Solo. With a dwarf commoner rogue.
I've also played nightmare solo with an elf mage and an elf rogue. I have played Origins a lot. Mostly on normal with a team as the dialogues are the most fun for me. The most fun being the all ranger team with spiders as pets and Morrigan shapeshifted into the same. Arachnophilia ftw.
That being said, I did not do it all at once. That quest line is more fun if you intersperse it with the others. So I typically do everything in town up to Jarvia, then go do something else, then complete Jarvia then go do something else, then do each bit in the Deep Roads as its own thing, with other adventures breaking up the claustrophobia.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Jun 26, 2017 14:07:40 GMT
I always go see the elves first.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 26, 2017 16:39:39 GMT
Nightmare. Solo. With a dwarf commoner rogue. Rogues have low defenses and don't do well alone. Describe your strategy and build when you dealt with the mercenaries at the Frostback mountains entrance.
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Post by mousestalker on Jun 26, 2017 17:07:12 GMT
There was a discussion of this on the old boards. It's been a while.
I typically do the two DLC quests before any main quests. I may have stopped off in Denerim as well. Stone Prisoner yields xp and the Helm of Honnleath. Denerim has a bunch of side quests for xp and loot.
As for the bounty hunters, I'm positive I had my first pet (wolf) at that point. Dealing with them involved pulling, taking out the mage first, then the archer and the remaining hunters one at a time. I ran around a lot, because until I could raise my stealth high enough, I always ran around a lot. The bridge provides cover from the archer when needed.
I also chugged potions. The nightmare solo runs were the play throughs where my characters were poorest.
Hope that helps.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 26, 2017 20:59:38 GMT
When you arrive at Lothering and the three of you stop to discuss what to do next, there is a moment when Alistair says "We might even want to go to Redcliffe first". Then you have the bartender and Ser Donnal telling you about Arl Eamon's sickness. But what is the point? After doing Redcliffe, you'd have to immediately do the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest too. Roleplay wise it would be madness to simply leave Eamon in that state and go do other stuff. And the thing is, the Sacred Ashes quest isn't recommendable for the earliest levels. I was wondering exactly the same thing now. It makes absolutely no sense to split up Redcliffe and the Urn, so it should really be the last quest. Also, it is safer to suppress the knowledge of Alistair's parentage until you have more allies backing him and you. Your character can't exactly take into account that Alistair's going to tell you his true parentage at the entrance to Redcliffe when making the decision where to go, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 21:17:19 GMT
I was wondering exactly the same thing now. It makes absolutely no sense to split up Redcliffe and the Urn, so it should really be the last quest. Also, it is safer to suppress the knowledge of Alistair's parentage until you have more allies backing him and you. Your character can't exactly take into account that Alistair's going to tell you his true parentage at the entrance to Redcliffe when making the decision where to go, though. But you can turn around the moment he speaks up.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 26, 2017 22:11:15 GMT
Your character can't exactly take into account that Alistair's going to tell you his true parentage at the entrance to Redcliffe when making the decision where to go, though. But you can turn around the moment he speaks up. Fair point. Still, by the time you hear the information, you're already there. There's allies right there in the nearby castle, and the other groups you can recruit are all days of marching away.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 22:16:49 GMT
But you can turn around the moment he speaks up. Fair point. Still, by the time you hear the information, you're already there. There's allies right there in the nearby castle, and the other groups you can recruit are all days of marching away. Well, that's what I did.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 26, 2017 23:28:27 GMT
Fair point. Still, by the time you hear the information, you're already there. There's allies right there in the nearby castle, and the other groups you can recruit are all days of marching away. Well, that's what I did. I did too, but only because my first playthrough I found Redcliffe too much of a challenge without Wynne.
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Post by mike3207 on Jun 27, 2017 1:58:37 GMT
Alistair does say you must save the mages if you bring up that dialogue at Lothering. I don't recall hearing anything about the elves or dwarves though.
Not a surprise, really. It's a human-centered story.
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Post by Lazarillo on Jun 27, 2017 3:02:44 GMT
I feel like the game pushes you to the Circle Tower first, really. While Alistair is pushing towards Redcliffe and there is talk of the Arl's sickness, the various dialogues and background conversations indicate that the Mage tower is about to be razed, like, very, very soon. Someone, I think it's Morrigan, even mentions something along the lines of "hey we should probably go get the Mages first, or there might not be any Mages to get". Redcliffe is probably portrayed as the next biggest priority after that, but even then, once you complete the whole sequence with Connor, you're told he's pretty much "stable", and indications in the early part of the Urn quest indicate that an awful lot of Eamon's knights have been killed on the quest, so it's not too weird to expect you'll wait to chase after the Urn once you've got a bit more preparation under your belt.
For what it's worth in a retrospective sense, the Codex in DA2 (and possibly DAI...I didn't read it there but I'd be surprised it it's anything but a copy/paste) that details the history of the 5th Blight actually indicates that the Warden did Redcliffe last of all the four initial missions, for that matter. I don't recall where it falls in the Keep narration.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 27, 2017 3:57:19 GMT
Alistair does say you must save the mages if you bring up that dialogue at Lothering. I don't recall hearing anything about the elves or dwarves though. Not a surprise, really. It's a human-centered story. Well in addition to it being a human-centered story, word has somehow gotten out that the mages are in trouble, judging by the fact that two peasants are gossiping about it in Lothering. It's surprising that word got out, but not entirely implausible. Meanwhile the Dalish have no means to communicate their troubles to the outside world (nor have they any incentive to given that they're tolerated at best) and the dwarves only lose their king shortly before you get there (and are trying to keep that quiet so that the humans won't try to find some way to take advantage.) So even assuming that either group has gotten in trouble by the time you reach Lothering, there shouldn't be any channel for you to learn about it through.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 27, 2017 11:43:42 GMT
I feel like the game pushes you to the Circle Tower first, really. While Alistair is pushing towards Redcliffe and there is talk of the Arl's sickness, the various dialogues and background conversations indicate that the Mage tower is about to be razed, like, very, very soon. Someone, I think it's Morrigan, even mentions something along the lines of "hey we should probably go get the Mages first, or there might not be any Mages to get". Redcliffe is probably portrayed as the next biggest priority after that, but even then, once you complete the whole sequence with Connor, you're told he's pretty much "stable", and indications in the early part of the Urn quest indicate that an awful lot of Eamon's knights have been killed on the quest, so it's not too weird to expect you'll wait to chase after the Urn once you've got a bit more preparation under your belt. Except that the gossip dialogue is radiant and they may talk about something else other than the mages. As for Alistair, I've never heard him say that. And if the knights have been killed on the quest, that means Eamon is unlikely to be cured without your help and you can't leave his fate to chance.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 12:48:15 GMT
I just did it two days ago, and I play a Dwarf. My party was Sten, Alistair and Leliana. Nobody mentioned the Tower, Alistair talked of Earl Eamon when I asked him what to do. I went to Mage Tower, got Wynne, switched to Sten, Wynne and Alistair. Received no input on what to do next. Went to Redcliffe, Al told about his parentage, so I turned on my heels and went to get Shale, then went to the Dwarves. No prompts to go to Redcliffe instead or reminders from Alistair.
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Post by mike3207 on Jun 28, 2017 2:56:15 GMT
I feel like the game pushes you to the Circle Tower first, really. While Alistair is pushing towards Redcliffe and there is talk of the Arl's sickness, the various dialogues and background conversations indicate that the Mage tower is about to be razed, like, very, very soon. Someone, I think it's Morrigan, even mentions something along the lines of "hey we should probably go get the Mages first, or there might not be any Mages to get". Redcliffe is probably portrayed as the next biggest priority after that, but even then, once you complete the whole sequence with Connor, you're told he's pretty much "stable", and indications in the early part of the Urn quest indicate that an awful lot of Eamon's knights have been killed on the quest, so it's not too weird to expect you'll wait to chase after the Urn once you've got a bit more preparation under your belt. Except that the gossip dialogue is radiant and they may talk about something else other than the mages. As for Alistair, I've never heard him say that. And if the knights have been killed on the quest, that means Eamon is unlikely to be cured without your help and you can't leave his fate to chance. You need to bring up the news conversation twice with the head templar at Lothering. If you do that the templar will tell you about whats happening with the mages at the circle tower-although it might only happen if you're a mage-not sure on that. If Alistair is in the party he will be pretty emotional about saving the mages. Exact quote-"We must save the mages" with heavy emphasis on must-if memory doesnt fail me. I can leave Eamon's fate to chance-I'd use a dagger to finish the job if it was possible in the game.
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Post by Lazarillo on Jun 28, 2017 3:42:02 GMT
You need to bring up the news conversation twice with the head templar at Lothering. If you do that the templar will tell you about whats happening with the mages at the circle tower-although it might only happen if you're a mage-not sure on that. If Alistair is in the party he will be pretty emotional about saving the mages. Yeah, there's this guy, also either the bartender in Lothering or Bodahn (same VA, I forget who has the line) will mention it. Now granted, in the case of all three of those, they can be skipped or just generally not acknowledged. Still, I'd imagine that a new player would be talking to everyone as much as possible (speaking for myself, at least, there was at least one conversation that I found on my very first play, and then it took me a couple years to find it again and realize that I didn't just dream it up). And a multiple-runs sort of player knows where to find the stuff to justify what they need to. Or that's how I see it, anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 13:34:31 GMT
Heh, I never talk to anyone I don't have to talk to (life's too short), so the only things I will see are the unskippable thingies.
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Post by Finvola on Jun 28, 2017 17:14:26 GMT
I always wondered this too. I recently had this conversation with a friend who is relatively new to the DA series. I don't like going to Redcliffe first for a variety of reasons. If I am a mage myself it's doable early on, but if I'm not a mage I prefer to have Wynne in the lineup. Redcliffe can be quite a challenge if you're just fresh out of Lothering.
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Post by Prince on Jul 2, 2017 10:01:46 GMT
In fact it doesn't. What you have is only Alistair who advice it because he has Eamon there.
The game on itself doesn't advice anything,and in fact going to Redclieffe first it generate a plot hole in the timeline as there you have Jowan who shouldn't be able to mess up Redclieffe is such short frame of time after Ostagar,considering he wouldn't even have the time to meet Loghain in Denerim.
Don't equate what Alistair says to "what the overall game" imply.
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