Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on May 22, 2019 21:27:05 GMT
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Post by mybudgee on May 22, 2019 21:34:01 GMT
Wait, what did people like about Stannis? - Bound by honor, to the point it was crippling (This character was more honorable & had more integrity than arguably Ned Stark) - He was intelligent & tactical (until season 5) - He became trapped in a loveless marriage to Selyse - Similar to Dany, he was convinced he was destined to sit on the Iron Throne - He truly loved his family, even his brothers whom he was constantly at odds with because they had little to no honor in his eyes - Stannis was betrayed by a Religion he begrudgingly accepted into his life (I know this feel) - He gave the Onion Knight respect & trust even after naming him a thief & smuggler ... and punishing him accordingly - His story is a true tragedy, & even though I hate how it ended I still like the character very much
Perhaps after a few more years you'll be able to identify with him a bit (I understand young adults seeing Stannis as an old dickhead, I suppose. LoLmillennials)
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on May 22, 2019 21:41:26 GMT
Wait, what did people like about Stannis? - Bound by honor, to the point it was crippling (This character was more honorable & had more integrity than arguably Ned Stark) - He was intelligent & tactical (until season 5) - He became trapped in a loveless marriage to Selyse - Similar to Dany, he was convinced he was destined to sit on the Iron Throne - He truly loved his family, even his brothers whom he was constantly at odds with because they had little to no honor in his eyes - Stannis was betrayed by a Religion he begrudgingly accepted into his life (I know this feel) - He gave the Onion Knight respect & trust even after naming him a thief & smuggler ... and punishing him accordingly - His story is a true tragedy, & even though I hate how it ended I still like the character very much
Perhaps after a few more years you'll be able to identify with him a bit (I understand young adults seeing Stannis as an old dickhead, I suppose. LoLmillennials) The tv series did him dirty in the end...
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Post by Iakus on May 22, 2019 21:42:57 GMT
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Post by colfoley on May 22, 2019 21:44:24 GMT
Wait, what did people like about Stannis? - Bound by honor, to the point it was crippling (This character was more honorable & had more integrity than arguably Ned Stark) - He was intelligent & tactical (until season 5) - He became trapped in a loveless marriage to Selyse - Similar to Dany, he was convinced he was destined to sit on the Iron Throne - He truly loved his family, even his brothers whom he was constantly at odds with because they had little to no honor in his eyes - Stannis was betrayed by a Religion he begrudgingly accepted into his life (I know this feel) - He gave the Onion Knight respect & trust even after naming him a thief & smuggler ... and punishing him accordingly - His story is a true tragedy, & even though I hate how it ended I still like the character very much
Perhaps after a few more years you'll be able to identify with him a bit (I understand young adults seeing Stannis as an old dickhead, I suppose. LoLmillennials) always comes down to the millennial thing doesn't it? I think the most telling comparison was between him and Dany on why he wouldn't make a good King.
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Post by colfoley on May 22, 2019 21:45:22 GMT
this is literally a man who can't lie to save his life.
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Post by mybudgee on May 22, 2019 21:49:48 GMT
- Bound by honor, to the point it was crippling (This character was more honorable & had more integrity than arguably Ned Stark) - He was intelligent & tactical (until season 5) - He became trapped in a loveless marriage to Selyse - Similar to Dany, he was convinced he was destined to sit on the Iron Throne - He truly loved his family, even his brothers whom he was constantly at odds with because they had little to no honor in his eyes - Stannis was betrayed by a Religion he begrudgingly accepted into his life (I know this feel) - He gave the Onion Knight respect & trust even after naming him a thief & smuggler ... and punishing him accordingly - His story is a true tragedy, & even though I hate how it ended I still like the character very much
Perhaps after a few more years you'll be able to identify with him a bit (I understand young adults seeing Stannis as an old dickhead, I suppose. LoLmillennials) always comes down to the millennial thing doesn't it?
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Post by colfoley on May 22, 2019 22:07:07 GMT
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Post by DomeWing333 on May 22, 2019 22:36:40 GMT
I maintain that, legitimacy of his claim aside, Renly would have been a damn good king.
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Post by Lavochkin on May 22, 2019 23:34:02 GMT
Wait, what did people like about Stannis? He was so drab IMO... It's all hype and headcanon (like how people like the Shepard in their heads than the one in the actual game) that drives a lot of the Stannis fandom. The Stannis on both the show and the books is a political incompetent with no charisma (as stated correctly by Renly) and given his tendency to burn alive his own men and kill his own relatives with black magic without so much as a trial, he isn't fit to be King of a porta-john, let alone of the seven kingdoms. He reminds me of a male Danaerys but without the excuse of of youth and growing up outside of the kingdoms for the lack of political savyness and naive entitlement.
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Post by DomeWing333 on May 22, 2019 23:58:04 GMT
Renly, meanwhile, was politically savvy as hell. Before he was murdered by Stannis's ghost baby, he was in the midst of negotiating the North into an ally by promising justice for Ned and allowing Robb to be King in the North and having dominion over it, so long as he still swore fealty to the Iron Throne. That's the kind of sensible maneuvering that Stannis wouldn't have been capable of as king. He's too rigid in his ways.
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Post by Lavochkin on May 23, 2019 0:16:55 GMT
A lot of problems would've been avoided for the Starks and the North if Ned had just listened to Renly instead of strictly following protocol for line of ascension in favor of Stannis.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on May 23, 2019 0:22:47 GMT
A lot of problems would've been avoided for the Starks and the North if Ned had just listened to Renly instead of strictly following protocol for line of ascension in favor of Stannis. I don't disagree. However the cries of "character development" would actually have been justified in that case.
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Post by Lavochkin on May 23, 2019 0:26:35 GMT
A lot of problems would've been avoided for the Starks and the North if Ned had just listened to Renly instead of strictly following protocol for line of ascension in favor of Stannis. I don't disagree. However the cries of "character development" would actually have been justified in that case. Oh certainly, it makes sense in the context and is true to the character for why Ned made the decision. The same can't be said for some other decisions on the show however.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on May 23, 2019 1:21:42 GMT
A lot of problems would've been avoided for the Starks and the North if Ned had just listened to Renly instead of strictly following protocol for line of ascension in favor of Stannis. A lot of problems could have been avoided at a lot of points. If Ned hadn't confronted Sersi before getting his family out of King's Landing If Catelyn hadn't kidnapped Tyrion If Littlefinger hadn't tried to assassinate Bran Hell, if Robert had survived the boar hunt!
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Post by ScumbagShepurd on May 23, 2019 2:16:00 GMT
The tv series did him dirty in the end... he was like that from the start though. Stannis: "justice hurrdurr" "i ain't forgiving shite" also Stannis: "i dont want the crown. Also, i want the crown so bad that im gonna claim without any proof that my brother's offspring are Cersei/Jaime's incest babies" (I remind you that Stannis DID NOT know about this in the books, Ned's letters never reached him. So Stannis basically just made this all up just to get on the iron chair)."im gonna commit adultery and use black magic to kill my brother to get the crown that i [supposedly] dont want" "Edric, u my nephew? Not for long lmao" "i chopped fingers off of my savior but i aint gonna do shit about the traitorous lords that used to follow my brother cuz i need their cannon fodder" Stannis is a hypocrite to the core. His "justice" is always meant to be served on everybody else but him.
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Post by Onecrazymonkey1 on May 23, 2019 2:29:05 GMT
lol
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Post by Lavochkin on May 23, 2019 2:41:43 GMT
RE: Catelyn, if/when there's another adaptation of the source material, it'd be nice if it had Lady Stoneheart.
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Post by Iakus on May 23, 2019 3:01:52 GMT
The tv series did him dirty in the end... he was like that from the start though. Stannis: "justice hurrdurr" "i ain't forgiving shite" also Stannis: "i dont want the crown. Also, i want the crown so bad that im gonna claim without any proof that my brother's offspring are Cersei/Jaime's incest babies" (I remind you that Stannis DID NOT know about this in the books, Ned's letters never reached him. So Stannis basically just made this all up just to get on the iron chair)."im gonna commit adultery and use black magic to kill my brother to get the crown that i [supposedly] dont want" "Edric, u my nephew? Not for long lmao" "i chopped fingers off of my savior but i aint gonna do shit about the traitorous lords that used to follow my brother cuz i need their cannon fodder" Stannis is a hypocrite to the core. His "justice" is always meant to be served on everybody else but him. In the books at least, Stannis was working with Jon Arryn in his investigations. It is strongly implied he already knew the truth about the incest babies even before Ned figured it out. He even tells Davos that there was proof at Storm's End (Namely Edric). Also in the books, it is Selyse who converted to the Lord of Light. Stannis basically went along with it since Melisandre declared him Azor Ahai. It was only when obstacles to Stannis started being conveniently removed for him that he started taking this stuff seriously. The interesting this about Stannis is, he really didn't want the crown, but he thought it was his duty since he was the legitimate heir. Stannis wasn't a nice man, or even a good one, really, but he was an honorable one, It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother. The Lannister woman gave him horns and made a motley fool of him. She may have murdered him as well, as she murdered Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. For such crimes there must be justice. Starting with Cersei and her abominations. But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean. As Robert should have done after the Trident."
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ScumbagShepurd
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Post by ScumbagShepurd on May 23, 2019 3:23:51 GMT
In the books at least, Stannis was working with Jon Arryn in his investigations. It is strongly implied he already knew the truth about the incest babies even before Ned figured it out. He even tells Davos that there was proof at Storm's End. this might be true but he still had no proof (otherwise he'd tell about it in his urbi et orbi letters). Also in the books, it is Selyse who converted to the Lord of Light. Stannis basically went along with it since Melisandre declared him Azor Ahai. not sure how is this important. Stannis still committed adultery and black magic and fratricide. Why are all his fingers still intact? not to mention that Stannis not believing in his new religion but still following it because it suits his purposes and his pursue of the throne is another proof of his hypocricy. It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law.
the law didn't stop Stannis from rebelling against lawful Targaryen king tho. How many fingers does that amount to? name one time when Stannis' justice applied to him (and by "justice" i mean "i did something bad, here's my punishment and/or atonement", not "oh i don't really want that thing but i'll accept it anyway"), not people around him.
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Post by ScumbagShepurd on May 23, 2019 3:34:51 GMT
Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother. The Lannister woman gave him horns and made a motley fool of him. She may have murdered him as well, as she murdered Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. For such crimes there must be justice. Starting with Cersei and her abominations. But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean. As Robert should have done after the Trident."
eh? Since when do we think that a character is honorable based on their own words? Characters can lie, you know. for example: so Stannis had his suspicions about Robert not having legitimate offspring. Stannis claims to have some proof of it. Yet he does absolutely nothing until Robert's dead. To be precise, he doesn't warn Robert at all. why? Is he scared for his life? He could sent a letter from Dragonstone to Robert. the only real explanation is that Stannis didn't want Robert to know because Robert could just legitimate some of his bastards and name them heirs ahead of Stannis. So Stannis was waiting until Robert died not knowing and then Stannis could claim the throne.
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Post by House Targaryen on May 23, 2019 3:39:12 GMT
Drogon knew where to take Dany.
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Post by colfoley on May 23, 2019 3:43:28 GMT
Just taking a quick head poll on where I would rank the various claimants to the throne I realized with Stannis being so high on the list is just proof of what a shit show Westorosi politics are.
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Post by Iakus on May 23, 2019 3:46:08 GMT
In the books at least, Stannis was working with Jon Arryn in his investigations. It is strongly implied he already knew the truth about the incest babies even before Ned figured it out. He even tells Davos that there was proof at Storm's End. this might be true but he still had no proof (otherwise he'd tell about it in his urbi et orbi letters). Also in the books, it is Selyse who converted to the Lord of Light. Stannis basically went along with it since Melisandre declared him Azor Ahai. not sure how is this important. Stannis still committed adultery and black magic and fratricide. Why are all his fingers still intact? not to mention that Stannis not believing in his new religion but still following it because it suits his purposes and his pursue of the throne is another proof of his hypocricy. It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law.
the law didn't stop Stannis from rebelling against lawful Targaryen king tho. How many fingers does that amount to? name one time when Stannis' justice applied to him (and by "justice" i mean "i did something bad, here's my punishment and/or atonement", not "oh i don't really want that thing but i'll accept it anyway"), not people around him. He had as much proof as Ned did. Enough to scare Cersei He didn't kill Renly himself. And Renly was a traitor to his mind and deserved execution. Didn't stop him from having nightmares about it afterwards, though. Stannis actually confessed to Davos that Robert's Rebellion was a very difficult choice for him. Aerys was his king, but Robert was his brother and liege lord. Divided loyalties. Little wonder he spent most of the war at Storm's End. You don't seem to clear on the medieval concept of a king, are you?
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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Post by House Targaryen on May 23, 2019 3:47:40 GMT
Wait, what did people like about Stannis? He was so drab IMO... It's all hype and headcanon (like how people like the Shepard in their heads than the one in the actual game) that drives a lot of the Stannis fandom. The Stannis on both the show and the books is a political incompetent with no charisma (as stated correctly by Renly) and given his tendency to burn alive his own men and kill his own relatives with black magic without so much as a trial, he isn't fit to be King of a porta-john, let alone of the seven kingdoms. He reminds me of a male Danaerys but without the excuse of of youth and growing up outside of the kingdoms for the lack of political savyness and naive entitlement. I was in the Stannis camp until he sacrificed his daughter. Then the scum deserved all the failures coming his way.
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