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Post by Lazarillo on Jul 3, 2017 3:53:21 GMT
Weird question I've been thinking about, while also trying to come up with a third characterization for Hawke for a new playthrough. The game is dichotomous in a lot of ways, so coming up with the first two is pretty easy, but as I've been thinking this through, I realized, here I am trying to think of a character concept for a new Mage Hawke, when the one I already have is vaguely...Athena-esque. He sprung, fully formed, from my mind into the prologue of Dragon Age and I'm not sure who he was before that. My non-Mage was a sort of vigilante/mercenary sort, but that's a little harder to manage when your primary skills involve shooting fire it at stuff.
Hawke's dialogue implies that s/he no longer was living in Lothering when it was destroyed, and went back mostly to rescue the family, but what was s/he up to during that time? Living hippy style in the woods like Aneirin? A member of the Mage's Collective?
DA2 is all about telling us who Hawke is but who was Hawke, before that, to you?
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Post by Catilina on Jul 3, 2017 12:21:39 GMT
Mercenary. Every Hawke, even the warrior/rogue. This is the best, self-evident background choice, because Hawke seems experienced fighter. But not excluded, that a simple craftman or farmer, for hide his/her abilities, or mercenary (occasionally) AND craftman/farmer...
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Post by Lazarillo on Jul 4, 2017 0:29:19 GMT
I just feel like it's a lot harder to be a free Apostate and still work among a Merc group. Then again, the Valo-Kas in Inquisition can potentially have a "Saarebas" openly working for them...although that, as well, may only be out in the open after the Templars rebelled, so maybe not? Makes me want to try a Qunari-Mage Quizzie now, just to see if it comes up.
Back to Hawke, perhaps I just need to rethink one or both of my previous Hawkes, as much as this new one, to find a "different" personality.
Hawke #1 (still my favorite Hawke) was a female Warrior who was a saint-for-hire who didn't think much about mages, outside of "Circles are probably helpful for Mages that need to learn about their magic" and "but my sister knows how to do magic responsibly so put her in a Circle and I'll gut you" (leading to lots of angst at the end of Act I, when Bethany put herself there, more or less). Romanced Anders 'cause she dug the raggedy vigilante vibe, but went off the deep end after All That Remains. Got angry at all the irresponsible blood magic going around, started kicking everyone's butt, joined forces with Meredith, and ultimately only calmed down when Meredith tried to kill Bethany. Personality was mixed, moving from mostly green to mostly red, with a splash of purple near the beginning/middle.
Hawke #2 was a male Mage who didn't give a crap about much at all. He was just super chill, didn't really worry about anything. He rivalmanced Merrill because d'aw she's totes adorbs but holycrapbloodmagicbad. Sided with Orsino and the other mages mostly only just because he was a Mage. When everything went to crap, still just sorta "life goes on". Almost entirely purple.
I'm thinking I might try to remake him as a bit more of an active renegade (ala Anders), and have this new Hawke #3 sorta take his place in terms of outlook and personality. All I know is I wanna do the Sebastian rivalmance with the new Hawke so that she can be a Disney Princess. Or something.
The problem with going full renegade Mage for me in any playthrough though is I really dislike the Rival take on Fenris. He just doesn't work for me as a character if he and Hawke don't get along.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 4, 2017 1:01:23 GMT
I just feel like it's a lot harder to be a free Apostate and still work among a Merc group. Then again, the Valo-Kas in Inquisition can potentially have a "Saarebas" openly working for them...although that, as well, may only be out in the open after the Templars rebelled, so maybe not? Makes me want to try a Qunari-Mage Quizzie now, just to see if it comes up. Back to Hawke, perhaps I just need to rethink one or both of my previous Hawkes, as much as this new one, to find a "different" personality. Hawke #1 (still my favorite Hawke) was a female Warrior who was a saint-for-hire who didn't think much about mages, outside of "Circles are probably helpful for Mages that need to learn about their magic" and "but my sister knows how to do magic responsibly so put her in a Circle and I'll gut you" (leading to lots of angst at the end of Act I, when Bethany put herself there, more or less). Romanced Anders 'cause she dug the raggedy vigilante vibe, but went off the deep end after All That Remains. Got angry at all the irresponsible blood magic going around, started kicking everyone's butt, joined forces with Meredith, and ultimately only calmed down when Meredith tried to kill Bethany. Personality was mixed, moving from mostly green to mostly red, with a splash of purple near the beginning/middle. Hawke #2 was a male Mage who didn't give a crap about much at all. He was just super chill, didn't really worry about anything. He rivalmanced Merrill because d'aw she's totes adorbs but holycrapbloodmagicbad. Sided with Orsino and the other mages mostly only just because he was a Mage. When everything went to crap, still just sorta "life goes on". Almost entirely purple. I'm thinking I might try to remake him as a bit more of an active renegade (ala Anders), and have this new Hawke #3 sorta take his place in terms of outlook and personality. All I know is I wanna do the Sebastian rivalmance with the new Hawke so that she can be a Disney Princess. Or something.
The problem with going full renegade Mage for me in any playthrough though is I really dislike the Rival take on Fenris. He just doesn't work for me as a character if he and Hawke don't get along. You can build a friendship with Fenris even as an Anders-kind mage. I have a mage Hawke in romance with him (sarcastic/aggressive), was easy as pie, no cheat, no lies, no compromise... I have a warrior, he's nice with his friends, and sarcastic/aggressive with everyone else. A hotheaded guy, who supported Anders wholeheartedly, and protect him from everything. When the Templars took Bethany to the Circle, he swore, no matter the cost, he will take her out of the Circle. He was a bit crazy. Openly confronted everyone. But for his friends he did everything. At the end, Fenris told him, that he wants to fight his side in the future. This was so nice! And recently started an aggressive/sarcastic cold bastard, planned Anders-romance, of course, friendship, I wanted to rivalry everyone except him, but I saw, that Fenris simply admire him. Never ever was so hard to avoid to get friendship from him... So: I changed my mind: this will be a nice weird friendship, based on their direct nature, and some mutual respect. So: friendship with Fenris is easy, and believable with hard-line pro-mage. Its very good, because I don't play at Templar side. I have one Templar-end but I felt uncomfortable and needed a good reason for it. This was Templar Carver. This Hawke was a diplomatic-helpful, who wanted compliance to everyone, to protect Kirkwall, and didn't want to fight against Carver. Ugh, was a sad story. He betrayed his fellows, his cause (he wanted to support the mages), and his friend. For nothing. Okay, for Carver. (I have only two Hawke in rivalry with Fenris: one romance, and one non-romance. Both were sarcastic based and impatient. I never killed him.) Anyway, I like your Hawkes' changing personality. I also have ideas for it. Hawke's personality not that limited as seems at the first sight.
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Post by eriador117 on Jul 6, 2017 12:03:49 GMT
You can still play a mage Hawke be pro-mage and be friends with Fenris. I always romance him on the friendship path, no cheats or anything. Just deciding which quests I should bring him on or leave him at home for that one I always imagined my mage Hawke to be a healer before the Blight and escaping from Lothering. My head canon is that Malcolm wanted to be a healer too, but the Circle made him become a battle mage instead. He didn't want that for his son, so he found some healer apostate somewhere to help teach Hawke the healing magics etc.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 6, 2017 12:14:53 GMT
You can still play a mage Hawke be pro-mage and be friends with Fenris. I always romance him on the friendship path, no cheats or anything. Just deciding which quests I should bring him on or leave him at home for that one I always imagined my mage Hawke to be a healer before the Blight and escaping from Lothering. My head canon is that Malcolm wanted to be a healer too, but the Circle made him become a battle mage instead. He didn't want that for his son, so he found some healer apostate somewhere to help teach Hawke the healing magics etc. You can bring Fenris everywhere, including the Mage-savior quest, may you get rivalry for some decisions, but you can balance them with others – for example with some aggressive/direct behavior). Feynriel's quest, Act 1:
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eriador117
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by eriador117 on Jul 6, 2017 13:32:17 GMT
You can still play a mage Hawke be pro-mage and be friends with Fenris. I always romance him on the friendship path, no cheats or anything. Just deciding which quests I should bring him on or leave him at home for that one I always imagined my mage Hawke to be a healer before the Blight and escaping from Lothering. My head canon is that Malcolm wanted to be a healer too, but the Circle made him become a battle mage instead. He didn't want that for his son, so he found some healer apostate somewhere to help teach Hawke the healing magics etc. You can bring Fenris everywhere, including the Mage-savior quest, may you get rivalry for some decisions, but you can balance them with others – for example with some aggressive/direct behavior). Feynriel's quest, Act 1: Yes, he gets friendship points if you don't let the slavers get away. Makes sense for Fenris, really.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 11:02:59 GMT
I have 2 mages. One is the classic Anders loving, Templar hating, militant Hawke that I think many of us have.
The other is more interesting. I based her on Wynne, a kind, intelligent mage who was sick of hiding and running from the Templars. In a bid to keep Bethany and her family safe she decided to go to the tower and hand herself in, thinking that she would actually thrive there teaching other mages and learning herself. Just being honest about her magic, not hiding it, and being with others like her. However as she started out to the tower she learnt it had been annulled. She was devastated, made her way back to Lothering only to find it being attacked by darkspawn.
She decided to keep to her plan in Kirkwall, going to the circle once her family was safe and well. That took far longer than she thought and then of course she saw how cruel it was, so she stayed an apostate. She fell in love with Anders but couldn't agree with his choices over Justice, insisting he was possessed and trying to save him. Once she knew he'd never listen she distanced herself from him only to fall for Fenris.
By the end of the game she'd been pro-mage the whole time, however she agreed with Aveline that the city was in peril and sided with Meredith in the end. It broke her heart but she truly believed the mages had gone too far. I used the console to give Anders 100% rivalry so that she could save him and get him to work with her.
It was a really great way to play a mage, made a nice change.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 7, 2017 12:18:39 GMT
I have 2 mages. One is the classic Anders loving, Templar hating, militant Hawke that I think many of us have. The other is more interesting. I based her on Wynne, a kind, intelligent mage who was sick of hiding and running from the Templars. In a bid to keep Bethany and her family safe she decided to go to the tower and hand herself in, thinking that she would actually thrive there teaching other mages and learning herself. Just being honest about her magic, not hiding it, and being with others like her. However as she started out to the tower she learnt it had been annulled. She was devastated, made her way back to Lothering only to find it being attacked by darkspawn. She decided to keep to her plan in Kirkwall, going to the circle once her family was safe and well. That took far longer than she thought and then of course she saw how cruel it was, so she stayed an apostate. She fell in love with Anders but couldn't agree with his choices over Justice, insisting he was possessed and trying to save him. Once she knew he'd never listen she distanced herself from him only to fall for Fenris. By the end of the game she'd been pro-mage the whole time, however she agreed with Aveline that the city was in peril and sided with Meredith in the end. It broke her heart but she truly believed the mages had gone too far. I used the console to give Anders 100% rivalry so that she could save him and get him to work with her. It was a really great way to play a mage, made a nice change. Yes, this is a very interesting standpoint, from an apostate. Just as Wynne's (in Wynne's case we can speak about a massive Stockholm Syndrome... I like Wynne, but I felt sorry for her every time, but why would have an apostate a Stockholm Syndrome?). This decision to go in the Circle for keep the family safe, is Bethany's decision, if Hawke leaves her at home. The difference is: Bethany never accepted the Circle (she's not an idiot), she only didn't want to be a burden anymore. The most beautiful thing about this decision, that mage Hawke, who were pro-mage at the finish supports the Templars, is that he betrays his fellows, later the Templars betray him/her, and expel out of Kirkwall... I like this fate. The mages went too far? The mages inside the Circle, whom Meredith wants to slaughter? Meredith was the biggest threat to the city, this was clear: Hawke can't support her without a doubt, whatever Anders and the blood mages did. Meredith jeopardized the Kirkwall with her paranoia. Only acceptable reason to siding with the Templars is Carver. I felt very uncomfortable, and I never was able to find a logical reason for it. And I never was able to force Anders to turn against his cause, rather killed him. Another reason to kill him instead: in this mind state he's very unstable and really dangerous. BUT: a reason to let him alive, that we don't know, what happened with Justice/Vengeance? Anders has the experience to handle him... but another host? If he already turned into a demon? So... what is the better solution?
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First of the Dalish
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Post by Pokemario on Jul 8, 2017 20:38:00 GMT
Hawke's dialogue implies that s/he no longer was living in Lothering when it was destroyed What? When?
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Post by phoray on Jul 9, 2017 12:29:22 GMT
yeah, I'd like to hear the context.
Even my rogue HAwkes, I thought was just bumming off mom and helping round the farm and then there is the aggressive response to Flemeth at the start.
"And what does your King think of you running off to Kirkwall?"
"He's dead, and Ostagar overwhelmed. We had to leave it to tsave the family." Or some such. This was my 2nd or 3rd rogue Hawke and I was like, WE were in the army with Aveline and Carver? NEWS TO ME.
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Post by Lazarillo on Jul 9, 2017 15:37:09 GMT
What? When? There are lines with Aveline and Fenris in Act 1. To Aveline, s/he mentions s/he "only went back to Lothering to fight" and to Fenris (this one being optional) that Lothering didn't really feel like home anymore anyway because s/he had "been away for so long". Even my rogue HAwkes, I thought was just bumming off mom and helping round the farm and then there is the aggressive response to Flemeth at the start. "And what does your King think of you running off to Kirkwall?" "He's dead, and Ostagar overwhelmed. We had to leave it to tsave the family." Or some such. This was my 2nd or 3rd rogue Hawke and I was like, WE were in the army with Aveline and Carver? NEWS TO ME. It depends a little on class for this one; for Mage!Hawke, Carver's couple little references to Ostagar use "me/I" in them, but for the short time he's alive for a Non-Mage, they we "us/we", which definitely seem to imply that even a Rogue Hawke was fighting with the king for at least a while.
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Post by Sah291 on Jul 10, 2017 19:52:55 GMT
Hmm, well Morrigan was kind of my inspiration for my mage Hawke, at least in terms of attitude about the Cricle and Chantry...in contrast to Bethany, who I think really tried to be a good Andrastian and to fit in more or less. Also in contrast to Bethany who wanted to be normal, I think mage Hawke embraced being a mage. It says in the codex if you have a mage Hawke, that Beth looked up to her brother/sister, so in that scenario Beth was maybe a little bit more bold with her magic and wanting to embrace her skills the same way (fits with her jumping out front to attack in the prologue). Hawke probably also had stepped up as her mentor in magic after their father died, so of course her death would have had a huge impact, and I think Hawke would have really blamed himself for it.
As far as what Hawke did before arriving in Kirkwall, I think probably just odd jobs, to earn money and keeping a low profile. I think it's likely he/she would have fallen into Malcolm's footsteps as a merc or something along those lines, so it makes sense Hawke would excel at those sorts of jobs when they arrived in the city. Since Carver feels like he was living in the shadow, maybe Hawke tried to take on the more shady or risky jobs alone to protect the family so Carver wouldn't have to, making Carver think he wasn't good enough...or maybe Hawke literally dragged him around everywhere as Templar protection, making him feel like he didn't have his own life. Probably depends on how Hawke reacts to taking him into the deep roads.
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Post by Sifr on Jul 14, 2017 8:44:04 GMT
I like to imagine the Hawke family lived on a small farm or freehold outside of Lothering, raising livestock and growing crops to sell in the village market. In addition to farming, Hawke could have done odd-jobs to raise money, as well as travelling to nearby villages as a trader or caravan guard.
After being introduced to Duke Prosper's Chasind guard in MOTA, Hawke can mention they helped their father trade with the Chasind on the rare occasions their people ventured that far north. Headcanon-wise, it's fun to picture Morrigan as one of the Chasind they might have traded with, as we know that she visited Lothering countless times during her youth.
As for Warrior/Rogue Hawke, I've always suspected that the only reason they were present at Ostagar was to keep an eye on Carver, after he had impulsively signed up to try to make a name for himself.
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Post by HYR on Jul 15, 2017 4:04:08 GMT
Huh. I had no idea about that dialogue. Up to this point I just imagined they were living with the rest of the family at home living an ordinary life, mage focused on his/her own magic and warrior or rogue in the Fereldan army. If those lines are not canon, though (and they don't seem to be), then I'm just going to disregard them and stick with what I was doing.
Truth be told, I don't feel a need to flesh out their backstory too much in this game because I feel like the game is a big Origin story anyway. That is, life begins for Hawke when fleeing the Blight.
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Post by fylimar on Jul 15, 2017 7:12:55 GMT
I always thought, my Hawke would try to see something of the world, so she accompanied a decent mercenary group (someone like the chargers, being easygoing like herself)for a while. And when she heard of Ostagar (maybe the group was even on it's way there), she rushed home to look after her family. That's at least Jyotis story.
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