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Post by shechinah on Jul 21, 2017 15:48:06 GMT
I would love to see Hawk and crew in DA4. They have been my favorites of all the DA games. I like them to but I don't want them returning. Just like I don't want the Warden to return. their time is over I wouldn't want the inquisitor to return as well but that seems highly unlikely I'm of the same opinion but I do keep one exception which is character relevancy to plot. If a former protagonist holds a personal relevancy to the plot that is unsolved then I see it their return in a cameo, preferably playable, as an acceptable exception. An example of character relevancy is Hawke due to personal involvement with Corypheus. Another example of character relevancy is the Inquisitor due to personal involvement with Solas. I'm of similar opinions when it comes to cameos where I do not want to see cameos that are not supported by characterization or plot. I don't want cameos that are only there to be fanservice and clashes with plausibility. An example is Fenris who I don't see as having reason for going to the Tevinter Imperium due to his wanted status there, his dislike for the place and his inability to remain incognito (doe to his lyrium tattoo's visibility through clothing). Additionally, I'd also see it as a step back as I felt a part of his story arc's conclusion was that now he could settle down in peace and start anew without worrying about persecution.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 21, 2017 16:18:48 GMT
They took the expansion and worked it into Inquisition. So yes, Hawke (who was supposed to be captured by the Inquisition at the end of the expansion) was originally part of the story. I'm not sure why you're having such a hard time believing this, it's obvious Hawke's role was re-worked then removed in this process. Having a larger role is not the same as a returning protagonist (which people claim Hawke was meant to be). Saying Hawke was supposed to be the Inquisitor like it's a fact is misleading. No, it's not misleading. Again, you're acting like Hawke being the protag for Inquisition is some far out weirdo idea. It's not. I've cited sources (which you admittedly didn't even bother to read) who said he was originally slated to be the new Inquisitor (which is clearly supported by the ending of DA2, where both Cass and the Nightingale are looking for Hawke). You've cited nothing to support anything in opposition to that idea.
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Post by tacsear on Jul 21, 2017 16:19:50 GMT
I like them to but I don't want them returning. Just like I don't want the Warden to return. their time is over I wouldn't want the inquisitor to return as well but that seems highly unlikely I'm of the same opinion but I do keep one exception which is character relevancy to plot. If a former protagonist holds a personal relevancy to the plot that is unsolved then I see it their return in a cameo, preferably playable, as an acceptable exception. An example of character relevancy is Hawke due to personal involvement with Corypheus. Another example of character relevancy is the Inquisitor due to personal involvement with Solas. I'm of similar opinions when it comes to cameos where I do not want to see cameos that are not supported by characterization or plot. I don't want cameos that are only there to be fanservice and clashes with plausibility. An example is Fenris who I don't see as having reason for going to the Tevinter Imperium due to his wanted status there, his dislike for the place and his inability to remain incognito (doe to his lyrium tattoo's visibility through clothing). Additionally, I'd also see it as a step back as I felt a part of his story arc's conclusion was that now he could settle down in peace and start anew without worrying about persecution. Yeah exactly. But I would rather the IQ to remain somewhat of a myth at the first part of the game. Like we meet agents and stuff but IQ should feel like s/he is running things from the shadows and do not appear until something big happens. Same goes for companions, I understand if Dorian plays a huge role in DA4 but if you try to squeeze Sera in, it would look ridicilous
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Post by shechinah on Jul 21, 2017 16:28:06 GMT
Yeah exactly. But I would rather the IQ to remain somewhat of a myth at the first part of the game. Like we meet agents and stuff but IQ should feel like s/he is running things from the shadows and do not appear until something big happens. Same goes for companions, I understand if Dorian plays a huge role in DA4 but if you try to squeeze Sera in, it would look ridicilous That's how I would prefer it and what I think would make the most sense since the Inquisitor cannot take a field role as before because it'd make it much easier for, amongst others, Solas' spies to track them. To me, it definitely seems like Dorian has been set up to play a role in DA4 as in all of his endings, he always returns to the Tevinter Imperium which is where DA4 is heavily implied to take place at.
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Post by Zemgus on Jul 21, 2017 16:35:43 GMT
Having a larger role is not the same as a returning protagonist (which people claim Hawke was meant to be). Saying Hawke was supposed to be the Inquisitor like it's a fact is misleading. No, it's not misleading. Again, you're acting like Hawke being the protag for Inquisition is some far out weirdo idea. It's not. I've cited sources (which you admittedly didn't even bother to read) who said he was originally slated to be the new Inquisitor (which is clearly supported by the ending of DA2, where both Cass and the Nightingale are looking for Hawke). You've cited nothing to support anything in opposition to that idea. Then why didn't you quote that part? Old BSN is gone and destroyed, so the old post from one of the devs that I remember reading that very clearly stated that they had all along planned to have a new protagonist for DA3 (if I remember correctly) is nowhere to be found now.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 21, 2017 16:43:49 GMT
No, it's not misleading. Again, you're acting like Hawke being the protag for Inquisition is some far out weirdo idea. It's not. I've cited sources (which you admittedly didn't even bother to read) who said he was originally slated to be the new Inquisitor (which is clearly supported by the ending of DA2, where both Cass and the Nightingale are looking for Hawke). You've cited nothing to support anything in opposition to that idea. Then why didn't you quote that part? Not an argument. I'll be here when you decide to provide one.
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Post by Zemgus on Jul 21, 2017 16:52:37 GMT
Then why didn't you quote that part? Not an argument. I'll be here when you decide to provide one. It was a question and I've yet to see a direct quote from Gaider or anyone else that says "Hawke was supposed to be the Inquisitor." Until then...
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 21, 2017 16:57:12 GMT
Not an argument. I'll be here when you decide to provide one. It was a question and I've yet to see a direct quote from Gaider or anyone else that says "Hawke was supposed to be the Inquisitor." Until then... If you're too lazy to read what I linked, I can play that game and be too lazy to quote it all for you. Also not following your logic... Yes, the original plan for the expansion (which was rolled into Inquisition) was to have Hawke sought after and captured by the Inquisition so that he... wouldn't... be... the... Inquisitor at the end. Makes sense.
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Post by Zemgus on Jul 21, 2017 17:02:26 GMT
It was a question and I've yet to see a direct quote from Gaider or anyone else that says "Hawke was supposed to be the Inquisitor." Until then... If you're too lazy to read what I linked, I can play that game and be too lazy to quote it all for you. Also not following your logic... Yes, the original plan for the expansion (which was rolled into Inquisition) was to have Hawke sought after and captured by the Inquisition so that he... wouldn't... be... the... Inquisitor at the end. Makes sense. I think it's lazy to post a link without quoting the very thing we are discussing here. If there even is such a quote. If the plan for the expansion was to end with Hawke being captured by the Inquisition, then anything could've happened to Hawke between the expansion and DAI. Killed at the conclave, escaped, investigating the disappearance of the wardens with the Warden Ally...
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 21, 2017 17:05:00 GMT
If you're too lazy to read what I linked, I can play that game and be too lazy to quote it all for you. Also not following your logic... Yes, the original plan for the expansion (which was rolled into Inquisition) was to have Hawke sought after and captured by the Inquisition so that he... wouldn't... be... the... Inquisitor at the end. Makes sense. I think it's lazy to post a link without quoting the very thing we are discussing here. If there even is such a quote. If the plan for the expansion was to end with Hawke being captured by the Inquisition, then anything could've happened to Hawke between the expansion and DAI. Killed at the conclave, escaped, investigating the disappearance of the wardens with the Warden Ally... Except that Cass tells us they were looking for Hawke to lead the Inquisition.
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Post by Zemgus on Jul 21, 2017 17:15:47 GMT
I think it's lazy to post a link without quoting the very thing we are discussing here. If there even is such a quote. If the plan for the expansion was to end with Hawke being captured by the Inquisition, then anything could've happened to Hawke between the expansion and DAI. Killed at the conclave, escaped, investigating the disappearance of the wardens with the Warden Ally... Except that Cass tells us they were looking for Hawke to lead the Inquisition. Cass also says they were looking for the Warden for the same thing. Does that mean that the Warden was also supposed to be the protagonist of DAI?
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 21, 2017 17:21:15 GMT
Except that Cass tells us they were looking for Hawke to lead the Inquisition. Cass also says they were looking for the Warden for the same thing. Does that mean that the Warden was also supposed to be the protagonist of DAI? If there were an expansion pack (that got turned into Inquisition) that involved the Warden being sought after and captured by the Inquisition, then yes. But since that isn't the case...
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Post by Zemgus on Jul 21, 2017 17:26:09 GMT
Cass also says they were looking for the Warden for the same thing. Does that mean that the Warden was also supposed to be the protagonist of DAI? If there were an expansion pack (that got turned into Inquisition) that involved the Warden being sought after and captured by the Inquisition, then yes. But since that isn't the case... That's too bad. My Warden surely would've been an excellent Inquisitor. More evil dialogue options & choices and blood magic specialization! Oh, what could've been! By the way only parts of the expansion got turned into Inquisition. Not the entire thing.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jul 21, 2017 17:27:35 GMT
If there were an expansion pack (that got turned into Inquisition) that involved the Warden being sought after and captured by the Inquisition, then yes. But since that isn't the case... That's too bad. My Warden surely would've been an excellent Inquisitor. More evil dialogue options & choices and blood magic specialization! Oh, what could've been! By the way only parts of the expansion got turned into Inquisition. Not the entire thing. Yes, the parts that line up with what Cass says later in Inquisition... that they were searching for Hawke to lead the Inquisition, which is what happens in the expansion. Funny how that works.
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Post by Zemgus on Jul 21, 2017 17:48:22 GMT
That's too bad. My Warden surely would've been an excellent Inquisitor. More evil dialogue options & choices and blood magic specialization! Oh, what could've been! By the way only parts of the expansion got turned into Inquisition. Not the entire thing. Yes, the parts that line up with what Cass says later in Inquisition... that they were searching for Hawke to lead the Inquisition, which is what happens in the expansion. Funny how that works. Yes very funny. Still waiting for that quote.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Jul 22, 2017 3:29:16 GMT
Nice shilling. I hope most people that view your vids use Adblock and aren't your patreons.
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Post by dawnold on Jul 22, 2017 3:40:17 GMT
Yeah I was kinda sad when I watched the part that said that our Inquisitor won't be the main protag in the next game. Formed some really close bonds with all of the companions, it's gonna be hard to say good-bye to most of them.... On the bright side, Dorian might be one of the companions in the next game but it would've been more lovely if we played as the Inquisitor to reunite with him instead of meeting him for the 2nd time as a new person.
If the Inquisitor does get a guest role in the next game, do you guys think they will get a "magical" or mechanical arm? Or maybe they will just wield one-handed weapons if they have a role similar to Hawke's. It would've been cool if each Inquisitor has a different type of arm depending on their class: warriors gets a bazooka, mages get a flamethrower, rogues get a grappling hook. But I feel that might be harder on the gameplay designers...
Man... I just wish our Inquisitor could say good-bye to our friends one last time instead of dying alone like Hawke (in the Fade) or meeting a ominous fate in wisehaupt (the warden hq but I can't remember the spelling).
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Post by naughtynomad on Jul 23, 2017 4:29:17 GMT
It does not necessarily mean that the Inquisitor will be completely absent in Dragon Age 4: it merely means that the Inquisitor is unlikely to be the main protagonist. I'm keeping to hoping until further notice. So they get the NPC treatment? No thank you. They've already ruined two protagonists by doing that. Two protagonists got the NPC treatment? No, the Warden was never in Inquisition. And honestly I think that's the bigger shame. The Fade "choice" was clearly originally intended to be between Hawke and the Warden. I'm still sad they decided not to do that. Because that would have been the one and only truly gut-wrenching choices of the game.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 23, 2017 5:20:27 GMT
So they get the NPC treatment? No thank you. They've already ruined two protagonists by doing that. Two protagonists got the NPC treatment? No, the Warden was never in Inquisition. And honestly I think that's the bigger shame. The Fade "choice" was clearly originally intended to be between Hawke and the Warden. I'm still sad they decided not to do that. Because that would have been the one and only truly gut-wrenching choices of the game. Hawke in DAI, and Revan in SWTOR.
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Post by naughtynomad on Jul 23, 2017 5:25:02 GMT
Hawke in DAI, and Revan in SWTOR. Oh, right... The Revan NPC was a crime. Making him into a villain just because they couldn't come up with a better idea was... thoughtless. I think they just decided most of their current playerbase never played KOTOR, so wouldn't mind how they treated the character, and if they used Revan's name in the expansion a bunch of fans would buy it.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 23, 2017 9:27:43 GMT
Yeah I was kinda sad when I watched the part that said that our Inquisitor won't be the main protag in the next game. Formed some really close bonds with all of the companions, it's gonna be hard to say good-bye to most of them.... On the bright side, Dorian might be one of the companions in the next game but it would've been more lovely if we played as the Inquisitor to reunite with him instead of meeting him for the 2nd time as a new person. If the Inquisitor does get a guest role in the next game, do you guys think they will get a "magical" or mechanical arm? Or maybe they will just wield one-handed weapons if they have a role similar to Hawke's. It would've been cool if each Inquisitor has a different type of arm depending on their class: warriors gets a bazooka, mages get a flamethrower, rogues get a grappling hook. But I feel that might be harder on the gameplay designers... Man... I just wish our Inquisitor could say good-bye to our friends one last time instead of dying alone like Hawke (in the Fade) or meeting a ominous fate in wisehaupt (the warden hq but I can't remember the spelling). If the Inquisitor come back, as I know Bioware's stories, we should choose between Dorian and Inquisitor, which one be sacrificed, which one will live.
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Post by naughtynomad on Jul 23, 2017 14:24:58 GMT
Gaider is gone... And while I respect the man for the work he did to start the franchise. I did not like the direction he seemed to be taking it. Retconning the darkspawn was a terrible choice which did a lot of damage. I'm hoping with him gone, things can get back on track to what they originally were. Don't shy away from dark themes and try to be too pc.
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Post by tacsear on Jul 23, 2017 15:46:39 GMT
Yeah I was kinda sad when I watched the part that said that our Inquisitor won't be the main protag in the next game. Formed some really close bonds with all of the companions, it's gonna be hard to say good-bye to most of them.... On the bright side, Dorian might be one of the companions in the next game but it would've been more lovely if we played as the Inquisitor to reunite with him instead of meeting him for the 2nd time as a new person. If the Inquisitor does get a guest role in the next game, do you guys think they will get a "magical" or mechanical arm? Or maybe they will just wield one-handed weapons if they have a role similar to Hawke's. It would've been cool if each Inquisitor has a different type of arm depending on their class: warriors gets a bazooka, mages get a flamethrower, rogues get a grappling hook. But I feel that might be harder on the gameplay designers... Man... I just wish our Inquisitor could say good-bye to our friends one last time instead of dying alone like Hawke (in the Fade) or meeting a ominous fate in wisehaupt (the warden hq but I can't remember the spelling). If the Inquisitor come back, as I know Bioware's stories, we should choose between Dorian and Inquisitor, which one be sacrificed, which one will live. Oh god please no
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 23, 2017 16:07:08 GMT
They sure as hell better not make us choose between Dorian and the Inquisitor considering my canon run has my Lavellan romancing Dorian. I had angst enough with the Solas romance thank you very much and it took the Dorian romance to lift my mood after it. After my first Solas romance run I very nearly didn't want to play again it made me so depressed and that was before Trespasser. So personally I'd rather they left the fate of my Inquisitor in my own head rather than have them killed off on screen, although I suppose that seeking those responsible for their death could be the motivation for the protagonist.
I still maintain that whilst Trespasser tied off the story of our PC as INQUISITOR, that is leader of that organisation, it did not resolve the story for them as a character, seeing as they specifically have them directing the efforts against Solas at the end. So it is more likely they will be there in the background, a bit like TIM in ME2, giving ideas and leads about where the new PC will head to next, whilst Dorian will probably be the main contact on the ground in Tevinter giving advice on how to deal with Tevinter society, etc, but again not playing an active role, being more like the Advisors in DAI.
On the subject of Hawke originally being intended as Inquisitor, there is nothing to suggest this was to be the case. Hawke's story was intended to be tied off in the Exalted March DLC which was cancelled. At the end of the main story in DA2 Cassandra is looking for Hawke to mediate in the mage/Templar war, which is confirmed was the case in DAI. According to what Cassandra says in DAI, the Divine thought they might be a good person to lead her newly formed Inquisition, which doesn't mean that they were actually going to do that with Hawke but how they got round the conversation between Leliana and Cassandra at the end of DA2. I never understood why they thought that Hawke would be a good mediator considering they had categorically taken one side or the other in DA2, which would immediately made the other side feel they were less than impartial. It would have made them an even worse choice for Inquisitor as nobody would have trusted them, so it was clearly a pretty poor decision on the part of the Divine if that had been her intent.
It was quite obvious that at the end of DA2 originally they were hinting that there was something suspicious about both the Warden and Hawke going missing at the same time. Clearly they had been looking for the Warden as well as Hawke, which given the logic that they were seeking Hawke to be Inquisitor, would suggest that the Warden was an alternative candidate for the role. Whatever they planned to do with the story in Exalted March, it would presumably have explained the connection in Leliana's mind between the disappearance of the two PCs. However, that story was abandoned and instead we got the Warden's absence being attributed to them going on some wild goose chase looking for a cure for the taint. As Varric clearly points out to Cassandra, had Hawke been found in time for the Conclave, likely they would have been blown up too. I doubt fans would have been happy with their PC being blown up, which is why they came up with the alternative scenario. Then Hawke became more involved with the problem of Corypheus and less with the resolution of the mage/Templar conflict that DA2 claimed they had been responsible for (but which was played down in the novel Asunder). So in the end, the one reason the Divine thought they would make a good mediator in the conflict was ignored as the new PC had already resolved the dispute before Hawke even put in an appearance.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 23, 2017 18:55:43 GMT
Yeah I was kinda sad when I watched the part that said that our Inquisitor won't be the main protag in the next game. Formed some really close bonds with all of the companions, it's gonna be hard to say good-bye to most of them.... On the bright side, Dorian might be one of the companions in the next game but it would've been more lovely if we played as the Inquisitor to reunite with him instead of meeting him for the 2nd time as a new person. If the Inquisitor does get a guest role in the next game, do you guys think they will get a "magical" or mechanical arm? Or maybe they will just wield one-handed weapons if they have a role similar to Hawke's. It would've been cool if each Inquisitor has a different type of arm depending on their class: warriors gets a bazooka, mages get a flamethrower, rogues get a grappling hook. But I feel that might be harder on the gameplay designers... Man... I just wish our Inquisitor could say good-bye to our friends one last time instead of dying alone like Hawke (in the Fade) or meeting a ominous fate in wisehaupt (the warden hq but I can't remember the spelling). If the Inquisitor come back, as I know Bioware's stories, we should choose between Dorian and Inquisitor, which one be sacrificed, which one will live. If they do that, let me just apologize to the Dorian fans now because he is never being chosen over the Inquisitor by me. I still maintain that whilst Trespasser tied off the story of our PC as INQUISITOR, that is leader of that organisation, it did not resolve the story for them as a character, seeing as they specifically have them directing the efforts against Solas at the end. So it is more likely they will be there in the background, a bit like TIM in ME2, giving ideas and leads about where the new PC will head to next, whilst Dorian will probably be the main contact on the ground in Tevinter giving advice on how to deal with Tevinter society, etc, but again not playing an active role, being more like the Advisors in DAI.
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