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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Sept 28, 2016 8:45:49 GMT
Teagan is an ass and so is whoever sent him. They may be worried about the Inquisition, they may not approve of Inquisition forces squatting on their beautiful keep, but you know what... they could have asked. Asked for the Inquisition to hand back the keep. Asked them to move the bulk of their forces somewhere else. Asked them to sign a non-aggression pact. But nooo, he went with the full nine yards right away - the Inquisition needs to go! That is an act of ingratitude and barely veiled hostility. Plus, a neutral force between Ferelden and Orlais right in the middle of the mountains - where no farmland or some such is lost - might actually be a good thing. But the real reason is likely that BioWare wanted to end the Inquisition and this was the best they could come up with. Two problems: One, we know Josephine has been deflecting the Orlesian politicians, and that she views Ferelden's politicians as a bigger problem. How do we know that Teagan wasn't trying to ask for those things for more than a year before Trespasser happened? Two, while a neutral or friendly force between Ferelden and Orlais might be useful, Teagan apparently knows that Orlais is trying to co-opt them. Since the Inquisition is to all appearances the force in Ferelden (Varric jokes that you could conquer the country by looking east) that makes them dangerous enemies. Teagan is no politician. Not a good one, anyway. No competent politician would go about promoting his agenda in such a crude and confrontative way when meeting with representatives of other nations. Ferelden's concerns are valid, but the king/queen chose a poor "diplomat" to represent them. Of course, that Ferelden's concerns are valid doesn't prevent me from hating how this turned out. Nobody likes to lose, and losing in the epilogue is just insulting. Actually before DAI Teagan was a damn good diplomat, we see that in DAO in the Red Cliff Chantry, in DA2 when he and Allister show up and in MoA when your talking to at the chateu. He was very friendly, polite and diplomatic. That War room mission we got from him surprised me. He seemed rather pissy and to be honest if was going to be pissy with anyone it should've been Allister for sending the mages to Red Cliff in the first place. We did him a favor by taking them away. It was also odd that on the War table, Allister was the friendlier of the two, Teagan is usually the one to be the more diplomatic, so if Allister is satisfied with the Inquisition, I would figure Teagan would've been too, since he seems to take the lead in situations like that. That whole situation in Ferelden is odd and I question what's happening there. I'd written off Teagan's rudeness during the War Table mission as stress. It happens. Especially when you've just been tossed out of your home. And he does try to make up for it later by handing you a PR oppurtunity. As for Teagan's rudeness in Trespasser... well, Teagan was fairly polite outside of the debating hall, when he let you interrupt a conversation between him and the Divine. And his rudeness in the debating hall isn't entirely out of character. He views you as an enemy for all the reasons everyone's already gotten into, Cyril as an enemy because he's trying to encourage you to live down to your potential and marry the Inquisition to Orlais, and the Divine as an enemy because she's been helping you put this off. We see him treat the Warden politely because he views the Warden as an ally (though it's been pointed out before that he does manipulate you by withholding the secret of the tunnel.) The one time we see him conversing with an enemy in Dragon Age: Origins, in the Landsmeet scene that takes place as you leave the Korcari Wilds, he's not as polite.
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 28, 2016 9:43:50 GMT
Two problems: One, we know Josephine has been deflecting the Orlesian politicians, and that she views Ferelden's politicians as a bigger problem. How do we know that Teagan wasn't trying to ask for those things for more than a year before Trespasser happened? You mean someone as kind and smart as Josie would have intentionally left the entire Inquisition in the dark about Ferelden wanting their keep back and worrying about a neutral force near their borders? Why would she do that? Especially since the immediate threat of Coryphywaffles and the demons raining from the sky is over, so there's more time to deal with actual day to day diplomacy. Josie leaving everyone out of the loop while quietly telling Ferelden to bugger off is something I find very hard to believe, given all the things of lesser importance that popped up on the war table during the game. Ferelden demanding their keep back would be a major diplomatic incident, something requiring immediate attention. Two, while a neutral or friendly force between Ferelden and Orlais might be useful, Teagan apparently knows that Orlais is trying to co-opt them. Since the Inquisition is to all appearances the force in Ferelden (Varric jokes that you could conquer the country by looking east) that makes them dangerous enemies. Which makes it so weird that he starts off as immediately hostile himself. Ferelden and Orlais are ancient enemies as far as I know, so wouldn't it be much smarter to play nice with the Inquisition in the hope of gaining an ally? Why piss them off and make sure that Ferelden ends up with two enemies instead of one? We, the players, and the devs and writers of course know that there is no way of keeping the Inquisition intact and independent, but Teagan the character cannot know this. What if the negotiations had gone wrong and the Inquisition refused to accept any of the suggestions? Would Orlais and Ferelden have united against them? That would have been laughable - like the US and the USSR uniting against a third party country during the cold war because said country refused to join either side. No, the result would have been that Ferelden had ended up with a second powerful enemy instead. It's also very odd that Teagan accepts the Inquisition as the Divine's honor guard. Wouldn't that mean that they are stationed in Val Royeaux and be much more subject to Orlesian influence over time? I still think that Teagan is an ass, and that his mission would be diplomatic suicide if the end of the Inquisition were not inevitable - because the game gives the player no "remain independent" choice.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Sept 28, 2016 9:51:25 GMT
Two problems: One, we know Josephine has been deflecting the Orlesian politicians, and that she views Ferelden's politicians as a bigger problem. How do we know that Teagan wasn't trying to ask for those things for more than a year before Trespasser happened? You mean someone as kind and smart as Josie would have intentionally left the entire Inquisition in the dark about Ferelden wanting their keep back and worrying about a neutral force near their borders? Why would she do that? Especially since the immediate threat of Coryphywaffles and the demons raining from the sky is over, so there's more time to deal with actual day to day diplomacy. Josie leaving everyone out of the loop while quietly telling Ferelden to bugger off is something I find very hard to believe, given all the things of lesser importance that popped up on the war table during the game. Ferelden demanding their keep back would be a major diplomatic incident, something requiring immediate attention. I mean that the intro to Trespasser seems to me to indicate that she was putting off meeting with them at all. Which would make it hard for Teagan to make the requests you say he should have, and would leave him frustrated. Two, while a neutral or friendly force between Ferelden and Orlais might be useful, Teagan apparently knows that Orlais is trying to co-opt them. Since the Inquisition is to all appearances the force in Ferelden (Varric jokes that you could conquer the country by looking east) that makes them dangerous enemies. Which makes it so weird that he starts off as immediately hostile himself. Ferelden and Orlais are ancient enemies as far as I know, so wouldn't it be much smarter to play nice with the Inquisition in the hope of gaining an ally? Why piss them off and make sure that Ferelden ends up with two enemies instead of one? We, the players, and the devs and writers of course know that there is no way of keeping the Inquisition intact and independent, but Teagan the character cannot know this. What if the negotiations had gone wrong and the Inquisition refused to accept any of the suggestions? Would Orlais and Ferelden have united against them? That would have been laughable - like the US and the USSR uniting against a third party country during the cold war because said country refused to join either side. No, the result would have been that Ferelden had ended up with a second powerful enemy instead. It's also very odd that Teagan accepts the Inquisition as the Divine's honor guard. Wouldn't that mean that they are stationed in Val Royeaux and be much more subject to Orlesian influence over time? I still think that Teagan is an ass, and that his mission would be diplomatic suicide if the end of the Inquisition were not inevitable - because the game gives the player no "remain independent" choice. Would that make it weird, in the context of how he treated Loghain? Loghain had the power to crush him too, and yet Teagan openly defied him. I'm not saying Teagan isn't being an ass, only that it's arguably less out of character than some are arguing. (Well, and that he has at least a few legitimate concerns, and that reading between the lines it seems like he might have more.)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2016 17:17:32 GMT
Teagan is an ass and so is whoever sent him. They may be worried about the Inquisition, they may not approve of Inquisition forces squatting on their beautiful keep, but you know what... they could have asked. Asked for the Inquisition to hand back the keep. Asked them to move the bulk of their forces somewhere else. Asked them to sign a non-aggression pact. But nooo, he went with the full nine yards right away - the Inquisition needs to go! That is an act of ingratitude and barely veiled hostility. Plus, a neutral force between Ferelden and Orlais right in the middle of the mountains - where no farmland or some such is lost - might actually be a good thing. But the real reason is likely that BioWare wanted to end the Inquisition and this was the best they could come up with. Two problems: One, we know Josephine has been deflecting the Orlesian politicians, and that she views Ferelden's politicians as a bigger problem. How do we know that Teagan wasn't trying to ask for those things for more than a year before Trespasser happened?
Two, while a neutral or friendly force between Ferelden and Orlais might be useful, Teagan apparently knows that Orlais is trying to co-opt them. Since the Inquisition is to all appearances the force in Ferelden (Varric jokes that you could conquer the country by looking east) that makes them dangerous enemies.Actually before DAI Teagan was a damn good diplomat, we see that in DAO in the Red Cliff Chantry, in DA2 when he and Allister show up and in MoA when your talking to at the chateu. He was very friendly, polite and diplomatic. That War room mission we got from him surprised me. He seemed rather pissy and to be honest if was going to be pissy with anyone it should've been Allister for sending the mages to Red Cliff in the first place. We did him a favor by taking them away. It was also odd that on the War table, Allister was the friendlier of the two, Teagan is usually the one to be the more diplomatic, so if Allister is satisfied with the Inquisition, I would figure Teagan would've been too, since he seems to take the lead in situations like that. That whole situation in Ferelden is odd and I question what's happening there. I'd written off Teagan's rudeness during the War Table mission as stress. It happens. Especially when you've just been tossed out of your home. And he does try to make up for it later by handing you a PR oppurtunity. As for Teagan's rudeness in Trespasser... well, Teagan was fairly polite outside of the debating hall, when he let you interrupt a conversation between him and the Divine. And his rudeness in the debating hall isn't entirely out of character. He views you as an enemy for all the reasons everyone's already gotten into, Cyril as an enemy because he's trying to encourage you to live down to your potential and marry the Inquisition to Orlais, and the Divine as an enemy because she's been helping you put this off. We see him treat the Warden politely because he views the Warden as an ally (though it's been pointed out before that he does manipulate you by withholding the secret of the tunnel.) The one time we see him conversing with an enemy in Dragon Age: Origins, in the Landsmeet scene that takes place as you leave the Korcari Wilds, he's not as polite. You see, Orlais' attempt at taking over the Inquisition is the exact reason why my Inquisitor would've been solidifying relations with Ferelden, so if Josphine was having issues with Teagan, it would've been on his side, not mine. As far as I'm concerned, Ferelden is the better ally. Teagen didn't throw you a PR mission, it was Allister, for all we know Teagan didn't want him to do that. You can try to say he was polite but to me he came off as snarky, his tone of voice and snippy way of talking seem rather snooty. For all we know he could be deliberately trying to mess things up with the Inquision and Orlais, because there's a certain brand of people who profit off of chaos, if he were truely trying to work with my people before all this he would've had what he wanted, but I get the impression there would be no satisfying him anyway, because he had other plans.
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Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
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riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Sept 28, 2016 18:54:18 GMT
You see, Orlais' attempt at taking over the Inquisition is the exact reason why my Inquisitor would've been solidifying relations with Ferelden, so if Josphine was having issues with Teagan, it would've been on his side, not mine. As far as I'm concerned, Ferelden is the better ally. [/quote] That's the decision you would have made. But you weren't controlling the Inquisitor over the two year timeskip. You can't be sure the Inquisitor would make the same decisions you would over the timeskip, and I think there's weak evidence that your Inquisitor did not make the same decisions you would have. Teagen didn't throw you a PR mission, it was Allister, for all we know Teagan didn't want him to do that. You can try to say he was polite but to me he came off as snarky, his tone of voice and snippy way of talking seem rather snooty. For all we know he could be deliberately trying to mess things up with the Inquision and Orlais, because there's a certain brand of people who profit off of chaos, if he were truely trying to work with my people before all this he would've had what he wanted, but I get the impression there would be no satisfying him anyway, because he had other plans. Teagan did, in fact, throw you a bone as far as PR goes. If you complete the War Table mission he tells you about a tournament that you can use to get your names out there. He even gives you a sort-of-half-apology for his previous rudeness.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2016 19:11:03 GMT
Teagan did, in fact, throw you a bone as far as PR goes. If you complete the War Table mission he tells you about a tournament that you can use to get your names out there. He even gives you a sort-of-half-apology for his previous rudeness.[/quote] [/b] Oooh! I forgot about that, I was thinking about the Josephine moderating the Allister/Celene talks. But that could've been him testing the Inquisition mettle too. A set up. If the Inquisition had won and tried to claim ownership of the land in question, he could've claimed they were trying to take over, but we sent a fighter who was good, but not so good they took the tournament. If the Inquisition were interested in conquering Ferelden like Teagan was suggesting, wouldn't laying claim to that land being offered have been a good foothold? We sent someone who was more interested in business deals and alliances, not land conquests.
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