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Post by naughtynomad on Jul 27, 2017 5:51:32 GMT
www.pcgamer.com/what-we-want-from-a-new-dragon-age-game/?utm_content=buffer388fe&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertwI the article they discuss things they'd like to see in DA4. I have to say I agree with most except for the "Characters disagree with you" bit. I think BioWare limits itself by just letting some companions leave because they don't like you. I much prefer the hardening/softening system Origins had with Leliana and Alistair, and the Rivalry/Friendship system DA2 had. I like that the protagonist is influential enough to bring along his companion's character development. I would like to see a system where you could convince Cassandra to give up her faith in the Maker. Convince Vivienne that her political aspirations are wrong. Of course if you don't do it correctly, having them leave would make sense, but I would like to see more control in the player's hands.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Jul 27, 2017 10:58:08 GMT
I agree with a lot of this - I REALLY REALLY want the Tactics system back - but I love the Deep Roads and I'll be sad if we don't spend any time there in DA4. Especially since we only just found our first Titan!
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Post by Walter Black on Jul 27, 2017 12:42:53 GMT
www.pcgamer.com/what-we-want-from-a-new-dragon-age-game/?utm_content=buffer388fe&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertwI the article they discuss things they'd like to see in DA4. I have to say I agree with most except for the "Characters disagree with you" bit. I think BioWare limits itself by just letting some companions leave because they don't like you. I much prefer the hardening/softening system Origins had with Leliana and Alistair, and the Rivalry/Friendship system DA2 had. I like that the protagonist is influential enough to bring along his companion's character development. I would like to see a system where you could convince Cassandra to give up her faith in the Maker. Convince Vivienne that her political aspirations are wrong. Of course if you don't do it correctly, having them leave would make sense, but I would like to see more control in the player's hands. Nope . While I personally would prefer an updated and more nuanced Friendship/Rivalry system for alternate character growth, Companions should have their limits and breaking points. Some things, like Cassandra's faith, are so fundamental to the character that if you removed them you would leave those NPCs hollow puppets. Not to mention how it would further dilute RPG choice and consequence, and reeks of player entitlement. Seriously, if you want to so thoroughly alter Companion personalities, why bother having them at all? You could give the player the option of creating their own party members* like in Wastelands 2 or Pillars of Eternity's hirable mercenary system, but those are little better than bots anyway.
*I would not be opposed to such options, but NOT at the expense of fully fleshed out, three dimensional Companions.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 27, 2017 12:52:59 GMT
www.pcgamer.com/what-we-want-from-a-new-dragon-age-game/?utm_content=buffer388fe&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertwI the article they discuss things they'd like to see in DA4. I have to say I agree with most except for the "Characters disagree with you" bit. I think BioWare limits itself by just letting some companions leave because they don't like you. I much prefer the hardening/softening system Origins had with Leliana and Alistair, and the Rivalry/Friendship system DA2 had. I like that the protagonist is influential enough to bring along his companion's character development. I would like to see a system where you could convince Cassandra to give up her faith in the Maker. Convince Vivienne that her political aspirations are wrong. Of course if you don't do it correctly, having them leave would make sense, but I would like to see more control in the player's hands. Nope . While I personally would prefer an updated and more nuanced Friendship/Rivalry system for alternate character growth, Companions should have their limits and breaking points. Some things, like Cassandra's faith, are so fundamental to the character that if you removed them you would leave those NPCs hollow puppets. Not to mention how it would further dilute RPG choice and consequence, and reeks of player entitlement. Seriously, if you want to so thoroughly alter Companion personalities, why bother having them at all? You could give the player the option of creating their own party members* like in Wastelands 2 or Pillars of Eternity's hirable mercenary system, but those are little better than bots anyway.
*I would not be opposed to such options, but NOT at the expense of fully fleshed out, three dimensional Companions.
The opportunity for a more influence doesn't take away the companions' characters. One of tem would left, the other would give him/herself.
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Post by naughtynomad on Jul 27, 2017 13:03:10 GMT
I agree with a lot of this - I REALLY REALLY want the Tactics system back - but I love the Deep Roads and I'll be sad if we don't spend any time there in DA4. Especially since we only just found our first Titan! True... I never minded the Deep Roads. They were definitely not as bad as the Fade has been every time we go there. But almost every DA game has included a Deep Roads DLC, so I think it's safe to say the hate for them isn't so widespread.
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Post by naughtynomad on Jul 27, 2017 13:07:58 GMT
Nope . While I personally would prefer an updated and more nuanced Friendship/Rivalry system for alternate character growth, Companions should have their limits and breaking points. Some things, like Cassandra's faith, are so fundamental to the character that if you removed them you would leave those NPCs hollow puppets. Not to mention how it would further dilute RPG choice and consequence, and reeks of player entitlement. Seriously, if you want to so thoroughly alter Companion personalities, why bother having them at all? You could give the player the option of creating their own party members* like in Wastelands 2 or Pillars of Eternity's hirable mercenary system, but those are little better than bots anyway.
*I would not be opposed to such options, but NOT at the expense of fully fleshed out, three dimensional Companions.
Well, I don't think it should be easy for the player to do, and I do think their personalities should change drastically if you do convince them to change. I wouldn't even be opposed to there being some negative consequences, like reduced stats, if you convinced them to change... But one thing I didn't like while playing Inquisition was that I wanted to RP as power-hungry individual using the Inquisition for their own gain, and none of the companions except for Vivienne would be supportive of that. They all ended up leaving or hating me, and to be honest, that takes a lot of enjoyment out of the play-through. Imagine if you could redeem a darker character into following the light. Or if you could corrupt devout companions. It just seems the RP aspect would be amplified.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 27, 2017 13:13:58 GMT
There is nothing wrong with the PC changing someone's world view fundamentally, like undermining Cassandra's faith, provided you have to fully deal with the consequences of your action. In the Cassandra example, losing faith would have a tremendous negative affect on her, not to mention lose her unique Seeker powers that are conferred by a faith spirit. She might even hate you with a vengeance for doing that to her. Ultimately you might wish that she had just left rather than let you influence her in that way.
What I found hard to accept, particularly in DA2, was characters still sticking by Hawke if they did something absolutely contrary to their worldview, like giving Fenris back to Denarius or becoming a bloodmage. There should be some actions that will break their loyalty to you or at the very least have them confront you about it directly, so you have to justify your action to try and retain their support, rather than simply make a one off voiced objection in the background or have "disapproves" pop up on the screen.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 27, 2017 13:24:33 GMT
There is nothing wrong with the PC changing someone's world view fundamentally, like undermining Cassandra's faith, provided you have to fully deal with the consequences of your action. In the Cassandra example, losing faith would have a tremendous negative affect on her, not to mention lose her unique Seeker powers that are conferred by a faith spirit. She might even hate you with a vengeance for doing that to her. Ultimately you might wish that she had just left rather than let you influence her in that way. What I found hard to accept, particularly in DA2, was characters still sticking by Hawke if they did something absolutely contrary to their worldview, like giving Fenris back to Denarius or becoming a bloodmage. There should be some actions that will break their loyalty to you or at the very least have them confront you about it directly, so you have to justify your action to try and retain their support, rather than simply make a one off voiced objection in the background or have "disapproves" pop up on the screen. Anders refuses Hawke's love, if s/he let sloth demon to possess Feynriel, and in friendship (Hawke didn't crush him) he follow his own way if Hawke supports the Templars. Sebastian leaves, if Hawke refuses to kill Anders, and even suspicious, and doesn't want to help to distract Elthina's attention at Act 3. He leaves the group at the moment. But basically yes, some of their reactions are weird.
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Post by auronvigo on Jul 27, 2017 13:33:16 GMT
I completely disagree about the Deep Roads. I liked The Descent. My only issue was there was a lot of hand waving going on. It reminded me of the X-files, where Mulder already knows what the problem is before he and Scully even arrive. Then you get to the end and every question you ask Valta is met with "It will be fine. Trust me." <wink>
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Post by wright1978 on Jul 27, 2017 13:45:08 GMT
Companions disagreeing i get. Being fiercely independent, i'm less sure on. One of my favourite things from dragon age series has been the hardening/softening of certain companions. Having that influence on Leliana was perfect in my eyes & something that i hope returns.
Equally while i agree on lessening the grindy fetch i dislike their seeming view that doing this an having emptier open worlds is somehow desirable. If you don't have story material to fill massive zones, have smaller zones or less zones.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 15:15:58 GMT
Absolutely disagree with "no more deep roads." Descent was the best deep roads experience from all three games and one of the best dlc's ever. Also, golden nug was perfect for my game play preferences. I mostly agree with the rest of the article.
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Post by fylimar on Jul 27, 2017 15:45:20 GMT
There is a lot to agree in that article. like less MMO feeling, fewer and more interesting side quest, complicated villains(I would through Meredith in that example list and maybe Sanson and Calpernia).
I'm not sure about the Deep Roads (I have to say, I haven't played Descent yet, so maybe they did got it right there). I don't want something like the Deep Road section in DAO again - never. The only interesting part was the Broodmother section - creepy and very well done. The rest was just plain boring dungeon crawl. In DA2, it was boring too, but at least it wasn't that long. The short trip in DAI main game (Valammar) was ok. I wish, they would show us again, why the Deep Roads are so feared - not with thousands of meaningless darkspawn, but with scenes like that Broodmother scene. And they should make the Darkspawn more creepy - for example, I really liked the look of the emissaries in DA2 - that kind of creepy.
A better friendship/ricalry system would be great. And I would like more content with romanced characters - and I don't mean sex scenes, I mean more options, like the dancing in DAI or some more dialogue options (plus a better check, if that character is romanced - it's annoying, when Iron Bull for example calls you kadan in romance scenes, but boss in all others)
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Post by aznricepuff on Jul 27, 2017 16:06:31 GMT
What I really want to see from DA4 that we'll probably never get is a move toward more stats-based systems in combat. Specifically systems that emphasize the importance of buffing, debuffing, and crowd control. In DAI, outside of a few specific instances the most viable strategy in combat was always DPS - kill the enemy as fast as possible. The CC options were too limited and had too little effect - a situation aggravated by the fact that almost all CC effects eventually end prematurely due to combo detonations anyway.
I just played through Pillars of Eternity, and it made me realize how much more tactically satisfying that kind of combat is compared to what we had in DAI. In DAI it's fun to see super high damage numbers pop up on your screen, but that gets old pretty quickly, especially when you largely employ the same tactics to DPS almost any encounter in the game. None of that compared to the satisfaction I got in PoE after figuring how to chain debuffs in exactly the right order to reliably push down a difficult boss's stats enough so that my big ticket abilities could land hits and crits instead of grazes and misses, all the while making sure any adds are properly CC'ed so they can't interrupt my party.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 27, 2017 16:07:28 GMT
There is a lot to agree in that article. like less MMO feeling, fewer and more interesting side quest, complicated villains(I would through Meredith in that example list and maybe Sanson and Calpernia). I'm not sure about the Deep Roads (I have to say, I haven't played Descent yet, so maybe they did got it right there). I don't want something like the Deep Road section in DAO again - never. The only interesting part was the Broodmother section - creepy and very well done. The rest was just plain boring dungeon crawl. In DA2, it was boring too, but at least it wasn't that long. The short trip in DAI main game (Valammar) was ok. I wish, they would show us again, why the Deep Roads are so feared - not with thousands of meaningless darkspawn, but with scenes like that Broodmother scene. And they should make the Darkspawn more creepy - for example, I really liked the look of the emissaries in DA2 - that kind of creepy. A better friendship/ricalry system would be great. And I would like more content with romanced characters - and I don't mean sex scenes, I mean more options, like the dancing in DAI or some more dialogue options (plus a better check, if that character is romanced - it's annoying, when Iron Bull for example calls you kadan in romance scenes, but boss in all others) I played with Descent, I enjoyed the story. I haven't problem with Deep Roads, in fact, I would like if the Architect's story would continued/got some end.
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Post by tacsear on Jul 27, 2017 16:12:01 GMT
There is a lot to agree in that article. like less MMO feeling, fewer and more interesting side quest, complicated villains(I would through Meredith in that example list and maybe Sanson and Calpernia). I'm not sure about the Deep Roads (I have to say, I haven't played Descent yet, so maybe they did got it right there). I don't want something like the Deep Road section in DAO again - never. The only interesting part was the Broodmother section - creepy and very well done. The rest was just plain boring dungeon crawl. In DA2, it was boring too, but at least it wasn't that long. The short trip in DAI main game (Valammar) was ok. I wish, they would show us again, why the Deep Roads are so feared - not with thousands of meaningless darkspawn, but with scenes like that Broodmother scene. And they should make the Darkspawn more creepy - for example, I really liked the look of the emissaries in DA2 - that kind of creepy. A better friendship/ricalry system would be great. And I would like more content with romanced characters - and I don't mean sex scenes, I mean more options, like the dancing in DAI or some more dialogue options (plus a better check, if that character is romanced - it's annoying, when Iron Bull for example calls you kadan in romance scenes, but boss in all others) I played with Descent, I enjoyed the story. I haven't problem with Deep Roads, in fact, I would like if the Architect's story would continued/got some end. Architect? Yes please
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Post by fylimar on Jul 27, 2017 16:35:53 GMT
There is a lot to agree in that article. like less MMO feeling, fewer and more interesting side quest, complicated villains(I would through Meredith in that example list and maybe Sanson and Calpernia). I'm not sure about the Deep Roads (I have to say, I haven't played Descent yet, so maybe they did got it right there). I don't want something like the Deep Road section in DAO again - never. The only interesting part was the Broodmother section - creepy and very well done. The rest was just plain boring dungeon crawl. In DA2, it was boring too, but at least it wasn't that long. The short trip in DAI main game (Valammar) was ok. I wish, they would show us again, why the Deep Roads are so feared - not with thousands of meaningless darkspawn, but with scenes like that Broodmother scene. And they should make the Darkspawn more creepy - for example, I really liked the look of the emissaries in DA2 - that kind of creepy. A better friendship/ricalry system would be great. And I would like more content with romanced characters - and I don't mean sex scenes, I mean more options, like the dancing in DAI or some more dialogue options (plus a better check, if that character is romanced - it's annoying, when Iron Bull for example calls you kadan in romance scenes, but boss in all others) I played with Descent, I enjoyed the story. I haven't problem with Deep Roads, in fact, I would like if the Architect's story would continued/got some end. I read that a lot. Even people, who hated the Deep Roads with passion, seem to like Descent. I have to pick it up one day
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 27, 2017 17:56:32 GMT
I played with Descent, I enjoyed the story. I haven't problem with Deep Roads, in fact, I would like if the Architect's story would continued/got some end. I read that a lot. Even people, who hated the Deep Roads with passion, seem to like Descent. I have to pick it up one day As long as you approach it as a dungeon crawler, it's pretty good. It also has the advantage of having much more interesting environments than previous Deep Roads levels in Dragon Age, which helps a lot.
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Post by fylimar on Jul 27, 2017 17:59:05 GMT
I read that a lot. Even people, who hated the Deep Roads with passion, seem to like Descent. I have to pick it up one day As long as you approach it as a dungeon crawler, it's pretty good. It also has the advantage of having much more interesting environments than previous Deep Roads levels in Dragon Age, which helps a lot. I'll admit, I'm not that fond of hardcore dungeon crawling. More environments sounds cool though
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 27, 2017 18:02:14 GMT
As long as you approach it as a dungeon crawler, it's pretty good. It also has the advantage of having much more interesting environments than previous Deep Roads levels in Dragon Age, which helps a lot. I'll admit, I'm not that fond of hardcore dungeon crawling. More environments sounds cool though I suppose I mean you should approach it expecting a long dungeon, not a particularly long or engaging plot. The two new characters aren't bad and there's big lore (that leaves you with more questions than answers), but the goal of this DLC is to clear a dungeon at the end of the day.
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Post by deadlydwarf on Jul 27, 2017 18:37:59 GMT
www.pcgamer.com/what-we-want-from-a-new-dragon-age-game/?utm_content=buffer388fe&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertwI the article they discuss things they'd like to see in DA4. I have to say I agree with most except for the "Characters disagree with you" bit. I think BioWare limits itself by just letting some companions leave because they don't like you. I much prefer the hardening/softening system Origins had with Leliana and Alistair, and the Rivalry/Friendship system DA2 had. I like that the protagonist is influential enough to bring along his companion's character development. I would like to see a system where you could convince Cassandra to give up her faith in the Maker. Convince Vivienne that her political aspirations are wrong. Of course if you don't do it correctly, having them leave would make sense, but I would like to see more control in the player's hands. Nope . While I personally would prefer an updated and more nuanced Friendship/Rivalry system for alternate character growth, Companions should have their limits and breaking points. Some things, like Cassandra's faith, are so fundamental to the character that if you removed them you would leave those NPCs hollow puppets. Not to mention how it would further dilute RPG choice and consequence, and reeks of player entitlement. Seriously, if you want to so thoroughly alter Companion personalities, why bother having them at all? You could give the player the option of creating their own party members* like in Wastelands 2 or Pillars of Eternity's hirable mercenary system, but those are little better than bots anyway.
*I would not be opposed to such options, but NOT at the expense of fully fleshed out, three dimensional Companions.
I agree; if anything, on normal setting, many of the NPCs were too pliable. A traditionalist like Cassandra should sharply disagree with an Inquisitor who goes the Free Mage route. Under normal settings, she basically goes with the flow. (Cordially agrees to disagree...) I did use the "Fair Weather Friends" Trial and did end up with some rather heated and unexpected discussions with Cassandra over mages - her angry drunk scene. For that matter, that same PT almost ended up with Sera being kicked out after she called Inky a bitch... It wouldn't be unrealistic to have some spineless companions you can mold like Gumby, but some should have enough backbone to stand up to you when you cross their red line. You really should expect opposition on an "evil" PT. Beyond character interactions, going back to the basics, I would like them to have at least two attractive romanceable female characters as they had in both Origins and DA2. In Inquisition, they had three romanceable females but only one of them - Josie - is really attractive IMHO.
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Post by Walter Black on Jul 27, 2017 23:33:48 GMT
Nope . While I personally would prefer an updated and more nuanced Friendship/Rivalry system for alternate character growth, Companions should have their limits and breaking points. Some things, like Cassandra's faith, are so fundamental to the character that if you removed them you would leave those NPCs hollow puppets. Not to mention how it would further dilute RPG choice and consequence, and reeks of player entitlement. Seriously, if you want to so thoroughly alter Companion personalities, why bother having them at all? You could give the player the option of creating their own party members* like in Wastelands 2 or Pillars of Eternity's hirable mercenary system, but those are little better than bots anyway.
*I would not be opposed to such options, but NOT at the expense of fully fleshed out, three dimensional Companions.
Well, I don't think it should be easy for the player to do, and I do think their personalities should change drastically if you do convince them to change. I wouldn't even be opposed to there being some negative consequences, like reduced stats, if you convinced them to change... But one thing I didn't like while playing Inquisition was that I wanted to RP as power-hungry individual using the Inquisition for their own gain, and none of the companions except for Vivienne would be supportive of that. They all ended up leaving or hating me, and to be honest, that takes a lot of enjoyment out of the play-through. Imagine if you could redeem a darker character into following the light. Or if you could corrupt devout companions. It just seems the RP aspect would be amplified.Try Obsidian's Tyranny, where you have any number of ruthless and sadistic choices. "Sometimes Evil Wins" indeed
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Post by Walter Black on Jul 27, 2017 23:43:28 GMT
There is nothing wrong with the PC changing someone's world view fundamentally, like undermining Cassandra's faith, provided you have to fully deal with the consequences of your action. In the Cassandra example, losing faith would have a tremendous negative affect on her, not to mention lose her unique Seeker powers that are conferred by a faith spirit. She might even hate you with a vengeance for doing that to her. Ultimately you might wish that she had just left rather than let you influence her in that way. What I found hard to accept, particularly in DA2, was characters still sticking by Hawke if they did something absolutely contrary to their worldview, like giving Fenris back to Denarius or becoming a bloodmage. There should be some actions that will break their loyalty to you or at the very least have them confront you about it directly, so you have to justify your action to try and retain their support, rather than simply make a one off voiced objection in the background or have "disapproves" pop up on the screen. Since most Bioware games use variations on the standard Chosen One Saves the World plot, Companions at least have pragmatism and survival motivating them to work with people they would otherwise never associate with. As much as I love DA2's more personal story, one of it's biggest flaws is how many of it's Companions have no reason to associate with each other, or why Hawke should be forced to work with many of them. Yet they still do, regardless.
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Post by phoray on Jul 28, 2017 0:34:00 GMT
There is nothing wrong with the PC changing someone's world view fundamentally, like undermining Cassandra's faith, provided you have to fully deal with the consequences of your action. In the Cassandra example, losing faith would have a tremendous negative affect on her, not to mention lose her unique Seeker powers that are conferred by a faith spirit. She might even hate you with a vengeance for doing that to her. Ultimately you might wish that she had just left rather than let you influence her in that way. What I found hard to accept, particularly in DA2, was characters still sticking by Hawke if they did something absolutely contrary to their worldview, like giving Fenris back to Denarius or becoming a bloodmage. There should be some actions that will break their loyalty to you or at the very least have them confront you about it directly, so you have to justify your action to try and retain their support, rather than simply make a one off voiced objection in the background or have "disapproves" pop up on the screen. Since most Bioware games use variations on the standard Chosen One Saves the World plot, Companions at least have pragmatism and survival motivating them to work with people they would otherwise never associate with. As much as I love DA2's more personal story, one of it's biggest flaws is how many of it's Companions have no reason to associate with each other, or why Hawke should be forced to work with many of them. Yet they still do, regardless. But that's why I like their interactions the best. They associate because they live in the same town, run in the same circles. They CHOOSE to associate, rather than being forced together by circumstance. and THAT is why they feel like friends and family, instead of Do or Die (DAO) or Coworkers (DAI)
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Post by Walter Black on Jul 28, 2017 15:09:49 GMT
Since most Bioware games use variations on the standard Chosen One Saves the World plot, Companions at least have pragmatism and survival motivating them to work with people they would otherwise never associate with. As much as I love DA2's more personal story, one of it's biggest flaws is how many of it's Companions have no reason to associate with each other, or why Hawke should be forced to work with many of them. Yet they still do, regardless. But that's why I like their interactions the best. They associate because they live in the same town, run in the same circles. They CHOOSE to associate, rather than being forced together by circumstance. and THAT is why they feel like friends and family, instead of Do or Die (DAO) or Coworkers (DAI) Anders is increasingly antagonistic towards Fenris, Sebastian, Aveline, and is particularly cruel to Merrill during Mirror Image. No one likes Justice/Vengeance, and mock them at the slight appearance. Both Aveline and Sebastian butt into people's lives, whether they want it or not. Fenris gives Anders as good as he gets, but is viscous to Merrill. Isabella would have let the Arishok kill them all, if not for Hawke and Hawke alone. Hardly a happy family.
Likewise, the fact that they all hang out weakens their character. For example, why won't Aveline at least try to arrest the Abomination, blood mage, con artist, thieves and murderers in the party? If you say because she bonded with them as friends, why should have bonded in the first place? Neither Fenris nor Sebastian have any problems facing blood mages and/or Abominations, are they really too scared of Hawke to turn Merrill and Anders in? If you say it's because they care for Hawke, why should care for someone who (in their minds) so callously places their lives in needles danger? In Baldur's Gate Companions who hated each other would fight if kept in the party too long, and in Mass Effect 2 Shepard could (temporarily at least) smooth things over. But in DA2 , Companions willing associate with people they dislike or hate, even when they don't have to. How much of these associations is Vitriolic Best Buds, and how much is it the writers lazily giving in to players who want all Companions without much effort?
Last and most importantly, it undermines player choice. What if I want to role play a devout Andrastian and see it as my duty to turn in Anders and Merrill? What if I want to be a criminal mastermind, and don't want Avaline in my business? What if I think Varric is a hanger on and would rather he scram? Sorry, those character quests are required to further the main plot . Forced characters take away player agency and competence in instances where they should have been able to succeed on their own, and is just bad game design. At least Fenris, Isabella and Sebastian are optional.
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Post by arvaarad on Jul 28, 2017 15:36:09 GMT
But that's why I like their interactions the best. They associate because they live in the same town, run in the same circles. They CHOOSE to associate, rather than being forced together by circumstance. and THAT is why they feel like friends and family, instead of Do or Die (DAO) or Coworkers (DAI) Anders is increasingly antagonistic towards Fenris, Sebastian, Aveline, and is particularly cruel to Merrill during Mirror Image. No one likes Justice/Vengeance, and mock them at the slight appearance. Both Aveline and Sebastian butt into people's lives, whether they want it or not. Fenris gives Anders as good as he gets, but is viscous to Merrill. Isabella would have let the Arishok kill them all, if not for Hawke and Hawke alone. Hardly a happy family.
Likewise, the fact that they all hang out weakens their character. For example, why won't Aveline at least try to arrest the Abomination, blood mage, con artist, thieves and murderers in the party? If you say because she bonded with them as friends, why should have bonded in the first place? Neither Fenris nor Sebastian have any problems facing blood mages and/or Abominations, are they really too scared of Hawke to turn Merrill and Anders in? If you say it's because they care for Hawke, why should care for someone who (in their minds) so callously places their lives in needles danger? In Baldur's Gate Companions who hated each other would fight if kept in the party too long, and in Mass Effect 2 Shepard could (temporarily at least) smooth things over. But in DA2 , Companions willing associate with people they dislike or hate, even when they don't have to. How much of these associations is Vitriolic Best Buds, and how much is it the writers lazily giving in to players who want all Companions without much effort?
Last and most importantly, it undermines player choice. What if I want to role play a devout Andrastian and see it as my duty to turn in Anders and Merrill? What if I want to be a criminal mastermind, and don't want Avaline in my business? What if I think Varric is a hanger on and would rather he scram? Sorry, those character quests are required to further the main plot . Forced characters take away player agency and competence in instances where they should have been able to succeed on their own, and is just bad game design. At least Fenris, Isabella and Sebastian are optional. Surprisingly, Anders actually is optional. You can send him away after he almost kills that mage woman. If I recall correctly, that quest happens early in Act II, so you can kick him out pretty much right after his usefulness (the Grey Warden maps) is over. Hawke makes it clear that he's no longer welcome in Kirkwall, much less the party. Obviously he comes back. You see him skulking around in the Hanged Man once near the end, at the time when he starts setting his plan in motion. It's implied that Varric let him back into your city, which adds a whole new layer to Varric's guilt in Inquisition. The next time you see him is for his monologue to Orsino and Meredith. He even has unique dialogue for players who sent him away. For all the time in between, he's completely gone. Most players don't take that dialogue option, though, because they don't want to kick out the healer.
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