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naughtynomad
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Post by naughtynomad on Jul 29, 2017 12:44:02 GMT
I think Inquisition did alright with Armor for companions, but needed a lot more options. They also seemed to follow tradition with having terrible hats.
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Post by naughtynomad on Jul 29, 2017 12:47:23 GMT
Going back to the idea of "wishlist," I'd prefer they go back to something more like the Origins approach to armor. Armor shouldn't change to match a character's "look" and it should actually look like it could deflect a sword or stop an arrow.Then it probably shouldn't go back to Origins' approach given its fondness for exposing skin at vulnerable areas and boob armor. Personally speaking, I honestly prefer the style in Inquisition and hope that it's the one they'll use for the next game with some variant thrown in. This is especially since we'll be going to a different nation which has a different fashion including when it comes to armor. There's nothing wrong with boob armor, and to be honest the only boob armor i can think of from Origins was Morrigan's and one Dalish set which seemed to make sense. What are you referring to exactly? The Qunari seem to like revealing armor for both men and women... Like I said there is nothing wrong with revealing armor if it makes sense, and leaving it out limitsnthe variety.
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Apr 26, 2018 20:05:42 GMT
1,585
tacsear
1,072
Jun 16, 2017 19:04:21 GMT
June 2017
tacsear
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Painkiller3477
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Post by tacsear on Jul 29, 2017 12:49:03 GMT
Really? I thought armor changing depending on the character wearing it is a nice touch. Reasonable minds may differ... (but you got to admit, the PC variants of many of the armors really do look dorky! Battlemage Mail?) I suppose to be fair, there is a mix in DAI. Grey Warden armor will look the same on all characters though none of them are actually GWs, except BW sort of. Same with the Orlesian gear. Hahah yes battlemage mail was awkward as hell. I never used that, battlemage armor and coat were really good though. I also didn't like the first armor warrior IQ got, but the rest was nice.
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Wanted Apostate
127
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18,241
Catilina
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August 2016
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Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jul 29, 2017 12:52:06 GMT
Going back to the idea of "wishlist," I'd prefer they go back to something more like the Origins approach to armor. Armor shouldn't change to match a character's "look" and it should actually look like it could deflect a sword or stop an arrow. I'd say the opposite - it should always change to fit a companion's look. How often did I think "Vivienne would never wear THAT"? (I love this on Vivienne)
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Sept 2, 2016 19:28:30 GMT
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Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
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Sept 2, 2016 18:49:21 GMT
September 2016
shechinah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Jul 29, 2017 12:54:29 GMT
There's nothing wrong with boob armor, and to be honest the only boob armor i can think of from Origins was Morrigan's and one Dalish set which seemed to make sense. What are you referring to exactly? The Qunari seem to like revealing armor for both men and women... Like I said there is nothing wrong with revealing armor if it makes sense, and leaving it out limitsnthe variety. If the argument is that armor should look like it could deflect a sword or stop an arrow then yes, there is because boob armor is counterproductive to that function. There are people who are better at explaining this than me so I'll try to copy an answer that I heard in regards to female Shepard's boob armor: "The thing about FemShep style boob armor is that it's a terrible idea. There's a very good reason why the cuirass has that ridge in the middle that gives people in it a pot-bellied look, it's there to deflect blows from the front to the side, much like slanted tank armor. Not only does it effectively put more material in front of the attack, but it increases likelihood of the attack just bouncing.
The FemShep style breasts will still do that individually, but the problem is that it will redirect a lot of those hits into the middle of the chest and up the cleavage. That is obviously a huge problem, because if a spear does that, your armor basically redirects it into your neck from below - right into a weak spot of most armor types. Hell, even great bascinets may not protect you from a spear blow like that if it slides below the aventail.
This is less of a problem with modern armor, since it works by ablation (ceramic plates shatter, absorbing the force), but then you have the problem of not only making manufacturing more difficult (flat plate vs. curves), but also of having to make them either more customized (different bust sizes vs. just S, M, L, XL) or really, really uncomfortable.
Last problem is that with pre-modern armor (maybe with modern vests too, not an expert on those), you need space under it - both for padding and for added protection. This is often forgotten, mostly in longbow "tests", a one inch penetration of plate is a non-issue when you have two or three inches of space between the plate and your squishy bits, some of it filled with gambeson. If you want to make the armor anatomically correct, there's only so much space you can fit there."Searches for Dragon Age: Origin's armor is interspersed with mod armor so I'll take me a bit of time to compile vanilla armor.
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Nov 26, 2017 12:37:49 GMT
21,685
fylimar
5,414
Aug 16, 2016 18:31:34 GMT
August 2016
fylimar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by fylimar on Jul 29, 2017 13:00:10 GMT
Going back to the idea of "wishlist," I'd prefer they go back to something more like the Origins approach to armor. Armor shouldn't change to match a character's "look" and it should actually look like it could deflect a sword or stop an arrow. I'd say the opposite - it should always change to fit a companion's look. How often did I think "Vivienne would never wear THAT"? I agree, I like the way, DAI dealt with armor. The companions have very different backgrounds, it would make sense, that they wear different clothing/armor reflecting their taste/culture/personal preferrence. They could leave out the shelves on the protagonists armor in the next game though. I find those things highly annoying - hated them in DA2 and still hate them in DAI. They were the reason, I started to use armor mods.
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Nov 14, 2019 14:57:04 GMT
2,489
deadlydwarf
1,321
August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by deadlydwarf on Jul 29, 2017 13:03:46 GMT
Going back to the idea of "wishlist," I'd prefer they go back to something more like the Origins approach to armor. Armor shouldn't change to match a character's "look" and it should actually look like it could deflect a sword or stop an arrow.Then it probably shouldn't go back to 1. Origins' approach given its fondness for exposing skin at vulnerable areas and boob armor. To be fair, it's among the better but it's still there. Personally speaking, I honestly prefer the style in Inquisition and hope that it's the one they'll use for the next game with some variant thrown in. 2. This is especially since we'll be going to a different nation which has a different fashion including when it comes to armor. 1. The Dalish bikini armor was definitely attractive, but not practical. Other rogue gear did expose the legs, though one can argue that they would enhance rogue maneuverability. In DAI, they did improve Dalish gear - except for the bare feet. 2. Aw yes, Tevinter! I do like their mage robes. The rogue gear seems reasonable. The warriors, OTOH, seem strangely "under-armored." I suppose you could compare them to the old Roman Gladiators.
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August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jul 29, 2017 13:07:34 GMT
Then it probably shouldn't go back to 1. Origins' approach given its fondness for exposing skin at vulnerable areas and boob armor. To be fair, it's among the better but it's still there. Personally speaking, I honestly prefer the style in Inquisition and hope that it's the one they'll use for the next game with some variant thrown in. 2. This is especially since we'll be going to a different nation which has a different fashion including when it comes to armor. 1. The Dalish bikini armor was definitely attractive, but not practical. Other rogue gear did expose the legs, though one can argue that they would enhance rogue maneuverability. In DAI, they did improve Dalish gear - except for the bare feet. 2. Aw yes, Tevinter! I do like their mage robes. The rogue gear seems reasonable. The warriors, OTOH, seem strangely "under-armored." I suppose you could compare them to the old Roman Gladiators. Qunari armor. Sexy.
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Sept 2, 2016 19:28:30 GMT
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Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
2,584
Sept 2, 2016 18:49:21 GMT
September 2016
shechinah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Jul 29, 2017 13:21:40 GMT
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Aug 21, 2016 15:51:50 GMT
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Post by naughtynomad on Jul 29, 2017 13:23:15 GMT
If the argument is that armor should look like it could deflect a sword or stop an arrow then yes, there is because boob armor is counterproductive to that function. There are people who are better at explaining this than me so I'll try to copy an answer that I heard in regards to female Shepard's boob armor: "The thing about FemShep style boob armor is that it's a terrible idea. There's a very good reason why the cuirass has that ridge in the middle that gives people in it a pot-bellied look, it's there to deflect blows from the front to the side, much like slanted tank armor. Not only does it effectively put more material in front of the attack, but it increases likelihood of the attack just bouncing.
The FemShep style breasts will still do that individually, but the problem is that it will redirect a lot of those hits into the middle of the chest and up the cleavage. That is obviously a huge problem, because if a spear does that, your armor basically redirects it into your neck from below - right into a weak spot of most armor types. Hell, even great bascinets may not protect you from a spear blow like that if it slides below the aventail.
This is less of a problem with modern armor, since it works by ablation (ceramic plates shatter, absorbing the force), but then you have the problem of not only making manufacturing more difficult (flat plate vs. curves), but also of having to make them either more customized (different bust sizes vs. just S, M, L, XL) or really, really uncomfortable.
Last problem is that with pre-modern armor (maybe with modern vests too, not an expert on those), you need space under it - both for padding and for added protection. This is often forgotten, mostly in longbow "tests", a one inch penetration of plate is a non-issue when you have two or three inches of space between the plate and your squishy bits, some of it filled with gambeson. If you want to make the armor anatomically correct, there's only so much space you can fit there."Searches for Dragon Age: Origin's armor is interspersed with mod armor so I'll take me a bit of time to compile vanilla armor. Oh I see you are talking about the "cones" that give the female armors a more feminine shape. I thought you were referring to the "metal bikini" armor you see in other fantasy games. For me, it's a bit of a fuss over nothing. Feminine armor has been a staple of fantasy for generations. If we're going for something historically accurate, then women would likely not be in roles of combat at all... Even revealing armor can make sense if it follows the design utilized by a particular culture. The Spartans went into battle naked. Even the ancient Chinese have stories of enter battle with no clothing or very little. The Champa people of ancient Vietnam were known to have female warriors would fought topless...
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Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
2,584
Sept 2, 2016 18:49:21 GMT
September 2016
shechinah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Jul 29, 2017 13:28:18 GMT
2. Aw yes, Tevinter! I do like their mage robes. The rogue gear seems reasonable. The warriors, OTOH, seem strangely "under-armored." I suppose you could compare them to the old Roman Gladiators. I love the idea that each country has its own distinctive style. Tevinter armor looks awesome and I'm so hoping they'll stick to the style seen below:
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shechinah
Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
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Sept 2, 2016 18:49:21 GMT
September 2016
shechinah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Jul 29, 2017 13:37:09 GMT
1. Oh I see you are talking about the "cones" that give the female armors a more feminine shape. I thought you were referring to the "metal bikini" armor you see in other fantasy games. For me, it's a bit of a fuss over nothing. Feminine armor has been a staple of fantasy for generations. If we're going for something historically accurate, then women would likely not be in roles of combat at all... 2. Even revealing armor can make sense if it follows the design utilized by a particular culture. The Spartans went into battle naked. Even the ancient Chinese have stories of enter battle with no clothing or very little. The Champa people of ancient Vietnam were known to have female warriors would fought topless... 1. Again, if the argument is that armor should look like it could deflect a sword or stop an arrow then yes, it matters and that was the argument brought up. Also, just because it's staple does not mean it always has to apply to every work of fantasy fiction. It's not a rule: it's a decision. It's the same with helmetless battles: they may be a staple of fantasy films but that does not mean it's a rule that every visual medium of the fantasy genre have to abide by. It's even a pet peeve of George R. R. Martin. “Here’s the Hound, not wearing a helmet. That guy’s not wearing a helmet. This guy just had his head smashed in, he wasn’t wearing a helmet. That one, the guy that got his throat slit, if he had been wearing a helmet, that wouldn’t have happened. I’m wearing a helmet right now. Everybody should wear a helmet… There once was a Superbowl where Thurman Thomas, of the Buffalo Bills was going to be in the Superbowl, but he was unable to find his helmet, so he didn’t actually start the Superbowl game. Shoulda had his helmet… See, see Tyrion there? He’s wearing his helmet… but he just took it off, and as you see he’ll rue it……. That guy should have been wearing a helmet.” - George R. R. Martin’s commentary track on the ‘Blackwater’ episode of Game of Thrones
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1,253
Sept 15, 2016 15:02:16 GMT
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Post by Walter Black on Jul 29, 2017 18:59:28 GMT
I took that option with my mage Hawke who was also a healer, so no problem about losing Anders. I was deliberately trying to rival Anders so I had her constantly criticise him about allowing the merge with Justice, which annoyed him, and then after he nearly killed Ella that Hawke saw it as the last straw and vindicated her view on the matter, so she gave him his marching orders. It was interesting to see the different way it worked out in Act 3. And Hawke reached her goal? Did Justice disappear? Not? I never got the point of the rivalry with Anders, if Hawke does not support the Templars wholeheartedly. There's no logical reason. Justice can't disappear due to Hawke's criticism, and Anders will not be less dangerous, nor better person, only loses his faith, and doesn't take the responsibility for what he did, but blames Justice instead, and have a big chance to turn Justice into demon. Off the top of my head, I can think of several valid reasons a non-Templar aligned Hawke can Rival Anders:
1) You can be pro-mage freedom and still oppose becoming an Abomination. The whole thing is textbook cliché of why normal fear mages, justify their fears, and makes it harder on fellow mages in the long run. Not to mention how it warps both the mage and spirit, twisting and excluding anyone that does not fit their specific aims. Seriously, Anders claps if you give Fenris back to Danarius .
2) You can oppose Meredith's leadership, but still support general law and order. Two wrongs don't make a right, and you can improve Chantry leadership without resorting to terrorism.
3) As someone who lost everything to the Blight, you could hate Anders for deserting the Grey Wardens. There are still countless darkspawn to kill, to prevent them from finding another Archdemon, help reclaim lost thaigs for the Dwarves, and protect civilization in general.
4) You could just generally not like what an obsessive, manipulative, lying, unstable and unreliable asshole Anders can be.
5) On a meta-gaming level, you could hate what their merging did to Awakenings' fun loving, but still occasionally heroic Anders, and noble Justice.
I like Avaline, but not all of my Hawkes do. A good role playing game should never, ever assume or force motivations or relationships onto the player character. So I guess one of my personal DA4 wishes is that the game allows the player to determine who I care for, align with, and to what degree.
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Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
2,584
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September 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Jul 29, 2017 19:14:21 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jul 29, 2017 19:36:20 GMT
And Hawke reached her goal? Did Justice disappear? Not? I never got the point of the rivalry with Anders, if Hawke does not support the Templars wholeheartedly. There's no logical reason. Justice can't disappear due to Hawke's criticism, and Anders will not be less dangerous, nor better person, only loses his faith, and doesn't take the responsibility for what he did, but blames Justice instead, and have a big chance to turn Justice into demon. Off the top of my head, I can think of several valid reasons a non-Templar aligned Hawke can Rival Anders: 1) You can be pro-mage freedom and still oppose becoming an Abomination. The whole thing is textbook cliché of why normal fear mages, justify their fears, and makes it harder on fellow mages in the long run. Not to mention how it warps both the mage and spirit, twisting and excluding anyone that does not fit their specific aims. Seriously, Anders claps if you give Fenris back to Danarius .
2) You can oppose Meredith's leadership, but still support general law and order. Two wrongs don't make a right, and you can improve Chantry leadership without resorting to terrorism.
3) As someone who lost everything to the Blight, you could hate Anders for deserting the Grey Wardens. There are still countless darkspawn to kill, to prevent them from finding another Archdemon, help reclaim lost thaigs for the Dwarves, and protect civilization in general.
4) You could just generally not like what an obsessive, manipulative, lying, unstable and unreliable asshole Anders can be.
5) On a meta-gaming level, you could hate what their merging did to Awakenings' fun loving, but still occasionally heroic Anders, and noble Justice. I like Avaline, but not all of my Hawkes do. A good role playing game should never, ever assume or force motivations or relationships onto the player character. So I guess one of my personal DA4 wishes is that the game allows the player to determine who I care for, align with, and to what degree. 5. I love what happened with Anders/Justice. (Anders still loves fun, but in Kirkwall, he hasn't so many reasons for fun. If he has, he enjoys that.) This was their fate, even if Hawke kills him at the end. But Hawke knows nothing about it.4. Hawke doesn't know at the Act 1-2, that Anders' "manipulative" (he's not really manipulative, in fact, he really bad on it.) A good-hearted Hawke, who supports the freedom, already befriended him until the Act 3 started. 3. Yes, that's would be a good point, but Anders even helps the Fereldan refugees. And don't forget: when Hawke meets with him, the Blight already over, and Anders wasn't Grey Warden at this times. Not mentioned, that Anders risking his arrest helps to keep alive Bethany/Carver, in fact, he is who suggest this solution, and comforts Hawke on the way home. 2. Hawke doesn't know at the Act 1-2, that Anders will blow up the Chantry. A good-hearted Hawke, who supports the freedom, already befriended him until the Act 3 started. Yes, Anders is a law-breaker, just as Hawke/Bethany, no more, because the apostates are law-breakers. 1. I already wrote, that Hawke can fear from Anders, but only one-two opportunity exists to question him about it. The one of them, when mage Hawke/Bethany experienced, that the Kirkwall Circle's leadership is clearly law-breaker (according to the Chantry law!), and dangerous, more than Anders seems at the moment. He calmed down, immediately, when the danger has disappeared. Hawke doesn't know at the Act 1-2, that Anders will approve, if s/he returns Fenris to Danarius. A good-hearted Hawke, who supports the freedom, already befriended him until the Act 3 started. But if Hawke returns Fenris to Danarius, perhaps appreciates Anders' approval... An example: I know, that Sebastian will try to annex Kirkwall in Inquisition, if Hawke doesn't kill Anders, but my Hawkes mostly almost on 100% friendship with him, because he seems a good man... there's no reason to ignore him. The point is: Hawke doesn't have most of these pieces of information when he befriends or "berivals" with him...
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Mar 27, 2024 19:41:04 GMT
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Walter Black
1,253
Sept 15, 2016 15:02:16 GMT
September 2016
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Post by Walter Black on Jul 29, 2017 23:11:09 GMT
Going back to the idea of "wishlist," I'd prefer they go back to something more like the Origins approach to armor. Armor shouldn't change to match a character's "look" and it should actually look like it could deflect a sword or stop an arrow. I would prefer a hybrid model. In DA2, I actually liked that Companions had their own unique armor sets that reflected their personalities and character progression (Avaline's Captain uniform, romanced Merrill's white and silver robes, Anders' "black priest" outfit, etc...). I do agree that they should have had more variations though; maybe standard, fancy and ceremonial, heavy war gear, and incognito skins. For my ideal armor customization, Companions would have both their own personal sets that can be upgraded, and the ability to put them in other drops or crafted ones.
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1,671
Walter Black
1,253
Sept 15, 2016 15:02:16 GMT
September 2016
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Post by Walter Black on Jul 30, 2017 0:03:05 GMT
Off the top of my head, I can think of several valid reasons a non-Templar aligned Hawke can Rival Anders: 1) You can be pro-mage freedom and still oppose becoming an Abomination. The whole thing is textbook cliché of why normal fear mages, justify their fears, and makes it harder on fellow mages in the long run. Not to mention how it warps both the mage and spirit, twisting and excluding anyone that does not fit their specific aims. Seriously, Anders claps if you give Fenris back to Danarius .
2) You can oppose Meredith's leadership, but still support general law and order. Two wrongs don't make a right, and you can improve Chantry leadership without resorting to terrorism.
3) As someone who lost everything to the Blight, you could hate Anders for deserting the Grey Wardens. There are still countless darkspawn to kill, to prevent them from finding another Archdemon, help reclaim lost thaigs for the Dwarves, and protect civilization in general.
4) You could just generally not like what an obsessive, manipulative, lying, unstable and unreliable asshole Anders can be.
5) On a meta-gaming level, you could hate what their merging did to Awakenings' fun loving, but still occasionally heroic Anders, and noble Justice. I like Avaline, but not all of my Hawkes do. A good role playing game should never, ever assume or force motivations or relationships onto the player character. So I guess one of my personal DA4 wishes is that the game allows the player to determine who I care for, align with, and to what degree. 5. I love what happened with Anders/Justice. (Anders still loves fun, but in Kirkwall, he hasn't so many reasons for fun. If he has, he enjoys that.) This was their fate, even if Hawke kills him at the end. But Hawke knows nothing about it.4. Hawke doesn't know at the Act 1-2, that Anders' "manipulative" (he's not really manipulative, in fact, he really bad on it.) A good-hearted Hawke, who supports the freedom, already befriended him until the Act 3 started. 3. Yes, that's would be a good point, but Anders even helps the Fereldan refugees. And don't forget: when Hawke meets with him, the Blight already over, and Anders wasn't Grey Warden at this times. Not mentioned, that Anders risking his arrest helps to keep alive Bethany/Carver, in fact, he is who suggest this solution, and comforts Hawke on the way home. 2. Hawke doesn't know at the Act 1-2, that Anders will blow up the Chantry. A good-hearted Hawke, who supports the freedom, already befriended him until the Act 3 started. Yes, Anders is a law-breaker, just as Hawke/Bethany, no more, because the apostates are law-breakers. 1. I already wrote, that Hawke can fear from Anders, but only one-two opportunity exists to question him about it. The one of them, when mage Hawke/Bethany experienced, that the Kirkwall Circle's leadership is clearly law-breaker (according to the Chantry law!), and dangerous, more than Anders seems at the moment. He calmed down, immediately, when the danger has disappeared. Hawke doesn't know at the Act 1-2, that Anders will approve, if s/he returns Fenris to Danarius. A good-hearted Hawke, who supports the freedom, already befriended him until the Act 3 started. But if Hawke returns Fenris to Danarius, perhaps appreciates Anders' approval... An example: I know, that Sebastian will try to annex Kirkwall in Inquisition, if Hawke doesn't kill Anders, but my Hawkes mostly almost on 100% friendship with him, because he seems a good man... there's no reason to ignore him. The point is: Hawke doesn't have most of these pieces of information when he befriends or "berivals" with him... I concede it's a fair point that Rival Hawke cannot read Anders' mind or the future. But they don't really need to. In Act One alone Hawke sees that Anders:
1) Is an apostate and Abomination.
2) Is a Grey Warden deserter.
3) Experiences unpredictable mood swings.
4) Ninjamances. Seriously, in several different runs I got both of his "I'm no good for you" and clingy stalker responses whether I flirted with him or not.
5) Casually expresses anarchist revolutionary and mage superiority philosophies in public. Even if Anders' is all talk at that point, it's not exactly smart in a city like Kirkwall.
6) His ego, trolling and dirty humor can grate nerves sometimes. I'm no prude, but sometimes I RP them.
7) He's a little to quick fight, even when non-violent solutions could just as if not more effective*.
So I can see any number of personalities who would have problems with Anders after only a short time; Lawful Good and devout Andrastians, Mage freedom types who consider him an unpredictable and dangerous liability, ruthlessly ambitious Hawkes who want complete control of their pawns, or even some who just want to keep their head down and not be noticed.
*Though to be fair that's a pet peeve of mine for all Bioware games, the lack of good non-combat options. I'm not exactly clamoring for a Bioware Pacifist Run, though the option would be a nice change of pace. And no, I don't believe a no fighting run should necessarily be more moral; I would love to RP a Magnificent Bastard who bribes, lies, intimidates, blackmails, stealths and simply uses someone else to do the dirty work .
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August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jul 30, 2017 1:17:42 GMT
Walter Black : 1. Hawke/Bethany's an apostate too. (Bethany hasn't any problem with Justice, but she's an Andrastian, devoted enough) 2. Anders is an escaped Grey Warden, yes... and a healer, who heals free the Fereldan refugees. Probably he more useful here, than among the Grey Wardens. The blight is over, the refugees/poor people still exist. And Hawke's a Fereldan refugee. 3. Unpredictable mood switch? He killed his first love (one of the best friend – if you play as fem!Hawke...) with his own hand. 4. He wants to be loved and misunderstood a reaction. What an abomination! (Isabela and Merrill appear in the Hawke Manor, because of ONE innocent/idiot compliment...) 5. He never says that he's a mage, only draws attention to general humanity (Cullen). Do you like to RP? Then don't take him to the Gallows (he mention that he doesn't in safe here, if you click on him at Gallows...) 6. Point taken, he's a jerk sometimes. But the others too... just let see Aveline: she asked him to help to catch the apostates... what about if she would ask FENRIS to help to catch the escaped "properties"? 7. When does he want to fight? He doesn't give rivalry, if Hawke doesn't want to kill Thrask. The problem is with me: I always play DA as good/neutral character, but never as lawful. I think, the "lawful good" is an oxymoron in DA-universe, especially in DA2. Bethany is a good, devout Andrastian. Perhaps this is a surprise, but my Hawkes are Andrastian. Anders is an Andrastian, probably he questioned some of the Chantry doctrines, but still. A lawful good Andrastian apostate (!) probably would be outraged, when experienced Meredith's law-breaking –CRIME!–, and Elthina's "neutrality". The rivalry/friendship depend on the companion's feeling. Sadly, Hawke can't say to Anders, that "You are a dick, please shut your dirty mouth up!", and if s/he makes things, what Anders loves, then he will befriend with him, accidentally, without Wiki and metaknowledge... I think, we can continue the debate on the right topic ( friendship/rivalry in DA2 section).
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Post by phoray on Jul 30, 2017 3:22:53 GMT
I don't want to be people's boss anymore- I want friends and comrades, not coworkers and subordinates. I want people to have their own agenda. Like Isabella with the book. And get mad at me if I don't help them do something they want to do.
Moments where Solas tells you about Wisdom's plight and you shrug him off...and he just swallows his worried agony and gently says he'll mark the map are absurd.
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Post by Fredward on Jul 30, 2017 7:09:37 GMT
Make Spells Epic Again. MSEA. MS EA.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Jul 30, 2017 7:31:40 GMT
I like Avaline, but not all of my Hawkes do. A good role playing game should never, ever assume or force motivations or relationships onto the player character. So I guess one of my personal DA4 wishes is that the game allows the player to determine who I care for, align with, and to what degree. I disagree. I think doing that made DA2 immeasurably better than it would have been if Hawke had been a relative blank slate like the Warden or Inquisitor.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 30, 2017 8:44:42 GMT
I like Avaline, but not all of my Hawkes do. A good role playing game should never, ever assume or force motivations or relationships onto the player character. So I guess one of my personal DA4 wishes is that the game allows the player to determine who I care for, align with, and to what degree. I disagree. I think doing that made DA2 immeasurably better than it would have been if Hawke had been a relative blank slate like the Warden or Inquisitor. I disagree. What could improve if no-name Fereldan refugee (apostate/Circle Mage in Kirkwall?)/dalish elf (why a dalish elf would come in Kirkwall – and we have Merrill)/Tal Vashoth/dwarf businessman (Varric?)/ city elf without family would be our protagonist? Why would this hero insist to Kirkwall? Hawke had roots in Kirkwall, no-name protagonist not really. Not mentioned, that only a human noble would able to move in the High Town mansion legally. So: the developers would be forced to make 5-6 totally different games, how the protagonist could able to gain influence. The DA2 protagonist at the beginning not some V.I.P. as a Grey Warden in Blight, as Inquisitor with Andraste's blessed hand. Just a wo/man. We need a good point, why s/he able to be V.I.P in Kirkwall. The mere richness not enough to gain city administration's and the nobles' acceptance in such a world. (Just remember: many people can't accept MAGE Hawke's influence!)
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Post by phoray on Jul 30, 2017 14:00:51 GMT
The thing about any of the characters in DA2 is that if you spent no time with them, they would react differently in cut scenes at the End. Avaline and hawke's bond too strong? She has an epic speech where she ditches Hawke at the end game after she sides against the mages and Hawke.
"A life for a life." And I could have a rival or friendship... I've played DAI almost 5 times through already and find it really weird that when I play a generally helpful character....but then the companion thinks we're total best friends when my character is more like, "meh. You're a little weird, to be honest, but it's not like I wish you death and unhappiness. That's why I helped. but sure, have a grand speech about thinking I'm awesome and we're best friends."
There was nuance in Origins. I could help Morrigan kill Flemeth, but if I admitted that Id done so strategically, not out of lovey dovey friendship, the Dark Ritual speech was different. So I helped her, but the REASON MATTERED.
I could help Fenris free himself of the shadow of Danarius, but if I'd rivaled him up to that point, his "freedom felt like ashes". A VERY different speech from if I'd friended him. OUR RELATIONSHIP STYLE MATTERED.
In DAI, I could help Solas free wisdom. but as far as I remember, my decision to let him kill or make him spare the mages doesn't come up. Regardless of the choice, and other choices, if I get enough points, he thinks I'm awesome and I make him question whether he should burn the present world in chaos. Whether I was a human circle mage that just did her best, to a forward thinking Dalish mage, to a selfish anti noble noble, they got the "you're awesome" speech. It's taken a Templar allying religious nutter (thinks he's the herald) for him to finally tone down a bit. Sera, however, is prickley enough character that earning cookies time felt... deserved. And instead of rival/friendship, I get: WE're BEST FRIENDS EVAR ...or... OH MY GOD, I HATE YOU SO MUCH I GOT DRUNK. <- How is this better than rivalry again?
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 30, 2017 20:12:27 GMT
The main gripe I had with the friendship/rivalry system in DA2 was that at a certain point it locked in, so it could never change no matter what occurred between you thereafter. Which meant that on the whole everything you do in Act 3 is meaningless since by that time the companions are locked in, unless you totally ignored them.
There were exceptions to this. My pro-mage Hawke did seem on course to rival Fenris during Act 1 but then started to moderate her views in Act 2 so the pendulum swung back the other way. This meant it was touch and go whether we would even get as far as sleeping together because my friendship approval bar only just made it to the required level just before the end of Act 2. Then in Act 3 it took an equally long time, and the gift of the sword, to get his final friendship conversation and his approval locking in. Now when he finally admitted his love for me I found that deeply satisfying because not only was I a mage but I had really had to work at keeping the relationship going. Yet I also had been totally true to myself with no meta-gaming to achieve this end.
By contrast I found it very difficult NOT to friendship Anders and usually got locked into friendship shortly after starting Act 2. So despite the fact that I started having severe misgivings, particularly after the Ella incident, Anders continued to think I wholeheartedly supported him. This is why in one run I deliberately went out of my way to criticise him voluntarily becoming an abomination because that seemed the only way a pro-mage Hawke could get through to him that they weren't best buddies.
I must admit that it is frustrating how easy it is to win Solas approval just by stroking his ego and asking about his knowledge of the Fade/Magic/History. I decided to role play a totally pro-Circle mage, a real political animal, who allied with the Templars and was absolutely loved by Vivienne. Whilst he didn't actually take the role of Inquisitor out of faith, he never denied he thought he was the Herald of Andraste. In the end I hated this character I had created so much, I couldn't finish the play through, yet he still earned Solas' respect simply by asking him questions, which he did out of a desire for information that he might possibly be able to use.
If the friendship/rivalry system of DA2 still allowed for a breaking point regarding certain actions even if you did appear to have maxed out, I would have had less problems with it. This could happen with Sebastian over whether you kill Anders or not but that is the only example I can think of. I still maintain that even if maxed out certain companions should have broken with Hawke over handing Fenris back to Denarius. After all what about their friendship with Fenris, did that mean nothing to them?
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Post by Walter Black on Jul 31, 2017 4:30:10 GMT
The main gripe I had with the friendship/rivalry system in DA2 was that at a certain point it locked in, so it could never change no matter what occurred between you thereafter. Which meant that on the whole everything you do in Act 3 is meaningless since by that time the companions are locked in, unless you totally ignored them. The writers not having enough time and resources to create enough scenarios for our choices will always be a problem, unfortunately. Still, I would take an updated Friendship/Rivalry system over the Approval/Disapproval one any day. For all it's faults, FvR allows us to maintain our character's beliefs and desires while giving alternate, yet equally interesting arcs for Companions. AvD however, forces us to do and say what the Companion wants if we want to keep them at their best, making us desperate and meek, or manipulative sociopaths.
I still hate that one; the only way Alone could have made sense to me is if only Hawke and Fenris went to see Varania by themselves. Preferably in one of the noble houses, since The Hanged Man has too many witnesses.
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