inherit
813
0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,054
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by thats1evildude on Aug 13, 2017 9:34:52 GMT
1) Because it's a story I haven't see done in an RPG. 2) Because being a slave fits in with a Level 1 PC: you own nothing. But playing as a powerful mage who does blood sacrifices is a dream come true Ain't gonna happen, so you might as well put those dreams aside. You start out as a Level 1 schlub, remember? You'll be lucky if you're an apprentice to a powerful mage.
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Revan Reborn
Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 13, 2017 19:51:52 GMT
Why does everyone want to play as a slave when you could play as a fucking Magister 1) Because it's a story I haven't see done in an RPG. 2) Because being a slave fits in with a Level 1 PC: you own nothing. While we arguably have never been a "slave" in previous DA games, we've definitely been second class cities or peasants. Whether you look at the city elf origin story in DAO, or Hawke's origin story in DAII, we've already done the "you started with nothing" trope. Not to mention, I think it's more fitting for The Elder Scrolls, where it is a franchise tradition to always start off as a prisoner. I'd rather BioWare do something drastically different. Not a Magister, because I think that would be ridiculous and BioWare is unlikely to have such a defined protagonist. However, perhaps we could be a Magister's son (similar to Dorian), which would give a more personal connection to the culture and society. This is of course assuming the game starts in Tevinter. Regardless, I'm in favor of a new origin that doesn't too closely resemble anything we've done before. However, it also has to make sense with the story and can't place us immediately in a position of great power and influence.
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0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,054
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by thats1evildude on Aug 13, 2017 20:56:45 GMT
I played a City Elf Warden, so I'm aware of that Origin's humble beginnings. Hawke was a refugee, and the Inquisitor was a prisoner.
None of those is comparable to being a slave. The poorest elf in Denerim's alienage still owned the clothes on their back and had the freedom to theoretically do what they wish. A slave owns nothing and has no freedom - they are property.
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3657
0
2,378
Revan Reborn
Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 13, 2017 22:38:03 GMT
I played a City Elf Warden, so I'm aware of that Origin's humble beginnings. Hawke was a refugee, and the Inquisitor was a prisoner. None of those is comparable to being a slave. The poorest elf in Denerim's alienage still owned the clothes on their back and had the freedom to theoretically do what they wish. A slave owns nothing and has no freedom - they are property. To be honest, I think you are grasping at straws. Origin stories rarely play that crucial of a role later in the narrative, so I really don't see that story being that much different from being a refugee, a prisoner, or a peasant. Not to mention, BioWare already did the "slavery is bad" trope to death with Fenris, which I felt was over-the-top in DAII. Part of the issue is BioWare likes to inject their own moral bias into their stories, so you are constantly bashed over the head with "slavery is so terrible and horrible things happen to slaves." I wouldn't loathe it nearly as much if the entire practice was far more nuanced and realistic, like how slavery was treated in The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. Of course, we are still assuming the game will predominantly take place in Tevinter. It's obviously the location that Trepasser teased, but we really don't know anything for sure. We don't even know if DA4 is going to allow us to play multiple races (the Inquisitor originally was only going to be human). Many will vehemently disagree with me on this, but I'd rather have a defined character like Hawke, versus a really generic character lacking substance (partially because of the multiple origins and races issue) like the Inquisitor.
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Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,054
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by thats1evildude on Aug 13, 2017 23:31:46 GMT
I played a City Elf Warden, so I'm aware of that Origin's humble beginnings. Hawke was a refugee, and the Inquisitor was a prisoner. None of those is comparable to being a slave. The poorest elf in Denerim's alienage still owned the clothes on their back and had the freedom to theoretically do what they wish. A slave owns nothing and has no freedom - they are property. To be honest, I think you are grasping at straws. Origin stories rarely play that crucial of a role later in the narrative, so I really don't see that story being that much different from being a refugee, a prisoner, or a peasant. Origins didn't play a large role in the story in DAO. In fact, it was very important in DA2 that Hawke was a refugee, and it was very important that the Inquisitor was initially a prisoner.
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inherit
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0
2,378
Revan Reborn
Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 14, 2017 0:05:40 GMT
Origins didn't play a large role in the story in DAO. In fact, it was very important in DA2 that Hawke was a refugee, and it was very important that the Inquisitor was initially a prisoner. When exactly is it brought up again, or is important at all, that Hawke was a refugee? Once Hawke is established and becomes the "Champion of Kirkwall," it's all about dealing with the Qunari, and then the Templars vs Mages trope BioWare loves to include in every game. Being a refugee, must like the origins in DAO, is only relevant at the start of the experience. The Inquisitor being a prisoner is never relevant. In fact, the only theme that goes on throughout the game that anybody cares about is that the Inquisitor is supposedly the "Herald of Andraste." Nobody actually cares about the Inquisitor's origins, and it at best only comes up in a few wartable missions (nothing to do with being a prisoner either). As I said, origin stories are never that important in BioWare games. The only time I'd argue an origin story was actually important is probably KOTOR and Jade Empire, because those origins tie directly into the plot later on. That's not the case for any of BioWare's more recent works.
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0
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thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by thats1evildude on Aug 14, 2017 1:16:25 GMT
Hawke being a penniless refugee informs the entire first act. It forces them to invest in and join Bartrand's expedition to gain the money and prestige that will keep the Templars away.
The Inquisitor being a prisoner means they spend the prologue under suspicion, and also forces them to join the Inquisition. Leliana says it herself: many believe you still guilty and you won't survive long on your own.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting the player spend the entire game as a slave. I'm saying it's a good starting point.
Imagine it: you and a group of other slaves are tossed into the arena at Minrathous. The others are slaughtered, but you survive. You get better arms and gear, and your prowess in the arena causes you to be bought again and brought to the front lines in Par Villeneuve. Eventually, you win your freedom in victories against the qunari hordes, and you come to the attention of both Solas and the southern Inquisition.
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inherit
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0
2,378
Revan Reborn
Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 14, 2017 5:58:37 GMT
Hawke being a penniless refugee informs the entire first act. It forces them to invest in and join Bartrand's expedition to gain the money and prestige that will keep the Templars away. The Inquisitor being a prisoner means they spend the prologue under suspicion, and also forces them to join the Inquisition. Leliana says it herself: many believe you still guilty and you won't survive long on your own. To be clear, I'm not suggesting the player spend the entire game as a slave. I'm saying it's a good starting point. Imagine it: you and a group of other slaves are tossed into the arena at Minrathous. The others are slaughtered, but you survive. You get better arms and gear, and your prowess in the arena causes you to be bought again and brought to the front lines in Par Villeneuve. Eventually, you win your freedom in victories against the qunari hordes, and you come to the attention of both Solas and the southern Inquisition. That sounds like more of a gladiator origin story than just a typical slave origin story. Of course, why would the Inquisitor or Solas care about some random gladiator who bought his freedom? I just don't really see how that ties into the greater narrative of Solas trying to unmake Thedas and the Inquisitor trying to stop him. Presumably, there's going to have to be something special about the next protagonist for him to be relevant in DA4. In essence, he's going to need the equivalent of the Inquisitor's "mark" to make him a valuable asset in the war to come. I just don't see how a relative nobody, under these circumstances, can really be relevant to the plot that's being formed.
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inherit
813
0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,054
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by thats1evildude on Aug 14, 2017 7:02:37 GMT
Gladiators are often slaves.
I'm going to assume the reason that Solas is rallying his forces in the north is that he needs something in Tevinter. They did plunder the elven empire and it wouldn't shock me if they had some artifact in a vault somewhere that would be valuable to Solas.
Now, Solas loves manipulating others to do his dirty work. So maybe he sees an opportunity with the PC: support this freed slave of some renown in starting a slave rebellion and create the chaos needed to slip in and steal what he wants from the magisters' vaults.
What he doesn't know is the PC has already been approached by the Inquisition and is already allied with them. Just as he's about to claim victory, you turn on him and save the world!
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inherit
3657
0
2,378
Revan Reborn
Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 14, 2017 10:44:18 GMT
Gladiators are often slaves. I'm going to assume the reason that Solas is rallying his forces in the north is that he needs something in Tevinter. They did plunder the elven empire and it wouldn't shock me if they had some artifact in a vault somewhere that would be valuable to Solas. Now, Solas loves manipulating others to do his dirty work. So maybe he sees an opportunity with the PC: support this freed slave of some renown in starting a slave rebellion and create the chaos needed to slip in and steal what he wants from the magisters' vaults. What he doesn't know is the PC has already been approached by the Inquisition and is already allied with them. Just as he's about to claim victory, you turn on him and save the world! I'm aware. I was merely clarifying that you never really indicated what kind of slave. I wasn't sure if you were referring to a house slave, a field slave, a sex slave, or something else. I can't see Solas allying with anyone other than elves. Considering he wants to destroy all of the other races, I'm just not buying that as a possible narrative for DA4. We are still assuming Solas will appear in Tevinter. That's where the Inquisitor indicated he would go, but I don't remember any indication that Solas said he was going to Tevinter. I do suspect, much like his orb, that Solas will be after some ancient elven artifact, but I doubt the Inquisitor would know where it is. Truth be told, I think the Inquisitor is going to be two steps behind Solas for much of the game, if the Inquisitor plays much of a role at all. I'm also not convinced Solas is going to be redeemed, as many seem to be hoping for here. He's clearly not entirely evil, but I'm also not convinced he can live in a world that he doesn't belong to. I wouldn't be surprised if he dies.
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inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Aug 14, 2017 10:48:12 GMT
I'm also not convinced Solas is going to be redeemed, as many seem to be hoping for here. He's clearly not entirely evil, but I'm also not convinced he can live in a world that he doesn't belong to. I wouldn't be surprised if he dies. I'm not convinced he can live in a world he doesn't belong to either, and I'd be surprised if he even can survive DA4, but that doesn't mean he can't be redeemed. Merely that if he can be, the story needs to include some convenient way he can sacrifice himself for the world he was trying to destroy to prove he's been redeemed.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
7959
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 12:03:45 GMT
thats1evildude the SWTOR' Sith Inquisitor story starts you as a slave with powers and has quite a bit of RP around it. I highly recommend it.
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inherit
3657
0
2,378
Revan Reborn
Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 14, 2017 21:31:49 GMT
I'm not convinced he can live in a world he doesn't belong to either, and I'd be surprised if he even can survive DA4, but that doesn't mean he can't be redeemed. Merely that if he can be, the story needs to include some convenient way he can sacrifice himself for the world he was trying to destroy to prove he's been redeemed. We'll see. I'd rather Solas' motivations not be changed just because the player character wants them to be changed. Honestly, it would be refreshing if we didn't have the answers to every problem, and Solas is just content with his fate. I think it would make for a much more compelling story, then DA4 ending with Solas stating "You were right all along!" and then dying to save Thedas.
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inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Aug 14, 2017 22:23:27 GMT
I'm not convinced he can live in a world he doesn't belong to either, and I'd be surprised if he even can survive DA4, but that doesn't mean he can't be redeemed. Merely that if he can be, the story needs to include some convenient way he can sacrifice himself for the world he was trying to destroy to prove he's been redeemed. We'll see. I'd rather Solas' motivations not be changed just because the player character wants them to be changed. Honestly, it would be refreshing if we didn't have the answers to every problem, and Solas is just content with his fate. I think it would make for a much more compelling story, then DA4 ending with Solas stating "You were right all along!" and then dying to save Thedas. You could argue it'd be more realistic for Solas not to be redeemable, but the dialogue in Trespasser with a high-approval Quizzy really does seem to be foreshadowing the potential for exactly that.
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inherit
3657
0
2,378
Revan Reborn
Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 14, 2017 22:29:07 GMT
You could argue it'd be more realistic for Solas not to be redeemable, but the dialogue in Trespasser with a high-approval Quizzy really does seem to be foreshadowing the potential for exactly that. I'm aware, as my Inquisitor was the morally good guy with high approval with Solas. I'm just saying I'll be disappointed if it's that easy. Sometimes outcomes shouldn't be easy, and we shouldn't be able to will things the way we want them to turn out. I'd have a lot more respect for Solas if he stands by his convictions, rather than bending to my will or another.
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Blaze
N3
Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
Posts: 893 Likes: 952
inherit
1150
0
Mar 26, 2023 11:03:39 GMT
952
Blaze
Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
893
Aug 23, 2016 12:15:31 GMT
August 2016
blaze
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Post by Blaze on Aug 15, 2017 8:37:25 GMT
i want each game to give me different experience, so no. unless you can choose if you want to become a warden or not, that way i can be in one playthrough a warden and in another i choose not to be (though i don't see that happening, maybe in the MMO, but god knows when that'll be if at all).
what i want is a game when we don't end up being the hero, how about for once playing the guy who just wants to get by, sure there is an antagonist, but what if the antagonist don't threaten the whole world but just certain amount of people with the PC and their friends being among those people. you fight the antagonist because you had a beef with them, and when you done no one fucking care and they leave you the fuck alone.
act 1 of dragon age 2 was close, hawke trying to get by to be untouchable by the templars, but you still end up helping everyone in kirkwall not to mention further in the game you save the city and become the champion, so yeah...
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inherit
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0
2,378
Revan Reborn
Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 15, 2017 16:50:50 GMT
i want each game to give me different experience, so no. unless you can choose if you want to become a warden or not, that way i can be in one playthrough a warden and in another i choose not to be (though i don't see that happening, maybe in the MMO, but god knows when that'll be if at all). what i want is a game when we don't end up being the hero, how about for once playing the guy who just wants to get by, sure there is an antagonist, but what if the antagonist don't threaten the whole world but just certain amount of people with the PC and their friends being among those people. you fight the antagonist because you had a beef with them, and when you done no one fucking care and they leave you the fuck alone. act 1 of dragon age 2 was close, hawke trying to get by to be untouchable by the templars, but you still end up helping everyone in kirkwall not to mention further in the game you save the city and become the champion, so yeah... The "chosen one" trope is an intentional recurring theme in BioWare games. It's never going to disappear, as BioWare has said as much.
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Blaze
N3
Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
Posts: 893 Likes: 952
inherit
1150
0
Mar 26, 2023 11:03:39 GMT
952
Blaze
Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
893
Aug 23, 2016 12:15:31 GMT
August 2016
blaze
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Post by Blaze on Aug 16, 2017 6:01:02 GMT
i want each game to give me different experience, so no. unless you can choose if you want to become a warden or not, that way i can be in one playthrough a warden and in another i choose not to be (though i don't see that happening, maybe in the MMO, but god knows when that'll be if at all). what i want is a game when we don't end up being the hero, how about for once playing the guy who just wants to get by, sure there is an antagonist, but what if the antagonist don't threaten the whole world but just certain amount of people with the PC and their friends being among those people. you fight the antagonist because you had a beef with them, and when you done no one fucking care and they leave you the fuck alone. act 1 of dragon age 2 was close, hawke trying to get by to be untouchable by the templars, but you still end up helping everyone in kirkwall not to mention further in the game you save the city and become the champion, so yeah... The "chosen one" trope is an intentional recurring theme in BioWare games. It's never going to disappear, as BioWare has said as much. i may not be martin luther king but i can still dream damn it!
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