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Post by wouter445 on Aug 8, 2017 19:53:02 GMT
Generally speaking, you can't be as cartoonishly evil as the Warden, but there are some pretty evil actions that can be taken. For instance, if you're romancing Dorian, you can outright murder the merchant who has his amulet. As for the racism, it's there. You're just not paying attention. Hardly a evil task consider you murdered like 100's of people what's one masked man more?. being evil is hard work it takes effort emotions, not a something that looks close to a human that get shiv.
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Post by thats1evildude on Aug 8, 2017 20:30:35 GMT
Generally speaking, you can't be as cartoonishly evil as the Warden, but there are some pretty evil actions that can be taken. For instance, if you're romancing Dorian, you can outright murder the merchant who has his amulet. As for the racism, it's there. You're just not paying attention. Hardly a evil task consider you murdered like 100's of people what's one masked man more? If you're referring to the killing of bandits or cultists, that's not "murder." Murder is an unlawful premeditated act. Most of the humanoid enemies you face are criminals/terrorists and they attack you on sight, so you're acting in self-defence. In this case, the shopkeeper poses no danger to the Inquisitor and is not doing anything illegal. Stabbing him in his shop is actual cold-blooded murder, and the Inquisitor could feasibly be prosecuted. See, this is why the "evil PC" crowd gets ignored: because you lot are spoiled babies. You go on and on about the subtleties of evil, but in the end you're not happy unless your character is allowed to eat puppies while raping Chantry sisters.
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Post by naughtynomad on Aug 9, 2017 0:32:57 GMT
[quote author=" thats1evildude" See, this is why the "evil PC" crowd gets ignored: because you lot are spoiled babies. Unless your character is allowed to eat small children while raping Chantry sisters, it's just not "evil" enough for you. [/quote] No, you missed the point. That's not why we say Inquisition doesn't have evil choices. Belittling other's argument when you don't understand it will only make you look foolish. For nearly EVERY quest in DAO and DA2 there are evil, self serving put comes you can choose. In DAI you can point to 3-4 evil choices in the whole game. That's why we say DAI lacks the evil path.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Aug 9, 2017 2:11:42 GMT
[quote author=" thats1evildude " See, this is why the "evil PC" crowd gets ignored: because you lot are spoiled babies. Unless your character is allowed to eat small children while raping Chantry sisters, it's just not "evil" enough for you. No, you missed the point. That's not why we say Inquisition doesn't have evil choices. Belittling other's argument when you don't understand it will only make you look foolish. For nearly EVERY quest in DAO and DA2 there are evil, self serving put comes you can choose. In DAI you can point to 3-4 evil choices in the whole game. That's why we say DAI lacks the evil path.[/quote] Yeah, but he conceded that the Warden could be worse in the bits you snipped. And I don't think it invalidated his argument that some of the things you can do are pretty messed up. It's not just three or four things, if you really pay attention at the War Table: you can do a lot of things that should leave you wondering whether Teagan is right to ask that the Inquisition disband. In addition to the stuff I mentioned, you can destroy a woman's marriage during Choose Successor in Lydes, cut out a woman's tongue for Maryden, kill someone for your herbalist, assassinate a Grand Cleric whose only crime is speaking out against you and who you could handle non-lethally, free Thom Rainier from prison by storming the facility he's being held in, and I'm sure I'm missing some messed up stuff. (I'm also leaving out some stuff that I don't believe is evil but others might argue is, such as letting Viuus Anaxes use the corpses of your fallen men as weapons, or letting Josephine free Thom Rainier bloodlessly by calling in a favor from the Orlesian authorities.) What would serious Grey Wardens have done in the situation Clarel's men believed themselves to be in, then? First let me put the obvious first, Demons and darkspawn are not the same a arch demon (is not a demon) it's a fallen god or so they claimed or just a corrupt dragon. What does this have to do with what I asked?No, Wardens hear the Calling when their time is up. It has nothing to do with whether or not there's an Archdemon currently in existence. In fact, I'd imagine most Wardens who heard the Calling heard it when there was no Blight and no Archdemon: most Blights only last decades and the interbellums last centuries, so most Wardens probably never lived to see one, and all Wardens who live long enough to start losing the fight with their Taint will hear the Calling. (I have no idea where you get the idea that not all Wardens hear it.) Yes, but it's not like that's a new problem.
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Post by thats1evildude on Aug 9, 2017 3:01:30 GMT
For nearly EVERY quest in DAO and DA2 there are evil, self serving put comes you can choose. In DAI you can point to 3-4 evil choices in the whole game. That's why we say DAI lacks the evil path. Well, that's a load of bull. There are numerous side quests in both games with no evil choices. In fact, people were making this argument during Dragon Age 2.
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Post by naughtynomad on Aug 9, 2017 3:03:31 GMT
That's a load of bull. There are numerous side quests in both games with no evil choices. There are a few. But the majority have multiple outcomes. Fact. Inquisition mainly has 1 outcome. Fact.[/quote]
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Post by phoray on Aug 9, 2017 17:33:24 GMT
Lol didn't know you could murder knife that guy. That was absurd and hilarious
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Post by wickedcool on Aug 9, 2017 18:49:25 GMT
I agree where are these threads coming from
First there's very few games you can evil and or good
Now racism and factions doing evil things -first wardens got tricked and then gave up free will Racism Tons of elven in hinterlands. There were no holding areas -clearly there was much more emphasis on sexuality and discrimination with Dorian
Dai did take major steps back with cutscenes with minor npcs, many monster close ups Cutting and pasting of early enemies such as hinterland Templar and mage fights I could go on with much more but racism isn't a major defect that was a factor in basically a war torn country
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 9, 2017 19:01:27 GMT
Now I couldn't care less about playing evil because it's just not me but you listing this stuff does bring out something that really does annoy me and that is the fact that apparently Teagan is no different towards the Inquisition whether you are a paragon of virtue or an evil bastard. There is actually an option in the Keep that shows you can totally ignore the plight of Crestwood and leave it to the undead but apparently that merits only a small change in the dialogue from if you saved it. I wanted to point out far more forcibly than I was allowed that the entire nobility of Ferelden had abdicated their responsibilities towards the ordinary people, which is the whole purpose for their existence. Yet the only means to really bring this home was with the aggressive disband speech, which is giving Teagan exactly what he and presumably the other nobles want and yet leaves the ordinary folk without someone to protect them.
So you may feel aggrieved that you couldn't be evil enough but I was aggrieved that not enough people acknowledged that I wasn't.
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Post by Ean'Harel on Aug 9, 2017 20:58:31 GMT
Now I couldn't care less about playing evil because it's just not me but you listing this stuff does bring out something that really does annoy me and that is the fact that apparently Teagan is no different towards the Inquisition whether you are a paragon of virtue or an evil bastard. There is actually an option in the Keep that shows you can totally ignore the plight of Crestwood and leave it to the undead but apparently that merits only a small change in the dialogue from if you saved it. I wanted to point out far more forcibly than I was allowed that the entire nobility of Ferelden had abdicated their responsibilities towards the ordinary people, which is the whole purpose for their existence. Yet the only means to really bring this home was with the aggressive disband speech, which is giving Teagan exactly what he and presumably the other nobles want and yet leaves the ordinary folk without someone to protect them. So you may feel aggrieved that you couldn't be evil enough but I was aggrieved that not enough people acknowledged that I wasn't. You can't really be good if you can't also, potentially, be evil. Or to put it another way: the lack of evil option makes the good "choice" meaningless. That's why I miss the proper evil stuff. The kind that's got consequences, not just a douchebag line of dialogue. I typically don't go for it, but it lets me play a good character (well, reasonably good... my guys usually aren't Andraste-level-of-goodness material) by actually going *against* the evil options. Also, I see your point about people's lack of acknowledgement of our good deeds -- although Teagan's reaction is very political. We're stealing his limelight, after all! Anyway, it goes both ways. People should be disgusted at some unpalatable War Table actions, for example... Would be fun to have a proper reputation system, e.g you could gain influence by intimidating people, or by helping them.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 10, 2017 13:33:38 GMT
I would have preferred the assessment of the Inquisition instead of being the rather bland diplomatic/spies/military in focus had instead been tyrant/champion of the people based off some of the decisions you make in the War Table missions. Mind you at least some of the companions can voice such an opinion. If Dorian doesn't approve of the Inquisitor's actions he refers to them/their organisation as a cancerous growth across the face of Thedas. When I saw that on You Tube it made me appreciate his approval because I knew that he was capable of voicing an alternative.
Of course, it would seem that because we are regarded as the Herald of Andraste regardless of how much we deny it and even in the face of evidence to the contrary, in fact we can do no wrong. Let's face it Drakon founded the Chantry on the back of wiping out all opposition and alternatives to his particular vision of Andrastrianism, so I suppose it is hardly surprising that moral choices are going to be pretty redundant in the eyes of the nobility. The ordinary peasant folk of course do not get a say. If they did, I'm pretty sure they would have opted for keeping my fully functioning Inquisition over the alternatives because they were the ones who had chiefly benefited from my actions.
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Post by wouter445 on Aug 10, 2017 17:29:04 GMT
This also rise the question why do Companions not band together to kill the inquisitor. Lets say you really work against Cassandra and Vivienne why do they not band together to kill the inquisitor I would say releasing the mages and not being very fond of chantry would be very dangers to them as threat.
This not include in the game makes it static and no consequences for player actions. bit better with the DLC that allow me to kill Iron bull btw only thing they did right.
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Post by thats1evildude on Aug 10, 2017 18:08:20 GMT
Killing the only person who can close Fade Rifts is not a particularly wise course of action when there are Fade Rifts all over the place.
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Post by tacsear on Aug 10, 2017 19:40:22 GMT
This also rise the question why do Companions not band together to kill the inquisitor. I really hope you said it as a joke or something
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 10, 2017 20:49:01 GMT
It might be a bad idea actually to kill the Inquisitor but they could certainly hold them under house arrest and lead them out in chains when they need them to deal with a rift. Solas amply demonstrated in the opening sequence that you don't actually have to be in control of the anchor mentally to close the rift - just point it in the right direction.
Strangely enough though the reason you are effectively untouchable is because of their continued insistence you are the Herald of Andraste despite your objections and the evidence to the contrary. The Chantry stalwarts have literally painted themselves into a corner with that one. At the beginning of the game people want to lynch you but after Haven and them giving you the position of Inquisitor, the majority of people associated with the organisation would probably lynch them if they laid hands on you. As Drakon, numerous Divines, the Templars and the Chevaliers have demonstrated, if you are thought to have divine right in what you do, you can get away with just about anything.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Aug 11, 2017 2:09:41 GMT
It might be a bad idea actually to kill the Inquisitor but they could certainly hold them under house arrest and lead them out in chains when they need them to deal with a rift. Solas amply demonstrated in the opening sequence that you don't actually have to be in control of the anchor mentally to close the rift - just point it in the right direction. Are we sure it works that way as a general rule, though? It'd be one thing if Cassandra did it because Solas told her she could, that would be a sign anyone could do it. But the Anchor was meant for Solas, and he shows at the end of Trespasser that he's at least capable of mentally controlling it without it being attached to him. And I think he must have had some control of it even before that, since he's able to stop it from killing the Inquisitor.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 11, 2017 10:26:46 GMT
Now I couldn't care less about playing evil because it's just not me but you listing this stuff does bring out something that really does annoy me and that is the fact that apparently Teagan is no different towards the Inquisition whether you are a paragon of virtue or an evil bastard. There is actually an option in the Keep that shows you can totally ignore the plight of Crestwood and leave it to the undead but apparently that merits only a small change in the dialogue from if you saved it. I wanted to point out far more forcibly than I was allowed that the entire nobility of Ferelden had abdicated their responsibilities towards the ordinary people, which is the whole purpose for their existence. Yet the only means to really bring this home was with the aggressive disband speech, which is giving Teagan exactly what he and presumably the other nobles want and yet leaves the ordinary folk without someone to protect them. So you may feel aggrieved that you couldn't be evil enough but I was aggrieved that not enough people acknowledged that I wasn't. You do realize that is basically how actual Nobles thought of common folks in general right? It's an infamous scene from Braveheart. Nobles believe the common people exist to provide them with Position, while William believed as you do, they their position exists to provide for the people. It's fairly accurate.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Aug 11, 2017 10:34:18 GMT
Now I couldn't care less about playing evil because it's just not me but you listing this stuff does bring out something that really does annoy me and that is the fact that apparently Teagan is no different towards the Inquisition whether you are a paragon of virtue or an evil bastard. There is actually an option in the Keep that shows you can totally ignore the plight of Crestwood and leave it to the undead but apparently that merits only a small change in the dialogue from if you saved it. I wanted to point out far more forcibly than I was allowed that the entire nobility of Ferelden had abdicated their responsibilities towards the ordinary people, which is the whole purpose for their existence. Yet the only means to really bring this home was with the aggressive disband speech, which is giving Teagan exactly what he and presumably the other nobles want and yet leaves the ordinary folk without someone to protect them. So you may feel aggrieved that you couldn't be evil enough but I was aggrieved that not enough people acknowledged that I wasn't. You do realize that is basically how actual Nobles thought of common folks in general right? It's an infamous scene from Braveheart. Nobles believe the common people exist to provide them with Position, while William believed as you do, they their position exists to provide for the people. It's fairly accurate. Well, Ferelden is supposed to believe that their position exists to provide for the people. (Supposed to.)
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Post by themikefest on Aug 11, 2017 12:25:26 GMT
Kill the Inquisitor? I like the idea. What about closing the rifts? What about them? After killing the Inquisitor, chop off his/her arm and point it at the rift. Rift closed. Not sure if that would happen, but what the heck. Its worth a try.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 11, 2017 16:17:25 GMT
You do realize that is basically how actual Nobles thought of common folks in general right? It's an infamous scene from Braveheart. Nobles believe the common people exist to provide them with Position, while William believed as you do, they their position exists to provide for the people. It's fairly accurate. Well, Ferelden is supposed to believe that their position exists to provide for the people. (Supposed to.) According to who, or what? There is little to showcase that. The King of Ferelden is elected to provide for the Teryns and the Arls, the Teryns provide for the Arls, and the Arls provide for the Banns. Some Banns choose to provide for their "common folk" but this is hardly a universal requirement, nor does it seem all that common.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 17:17:31 GMT
Kill the Inquisitor? I like the idea. What about closing the rifts? What about them? After killing the Inquisitor, chop off his/her arm and point it at the rift. Rift closed. Not sure if that would happen, but what the heck. Its worth a try. In my experience, things always work, no matter how absurd the premise, so this should definitely work.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 11, 2017 18:47:45 GMT
I can't remember if there were any codices in game in DAO but this idea of providing for the people comes from the Core Rule Book, which was pretty detailed on Ferelden as that was the first country they used in the game.
"Neither blood or birthright automatically entitles you to respect, and the nobles of Ferelden must earn their people's esteem."
"In Ferelden, unlike nearly all other countries in Thedas, members of the nobility are not thought to be intrinsically better or afforded more rights than any other class; they just have different ones. It is true that nobles are generally treated with deference but this is often due more to the (correct) assumption of martial ability than social status."
"The primary purpose of nobility in Ferelden is to fight for their people against all threats - human, darkspawn or otherwise. Whilst most Fereldens boast some martial ability, nobles are expected to excel at warfare - it is literally their "job". The nobles of Ferelden do not own the land. They likely have some small holdings...........but it is the freeholders who own the farms, the crops they produce, and the profits that come from selling their goods. In Ferelden this matters a great deal, because it is the commoners who are actually the patrons of the nobility. Each freehold chooses which bann or arl it gives its allegiance to and the decision is renewed each year. A group of freeholders dissatisfied with the protection they are getting from their local bann can remove their patronage and give it to another bann."
This was the culture of Ferelden as set out by the writers at the beginning of the series. Now you understand why I say that the nobles of Ferelden were conspicuous by their absence when it comes to protecting the people of Ferelden. Which is why it was perfectly within the bounds of Ferelden custom for the freeholders of Crestwood to tell Teagan that his protection sucked and they wanted to give their patronage to the Inquisition. Since the Inquisition also removed the bandits who were occupying the Keep, they also really had the right to continue using it, so long as they continued to do their duty by the freeholders.
One of the few references we had to a noble taking an interest in matters on War Table Mission at the beginning had him complaining about refugees squatting on his land and asking us to move them. Cullen, a Ferelden native, quite rightly suggests that we should help the refugees instead.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Aug 11, 2017 19:27:56 GMT
Kill the Inquisitor? I like the idea. What about closing the rifts? What about them? After killing the Inquisitor, chop off his/her arm and point it at the rift. Rift closed. Not sure if that would happen, but what the heck. Its worth a try. In my experience, things always work, no matter how absurd the premise, so this should definitely work. Well, this would be trying to be creative and not need the PC. In a Bioware game. That complicates things a bit.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 13, 2017 22:59:16 GMT
Things that are missing? How about whatever content they removed from the game that originally was set to the Ostagar theme they left in the audio files? Come to think of it, there is several tracks on that one compilation alone I don't ever recall hearing before. But given how rarely music actually plays, who knows.
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