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Revan Reborn
Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 15, 2017 20:53:43 GMT
They might as well call it a MMO-lite in that case, but they may want to distance themselves from the term like Blizzard did for the term MOBA. While higher difficulties took us a bit longer, we still had Eternity Vault cleared pretty quickly after launch. We'd probably have cleared it even faster but the game came out around Christmas so not everybody was able to put huge amounts of time into hitting level 50 as soon as possible. I do remember dealing with some bugs on Soa, but we managed to get through it. The thing is that even Soa wasn't terribly mechanically complicated compared to hard modes in Ulduar and heroic ICC that we had just spent the last while doing in WoW. The bugs were the hardest part of actually clearing it considering any given attempt had a significant chance of wiping purely due to a bug. I don't see a trinity working in Anthem due to the limited number of active abilities we appeared to have in the video. Either tanks and healers wont have all the tools they need, or the fights are going to be extremely basic in mechanics. They could still do raid-style content but it kind of depends on your definition of the term raid. There was a time in WoW when we considered 10 man content dungeons and raids were for 20 or 40 people. At launch Upper Blackrock Spire was even considered a 15 man dungeon. The main reason we called raids raids was because A. they were on a weekly reset timer and B. They required significantly more time investment and co-ordination to get on farm status. Although given what they've said thus far what they're aiming for with Anthem, I don't see MMO raids being a very good fit for the game. They're generally not great content for casual drop-in style MP. That's just silly then if Anthem ends up being an MMO-lite, much like Destiny. I don't see any benefit to BioWare trying to hide the ball from us. I'm honestly hoping that's not the case, however, as BioWare Austin is the MMO developer for BioWare. Soa was a mess, largely because parts of the floor sometimes would drop incorrectly and make it impossible to advance. My Republic raid group was the first on our server (Shien) to clear Nightmare EV. It took us 7 hours, straight, to down Soa because he kept bugging on us, or someone would make a stupid mistake and get one shot by a ball lightning. I'm sure you know all about how progression raiding goes. I agree that none of the mechanics in SWTOR are hard. Most of them are straightforward and is just a matter of managing duties and making sure folks don't make silly mistakes. That being said, I also think making fights heavily dependent on mechanics can be boring and lead to really cookie cutter gameplay. I'm of the opinion fights are going to be a straightforward 3rd person shooter. We've only learned a decent amount about the Ranger (balanced/all-purpose) and Colossus (tank/powerhouse) Javelins. Both seemed to be more than capable of handling themselves, and obviously had their own unique flare and abilities. I suppose the best comparison might be MEA MP, in terms of what kind of strategies and combat scenarios we might face (without cover of course). Raids, in my opinion, need at least six players, but typically eight by default (obviously old school raids could go anywhere from 16-40). Based on at least the initial info dump, it doesn't appear that party size will go beyond four players, which to me signifies more so coop RPG missions rather than raids or dungeons necessarily. There's always the possibility of there being some sort of repeatable endgame content that is tailored for four players that you could call a "raid." But, I don't foresee there being any sort of in-depth mechanics or the huge time investment that the average raid in an MMO usually is. I do believe one of the focuses of this game will be making it as accessible as possible, and raiding typically tends to divide communities. Not to mention, the grumblings over Best-in-Slot gear only being available in that content, or potentially PvP, etc., could lead to a lot of internal headaches for the studio. BioWare has revamped and overhauled the gear system in SWTOR several times since launch, and it's still arguably a jumbled mess. As long as I can have a fun game that I'm capable of playing either by myself or with buddies, and can explore cool environments with an interesting story, I'll probably be sold. I like the idea of flying around in an exosuit, not to mention the graphics were drop-dead gorgeous, so the game has that much going for it.
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Cyonan
2,189
Jul 31, 2016 20:55:30 GMT
July 2016
admin
Cyonan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Cyonan
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Post by Cyonan on Aug 15, 2017 22:29:28 GMT
That's just silly then if Anthem ends up being an MMO-lite, much like Destiny. I don't see any benefit to BioWare trying to hide the ball from us. I'm honestly hoping that's not the case, however, as BioWare Austin is the MMO developer for BioWare. Soa was a mess, largely because parts of the floor sometimes would drop incorrectly and make it impossible to advance. My Republic raid group was the first on our server (Shien) to clear Nightmare EV. It took us 7 hours, straight, to down Soa because he kept bugging on us, or someone would make a stupid mistake and get one shot by a ball lightning. I'm sure you know all about how progression raiding goes. I agree that none of the mechanics in SWTOR are hard. Most of them are straightforward and is just a matter of managing duties and making sure folks don't make silly mistakes. That being said, I also think making fights heavily dependent on mechanics can be boring and lead to really cookie cutter gameplay. I'm of the opinion fights are going to be a straightforward 3rd person shooter. We've only learned a decent amount about the Ranger (balanced/all-purpose) and Colossus (tank/powerhouse) Javelins. Both seemed to be more than capable of handling themselves, and obviously had their own unique flare and abilities. I suppose the best comparison might be MEA MP, in terms of what kind of strategies and combat scenarios we might face (without cover of course). Raids, in my opinion, need at least six players, but typically eight by default (obviously old school raids could go anywhere from 16-40). Based on at least the initial info dump, it doesn't appear that party size will go beyond four players, which to me signifies more so coop RPG missions rather than raids or dungeons necessarily. There's always the possibility of there being some sort of repeatable endgame content that is tailored for four players that you could call a "raid." But, I don't foresee there being any sort of in-depth mechanics or the huge time investment that the average raid in an MMO usually is. I do believe one of the focuses of this game will be making it as accessible as possible, and raiding typically tends to divide communities. Not to mention, the grumblings over Best-in-Slot gear only being available in that content, or potentially PvP, etc., could lead to a lot of internal headaches for the studio. BioWare has revamped and overhauled the gear system in SWTOR several times since launch, and it's still arguably a jumbled mess. As long as I can have a fun game that I'm capable of playing either by myself or with buddies, and can explore cool environments with an interesting story, I'll probably be sold. I like the idea of flying around in an exosuit, not to mention the graphics were drop-dead gorgeous, so the game has that much going for it. Personally I prefer the fights with more mechanics to them as I remember the days of Molten Core in WoW where mechanics were extremely simplistic, but also extremely punishing if you didn't follow them. That raid earned the nickname "Molten Bore" for a reason. Though they don't all need to be as crazy as hard mode Mimiron in Ulduar where you had 4 phases worth of mechanics and a constant fire hazard to manage, with each phase having its own management mechanic. As much as I do love that fight, it would be very tiresome if they were all like that. I think if Anthem did have dungeon like things that took a co-ordinated effort to down and it was expected it was going to take upwards of a month for people to be able to clear it, I'd probably call that thing a raid. Though obviously with only 4 people and likely no trinity there wouldn't be advanced mechanics that require tanks or healers. Though as much as I like boss fights with complex mechanics I don't think I want Anthem to be another raid loot treadmill like game. I can already play WoW for that, and for all the other flaws the game has now raid boss design is still pretty top notch. I just hope that they don't resort to making the game incredibly RNG heavy to prevent people from gearing up too quickly. Some RNG is to be expected, but I don't want to see Diablo 3 levels of RNG.
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Aug 30, 2023 16:01:17 GMT
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PapaCharlie9
3,851
August 2016
papacharlie9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 16, 2017 2:49:03 GMT
I am going to bet on MP > SP with a fairily advanced, non-Trinity mechanics that favours a premade group, and the casual pugsLFs will often fail as rewards for a specific encounter increase. Takers? Not me. "Favors a premade group" is way too Overwatchlike. I mean, they could do that, but given how many me-too comparisons are at risk, they'd have to execute brilliantly to make up for the lack of novelty -- kind of like HZD did. MP > SP may also be a non sequitor, if there is no SP. I think SP will just be degenerate MP: a squad of one, yourself. Not that that is necessarily a bad thing. I played Destiny that way and enjoyed it just fine. But who knows? They may surprise us and have stuff that is only unlocked when you have friends in your squad, and other stuff that only unlocks if you are alone. Apart from fully standalone SP campaigns, I don't think any co-op game has ever done that.
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Revan Reborn
Pathfinder
2,000
Feb 19, 2017 18:14:40 GMT
February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
Pax_Augusta01
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 16, 2017 3:15:10 GMT
Personally I prefer the fights with more mechanics to them as I remember the days of Molten Core in WoW where mechanics were extremely simplistic, but also extremely punishing if you didn't follow them. That raid earned the nickname "Molten Bore" for a reason. Though they don't all need to be as crazy as hard mode Mimiron in Ulduar where you had 4 phases worth of mechanics and a constant fire hazard to manage, with each phase having its own management mechanic. As much as I do love that fight, it would be very tiresome if they were all like that. I think if Anthem did have dungeon like things that took a co-ordinated effort to down and it was expected it was going to take upwards of a month for people to be able to clear it, I'd probably call that thing a raid. Though obviously with only 4 people and likely no trinity there wouldn't be advanced mechanics that require tanks or healers. Though as much as I like boss fights with complex mechanics I don't think I want Anthem to be another raid loot treadmill like game. I can already play WoW for that, and for all the other flaws the game has now raid boss design is still pretty top notch. I just hope that they don't resort to making the game incredibly RNG heavy to prevent people from gearing up too quickly. Some RNG is to be expected, but I don't want to see Diablo 3 levels of RNG. I certainly would not be opposed to variety in fights. Even with boss creatures, they are likely to have unique skill sets and varying behaviors to keep the game interesting. I would just rather fights not get too technical, to the point of regurgitating the same strategies time and time again ad nauseam. Now, I'd be in favor of encounters that were perhaps inspired by dragon fights in DAI and remnant architects in MEA. Each of those encounters has multiple phases, various adds, and they typically keep the player moving and busy. It's certainly possible that BioWare may have some sort of endgame feature that correlates to that idea of advanced PvE content. I'm still hesitant that BioWare would actually do it, largely because of issues addressed earlier about trying to be accessible to a large audience. Make content too hard, or a grind fest, and that could immediately turn off a lot of folks and end up being content for a niche audience. My thoughts exactly. There are already plenty of traditional MMOs that have quality raid content. I see no reason for BioWare to even try to mimic that in Anthem, given the gameplay wouldn't really facilitate such an experience anyway. Not to mention, BioWare already has a game built for raiding and that endgame PvE experience. SWTOR's existence is part of the reason I don't believe Anthem will even remotely be similar to an MMO, lite or otherwise. I can't see BioWare cannibalizing its own sales by having two products that are too similar. Nobody likes oppressive RNG. I certainly won't mind having to put in some effort to earn quality gear, but the experience should largely be about just having fun. The last thing the game needs is to institute an arbitrary grind for months just to keep people busy. That's poor MMO design that I do not want to see rear its ugly head in Anthem.
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