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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Aug 21, 2017 4:43:12 GMT
It's not canon to me. I consider it a standalone on its own; Andromeda. It's not Mass Effect. And the endings are fine by me, doesn't make them good, though. It is Mass Effect, it's part of continuity, you have no such power to determine that. So I guess you will just have to suck it and stop the bickering over that around here. OP asked a question / opinion in the forum, I answered it. It's my opinion, my view on how I view the game. How strange it's considered bickering. *shrug*
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Post by paradigm on Aug 21, 2017 4:46:01 GMT
Due to the Scourge, internal politics, the Archon, and difficulties adapting to local conditions, after a difficult start and then a promising continuation, the entire Andromeda Initiative failed. There were no survivors. There, now it's canon. I don't think you know what "canon" means... It's funny that you talk about not knowing what things mean
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Aug 21, 2017 4:46:21 GMT
And the endings are fine by me, doesn't make them good, though. It is Mass Effect, it's part of continuity, you have no such power to determine that. So I guess you will just have to suck it and stop the bickering over that around here. OP asked a question / opinion in the forum, I answered it. It's my opinion, my view on how I view the game. How strange it's considered bickering. *shrug* It's not an opinion if it's a fact, and the fact is MEA is canon. I'm not saying that's a good thing, though
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Aug 21, 2017 4:53:00 GMT
OP asked a question / opinion in the forum, I answered it. It's my opinion, my view on how I view the game. How strange it's considered bickering. *shrug* It's not an opinion if it's a fact, and the fact is MEA is canon. I'm not saying that's a good thing, though I already stated that my post was an answer to the OP. That's the end of it. If you have a problem with it, I can do nothing about it. *shrug* End of Line.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Aug 21, 2017 4:54:40 GMT
I don't think you know what "canon" means... It's funny that you talk about not knowing what things mean Um... Yes? I mean, it's funny, that's why I pointed it out. For humorous effect. Because ignorance is funny.
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Post by SwobyJ on Aug 21, 2017 7:01:18 GMT
Millennials huh. I recall it was Gen X nerds going on and on about Star Wars canon. And I'm certain both of us gens were not the only ones. *cough theology cough*Actually you're arguing a point i'm not even making. Prior to the new films they decided all the EU books were not canon. kinda hamfisted but their prerogative. My point is that canon is canon. there is no "my canon." that's a millenial thing. Like I was saying, arguments about what is canon is nothing new. I've already seen the older nerds getting into long debates about 'true canon' for Star Wars and other series. You're wrong. If anything, millennials are more accepting that canon shifts depending on media. Star Wars 'canon' was such a mess and the fandom had to create several layers for it. Just to be 'true'.
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Post by laughingbanana on Aug 21, 2017 7:29:48 GMT
It's canon, whether you like it or not.
However, it's a stupid canon, because its existence necessitates so many justifications that breaks suspension of disbelief or any sense of logic if you give it even just the smallest amount of thought.
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Post by ross42899 on Aug 21, 2017 7:32:29 GMT
1) Although Bioware/EA pulled the plug and the game had some issues at launch, I don't consider the game itself a failure (but I do consider Bioware's/EA's policy about the game and support a failure). I enjoyed it and had fun while it lasted.
2) It's an official ME game made by Bioware and not a fan game. So i don't see why it shouldn't be canon.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 21, 2017 8:37:54 GMT
How can unfinished and untold stories be canon?
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Post by mannyray on Aug 21, 2017 8:56:43 GMT
Actually you're arguing a point i'm not even making. Prior to the new films they decided all the EU books were not canon. kinda hamfisted but their prerogative. My point is that canon is canon. there is no "my canon." that's a millenial thing. Like I was saying, arguments about what is canon is nothing new. I've already seen the older nerds getting into long debates about 'true canon' for Star Wars and other series. You're wrong. If anything, millennials are more accepting that canon shifts depending on media. Star Wars 'canon' was such a mess and the fandom had to create several layers for it. Just to be 'true'. again you should read before commenting. the assertion of this thread is "one man's canon is another's apocrypha" basically and that's not true. you're arguing a point I'm not even making. some people believe that because they dont' like ME:A it's not official canon. that's wrong. that's the point. It's canon whether you like it or not. read.
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Post by SwobyJ on Aug 21, 2017 9:21:51 GMT
Like I was saying, arguments about what is canon is nothing new. I've already seen the older nerds getting into long debates about 'true canon' for Star Wars and other series. You're wrong. If anything, millennials are more accepting that canon shifts depending on media. Star Wars 'canon' was such a mess and the fandom had to create several layers for it. Just to be 'true'. again you should read before commenting. the assertion of this thread is "one man's canon is another's apocrypha" basically and that's not true. you're arguing a point I'm not even making. some people believe that because they dont' like ME:A it's not official canon. that's wrong. that's the point. It's canon whether you like it or not. read. I read it. You made it generational. I was responding to that. Read.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 21, 2017 9:24:42 GMT
Is this thread canon?
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Post by steamshipman on Aug 21, 2017 10:45:34 GMT
My English is... I know. Sorry. Basically, canon means "official version" of the story. You can't do anything about that. You can't just step forward and declare that "from now on, official version has become unofficial". In other words this quote is a way to go: It's made by Bioware and says "Mass Effect" on the box. Anyone claiming it isn't canon to them is fine to do so, but their beliefs aren't grounded in reality until Bioware themselves says otherwise. But we speak about story, right? When someone telling/creating a story, once the story took some distinctive and comprehensible form, it comes to its own live within heads of attentive audience, who process the story through their own past experiences and perception of the world. Since any story is at least somewhat based on our experience of reality we are living in, it means that story is constantly being checked for believability. Something in the lines of "Could this truly happen in reality if established by the author himself rules were true?" If we speak about mature, living story, and not about some whim-directed daydreaming, then story have some level of independence from author from here on. He has to oblige. Otherwise he can discard, or retcon, or introduce something what doesn't quite belong, and therefore cripple of even break his own story. So storyline can be canon ("This is official! Stop asking questions!") while its 'officiality' isn't grounded in sub-reality of the story. You are audience. So if canon doesn't respect story, why you should respect canon? If canon prefers to ignore its rules feel free to ignore it in response. If canon turn story into a joke, you are right to ridicule the hell out of it.
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Post by mannyray on Aug 21, 2017 10:48:05 GMT
again you should read before commenting. the assertion of this thread is "one man's canon is another's apocrypha" basically and that's not true. you're arguing a point I'm not even making. some people believe that because they dont' like ME:A it's not official canon. that's wrong. that's the point. It's canon whether you like it or not. read. I read it. You made it generational. I was responding to that. Read. The notion of "doesn't count cause I said so" is a millenial thing. this is coming from a Gen X-r. I did read, thank you. And once again my point is just because you don't like something doesn't suddenly make it not canon. If it's canon for me it's canon for you and everyone else.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Aug 21, 2017 14:40:43 GMT
My English is... I know. Sorry. Basically, canon means "official version" of the story. You can't do anything about that. You can't just step forward and declare that "from now on, official version has become unofficial". In other words this quote is a way to go: It's made by Bioware and says "Mass Effect" on the box. Anyone claiming it isn't canon to them is fine to do so, but their beliefs aren't grounded in reality until Bioware themselves says otherwise. But we speak about story, right? When someone telling/creating a story, once the story took some distinctive and comprehensible form, it comes to its own live within heads of attentive audience, who process the story through their own past experiences and perception of the world. Since any story is at least somewhat based on our experience of reality we are living in, it means that story is constantly being checked for believability. Something in the lines of "Could this truly happen in reality if established by the author himself rules were true?" If we speak about mature, living story, and not about some whim-directed daydreaming, then story have some level of independence from author from here on. He has to oblige. Otherwise he can discard, or retcon, or introduce something what doesn't quite belong, and therefore cripple of even break his own story. So storyline can be canon ("This is official! Stop asking questions!") while its 'officiality' isn't grounded in sub-reality of the story. You are audience. So if canon doesn't respect story, why you should respect canon? If canon prefers to ignore its rules feel free to ignore it in response. If canon turn story into a joke, you are right to ridicule the hell out of it. Er....K. It doesn't really matter how much you like or dislike something in canon, it's still canon. The Star Wars prequel movies are canon, whether people like them or not. Midichlorians are canon, no matter how much they don't fit in to what the Original Trilogy stated about the force, until someone at Disney says they aren't canon. All the weird stuff that happens as the Resident Evil movie franchise is still canon (for the film universe) regardless of if you think it's way too bizarre or not a good story. Canon is canon, it's not an opinion. So sure, you can feel free to ridicule things in canon that you find to be a "joke" or whatever, but that doesn't change what is and what is not canon. Canon is canon, whether you like it or not. Andromeda is canon, whether you like it or not. Until Bioware says otherwise. Until then, anyone saying it's not is within their right to do so, but their opinion is not grounded in reality, because in reality it is canon, and that is not an opinion. See?
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 21, 2017 14:53:56 GMT
It's canon, whether you like it or not. However, it's a stupid canon, because its existence necessitates so many justifications that breaks suspension of disbelief or any sense of logic if you give it even just the smallest amount of thought. And my perspective is that ME was always pretty stupid. ME:A added a couple of whoppers, but if stupidity bothered me I wouldn't have been here to see them. So I guess we agree on the topic. It's canon.
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Post by vometia on Aug 21, 2017 15:00:02 GMT
It's canon, whether you like it or not. However, it's a stupid canon, because its existence necessitates so many justifications that breaks suspension of disbelief or any sense of logic if you give it even just the smallest amount of thought. It's still less stupid than ME3. Then again, Big Rigs is less stupid than ME3 but ME3 still manages to be canon. I dunno, I figure they made the best of a bad job with Andromeda and I'm rather sad that they appeared to give up on it before it was even launched. It was okay, and with a little extra effort it could've been really good: I think it wasn't the concept that was flawed but that they couldn't be arsed to make it a success. But I guess that's not the point, the point is I have less difficulty accepting it as canon than some of the other things they've done.
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Post by SwobyJ on Aug 21, 2017 17:43:06 GMT
I read it. You made it generational. I was responding to that. Read. The notion of "doesn't count cause I said so" is a millenial thing. this is coming from a Gen X-r. I did read, thank you. And once again my point is just because you don't like something doesn't suddenly make it not canon. If it's canon for me it's canon for you and everyone else. Its like you, ironically, ignore history.
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Post by mannyray on Aug 21, 2017 20:21:49 GMT
ME:A is an official ME game from BioWare, the official developer. Therefore, it is canon. My point exactly. Now if bioware wanted to be uberstupid and say "it was all a dream" or "meanwhile not in the alternate universe ME:A" happened in... that would become canon, albeit, also damn stupid.
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Post by SwobyJ on Aug 21, 2017 20:49:42 GMT
Bioware already told us how they do canon anyway.
ME1 is canon to ME2. ME2 is canon to ME3. ME3 is canon to MEA.
Generally. Except in some cases. Dying in a Game Over is canon to the game you're in, but its a stupid ending and you should reload. 'Romancing' Morinth is canon to your ME2 but its not anything of ME3. Shepard Dies in ME2 is the same thing, where we'd have to headcanon or fanfic what would happen with the Reapers and Milky Way after.
We can certainly, for now at least, choose to imagine MEA as a non-canon offshoot to the MET. In many functional ways, it effectively is. However, MEA itself doesn't do that, and likely most to all future media won't do that either. You can go 'lalala' and stick to MET and ignore the rest of the franchise, and I'd say that's okay and all, but it doesn't affect how Bioware treats canon internally. You're not likely to get a next game that considers MEA to not happen. At most, you'd get a next game that barely references MEA and even when it does, it might do so in a handwavey retcony way. But I don't expect this. I expect that in any future game, MEA will have happened and mattered, though perhaps not as much as if MEA was a super successful game for Bioware (and perhaps not even than, seeing how SWTOR treated KOTOR, and such).
There's Dragon Age secondary media that pretends you took a particular story path in the games, but all Bioware asks for us is that we just headcanon an alternate story for that if applicable. Mass Effect secondary media doesn't seem to go that far, but it does do a 'Shepard/Ryder wasn't there/wasn't relevant so this thing happened but we can ignore that it happened for the most part, most times' sorta thing. If the Ark book sucks, we can pretend it never happened. But it did. But screw the details, if we want them to go away.
This mentality also helps a lot of people when navigating other fandoms like Star Wars 'Legends' continuities (or lack thereof). There's writers that are ignorant of, or outright hostile to what was previously 'canon'. This especially happens in Doctor Who, to the point that arguing about canon is pointless because the writers themselves consistently do not factor it in except in particular cheesy twists and references. But fact is, MET games were canon to MEA and MEA will likely be canon to any future main title so get used to it. Oh no, the ODSY drive! Whatever. It happened.
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 21, 2017 21:16:17 GMT
Is this thread canon? Christ I hope not. I'm hoping the forum can turn off this road of conjecture and assumption and conflict over opinion and move on to more interesting and concrete things now that the DLC question has been answered.
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Post by glockwheeler on Aug 21, 2017 21:29:19 GMT
Canon? Not so much. An escape from the end of the original trilogy? Absolutely.
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Post by steamshipman on Aug 22, 2017 2:01:17 GMT
Until Bioware says otherwise. Until then, anyone saying it's not is within their right to do so, but their opinion is not grounded in reality, because in reality it is canon, and that is not an opinion. See? Er....K. I said exactly that in my post. Perhaps, OP should express his thoughts better and change to "do you consider it canon in your headcanon?", so he wouldn't get "millennials hur dur" responses. What I added is that canon can offer you pretty much broken story, story that simply doesn't work. And that you have relationships with story, and if you are invested, you inevitably contribute to it too. Only in your head, yes, but it means that you don't just have one-sided relationships with the "words of god". Yes, there is a canon. But you don't have to believe it. Because well... you, and I'm sure I can mean you personally, you do this too. In case of ME, you have giant plot hole with "not needing a counduit" in first ME. You have project Lazarus and "now we ARE friends with Cerberus" and hysterically screaming giant baby terminator in second ME. You have giant device of pure magic in SciFi setting, and "now we are NOT friends with Cerberus", and The endings in third ME. Basically, there wouldn't be MEA if people would perceive canon as the "words of god" and actually believed it, because they would stop having relationships with this bullshit. Edit: at the very least you creating blindspots. You simply can't enjoy ME without it.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 22, 2017 2:04:48 GMT
Who is this "we?" Not me and many many others. Stop assuming we all agree with you.
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Post by xeternalxdreams on Aug 22, 2017 2:13:49 GMT
I do not think it's a failure. I consider it canon.
It felt like a spin-off though. Like something to add the the ME universe but not directly a series on it's own.
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