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Jul 23, 2017 14:45:13 GMT
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Post by l0rdv1ct0r on Sept 1, 2017 15:44:54 GMT
TL;DR? The DD implementation is far different than the D&D rules.
I love both games, NWN is my favorite RPG of all time and BG is in top 10 RPG's of my life but din't liked the DD implementation of this class. For example. According to DnD 3.5 rules you can choose what kind of dragon you can transform
Souce : dndtools.net/classes/dragon-disciple/
In both games, you can only be a Red Dragon disciple. You can't choose for example be a silver dragon disciple. Note that :
- Silver dragons and other dragons are implemented in nwn1
- His breach weapon are implemented
- immunity to cold, acid, etc are implemented
Here is a table about your gains in DnD 3.5e
Source : www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Dragon_Disciple
Now in nwn :
source : nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Dragon_Disciple
The differences :
- Hit dice is far different
- No claw for unarmed combat in nwn
- No spell slot gain
- Can't take dragon form
- Your race din't change do "half-dragon" in nwn(NOTE : Not sure, this according to a gog user, i never leveled DD to lv 10 since don't worth it)
- Wings makes only cosmetic difference
This makes every difference. A lv 20 sorc is much better than a lv 10 sorc/lv 10 DD in nwn due this "nerfs". Taking level as a DD means that you will need spend more time to get high level spells and will not get more spell slots... If spells like shapechange and dragon form is already implemented in nwn1, as a lv9 spell and the epic Dragon shape allow you to use a breath? Apparently DD is only useful after you learn all epic level spells, to get more HP and a cool wing since the majority of spells cap at caster lv 20/25/30, except few spells like Mestil's acid sheath and Elemental shield that are far more useful with more health than with more caster health.
In BG this is a base class, IMHO worth picking but isn't like nwn...
PS : I not talked about this class in nwn2 since casters are useless in nwn2
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,875 Likes: 49,330
inherit
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Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,330
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20,875
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Sept 12, 2017 21:35:58 GMT
BG uses second edition rules, so the Dragon Disciple prestige class didn't exist. Instead they sorta backwards-converted it into a kit.
But the NWN version I found to be practically broken if you have a warrior type (like a fighter or paladin) take a single level of sorcerer to qualify for the class. The boost to strength and armor class, immunity to fire and paralysis, nice stuff when you're going toe-to-toe with a demon. Probably not so much if you're going spellcaster though.
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l0rdv1ct0r
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Jul 23, 2017 14:45:13 GMT
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Post by l0rdv1ct0r on Sept 24, 2017 4:39:21 GMT
BG uses second edition rules, so the Dragon Disciple prestige class didn't exist. Instead they sorta backwards-converted it into a kit. But the NWN version I found to be practically broken if you have a warrior type (like a fighter or paladin) take a single level of sorcerer to qualify for the class. The boost to strength and armor class, immunity to fire and paralysis, nice stuff when you're going toe-to-toe with a demon. Probably not so much if you're going spellcaster though. With the D&D rules, i pick the DD, with this nwn rules, is useless for casters... I don't know why only "red/fire" in this "half implementations"(like arcane archer that can only imbue fireball)? Everyone who was read the monster manual knows that red dragons tends to be chaotic evil and don't interact well with humans. Silver Dragons are probably the mostly like dragon to interbreed with humans or elves, they don't devour intelligent creatures, "an unusual trait they offer is the love of human dining," source > forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Silver_dragonI can imagine a silver dragon in festivals drinking and interbreeding with other races, but red dragons... Also, this limitation limits the roleplay aspect. Why i can't make a character inspired in Kall-Su(a character of bastardmanga who have a cold dragon bloodline)? |
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Sept 26, 2017 11:02:50 GMT
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Sept 24, 2017 18:39:20 GMT
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Post by Superhik on Oct 7, 2017 17:33:21 GMT
I'm not familiar with DnD, but this and shapeshifter were a waste of potential. Man, I'd want to see NWN III, but can't see BW jumping, in any future. Eh, why isn't Obsidian on it?
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,875 Likes: 49,330
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,330
Iakus
20,875
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Oct 7, 2017 20:02:19 GMT
BG uses second edition rules, so the Dragon Disciple prestige class didn't exist. Instead they sorta backwards-converted it into a kit. But the NWN version I found to be practically broken if you have a warrior type (like a fighter or paladin) take a single level of sorcerer to qualify for the class. The boost to strength and armor class, immunity to fire and paralysis, nice stuff when you're going toe-to-toe with a demon. Probably not so much if you're going spellcaster though. With the D&D rules, i pick the DD, with this nwn rules, is useless for casters... I don't know why only "red/fire" in this "half implementations"(like arcane archer that can only imbue fireball)? Everyone who was read the monster manual knows that red dragons tends to be chaotic evil and don't interact well with humans. Silver Dragons are probably the mostly like dragon to interbreed with humans or elves, they don't devour intelligent creatures, "an unusual trait they offer is the love of human dining," source > forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Silver_dragonI can imagine a silver dragon in festivals drinking and interbreeding with other races, but red dragons... Also, this limitation limits the roleplay aspect. Why i can't make a character inspired in Kall-Su(a character of bastardmanga who have a cold dragon bloodline)? Probably because we'd need to have ten different stripes of Dragon Disciple, one for each chromatic and metallic dragon. Might be doable, given the eight specialty schools for wizards, but might hav ebeen more trouble than it was worth to program into the game. As for Why red? Well, in D&D, the red dragon, while far from the most sociable dragon, is still the most iconic.  |
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Jul 23, 2017 14:45:13 GMT
July 2017
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Post by l0rdv1ct0r on Oct 11, 2017 18:07:00 GMT
With the D&D rules, i pick the DD, with this nwn rules, is useless for casters... I don't know why only "red/fire" in this "half implementations"(like arcane archer that can only imbue fireball)? Everyone who was read the monster manual knows that red dragons tends to be chaotic evil and don't interact well with humans. Silver Dragons are probably the mostly like dragon to interbreed with humans or elves, they don't devour intelligent creatures, "an unusual trait they offer is the love of human dining," source > forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Silver_dragonI can imagine a silver dragon in festivals drinking and interbreeding with other races, but red dragons... Also, this limitation limits the roleplay aspect. Why i can't make a character inspired in Kall-Su(a character of bastardmanga who have a cold dragon bloodline)? Probably because we'd need to have ten different stripes of Dragon Disciple, one for each chromatic and metallic dragon. Might be doable, given the eight specialty schools for wizards, but might hav ebeen more trouble than it was worth to program into the game. As for Why red? Well, in D&D, the red dragon, while far from the most sociable dragon, is still the most iconic. Imagine if they implement only "Fire" domain for cleric and ... This will be ridiculous. Also, almost all metalic/flesh dragons are already implemented in game and apparently the unique difference is the 'skin' texture, dragon form from epic druid allow you to shapechange into different dragonkin. And only a correction, the rules that i've mentioned are from pathfinder. The RPC implemented correctly the class www.athasreborn.com/prc/manual/english/content/prestige_classes/37.htmlThe class that i will play will be the Dragonheart Mage www.athasreborn.com/prc/manual/english/content/prestige_classes/37.html |
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