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Post by Lazarillo on Sept 21, 2017 4:15:04 GMT
Especially because it appears that Destiny 2 which is considered Anthem's biggest competition has stumbled on the story aspect and done something that's simply serviceable rather than really good. That said, as someone who played SWTOR pretty much since launch, I feel like the sentiment among a large part of the playerbase was that they didn't want BW catering to their story-driven niche. While it pulled me in, and even away (somewhat), from the other MMO I was playing at the time exactly because of the way it was presented, demand (in the request sense, not the marketing sense) seemed to be to make it more like other MMOs. There's also the fact that the other side of demand (this case in the marketing sense) is saturation. If Anthem is "Destiny 2 but with different lore", that may not necessarily be enough to make it stand out as a rival. Heck, even if Anthem is "Destiny 2 but with better lore", if that's not what people are playing Destiny for in the first place, then it still just gets dumped in with the other knockoffs. So with that in mind, does it need the pre-existing fanbase of their single-player, story-driven RPGs for Anthem? Not really, but I think it comes down to two questions, rather than one. First: "If it succeeds, will it do so even if it fails to draw in its more traditional fanbase?" Yes. Second: "Does the above mean it will succeed even if it fails to draw in its more traditional fanbase?" No.
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 21, 2017 10:52:51 GMT
I'm expecting an overlap between 'old' and 'new' fans. I'm also expecting BioWare to be anticipating a larger player base for Anthem. How much overlap and how many more consumers remains to be seen.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 21, 2017 15:29:07 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
why-video-games-cost-much-make.
Speaking of fan base, it seems that Anthem will be a very expensive one to make. The article I just read (link below) is quite an eye opener. A studio is looking at appx. $10k/month/person. If Anthem has an actual team development of 18 months (not game design time), that is 10K*18 = 180K dollars for one person. Sometime ago I read that Bio had appx 200 people working on DAI/MEA (if memory serves). Assuming same for Anthem, we are looking at 180K * 200 = 36 million dollars for salary only. Now add taxes, rental, marketing, travel and this game easily reaches 80-100 million. At $60 dollars a pop EA needs to sell 100m/60 = 1.7m copies to come out even.
EA/Bio really needs to get its marketing strategy right to reach its internal sales numbers = gives them their target profit margin.
(🌸=◡=)
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Post by Iakus on Sept 21, 2017 21:12:16 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
why-video-games-cost-much-make.
Speaking of fan base, it seems that Anthem will be a very expensive one to make. The article I just read (link below) is quite an eye opener. A studio is looking at appx. $10k/month/person. If Anthem has an actual team development of 18 months (not game design time), that is 10K*18 = 180K dollars for one person. Sometime ago I read that Bio had appx 200 people working on DAI/MEA (if memory serves). Assuming same for Anthem, we are looking at 180K * 200 = 36 million dollars for salary only. Now add taxes, rental, marketing, travel and this game easily reaches 80-100 million. At $60 dollars a pop EA needs to sell 100m/60 = 1.7m copies to come out even.
EA/Bio really needs to get its marketing strategy right to reach its internal sales numbers = gives them their target profit margin.
(🌸=◡=) That's absolutely ridiculous. They'd truly need "Call of Duty's audience" to get that. And I don't think they've had that even at their start. Heck Call of Duty didn't have those numbers when they started.
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 21, 2017 22:22:07 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
why-video-games-cost-much-make.
Speaking of fan base, it seems that Anthem will be a very expensive one to make. The article I just read (link below) is quite an eye opener. A studio is looking at appx. $10k/month/person. If Anthem has an actual team development of 18 months (not game design time), that is 10K*18 = 180K dollars for one person. Sometime ago I read that Bio had appx 200 people working on DAI/MEA (if memory serves). Assuming same for Anthem, we are looking at 180K * 200 = 36 million dollars for salary only. Now add taxes, rental, marketing, travel and this game easily reaches 80-100 million. At $60 dollars a pop EA needs to sell 100m/60 = 1.7m copies to come out even.
EA/Bio really needs to get its marketing strategy right to reach its internal sales numbers = gives them their target profit margin.
(🌸=◡=) That's absolutely ridiculous. They'd truly need "Call of Duty's audience" to get that. And I don't think they've had that even at their height. Heck Call of Duty didn't have those numbers when they started. Mass Effect 2 sold 2 million copies to retailers in the first week, it definitely isn't outside the realm of possibility.
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PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Sept 21, 2017 22:32:30 GMT
If what you mean to say is that people drawn to the story and such of single player games aren't asking for MP, you may be right. However, many of those same players will still enjoy MP, which increases the lifespan of the game, keeping people playing longer. There are also players who were not interested particularly in that single player experience who are interested by the idea of playing with friends. The idea that developers are putting in MP despite there being no demand simply isn't the case though. I disagree that an MP keeps a game alive longer. In my opinion, it is much more repetitive than SP gameplay and gets boring fast. That is because in SP, developers must put in a lot more content than in MP, thus creating a greater diversity in SP. Now, I have plaid 400 hours in ME 3 MP, but am burnt out from it as well as annoyed and aggravated that at one point you stop unlocking the ultra rare items and start getting only boost, and that is why RNG sucks. Haven't touched MEA MP at all. Also, generally, story in shared world and MP environments gets watered down, and that doesn't matter how good the story is. You get distracted by people who are playing with you, either by chatting with them, coordinating attacks or simply arguing with randoms. That has all happened to me in MP a lot. Just look at the original Titanfall, not only did vary few people cared for the story or paid attention to it, but most abandoned the game after a while, leaving it unplayable, which is another reason why it is a bad idea to combine story and MP. While PUBG, DOTA 2, and overwatch have succeeded enormously, other games who are MP focused, like Evolve, Battleborn, Law breakers , For Honor, have failed miserably and are unplayable right now. Not to mention Dead Space 3 was transformed from a survival horror to an action buddy 3rd person shooter, which is why not why fans play it, thus it sold horribly.Doom 4 MP sucks, and that had nothing to do with the SP which was awesome by the way. Also, not every SP focused game benefits from MP. I preferred if they actually hired more programmers and 3d Modelers for MEA instead of network engineers for the MP. Finally, I do not like when MP invades Sp. In ME3, when it launched, you had to play the MP to get all the points to unlock all the endings. The point of it is not how good or bad the ME3 ending were, but the fact that you had to play a mode that many didn't ask for to unlock the SP content. This is the worst thing ever in games, for my SP content to depend on other people. And this is the point that annoys me the most. I have said the same thing before. I don't get what is so hard for some people to understand that concept. I mean there are other games that have a MP Mode like Fable 2, Fable 3, Tomb Raider, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Saint's Row: The Third, and Saints Row IV that weren't exactly known for their great MP modes and I doubt that that many people are still playing the MP modes of those games I mentioned but they were better known for how good or bad (depending on one's own opinion is/was) on their SP mode.
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Post by Steelcan on Sept 22, 2017 4:16:44 GMT
I wonder if Destiny 2 stumbling out of the gate is indicative that these sorts of games just aren't as popular as developers seem to think they will be or just exclusive to Destiny itself.
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 22, 2017 5:41:42 GMT
*snip*
"EA/Bio really needs to get its marketing strategy right..."
This part concerns me. I'm philosophically pretty supportive of BioWare's activities but its marketing prowess wouldn't be top of my list of accomplishments.
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Post by PillarBiter on Sept 22, 2017 10:35:01 GMT
*snip*
"EA/Bio really needs to get its marketing strategy right..."
This part concerns me. I'm philosophically pretty supportive of BioWare's activities but its marketing prowess wouldn't be top of my list of accomplishments. They have this weird combination of fumbling age-old proven marketing methods and trying to unsuccesfully invent new types of marketing, all the while blowing both hot and cold in every way imaginable with their own fans.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 22, 2017 11:15:17 GMT
I wonder if Destiny 2 stumbling out of the gate is indicative that these sorts of games just aren't as popular as developers seem to think they will be or just exclusive to Destiny itself. Destiny 2 has actually sold quite well, the stumbling is coming from reviewers noting that it really hasn't done enough to innovate over the first game.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 22, 2017 12:21:43 GMT
There is quitre a number who buys games just for MP. Even Bioware games. Yep. I met a guy at the gamestore a few years ago who was trading in ME3. I asked him what he thought of the game. He knew nothing about the single player portion. He bought the game just for the multiplayer. He said he has a lot of friends who do the same. Buy games just for multiplayer
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Post by ShadowAngel on Sept 22, 2017 16:50:14 GMT
I wonder if Destiny 2 stumbling out of the gate is indicative that these sorts of games just aren't as popular as developers seem to think they will be or just exclusive to Destiny itself. Fumbling how exactly? The game while new is selling better than the first and they're bragging about their player counts. I don't think the game has stumbled yet till we see how post launch content is handled, the thing that NEEDS to be good to retain these numbers. Review wise it's very mixed but the reviews mean nothing when you're still selling and having a high player count (which is 1.2 million+ and only going to go up when pc arrives.) furthermore id say it's simply the developers mishandling it when these kind of games stumble or fail. The interest most definitely is there, the issue is doing it properly to keep people coming back. The division is pretty much done and a failed attempt, destiny has the luxury to get a second go around (and probably even a third attempt with how good D2 is doing at the moment), and Anthem is drawing in interest if it can be what these other projects haven't been.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 16:52:31 GMT
I was also under impression that D2 reception is rather warm and folks may grumble a little that it does not have any novel things, but settle happily in their new grind-mill with friends from D1.
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 22, 2017 18:15:46 GMT
There is quitre a number who buys games just for MP. Even Bioware games. Yep. I met a guy at the gamestore a few years ago who was trading in ME3. I asked him what he thought of the game. He knew nothing about the single player portion. He bought the game just for the multiplayer. He said he has a lot of friends who do the same. Buy games just for multiplayer ME3's multiplayer was good, but even so...
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Post by Iakus on Sept 22, 2017 18:48:05 GMT
That's absolutely ridiculous. They'd truly need "Call of Duty's audience" to get that. And I don't think they've had that even at their height. Heck Call of Duty didn't have those numbers when they started. Mass Effect 2 sold 2 million copies to retailers in the first week, it definitely isn't outside the realm of possibility. Numbers drop off dramatically after the first week or two. I doubt they've sold ten million copies of ME2 to this very day.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 22, 2017 19:12:06 GMT
Mass Effect 2 sold 2 million copies to retailers in the first week, it definitely isn't outside the realm of possibility. Numbers drop off dramatically after the first week or two. I doubt they've sold ten million copies of ME2 to this very day. That sounds like shifting the goalpost.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 22, 2017 19:37:40 GMT
Numbers drop off dramatically after the first week or two. I doubt they've sold ten million copies of ME2 to this very day. That sounds like shifting the goalpost. How? My point is banking on selling ten million copies just to break even is ridiculous.
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 22, 2017 20:14:46 GMT
That sounds like shifting the goalpost. How? My point is banking on selling ten million copies just to break even is ridiculous. The post you quoted said 1.7 million, not ten.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 22, 2017 20:26:25 GMT
How? My point is banking on selling ten million copies just to break even is ridiculous. The post you quoted said 1.7 million, not ten. Then I was mistaken.
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 23, 2017 7:27:55 GMT
Yep. I met a guy at the gamestore a few years ago who was trading in ME3. I asked him what he thought of the game. He knew nothing about the single player portion. He bought the game just for the multiplayer. He said he has a lot of friends who do the same. Buy games just for multiplayer ME3's multiplayer was good, but even so... I bought DAI just for the MP. I knew MEA would be on Frostbite and I wanted an indication on the impact on a possible future ME MP. I ended up enjoying the SP more, though.
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 23, 2017 7:56:16 GMT
There have been plenty of polls before now to settle this, give or take a few percentage points either way (based on Mass Effect and Dragon Age multiplayer polls). - A solid 40% aren't touching that multiplayer content at all.
- A quarter play mostly or exclusively multiplayer.
- The remaining third will enjoy both modes.
So of the current BioWare 'fanbase', around 60% should be at open to the idea, even if they are still some distance from being convinced.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 23, 2017 17:47:46 GMT
I wonder if Destiny 2 stumbling out of the gate is indicative that these sorts of games just aren't as popular as developers seem to think they will be or just exclusive to Destiny itself. Fumbling how exactly? The game while new is selling better than the first and they're bragging about their player counts. It's not selling better, it's selling worse, 58% worse vs. D1 for the same time period, but the peak concurrent player count is quite respectable at 1.2 million. gamerant.com/destiny-2-physical-sales-first-week/www.polygon.com/2017/9/10/16283336/destiny-2-concurrent-players-millionAll of the above is as expected, given the state of early reviews. The consensus of reviews was that it's an incremental improvement over D1, which isn't going to attract new customers, and wouldn't be enough to get people who abandoned D1 to come back, but is enough for people happy enough with D1 to pay for the improvements. The first week D1 numbers are inflated anyway, by people hoping the game was something other than what it actually turned out to be. In addition to initial unit volume, it would be great to see the concurrent online player count trend over the course of a month or three. I'd expect a sharp drop-off at some point before it levels out to the steady-state number. Anthem, unless they do something really dumb, should follow a similar pattern. Whether the scale is higher, lower or the same, remains to be seen.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 23, 2017 17:53:25 GMT
I'm expecting an overlap between 'old' and 'new' fans. I'm also expecting BioWare to be anticipating a larger player base for Anthem. How much overlap and how many more consumers remains to be seen. I agree conceptually, but I think the scale is wrong. The Old Fan circle should be smaller, and the overlap should be a bigger. By how much depends on how big one guesses the TAM is for Anthem.
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Post by majesticjazz on Sept 23, 2017 18:05:39 GMT
I'm expecting an overlap between 'old' and 'new' fans. I'm also expecting BioWare to be anticipating a larger player base for Anthem. How much overlap and how many more consumers remains to be seen. According to your chart, about 2/3 of Bioware base will not even touch Anthem.
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 23, 2017 19:39:06 GMT
According to your chart, about 2/3 of Bioware base will not even touch Anthem. Granted. It was conceptual, and frankly, I don't know...
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