pinkjellybeans
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Post by pinkjellybeans on Sept 21, 2017 1:38:57 GMT
I think healing magic should come back as a regular class like we had in past games. Or at least give us a companion that has that as a specialization. I just find it difficult to imagine that suddenly healing magic is not available anymore. I mean, supposedly it is, because we hear people talk about it throughout the game, but for some reason our character and companions don't know how to use it when in the past anyone could heal their allies. I don't buy the "we removed it because we wanted to make the game more challenging" excuse because there are other ways to make the game challenging without removing important spells and classes. For instances, they could (and should) make enemy mages a lot more scarier. Instead, they turned them into these weirdos with flying books that spam fire and ice mines, which is the one spell you can easily avoid. Removing spells/classes and limiting ability slots is not fun or challenging to me, it's just boring (because then we have less abilities to choose from so we always rely on the same ones over and over again, there's no diversity) and annoying (because then you're stuck with only 8 abilities to use while wasting others). But well, that's just my opinion. Maybe it's not a popular one. Haha The original intent in removing healing spells was so that combat became more about attrition over time. With healing spells, combat has to outpace your ability to spam healing, and since you could double-down on both spell and potion healing, it was a balance challenge. And if the fight doesn't kill you, you're back at full health moments after it's over. And you have someone who is a healer spec, the game has to be designed to accommodate that extra healing. Is the game too easy with healer? Too hard without one? What if you don't like the healer character (eg. Anders) and just don't want him in your party? See, these are reasons why I thought moving healing over to consumables-only is a good idea. At least a step in the right direction. Just create some lore reason why you don't have access to healing spells. I don't see any reason why double-down on healing (spells & potions) is a good idea. I think there are better avenues for ability variety than healing spells. I'd like to see the game balanced around healing consumables and introduce core mechanics to block/avoid damage for all classes (instead of barrier spam). I personally like having as much flexibility as possible building parties, and don't want to be dependent on a single character or class. If I want to roll with 4 rogues because they are interesting people and I want to hear their banter, I'd prefer the game be flexible enough to accommodate that. Healing spells were there in the past two games and I honestly don't think anyone complained about it removing the challenge out of fights. I still don't get it honestly (maybe my brain is slow, it's 2am). Why try to fix things that aren't broken? If you think healing spells are too OP, then just ignore them. Don't invest points on it and use them on something else that suits you. I don't get when people ask for less options like that's a good thing. In DAO there was healing and potions and when I played on the hardest difficulty I would still get the death screen many times. Why? Because enemies (specially mages) were actually a threat and if I didn't plan things carefully and went head on into fights, things would get out of control real quick and not even healing magic would help. That's not the case with DAI anymore, I just need to spam the same 2 or 3 spells, I don't even use the tactical camera anymore, not only because it's dreadful but also because I don't feel like I need it. And like you mentioned, there is no healing in DAI but there is barrier. Just have two mages in your party and constantly spam barrier and you're good to go. How's that any different from spamming heal? What are they going to do next? Remove barrier as well? There has to be some middle ground at least. Maybe some cons for using these spells, like bigger cooldowns or when a mage heals an ally they lose a bit of health themselves, I don't know. If healing magic is gone for good though, then I agree with you that they have to at least present a reason, much like how after the first ME game we couldn't use omni-gel to open locks anymore and Shepard explains why (while joking). And give us other defensive/supporting abilities that don't involve just barrier. In the end, what I really want is more options and more variety.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 21, 2017 1:51:15 GMT
The original intent in removing healing spells was so that combat became more about attrition over time. With healing spells, combat has to outpace your ability to spam healing, and since you could double-down on both spell and potion healing, it was a balance challenge. And if the fight doesn't kill you, you're back at full health moments after it's over. And you have someone who is a healer spec, the game has to be designed to accommodate that extra healing. Is the game too easy with healer? Too hard without one? What if you don't like the healer character (eg. Anders) and just don't want him in your party? See, these are reasons why I thought moving healing over to consumables-only is a good idea. At least a step in the right direction. Just create some lore reason why you don't have access to healing spells. I don't see any reason why double-down on healing (spells & potions) is a good idea. I think there are better avenues for ability variety than healing spells. I'd like to see the game balanced around healing consumables and introduce core mechanics to block/avoid damage for all classes (instead of barrier spam). I personally like having as much flexibility as possible building parties, and don't want to be dependent on a single character or class. If I want to roll with 4 rogues because they are interesting people and I want to hear their banter, I'd prefer the game be flexible enough to accommodate that. Healing spells were there in the past two games and I honestly don't think anyone complained about it removing the challenge out of fights. I still don't get it honestly (maybe my brain is slow, it's 2am). Why try to fix things that aren't broken? If you think healing spells are too OP, then just ignore them. Don't invest points on it and use them on something else that suits you. I don't get when people ask for less options like that's a good thing. In DAO there was healing and potions and when I played on the hardest difficulty I would still get the death screen many times. Why? Because enemies (specially mages) were actually a threat and if I didn't plan things carefully and went head on into fights, things would get out of control real quick and not even healing magic would help. That's not the case with DAI anymore, I just need to spam the same 2 or 3 spells, I don't even use the tactical camera anymore, not only because it's dreadful but also because I don't feel like I need it. And like you mentioned, there is no healing in DAI but there is barrier. Just have two mages in your party and constantly spam barrier and you're good to go. How's that any different from spamming heal? What are they going to do next? Remove barrier as well? There has to be some middle ground at least. Maybe some cons for using these spells, like bigger cooldowns or when a mage heals an ally they lose a bit of health themselves, I don't know. If healing magic is gone for good though, then I agree with you that they have to at least present a reason, much like how after the first ME game we couldn't use omni-gel to open locks anymore and Shepard explains why (while joking). And give us other defensive/supporting abilities that don't involve just barrier. In the end, what I really want is more options and more variety. I think you missed most of the points I was trying to make in my post, but I'll chalk that up to being 2am where you are...
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pinkjellybeans
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Post by pinkjellybeans on Sept 21, 2017 3:04:58 GMT
Healing spells were there in the past two games and I honestly don't think anyone complained about it removing the challenge out of fights. I still don't get it honestly (maybe my brain is slow, it's 2am). Why try to fix things that aren't broken? If you think healing spells are too OP, then just ignore them. Don't invest points on it and use them on something else that suits you. I don't get when people ask for less options like that's a good thing. In DAO there was healing and potions and when I played on the hardest difficulty I would still get the death screen many times. Why? Because enemies (specially mages) were actually a threat and if I didn't plan things carefully and went head on into fights, things would get out of control real quick and not even healing magic would help. That's not the case with DAI anymore, I just need to spam the same 2 or 3 spells, I don't even use the tactical camera anymore, not only because it's dreadful but also because I don't feel like I need it. And like you mentioned, there is no healing in DAI but there is barrier. Just have two mages in your party and constantly spam barrier and you're good to go. How's that any different from spamming heal? What are they going to do next? Remove barrier as well? There has to be some middle ground at least. Maybe some cons for using these spells, like bigger cooldowns or when a mage heals an ally they lose a bit of health themselves, I don't know. If healing magic is gone for good though, then I agree with you that they have to at least present a reason, much like how after the first ME game we couldn't use omni-gel to open locks anymore and Shepard explains why (while joking). And give us other defensive/supporting abilities that don't involve just barrier. In the end, what I really want is more options and more variety. I think you missed most of the points I was trying to make in my post, but I'll chalk that up to being 2am where you are... Sorry. Lol But I think I got the general idea of what you meant, no? I just don't see how spamming heal + potions is much more different from, let's say, spamming barrier + heal and/or regeneration potion. They solved one "problem" but another remains. You mentioned you liked the guard on hit mastercraft, and yes, while it's nice to have, in the end it's not really challenging or even balanced because you are just unkillable at some point. But these are all ways for you to stay in battle longer, they are ways for you to survive. One restores health, the other prevents you from losing health but in the end they are the same thing, so why remove one and let the other stay? Not sure if I'm getting my point across.. And to answer to something you said: "And you have someone who is a healer spec, the game has to be designed to accommodate that extra healing. Is the game too easy with healer? Too hard without one? What if you don't like the healer character (eg. Anders) and just don't want him in your party?" This was never a problem in past games (at least for me). Why is it a problem now? And I doubt a game will ever be that hard that you absolutely need to have a companion with healing magic even if you don't want to. It's actually ironic that DAI is the one game that doesn't have healing and yet I find it the easiest and least challenging DA game.
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Post by hero11n7 on Sept 21, 2017 5:52:55 GMT
I wonder what a retooled Spirit Warrior would be like. Would it be more oriented toward tanking or damage dealing? A mix of both? Something else?
Anyone have any thoughts?
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Post by ProbeAway on Sept 21, 2017 13:12:33 GMT
I know it wan't necessarily popular but I loved the force mage concept in DA2. PotA and Gravitic Ring were just so much fun to set up mobs. FotM needed a buff tho.
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formerfiend
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 21, 2017 14:53:41 GMT
I loved Force Mage in DA2. Felt it was the most fun to play a mage with. I'd be perfectly fine with it making a comeback.
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Post by duskwanderer on Sept 24, 2017 3:44:50 GMT
Firstly, I hope that our companions have different specializations than the ones we get. It encourages replayability.
For warriors, I liked the Battlemaster specialization with the chains and horns, and I think that should make a comeback. Templar was also a very good choice, and that might be really useful in DA4 since, if we're in Tevinter, we might be dealing with a lot more magical-style attacks and demons. I'm also fond of Berserker, but I think it needs more to it than just expending stamina for bonus damage. Maybe a sort of focus type spell that lets you do more damage overtime to a target that'll make you fatigued after that enemy dies. You could couple Berserker with Reaver, for a really dangerous all-or-nothing all-offense kinda character (dual specializations ahoy!)
For mages, blood magic is a discipline that I'd like to see, but I'd like to see a responsible practitioner of it who knows the danger (more to the point, he'd be your companion, and refuse to teach you if you show disregard to its danger). Force Mage was also good, focus on the crowd control.
It might have been me, but I really loved the Shadow and their decoys, hallucination powder, and what not. Stealth and archery need to be more valid, so give me prestige classes that focus on that.
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boxofscreaming
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Post by boxofscreaming on Sept 24, 2017 6:40:27 GMT
It might have been me, but I really loved the Shadow and their decoys, hallucination powder, and what not. Stealth and archery need to be more valid, so give me prestige classes that focus on that. Shadow was a great specialization. I liked being able to get +50% critical damage right off the bat in DA2. Made me feel dangerous! I'd love to see Force Mage back, but for warriors, I reckon it might be time for all new specializations. DAI gave us some pretty interesting new ones for rogues and mages, but warriors got stuff they'd had before. I thought Tempest and Artificer were pretty imaginative and a nice change from previous rogue specializations - maybe they could pull off something like that for a warrior.
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Post by Blaze on Sept 24, 2017 14:55:37 GMT
well for one i think focus ability should match the spec and not the companion that happen to have the spec. it's fine for the companion but not the main character. for example, in inquisition, the focus ability of artificer is "hail of arrows" it have nothing to do with the spec but it's the ability because varric have it and it fits varric. i'm fine with companions getting their own focus ability but for the spec it needs to make sense.
as of specific specs: well blood mage for sure, funnily enough i have yet to play as one in the first 2 games, but the option should be there. ranger would be nice. and spirit healer. even if there will be no healing in DA4, like inquisition, the spec could still works, like support with buffs and such. and the focus ability should be like one knight enchanter had in inquisition (which makes more sense as a spirit healer).
i also think people should react to your spec, meaning you can only have one like in inquisition, but in cutscene it will be acted apon, if you are a blood mage, or a templar and such. and maybe even in some cases using the spec in cutscene. like say, a ranger would summon wolf, templar would block an attack of a mage. that sort of thing.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Sept 24, 2017 17:58:10 GMT
I think, if the veil were to come down, it would be cool to play a dreamer/somniari. Think of it, shaping the very world around you to your will...what fun!
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Post by hero11n7 on Oct 1, 2017 18:28:36 GMT
Now that I think about it, I think a nice specialization would be a leader-type spec for warriors based around buffing yourself and your allies; like how champion was in DAO, or like the Captain class in lord of the rings online.
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Post by patches on Oct 4, 2017 8:24:58 GMT
Companions need their own spec again, I'd love it if their starting abilities came from their own specilisation.
Rogues Assassin but with some anti magic/artifice abilities. Scout, heavy armoured bard. Dualist, single blade relying on speed and misdirection.
Mage Blood mage with healing abilities that you can only use on someone else at the cost of your own health but their health can slowly regenerate during battle depending on difficulty level. Battle mage adds elemental damage to their weapon of choice, short range spells and an automatic Barrier. Spellbinder spirit/demon abilities and the book teleporting spell is a must.
Warrior Spirit Warrior, warriors who have been joined with a spirit/demon and tend to be magister bodyguards. Reaver blood magic mixed with warrior. Guardian powerful defenders ha some anti magic buffs but less powerful offense.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 1:27:59 GMT
for warrior i would like to see again: Spirit Warrior and Guardian.
Rogue i would like: Duelist and Scout (legion scout is a fantasy dream)
Mage: Blood magic, Force Magic, Battlemage.
and be aviable to choose at least 2 specializations like before, 1 it's just ridiculous.
But i guess this department it will just be a "enhanced version" of the DAI one, so i don't expect much. We'll see in the future.
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Post by Sifr on Oct 27, 2017 15:26:50 GMT
A part of me wondered if it wasn't because Asunder established that Cole couldn't make spirit healers & the like forget him and they felt they needed that out for players who didn't want Cole in the party, but it's unlikely that had anything to do with it. I thought the explanation more subtly implied by Asunder that Rhys was characterised as a highly compassionate person, who only ever wanted to help everyone else? It'd be only natural therefore that a Spirit of Compassion would gravitate towards someone like him and why Cole wouldn't want to make him forget about him. (Of course Rhys is a talented Medium and able to attract Spirits easily, but I kinda like the idea that Rhys' compassion draws him to Cole as much as Cole is drawn to him) Wynne may have been able to recall Cole for similar reasons (she's also very compassionate), but also because the Spirit within her was able to sense Cole's presence. We've seen a few demons/spirits able to sense the presence of another one of their kind or abomination. Similarly why Lord Seeker Lambert was able to often sense Cole's presence in the room (even if he couldn't see him), because Seekers also gained their abilities from Spirits breaking their induced tranquility and could be considered another form of abomination? Although it is admittedly still a little unclear from the reveal in Inquisition whether or not Seekers are actually abominations or not? Cole obliquely refers to Cassandra a few times as "Faith" while referring to himself as Compassion in the same sentence, suggesting that this might be the Spirit inhabiting her. Would explain why Spirits of Faith are said to be so rarely encountered, if most of them are joined with members of the Seekers. And why Seekers are immune to possession, because they already are (albeit unknowingly). --- Asunder tangent aside, would love to see Spirit Healer and Spirit Warrior make a return. I think a good in-universe explanation for why they were left out in DAI could be that Spirit Healers lost their mojo? Solas mentions that the Breach and Rifts tend to cause most spirits to flee, so SH wouldn't be able to draw upon them for healing. Your Trainer also mentioned that some of the former "rules" of magic were also changed or altered due to the Breach, requiring mages to relearn some things from scratch. Could serve as a nice lore-friendly explanation for why healing was no longer an option in DAI, as the creation School was majorly affected by the Breach.
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formerfiend
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Post by formerfiend on Oct 27, 2017 15:40:10 GMT
Yeah, the implication I got was that it was due to spiritual sensitivity. That's what Rhys mostly attributes it to, being more sensitive and in tune with spirits, which it's already established that Wynne is as well. But it's been a long time since I've read Asunder and I'm not particularly interested in reading that book again.
Mainly I just like to think that my Warden would be immune to Cole's mind-rape powers. Don't try and take that away from me.
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Post by XJlock on Oct 28, 2017 18:33:18 GMT
Shapeshifter, Reaver and Assassin.
This time, I see no reason to avoid putting the Blood Mage specialization if Tevinter is the location of the next game.
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Post by ProbeAway on Oct 29, 2017 3:59:54 GMT
I think mages need the biggest revamp after DAI, in terms of both the regular trees and the specialisations. Firstly, bring back the four schools of primal, spirit, creation and entropy. They offer much more variety in terms of playstyle than the fire/frost/shock trees in DAI, not to mention being in line with the lore established in the first game (and mostly maintained in the second). If they don't want a spirit healer specialisation then I can live with that, but there's no reason not to have a basic heal spell with a reasonable cooldown. Surely that doesn't unbalance anything? The rest of the creation tree could be similar to that in DA2 with haste, heroic aura, etc. (Generally speaking, I'd be happy for them to use the DA2 spell and talent trees as a starting point, with a few tweaks and some of the better DAI spells and talents thrown in.) Secondly, the specialisations need to offer a point of difference to the regular trees. For this reason they should bring back blood mage and also some kind of battlemage spec. They could go back to arcane warrior if they wanted and perhaps have an eleven slave teach it to you as a reward for helping them. For the third spec I would either go for a summoner option as others have suggested or - my personal preference - a revamped force mage. I just love the concept of ragdolling mooks with my mind. Laying down a POTA and then nuking the clustered enemies with a fireball was pretty satisfying. On top of that, FM offers a spec more in line with traditional 'caster' mages while still maintaining some uniqueness. I'd probably change the name though - kineticist, maybe? I loved Force Mage in DA2. Felt it was the most fun to play a mage with. I'd be perfectly fine with it making a comeback. And I thought I was the only one! For warriors, I'd keep reaver, bring back berzerker and make the third spec a templar/champion hybrid aimed at the tanking playstyle. The specialisation trees in the last two games tended to have two 'limbs' to them so one limb could be anti-magic while the other could be for pure tanking skills. I don't usually play rogues but it seems like the assassin spec is a no-brainer. I wouldn't mind seeing something like the bard spec return either, just a spec focused on more of a support role for those who like to play that way. Lastly, I agree with basically everyone else that the unique ally specialisations should be brought back. They just added a new dimension and made each ally play differently.
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Post by helios969 on Nov 1, 2017 9:26:14 GMT
I'd love to see a Spirit/Demon possession spec. Essentially allowing yourself to temporarily merge with a spirit/demon, transforming into an "abomination", and taking on aspects of them. A rage demon might grant you various fire abilities, stat boosts and some physical appearance changes. A spirit of command might grant you party buff abilities and fear/aggro abilities to enemies. Nova/Focus abilities might transform you into something similar to a Revenant/Arcane Horror/etc. And it's broad enough a spec that it could apply to any base class. I love the idea of temporarily being possessed by a rage or pride demon and inheriting those abilities...a mage beserker class. Playing that with friendly fire active could be hilarious. All companions: Greatly Disapproves. Also agree with your subsequent posts on healing class/spells. Ugh, just plain boring...and it's not like DAI at its most difficult had much need of a healer anyways. I just don't want to be railroaded into taking one specific companion or class with me. If they do include it make it have a ridiculously long cool-down time...like a minute.
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Post by shechinah on Nov 3, 2017 18:17:09 GMT
I mentioned this long ago but I would like a blood mage specialization that is entirely or doubles as a healer specialization. We know such exist from Solas as he talks about a healer who used their own blood to heal someone.
It'd also be nice to see the shapeshifter specialization make a return albeit a more improved version with maybe more options.
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Nov 3, 2017 18:40:49 GMT
Infiltrator Archer.
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Post by ellehaym on Nov 3, 2017 20:17:35 GMT
Assuming DA4 takes place in Tevinter I wonder if "Magekiller" could be a future class in the game? It could maybe replace Templar for an anti-mage class due to Templars in Tevinter not being given lyrium nor truly trained to take down mages. I'm not really sure how it'll work out though since in the comics, the person (Magekiller) attacked using tools, trickery and fast movements.
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midnightwolf
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by midnightwolf on Nov 4, 2017 2:24:48 GMT
Put me down on the small list of players who LOVE force mage from DA2, and shape-shifter from DAO. I want to see those return. Also, even IF we the players don't get to be one, if I don't see a SINGLE enemy Blood Mage in combat, I'm going to be so disappointed. Those buggers could be a real problem to fight in DA2 if you didn't take them out quickly. Same with the Darkspawn magic users in DAO. Unlike DAI mages, who were only a threat if you crossed over their mine spells.
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mmoblitz
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mmoblitz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mmoblitz on Nov 4, 2017 11:31:03 GMT
Give me the combat and tactics from DA2 and I'm golden. I didn't find anything in DAI that I would want to see again at least from the mage side.
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midnightwolf
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: BlackSassyWolf
XBL Gamertag: BlackSassyWolf
Posts: 947 Likes: 1,231
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2174
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midnightwolf
947
November 2016
midnightwolf
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
BlackSassyWolf
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Post by midnightwolf on Nov 4, 2017 19:14:30 GMT
Give me the combat and tactics from DA2 and I'm golden. I didn't find anything in DAI that I would want to see again at least from the mage side. I like this. But would go a step further and ask for the tactics in Origins and the combat of DA2. Since the tactics in DAO are more complex and customizable.
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mmoblitz
N3
USN-Retired
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: mmoblitz
PSN: NotPC
Posts: 515 Likes: 590
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1777
0
Jan 20, 2022 10:02:17 GMT
590
mmoblitz
USN-Retired
515
Oct 11, 2016 11:10:36 GMT
October 2016
mmoblitz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
mmoblitz
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Post by mmoblitz on Nov 4, 2017 20:56:41 GMT
Give me the combat and tactics from DA2 and I'm golden. I didn't find anything in DAI that I would want to see again at least from the mage side. I like this. But would go a step further and ask for the tactics in Origins and the combat of DA2. Since the tactics in DAO are more complex and customizable. I had to use mods to expand the capability of the tactics for DAO. I didn't need any tactic mods for DA2. I would take DAO or DA2 over what we got. I really don't know if anything like that is possible using Frostbite.
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