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Post by Prince on Sept 28, 2017 15:32:55 GMT
The Timeline of the game doesn't reflect the IRL timeline. When you complete the game in 40 hours IRL,one year is passed there. You don't get to perceive the flow of time in the camp or anywhere else in the game. So by making that into account it is logically possibile for bodies in-game to decay that fast. Because it isn't necessarly fast. What the players perceive as fast may in truth be a long period of time in the game.
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Post by oyabun on Sept 28, 2017 15:42:07 GMT
I might agree. It partially depends on what exactly he absorbed from Flemeth at the end of Inquisition. If Solas is now Mythal in the same way Flemeth was, then he does control her. If he has an asset like that, is he really not going to use her? But if that's not how it works, and she does cameo, they'd need to sell the plot reasons pretty well. (Though again: I gave two reasons above.) The prolem of the well of sorrow it's that is optional(not the well,the owner who can change),I don't think Bioware wants once again to commit the mistakes of splitting their resources to develop optional paths rather than making big meaningful quests,unless they intend to use the same kind of solution they used for the warden ally in DAI. In theory he could use the owner of the well if he has truly gained the Mythal soul,but honestly we don't even know what he took,he might have Mythal soul only for those who unlocked the Altar of Mythal.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Sept 28, 2017 20:49:49 GMT
I might agree. It partially depends on what exactly he absorbed from Flemeth at the end of Inquisition. If Solas is now Mythal in the same way Flemeth was, then he does control her. If he has an asset like that, is he really not going to use her? But if that's not how it works, and she does cameo, they'd need to sell the plot reasons pretty well. (Though again: I gave two reasons above.) The prolem of the well of sorrow it's that is optional(not the well,the owner who can change),I don't think Bioware wants once again to commit the mistakes of splitting their resources to develop optional paths rather than making big meaningful quests,unless they intend to use the same kind of solution they used for the warden ally in DAI. Well, that wouldn't be too hard in this case. Mythal would just have one plan, and would force one of two people to follow it depending on the choice you made during DA:I, the same as when the Warden ally who can be one of three people plays the same part no matter what you did in DA:O. It could work like that, but why would it? Why would what he takes depend on whether or not you went to the Altar of Mythal? Because it isn't necessarly fast. What the players perceive as fast may in truth be a long period of time in the game. Okay, that's fair. But on the other hand if it isn't that fast, why would the Warden stick around to watch? Checking for a pulse is a reasonable precaution. Keeping what you believe to be the corpse of someone you're pretty sure you killed around and watching it decay to bones over the course of days is just paranoid, and kind of silly in a really dark way. (Well, at least that's true in a setting where resurrection isn't so common that anyone above the rank of knight can prearrange to pay his passage back from the other side. In settings where it is that easy it's not paranoid enough.) (And since this isn't one of those settings, and Oghren survives his "death" anyway, I can only assume the Warden didn't take either precaution.)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2017 14:46:50 GMT
Unfortunately, with the well of sorrows, because Inquisitor potentially drinks, Morrigan is set as an ally. Unless Inquisitor may become an opponent. I doubt that however. So, I will not be surprised by yet another forced Morrigan BS.
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Post by Prince on Sept 30, 2017 11:15:31 GMT
be a long period of time in the game. Okay, that's fair. But on the other hand if it isn't that fast, why would the Warden stick around to watch? Checking for a pulse is a reasonable precaution. Keeping what you believe to be the corpse of someone you're pretty sure you killed around and watching it decay to bones over the course of days is just paranoid, and kind of silly in a really dark way. (Well, at least that's true in a setting where resurrection isn't so common that anyone above the rank of knight can prearrange to pay his passage back from the other side. In settings where it is that easy it's not paranoid enough.) (And since this isn't one of those settings, and Oghren survives his "death" anyway, I can only assume the Warden didn't take either precaution.) As you said watching their bodies to decay it would have been paranoid in any other game.....except DA. Oghren was retconned, even if someone observe his body decomposition he comes back. From Wh instead they started to use the "ambiguos" death technique(In Wh it wasn't done good imho),which was improved in DA2 with Cory and in DAI with Calpernia
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Post by Catilina on Sept 30, 2017 11:34:48 GMT
Okay, that's fair. But on the other hand if it isn't that fast, why would the Warden stick around to watch? Checking for a pulse is a reasonable precaution. Keeping what you believe to be the corpse of someone you're pretty sure you killed around and watching it decay to bones over the course of days is just paranoid, and kind of silly in a really dark way. (Well, at least that's true in a setting where resurrection isn't so common that anyone above the rank of knight can prearrange to pay his passage back from the other side. In settings where it is that easy it's not paranoid enough.) (And since this isn't one of those settings, and Oghren survives his "death" anyway, I can only assume the Warden didn't take either precaution.) As you said watching their bodies to decay it would have been paranoid in any other game.....except DA. Oghren was retconned, even if someone observe his body decomposition he comes back. From Wh instead they started to use the "ambiguos" death technique(In Wh it wasn't done good imho), which was improved in DA2 with Cory and in DAI with Calpernia Corypheus didn't die in DA2. Did you even see Larius after the battle?
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Sept 30, 2017 11:47:59 GMT
Okay, that's fair. But on the other hand if it isn't that fast, why would the Warden stick around to watch? Checking for a pulse is a reasonable precaution. Keeping what you believe to be the corpse of someone you're pretty sure you killed around and watching it decay to bones over the course of days is just paranoid, and kind of silly in a really dark way. (Well, at least that's true in a setting where resurrection isn't so common that anyone above the rank of knight can prearrange to pay his passage back from the other side. In settings where it is that easy it's not paranoid enough.) (And since this isn't one of those settings, and Oghren survives his "death" anyway, I can only assume the Warden didn't take either precaution.) As you said watching their bodies to decay it would have been paranoid in any other game.....except DA. Oghren was retconned, even if someone observe his body decomposition he comes back. What I'm saying is that there's no reason to believe that someone would canonically observe his body decomposition. This is a setting where 999 times out of a thousand (at what I'm sure is a very conservative estimate) people die exactly once. Not that there's not other tests the Warden could have done (and probably didn't since there's no actual reason to believe that Oghren truly died and came back to life anyway.)
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Sept 30, 2017 11:54:13 GMT
Unfortunately, with the well of sorrows, because Inquisitor potentially drinks, Morrigan is set as an ally. Unless Inquisitor may become an opponent. I doubt that however. So, I will not be surprised by yet another forced Morrigan BS. Inquisitor as an opponent... maybe? What I've been hoping for for a while is that when Solas drained Flemeth, he absorbed her ability to command whoever drank from the Well and is bound to Mythal. Then when he starts getting desperate he uses that control to force a fight to the death between whoever that World State gives him and the new PC. Variable boss fight, and you never have to fight the same boss twice. But there's at least two holes in that theory: namely that if Solas controlled Quizzy he might have been able to take the Veil down before Trespasser, and that Flemeth managed to push some form of magical energy (possibly Mythal) through the Eluvian before she got drained. (There's also the potential problem that in some World States he'd be killing his LI, but I'm not completely sure that sacrificing her would be out of character for him: he killed Felassan with his own hand for far less reason than this hypothetical gives him to indirectly kill his LI.) But yeah, I agree that we're going to see Morrigan again one way or the other. She might even be an ally for some or all of the next game.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2017 14:32:30 GMT
Unfortunately, with the well of sorrows, because Inquisitor potentially drinks, Morrigan is set as an ally. Unless Inquisitor may become an opponent. I doubt that however. So, I will not be surprised by yet another forced Morrigan BS. Inquisitor as an opponent... maybe? What I've been hoping for for a while is that when Solas drained Flemeth, he absorbed her ability to command whoever drank from the Well and is bound to Mythal. Then when he starts getting desperate he uses that control to force a fight to the death between whoever that World State gives him and the new PC. Variable boss fight, and you never have to fight the same boss twice. But there's at least two holes in that theory: namely that if Solas controlled Quizzy he might have been able to take the Veil down before Trespasser, and that Flemeth managed to push some form of magical energy (possibly Mythal) through the Eluvian before she got drained. (There's also the potential problem that in some World States he'd be killing his LI, but I'm not completely sure that sacrificing her would be out of character for him: he killed Felassan with his own hand for far less reason than this hypothetical gives him to indirectly kill his LI.) But yeah, I agree that we're going to see Morrigan again one way or the other. She might even be an ally for some or all of the next game. One thing that I am pretty much 100% certain is that there is not going to be a boss fight with a randomized boss. It just doesn't sound like BioWARE. At best, the boss would morph from a body to body or generate clones of your party.
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Post by Prince on Oct 1, 2017 1:29:04 GMT
CatilinaYea I know how Corypheus survived in DA2,what I said is that BioWare made his survival better than all those contrived plot armors of DAO.He is one of the few legit survival. riverdaleswhiteflashOghren can be killed in DAO by the warden in battle and even his body turns into bones,so we have reason to believe his death was retconned in DAA. As for Morrigan,I doubt we will ever see her again,all the amount of variables she has could only be a problem for the programmers,not to mention the fact that she was in DAI only because Gaider insisted at placing a DA2 deleted DLC into the plot of DAI. Without an advocate into the writing stuff no characters can hope to be reused,and Morrigan's advocate is gone.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Oct 2, 2017 0:40:37 GMT
Inquisitor as an opponent... maybe? What I've been hoping for for a while is that when Solas drained Flemeth, he absorbed her ability to command whoever drank from the Well and is bound to Mythal. Then when he starts getting desperate he uses that control to force a fight to the death between whoever that World State gives him and the new PC. Variable boss fight, and you never have to fight the same boss twice. But there's at least two holes in that theory: namely that if Solas controlled Quizzy he might have been able to take the Veil down before Trespasser, and that Flemeth managed to push some form of magical energy (possibly Mythal) through the Eluvian before she got drained. (There's also the potential problem that in some World States he'd be killing his LI, but I'm not completely sure that sacrificing her would be out of character for him: he killed Felassan with his own hand for far less reason than this hypothetical gives him to indirectly kill his LI.) But yeah, I agree that we're going to see Morrigan again one way or the other. She might even be an ally for some or all of the next game. One thing that I am pretty much 100% certain is that there is not going to be a boss fight with a randomized boss. It just doesn't sound like BioWARE. I agree with that, but randomized isn't what we'd be seeing here. What we'd be seeing is a boss with properties determined by the Keep slides. A boss determined by the player's choices. Maybe Bioware won't do that either, but it would be consistent with what they're trying to sell the Keep as, and it wouldn't be too much more than they've already done if you think about it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 1:20:41 GMT
One thing that I am pretty much 100% certain is that there is not going to be a boss fight with a randomized boss. It just doesn't sound like BioWARE. I agree with that, but randomized isn't what we'd be seeing here. What we'd be seeing is a boss with properties determined by the Keep slides. A boss determined by the player's choices. Maybe Bioware won't do that either, but it would be consistent with what they're trying to sell the Keep as, and it wouldn't be too much more than they've already done if you think about it. I just can't see this happening tbh. I guess I just can't even have a sliver of hope that we'll get to finally kill Morrigan.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Oct 2, 2017 1:29:46 GMT
I agree with that, but randomized isn't what we'd be seeing here. What we'd be seeing is a boss with properties determined by the Keep slides. A boss determined by the player's choices. Maybe Bioware won't do that either, but it would be consistent with what they're trying to sell the Keep as, and it wouldn't be too much more than they've already done if you think about it. I just can't see this happening tbh. I guess I just can't even have a sliver of hope that we'll get to finally kill Morrigan. Oh ye of little faith. Flemeth finally died, didn't she?
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Oct 2, 2017 7:28:05 GMT
riverdaleswhiteflash Oghren can be killed in DAO by the warden in battle and even his body turns into bones,so we have reason to believe his death was retconned in DAA. No, I'm sure it was a retcon. I'm sure what we saw was meant to communicate that Oghren was dead, and that the writers hadn't thought they were going to bring him back at the time or else they'd have found some other way to dispose of him. (Like what happened to Morrigan, which I'm sure was meant to communicate "you'll be seeing this character again.") But what I'm saying is that it's not evidence that the Warden made sure, since I don't think we're expected to believe that the Warden literally watched his body turn to bones.If you're implying that Gaider's characters are gone because he is, we know that can't be completely true. If nothing else Dorian's guaranteed to be back: we're going to Tevinter and he's now one of the people to watch there. As for Morrigan, her mother wants her to get a piece of a goddess that could well be in the hands of the main antagonist of the next game, and there's a tiny chance she's now bound to his service. Either could be a reason for her to return.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 11:34:17 GMT
I just can't see this happening tbh. I guess I just can't even have a sliver of hope that we'll get to finally kill Morrigan. Oh ye of little faith. Flemeth finally died, didn't she? Yes, but I liked Flemeth, and she was never forced in party or in the inner circle. She was just a presence.... Morrigan, Leliana, Varric and Cassandra seem to be hammered into the setting and the plot in an uncompromising way.
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Post by Kei on Oct 4, 2017 15:36:55 GMT
riverdaleswhiteflash Oghren can be killed in DAO by the warden in battle and even his body turns into bones,so we have reason to believe his death was retconned in DAA. No, I'm sure it was a retcon. I'm sure what we saw was meant to communicate that Oghren was dead, and that the writers hadn't thought they were going to bring him back at the time or else they'd have found some other way to dispose of him. (Like what happened to Morrigan, which I'm sure was meant to communicate "you'll be seeing this character again.") But what I'm saying is that it's not evidence that the Warden made sure, since I don't think we're expected to believe that the Warden literally watched his body turn to bones.As for Morrigan, her mother wants her to get a piece of a goddess that could well be in the hands of the main antagonist of the next game, and there's a tiny chance she's now bound to his service. Either could be a reason for her to return. If the devs bother to make an articulate cinematic to give ambiguos death to an npc(wheter it makes sense or not for the player)it translates to their will to reuse a character. Calpernia is the same thing of Wh Morrigan,but her cinematic was better developed as that didn't felt forced like Wh. I don't think it is necessarly true that Flemeth wants to pass Mythal to Morrigan either,those are unconfirmed rumors,I also don't see why mythal would like to go to someone who may have murdered her priest and adviced to murder her previous host,at best she could just make Morrigan pay for that.
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Post by secretrare on Oct 10, 2017 2:08:01 GMT
Agree,I have difficulties in understanding why Mythal can't find better hosts than someone who had no problems at killing her guards,her priest and her old host which she personally choosed.How about one of the thousands of elves in the world? Maybe an ancient female elf who is not dead?
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Post by mike3207 on Oct 21, 2017 6:41:45 GMT
Flemeth allegedly died. I wont believe it until all flesh is consumed by fire and the remains are salted and all bones crushed. Even that may not be enough. I'm mostly kidding about Flemeth-lol.
Morrigan-see Anders. If Bioware wants her to live, she'll live.
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Post by Sifr on Oct 26, 2017 16:38:16 GMT
Oh ye of little faith. Flemeth finally died, didn't she? Technically the real Flemeth died centuries ago. We've only seen the death of a "Flemeth", since the title/memories seem to be passed down along with the essence of Mythal. (Don't blame me, I got my pedantic tendencies from my previous host) As for Morrigan, she did say to the Warden post-Ostagar that "Mother did most of the work, I am no healer". From that it seems like she did assist in some fashion, but might not be confident in her own skill at healing compared to her mother, so thus denies being a healer and doesn't come with that ability when we gain her as a party member. It might be like how I wouldn't describe myself as a good pitcher. Doesn't mean I can't chuck a ball, only that I'm aware I kinda suck at it. Morrigan might be the same, it's not that she can't heal in theory, but she knows it's not her forte and would rather not attempt it. People might end up growing extra toes or have their spleen turn inside out or something? Another plausible explanation is that she took advantage of her skill with herbalism. If she was lucky and the murder-knife missed puncturing anything vital, that could have allowed her to treat the wound conventionally. She could have sewn up the wound, then used her skill with herbal poultices and salves to prevent any infection from setting in.
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 26, 2017 19:05:55 GMT
Morrigan is not an healer,she was unable to heal Genitivi through magic because Flemeth never taught her healing magic and that's why Gameplay-wise she has no healing specialization of her own,so that she is a mage is of no use for her in the given situation. She uses healing magic in my game. You can even teach her the Spirit Healer specialization. Also, it's been two years since you last saw Morrigan, so you can't say what magic she should or shouldn't know.
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Post by Sifr on Oct 27, 2017 0:51:27 GMT
As much as Morrigan is catty towards Wynne, she could easily have picked up a few tricks from her while they journeyed together. Being highly observant is mentioned as being a requirement for a Shapeshifter after all. Even if she never intended to learn to be a healer, Morrigan could have figured out healing from observing Wynne work and mentally squirrelled that information away for later.
And learning some degree of basic healing spell would be in-character for someone as practical as Morrigan, since she was now routinely going into battle alongside two people who are walking magnets for Darkspawn. Throw in spiders, bears, demons, dragons and werewolves, her going the entire Blight without stopping to learn a single healing spell would be very surprising to learn?
Also since that time, she might have potentially given birth to Kieran. Morrigan wouldn't want to go through labour without knowing some type of healing if there were complications, especially when giving birth could easily be fatal in a medieval setting like Thedas.
(That's part of the reason why the refugees in Kirkwall were so loyal towards Anders. In a world where only the richest nobles could afford magical healing, he was providing healthcare and delivering infants while asking for nothing in return. I'd wager that infant mortality rates among the poor in Kirkwall significantly decreased during the time Anders' clinic was active)
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Oct 27, 2017 9:18:48 GMT
Oh ye of little faith. Flemeth finally died, didn't she? Another plausible explanation is that she took advantage of her skill with herbalism. If she was lucky and the murder-knife missed puncturing anything vital, that could have allowed her to treat the wound conventionally. She could have sewn up the wound, then used her skill with herbal poultices and salves to prevent any infection from setting in. I don't think mundane medicine could have saved her at the setting's general tech level. I think wounds around the area Morrigan got stabbed in tended to be lethal until around the Cold War. Agonizingly slowly lethal, sometimes, but lethal. I'd always assumed she'd had to have saved herself magically. (Though that's not much of a stretch, for all the reasons you note above.)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 14:01:06 GMT
well is already stated, but yeah, pretty much plot armor + a big part of the fanbase + and as Leliana, a favorite character from Bioware's part.
bad part? you will never be aviable to kill her in any future game.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Oct 30, 2017 5:16:54 GMT
bad part? you will never be aviable to kill her in any future game. We need to set up a betting pool. Given how many people seem to despair of ever actually killing Morrigan I think I might be able to get 500:1 odds.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2017 13:34:04 GMT
bad part? you will never be aviable to kill her in any future game. We need to set up a betting pool. Given how many people seem to despair of ever actually killing Morrigan I think I might be able to get 500:1 odds. You have my blessing.
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