Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 23, 2017 15:05:32 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Hm... Admittedly, it's all speculation, since the 1st trailer gave little away. However, we can make reasonable assumptions, based on past Bio games (ME franchise).
So, while Bio mentioned it's a co-op game that one can play with friends, it does not excluded matchmaking with strangers. Both public and private missions are supported in ME3MP and MEAMP. I can see this trend continue in AnthemMP and not as a co-op with friends only game.... makes no sense and severely chokes the player base, imo. I'm not sure how that friends list works. ... possibly they get ahead of the queue for the next mission?
Matchmaking currently exists in ME3MP and MEAMP. Its sophistication algorithm can be questioned but is does exist.... probably based on PING times and with the PRIVATE session where your list of friends get the invite. Activision's patent is best used with PUBLIC sessions. Seeing better gear at work is good advertising, imo.
My main concern is play balance in PvP or Team Raids and possibly PvE. Even then, you can match the players' levels to the Mission Level including their gear attributes. with a +/- differentiation of, say 5.
(🌸=◡=)
Dude, without matchmaking strangers it won't even take off. I would agree, I think Destiny is a good example of why matchmaking is important for people went out and made their own solutions to that problem to the extent that Bungie came up with a solution that was a version of matchmaking in the sequel. A decade or so ago I think people would accept not having matchmaking, but I think at this point in time any game where you group up to complete content matchmaking has become expected by the majority of players.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2017 15:24:08 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Hm... Admittedly, it's all speculation, since the 1st trailer gave little away. However, we can make reasonable assumptions, based on past Bio games (ME franchise).
So, while Bio mentioned it's a co-op game that one can play with friends, it does not excluded matchmaking with strangers. Both public and private missions are supported in ME3MP and MEAMP. I can see this trend continue in AnthemMP and not as a co-op with friends only game.... makes no sense and severely chokes the player base, imo. I'm not sure how that friends list works. ... possibly they get ahead of the queue for the next mission?
Matchmaking currently exists in ME3MP and MEAMP. Its sophistication algorithm can be questioned but is does exist.... probably based on PING times and with the PRIVATE session where your list of friends get the invite. Activision's patent is best used with PUBLIC sessions. Seeing better gear at work is good advertising, imo.
My main concern is play balance in PvP or Team Raids and possibly PvE. Even then, you can match the players' levels to the Mission Level including their gear attributes. with a +/- differentiation of, say 5.
(🌸=◡=)
Dude, without matchmaking strangers it won't even take off. So much this. People might hate on pugs but very few actually play in premmies “with friends”. It’s waaay too challenging logistically and presents too many problems.
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Post by Cyonan on Oct 23, 2017 15:30:01 GMT
Well we're not sure about any potential PvP in the game, but I imagine it'll at the very least have a group finder sort of "matchmaking" where the game matches you up with 3 random strangers to go on PvE missions with. In order for the Activision patent to actually be useful in a game like Anthem though, there would need to be micro-transactions that allow the player to buy items that directly affect character power(either in loot boxes or directly buying them). Which would be a move that by itself would cause me to lose a lot of interest in the game very quickly. -(_ANTHEM_)-
Why, so? If badges and stats are tied to bought gear, your own accomplishments with 'normal gear" are not negated (ie: have separate stats), balancing issues aside.
On a social level, a pub using predatory tactics with MTs is another matter. In this area, I an concerned, as I'm a firm believer in the "slippery slope" argument. All one needs to do is view the way TV shows evolved over the decades. (🌸=◡=)
On top of disliking the practice to the point where I don't really want to support it, I find that games which have micro-transactions are generally designed specifically to "encourage" buying things. Usually by making the normal way of unlocking things that can be bought very grindy.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 23, 2017 16:00:58 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Why, so? If badges and stats are tied to bought gear, your own accomplishments with 'normal gear" are not negated (ie: have separate stats), balancing issues aside.
On a social level, a pub using predatory tactics with MTs is another matter. In this area, I an concerned, as I'm a firm believer in the "slippery slope" argument. All one needs to do is view the way TV shows evolved over the decades. (🌸=◡=)
On top of disliking the practice to the point where I don't really want to support it, I find that games which have micro-transactions are generally designed specifically to "encourage" buying things. Usually by making the normal way of unlocking things that can be bought very grindy. Its even worse when you can see the difference between buying something with microtransactions and not. I bought Assassin's Creed: Syndicate recently and the collectibles that required Helix Credits which are like BioWare points have a much smaller detection radius without the maps then the collectibles that you find with maps you buy with game currency. I am not sure why but the system they used for Mass Effect doesn't bother me as much since it is the game item you can buy from playing the game. So to me it becomes more of a spend time in the game or spend money instead of being rewarded for spending money instead of time. I guess it might also have to do with getting other updates to the game for free since they didn't want to fracture the multiplayer playerbase, but that is just a guess on my part.
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Post by Sartoz on Oct 23, 2017 22:40:13 GMT
So: "It's optional, you don't HAVE to pay for micro-transactions if you don't want to".
Snip
Oh. The best part about it? The price is going to be tailored specifically for you. It will probably be the highest price that the AI thinks that it will be able to milk you for.
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Thank God it's only an AI then.
Some Chinese boffins calculated the IQ of some AIs many of us encountered, such as:
(🌸=◡=)
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 23, 2017 22:48:48 GMT
So: "It's optional, you don't HAVE to pay for micro-transactions if you don't want to".
Ever heard this argument?
About that. Apparently there are quite a few smart individuals out there, developing technological tools designed to use "machine learning" to study the players and everything about them that they can learn (possibly including data from outside the game itself), and then proceed to push their buttons in the optimal way in order to milk cash out of them.
Oh. The best part about it? The price is going to be tailored specifically for you. It will probably be the highest price that the AI thinks that it will be able to milk you for.
It's fucking spyware. Gotta put that "always online" to good use.
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Post by Sartoz on Oct 23, 2017 22:52:43 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
One ray of sunshine coming out is the UK's order to casino websites to remove child targeted ads.
Too bad they are still short sighted regarding MTs.
(🌸=◡=)
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Post by Sartoz on Oct 24, 2017 17:53:25 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Thank God it's only an AI then.
Some Chinese boffins calculated the IQ of some AIs many of us encountered, such as:
(🌸=◡=)
Underestimating something like an AI is never a good idea.
An actual AI may not exist at the moment (well, according to public knowledge anyway), but tools tailored to specific missions already exist, some of them are quite impressive. I'm guessing that you are assuming that predicting how to push a player's buttons is hard, that's probably a mistake as well. Humans are fairly predictable. Google and Youtube have targeted ads based on a similar technology. Statistically those things work, at the very least on a higher level than other methods.
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Hm... Unless Bio developed a trained neural network AI, all of their so called combat AIs are pathetic. I can't see them writing an AI worth 2 cents.
Now, you could be on to something with a knowledge based "AI", as I'm sure EA recorded tons of behavioural data from all those players that bought either game progression gear or fashion wear. (🌸=◡=)
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Post by musely on Oct 24, 2017 22:37:56 GMT
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 25, 2017 3:46:47 GMT
And let the he said/she said begin... I bet heir is closer to the truth than he thinks he really is. That interview did sound like a bitter ex employee in the end but I would presume some of the plans for Anthem are heavily behind multiplayer anyway.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 25, 2017 4:31:53 GMT
And let the he said/she said begin... I bet heir is closer to the truth than he thinks he really is. That interview did sound like a bitter ex employee in the end but I would presume some of the plans for Anthem are heavily behind multiplayer anyway. The problem I now have is that he is coming across as an authority on the subject and frankly he is not. He is just making guesses about it like we would, so his opinion on the matter is just as valid as a YouTuber and frankly those opinions might not have come across as a person that doesn't want to be held accountable for their actions.
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 25, 2017 8:26:07 GMT
I'm sure devs are not neccessarily pro MT in the games they create. However, what does it matter when the publisher wants it shoved in? Just look at the last Deus Ex, the devs had reportedly no idea about the MT plans and had to put it in shortly before launch. So they can talk all they want - you never know what EA plans. That's why we shouldn't preorder and rather look what's in the end product before buying.
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Post by mmoblitz on Oct 25, 2017 10:46:23 GMT
At it's core it appears that Anthem is a MP/Co-op game with possibly a SP mode tacked on. I haven't played it, but I get the impression that Destiny 2 is the same thing. If rumors are true, the Player base for PS4 is bleeding players rather quickly. It may have grabbed some players because of the SP portion, but once they are finished, they typically move on and if your MP content is used up, players move on.
Anthem should take note of D2 and that tacking a SP mode into a game that is MP/C0-op at it's core isn't going to keep players very long. If you monetize the crap out of your MP portion, that most likely won't keep people sticking around long either. The open world, MP shooter market is saturated right now. Too many choices and too many new games coming out with the same theme. You can dress up your game how you want, but in the end it's still a open world, MP shooter which are a dime a dozen.
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Post by Heimdall on Oct 25, 2017 21:37:35 GMT
I'm sure devs are not neccessarily pro MT in the games they create. However, what does it matter when the publisher wants it shoved in? Just look at the last Deus Ex, the devs had reportedly no idea about the MT plans and had to put it in shortly before launch. So they can talk all they want - you never know what EA plans. That's why we shouldn't preorder and rather look what's in the end product before buying. For my part, I expect Bioware has been directed to find a way to monetize the game beyond the initial purchase and subsequent content additions. My hope is that they have a lot of latitude in how to do that. In previous games, they’ve restricted it to unlocking multiplayer content. In Anthem, I’m sort of expecting it to end up taking the Destiny route, where loot boxes give you cosmetic content and potentially some gear, but nothing you couldn’t get otherwise. They have it set up in D2 so you get a free loot box for every level up past the cap. For all my criticism of Destiny 2, I find that system quite tolerable.
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Post by azarhal on Oct 26, 2017 14:02:13 GMT
At it's core it appears that Anthem is a MP/Co-op game with possibly a SP mode tacked on. I haven't played it, but I get the impression that Destiny 2 is the same thing. If rumors are true, the Player base for PS4 is bleeding players rather quickly. It may have grabbed some players because of the SP portion, but once they are finished, they typically move on and if your MP content is used up, players move on. Anthem should take note of D2 and that tacking a SP mode into a game that is MP/C0-op at it's core isn't going to keep players very long. If you monetize the crap out of your MP portion, that most likely won't keep people sticking around long either. The open world, MP shooter market is saturated right now. Too many choices and too many new games coming out with the same theme. You can dress up your game how you want, but in the end it's still a open world, MP shooter which are a dime a dozen. BioWare's experience with SWTOR is that people come over for the story and then leave once they played through it. I doubt they believe Anthem can be any different in term of player behavior. It is valid for all MMORPGs/co-op games with story, not just SWTOR. BioWare is just too slow at releasing new content compared to other MMOs. That is something that actually worries me for Anthem. EA doesn't understand anything to "game as a service", they seems to believe it means "slap a cash shop and money will roll in, you don't need new content outside of once every year, we just have to close shop if it stop resulting in a profit". GW2 actually has it right, release 3-4 hours of content every few months, in fact, I'm starting to think that "MMOs" release with too much content and that the developers should instead focus in rolling out constant content updates.
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 26, 2017 15:03:31 GMT
At it's core it appears that Anthem is a MP/Co-op game with possibly a SP mode tacked on. I haven't played it, but I get the impression that Destiny 2 is the same thing. If rumors are true, the Player base for PS4 is bleeding players rather quickly. It may have grabbed some players because of the SP portion, but once they are finished, they typically move on and if your MP content is used up, players move on. Anthem should take note of D2 and that tacking a SP mode into a game that is MP/C0-op at it's core isn't going to keep players very long. If you monetize the crap out of your MP portion, that most likely won't keep people sticking around long either. The open world, MP shooter market is saturated right now. Too many choices and too many new games coming out with the same theme. You can dress up your game how you want, but in the end it's still a open world, MP shooter which are a dime a dozen. BioWare's experience with SWTOR is that people come over for the story and then leave once they played through it. I doubt they believe Anthem can be any different in term of player behavior. It is valid for all MMORPGs/co-op games with story, not just SWTOR. BioWare is just too slow at releasing new content compared to other MMOs. That is something that actually worries me for Anthem. EA doesn't understand anything to "game as a service", they seems to believe it means "slap a cash shop and money will roll in, you don't need new content outside of once every year, we just have to close shop if it stop resulting in a profit". GW2 actually has it right, release 3-4 hours of content every few months, in fact, I'm starting to think that "MMOs" release with too much content and that the developers should instead focus in rolling out constant content updates. They hit the sweet spot with ME3MP - now they are trying to catch that moment again.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 26, 2017 16:39:40 GMT
At it's core it appears that Anthem is a MP/Co-op game with possibly a SP mode tacked on. I haven't played it, but I get the impression that Destiny 2 is the same thing. If rumors are true, the Player base for PS4 is bleeding players rather quickly. It may have grabbed some players because of the SP portion, but once they are finished, they typically move on and if your MP content is used up, players move on. Anthem should take note of D2 and that tacking a SP mode into a game that is MP/C0-op at it's core isn't going to keep players very long. If you monetize the crap out of your MP portion, that most likely won't keep people sticking around long either. The open world, MP shooter market is saturated right now. Too many choices and too many new games coming out with the same theme. You can dress up your game how you want, but in the end it's still a open world, MP shooter which are a dime a dozen. BioWare's experience with SWTOR is that people come over for the story and then leave once they played through it. I doubt they believe Anthem can be any different in term of player behavior. It is valid for all MMORPGs/co-op games with story, not just SWTOR. BioWare is just too slow at releasing new content compared to other MMOs. That is something that actually worries me for Anthem. EA doesn't understand anything to "game as a service", they seems to believe it means "slap a cash shop and money will roll in, you don't need new content outside of once every year, we just have to close shop if it stop resulting in a profit". GW2 actually has it right, release 3-4 hours of content every few months, in fact, I'm starting to think that "MMOs" release with too much content and that the developers should instead focus in rolling out constant content updates. The problem I experienced with The Old Republic was that once I hit the level cap and finished all the story content there was nothing left to do in the game, for at that point there really wasn't any max level content available. They did rectify that down the road, but at that point it was too little too late and I had stopped playing MMOs altogether.
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Post by mmoblitz on Oct 26, 2017 17:52:34 GMT
Just read this Opinion piece today on Gamasutra. Good read as are some of the opinions involving MT and loot boxes.
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 26, 2017 20:39:55 GMT
Sterling on the short term effects of anti-consumer practices Vs. long term ones. Personally I don't care either way, I know where my line in the sand is, I know what I'm willing to tolerate in my games and what I can't stand. Even if this is here to stay, it just means that my focus will shift from AAA products to smaller ones. I mean, they are often better in many ways as it is. Ye, just look at Minecraft, PUBG and the likes. That didn't need the AAA treatment to beome popular. Sometimes it's just gameplay and something off the every day track of releases that sells.
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Post by Sartoz on Oct 28, 2017 6:20:43 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Kotaku has an update article about the collapse of Visceral Games.
Apparently, it had nothing to do about SP. I'm breathing easier about Anthem, now.
(🌸=◡=)
Edit: Interesting item. Visceral Games also encountered problems with the Frostbite engine.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 28, 2017 21:16:43 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Kotaku has an update article about the collapse of Visceral Games.
Apparently, it had nothing to do about SP. I'm breathing easier about Anthem, now.
(🌸=◡=)
Edit: Interesting item. Visceral Games also encountered problems with the Frostbite engine. Personally, I don't get his obsession with Frostbite and people having problems with it. The PUBG development team has problems with developing on Unreal and it is taking Epic to make core changes to the engine for the features they want to implement to work. I am pretty sure there are plenty of stories around all the different engines and developers having problems getting what they want to do with it to work inside the scope of those engines. It is just not reported on because well they aren't EA.
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Elvis has left the building
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Oct 12, 2017 11:02:40 GMT
October 2017
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Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Oct 28, 2017 23:29:37 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Kotaku has an update article about the collapse of Visceral Games.
Apparently, it had nothing to do about SP. I'm breathing easier about Anthem, now.
(🌸=◡=)
Edit: Interesting item. Visceral Games also encountered problems with the Frostbite engine. Personally, I don't get his obsession with Frostbite and people having problems with it. The PUBG development team has problems with developing on Unreal and it is taking Epic to make core changes to the engine for the features they want to implement to work. Yeah but the PUBG team are little more than modders who get upset when somebody else does the only thing that they do (that they did not invent but claim ownership over for some reason) better while offering it free.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,890 Likes: 8,905
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8,905
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
5,890
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 29, 2017 0:56:13 GMT
Personally, I don't get his obsession with Frostbite and people having problems with it. The PUBG development team has problems with developing on Unreal and it is taking Epic to make core changes to the engine for the features they want to implement to work. Yeah but the PUBG team are little more than modders who get upset when somebody else does the only thing that they do (that they did not invent but claim ownership over for some reason) better while offering it free. My understanding was that they were upset at two things, it wasn't because they used the same genre it was that Epic used technology they helped design for PUBG (which I think is something they should understand Epic might do since it is their engine), but the other was that Epic used PUBG in their press statement.
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Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,572 Likes: 12,621
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∯ Interjector in Chief
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Heimdall
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Oct 29, 2017 9:22:19 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Kotaku has an update article about the collapse of Visceral Games.
Apparently, it had nothing to do about SP. I'm breathing easier about Anthem, now.
(🌸=◡=)
Edit: Interesting item. Visceral Games also encountered problems with the Frostbite engine. Personally, I don't get his obsession with Frostbite and people having problems with it. The PUBG development team has problems with developing on Unreal and it is taking Epic to make core changes to the engine for the features they want to implement to work. I am pretty sure there are plenty of stories around all the different engines and developers having problems getting what they want to do with it to work inside the scope of those engines. It is just not reported on because well they aren't EA. I think having all their studios work with the same engine is supposed to help with these issues. Bioware had to develope new tools in Frostbite for development of DAI, but now all EA studios have access to those tools. It’s actually a pretty cool long term plan, but it creates significant roadblocks for a ‘first’ game that requires different tools.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,890 Likes: 8,905
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1561
0
8,905
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
5,890
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 29, 2017 12:55:57 GMT
Personally, I don't get his obsession with Frostbite and people having problems with it. The PUBG development team has problems with developing on Unreal and it is taking Epic to make core changes to the engine for the features they want to implement to work. I am pretty sure there are plenty of stories around all the different engines and developers having problems getting what they want to do with it to work inside the scope of those engines. It is just not reported on because well they aren't EA. I think having all their studios work with the same engine is supposed to help with these issues. Bioware had to develope new tools in Frostbite for development of DAI, but now all EA studios have access to those tools. It’s actually a pretty cool long term plan, but it creates significant roadblocks for a ‘first’ game that requires different tools. That is my thinking as well, there is a lot of internal development around Frostbite right now and people are learning what needs to be done and changed to help ease the processes. Now I could see a more concerning trend with second and third generation of development around the engine for then the majority of the teams have at least one game's worth of development experience with the engine and understand its limitations and can work accordingly.
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