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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Oct 15, 2017 2:08:54 GMT
A lot of good discussion in this thread, and important points on these questionable practices I don't feel I need to reiterate. As far as Anthem is specifically concerned, I agree it's not a question of if, but one of just-how-invasive MT/paid LBs will be. Being a new IP, and not one with an established fan/player base, I think they'll just want to get their foot in the door... for the first game. It'll also depend on whether the game is strictly SP & co-op, or will there be PvP as well. If there is a PvP element, I don't expect they'll go the BF2 model right out of the gate. I can't see them risking that kind of negative publicity right off the bat. They would probably lean more towards cosmetic/emotes and maybe minor powerups (a la D2). But if it's strictly SP & Co-op, I could easily see more gear-based paid LBs. Anthem 2 however... all bets are off. Especially if the game becomes extremely popular. I agree that for a version 1.0, they are unlikely to do something wildly unpopular, like mandatory pay-to-win. But I think everything else is fair game, even partially mandatory MT for Achievers. I'd even say it's slightly more likely that there will be partially mandatory MT if there is no PvP, like, tiered raids where the top tier is impossible to defeat with free grinding alone. While it's still pay-to-win, it's slightly less obvious that it is so with co-op tiered raids, whereas with PvP it's in your face when a whale one-shots you with a weapon you've never heard of. Hopefully, they won't do anything dumb, like add a more greedy MT policy within a month or three of release, in a mandatory patch update. Which makes me think they can't start mild, they have to start with whatever they think they can get away with maximally for the life cycle of the version.
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Post by NUM13ER on Oct 15, 2017 11:24:05 GMT
There's a grey area for some of these mechanics in gaming which I suspect will remain so. However there are clearly blatant gambling systems and models being aimed at gamers of all ages not being regulated. Personally if it sees an end to pay-to-win and loot boxes aimed at addictive personalities then I welcome it.
Especially considering a lot of games, especially on mobile platforms, are aimed at kids. Now I'm not going on a "think of the children" rant but rather don't want to see a generation of gamers thinking this sort of business model is the norm for videogames.
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Post by SofaJockey on Oct 15, 2017 13:00:59 GMT
What will matter is whether the inevitable microtransactions are predatory or not.
I consider microtransactions to be predatory when they grant access to items/skills only with paid currently vs. in-game currency. If everything is able to be accessed by playing, that's tolerable.
Similarly, if the grinding economy puts in-game currency beyond reach, that's also predatory in my view.
If I can play the game without spending any money, through reasonable time invested rather than cash, that's acceptable.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Oct 15, 2017 16:06:04 GMT
The RNG aspect of it is what I find obviously contemptable.
Make it plain and clear what you are getting... I do not enjoy the god damn slot machines, and yet playing ME3MP I became sorta ok with the practice because for me it was the only game in town and I was going to play it one way or another.
No video game that will come out moving forward will ever have anywhere near the hold Mass Effect had on me, and that is not because great games won't come out. The experience of ME3 fundamentally changed gamimg for me, and perhaps even broke it. The only chance BioWare had to fix things for me was DAI, and, welp...
The industry changes are what came home to me since the ME3 release. I truly believe indies are our only hope.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Oct 15, 2017 17:44:52 GMT
There's a grey area for some of these mechanics in gaming which I suspect will remain so. However there are clearly blatant gambling systems and models being aimed at gamers of all ages not being regulated. Personally if it sees an end to pay-to-win and loot boxes aimed at addictive personalities then I welcome it. Especially considering a lot of games, especially on mobile platforms, are aimed at kids. Now I'm not going on a "think of the children" rant but rather don't want to see a generation of gamers thinking this sort of business model is the norm for videogames. I completely sympathize with the sentiment, but when has regulatory suppression of a vice ever had the desired effect? Prohibition: made things worse. War on drugs: made things worse. UIGEA: made things worse (depending on context -- made things much better for the businesses that were maneuvering to kill the competition). I don't know what the right answer is, but I do know what the wrong answer is, and that's trying to regulate it away. The RNG aspect of it is what I find obviously contemptable. Make it plain and clear what you are getting... I do not enjoy the god damn slot machines ... Agreed. When RNG is used purely for the Skinner Box effect -- intermitant reinforcement -- it's deplorable. Maybe that's the solution? ERSB and PEGI should have a new labeling that means predatory RNG mechanics are central to the game. Then informed consumers can choose not to purchase. But when RNG loot is used for defensible game design purposes, like, for a realistic modeling of luck for a context where luck is relevant, I think it's fine. For example, suppose everyone can get the ultra-rare Lance of Boils by killing all three boss trolls, then it wouldn't be so bad if an RNG roll allowed some players to get it by only killing 1 or 2 of the 3. The RNG should be used only as a short cut in what is otherwise a totally deterministic and predictable amount of effort.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Oct 15, 2017 18:07:42 GMT
But when RNG loot is used for defensible game design purposes, like, for a realistic modeling of luck for a context where luck is relevant, I think it's fine. For example, suppose everyone can get the ultra-rare Lance of Boils by killing all three boss trolls, then it wouldn't be so bad if an RNG roll allowed some players to get it by only killing 1 or 2 of the 3. The RNG should be used only as a short cut in what is otherwise a totally deterministic and predictable amount of effort. This is the area where RNG has a place. I also don't mind it in SP games where you get random loot from many of your killed opponents, which is common in almost every game for a long time now. Regulation of gambling is pretty necessary. It is a harder drug than some. It needs at least as much regulation as alcohol and tobacco, at minimum. And it should not be sold to children as the wolf in sheep's clothing, conditioning their minds for more gambling down the road. Bally's makes gambling machines and video game machines, this is not a coincidence.
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Post by Sartoz on Oct 15, 2017 18:24:15 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Perhaps a regulation that removes any randomness from a MT?
In other words, you get the actual item that you pay for. Obviously it's a pay-to-win formula. However, gamers are a fickle lot and multiplayer gamers won't stand for it especially for subscription type MP games. This will limit the amount a player puts out just to get the "awesome" gear.... will also limit a publisher's MT formula but that's the price of doing business. (🌸=◡=)
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Post by Superhik on Oct 15, 2017 20:36:00 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Perhaps a regulation that removes any randomness from a MT?
In other words, you get the actual item that you pay for. Obviously it's a pay-to-win formula. However, gamers are a fickle lot and multiplayer gamers won't stand for it especially for subscription type MP games. This will limit the amount a player puts out just to get the "awesome" gear.... will also limit a publisher's MT formula but that's the price of doing business. (🌸=◡=)
What's up with -....- ? That some kind of secret symbolism?
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Post by Label07 on Oct 16, 2017 3:19:14 GMT
"take risky action in the hope of a desired result" - gambling definition
That sums up loot boxes. Bioware, don't jump on this stupid P2W trend, I would rather not boycott Anthem as well...
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Post by Sartoz on Oct 16, 2017 3:39:06 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
My - oh - my. Things are getting interesting since we know Anthem will be a "live service".
Looks like these MTs are now getting the attention of game review publishers. Especially from this article:
Other links:
Well, I'm sure you can google some more. (🌸=◡=)
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 16, 2017 16:42:51 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Perhaps a regulation that removes any randomness from a MT?
In other words, you get the actual item that you pay for. Obviously it's a pay-to-win formula. However, gamers are a fickle lot and multiplayer gamers won't stand for it especially for subscription type MP games. This will limit the amount a player puts out just to get the "awesome" gear.... will also limit a publisher's MT formula but that's the price of doing business. (🌸=◡=)
The thing is - MT in SP are just pointless. If they crank up the grind to make loot crates look juicy then it's time players just look for cheats. It's always been a way to skip not so enjoyable parts of games. In essence SP microtransactions for gear and equipment are just a form of cheating. Like paid cheating.
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Post by SofaJockey on Oct 16, 2017 20:49:07 GMT
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Post by Sartoz on Oct 16, 2017 21:01:56 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Expect the government statement to come at the speed of molasses. (🌸=◡=)
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LogicGunn
N3
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 868 Likes: 1,715
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
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Post by LogicGunn on Oct 17, 2017 11:29:19 GMT
I'm very conflicted on this. I'm not a fan of government interference, but I also know gamers who spend far too much money they can't afford on these mystery transactions. It's probably a good thing for it to be brought up in parliament though. An online game with an intended 10 year life span is going to do whatever makes it the most money, starting with the most money in the first year then the most money over it's lifetime. I know it's a year out but have they released any info on whether it'll be a monthly subscription? Cause I can't think of an online game that I've played that has kept that up for a game's entire lifespan. Seems that long-term the real money is in the microtransactions.
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 17, 2017 13:02:35 GMT
I'm very conflicted on this. I'm not a fan of government interference, but I also know gamers who spend far too much money they can't afford on these mystery transactions. It's probably a good thing for it to be brought up in parliament though. An online game with an intended 10 year life span is going to do whatever makes it the most money, starting with the most money in the first year then the most money over it's lifetime. I know it's a year out but have they released any info on whether it'll be a monthly subscription? Cause I can't think of an online game that I've played that has kept that up for a game's entire lifespan. Seems that long-term the real money is in the microtransactions. Warframe has an OK model, but it's F2P. Not exactly what I'm expecting of EA. I expect to get a full price game with Microshitactions on top. Or rather not, cause if it turns out like that I let others have fun with it.
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Post by Sartoz on Oct 17, 2017 20:26:38 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
UK gov replied with a boiler plate statement referring the "issue" back to the Game/Gambling Commission. I was surprised at the quick response.
Also, ESRB also came out with a statement indicating loot boxes don't qualify as gambling.
This is not over, I think. (🌸=◡=)
Side Note: EA shut down Visceral Studios.
A Kotaku article indicates that EA was unhappy with the game direction = single player adventure and a 'pivot' was necessary. Also, from the article "...It’s safe to presume that the new incarnation of this Star Wars game will involve “games as a service” elements, as has been EA’s mandate for quite some time now. "
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N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 17, 2017 20:50:13 GMT
At the moment in transit, so little time to write, but my website is working on an article regarding some interesting info on microtransactions and how companies influence things with it online.
That is a dangerous precedent though...that said, it's not gambling in the strictest definition ultimately, as most of the time it's not for monetary reward unless it's for esport prizes, which can throw a wrench in things.
More to come.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 18, 2017 1:57:46 GMT
So here is the article I was referring to. To quote it: Some scenarios include matchmaking you with people who have cosmetic purchases, (if you see it, you might be tempted to buy it because it looks good) to the more "sinister scenarios" such as matchmaking you with better players who own better in-game equipment, with the hopes that their use of better equipment will encourage you to spend money on it to get even with them. It can also match you with lower-skilled players so you get satisfaction for your purchase. That is a dangerous precedent if this patent is implemented into the design algorithms of a multiplayer game like Destiny 2, for example. Moreso than loot boxes, that is pure manipulation of a product, or at least can be if abused. It should be noted Activision does not have any of these systems in their games now, and that the patent was created by an independent R&D team for the company. Still...that is a more dangerous precedent over loot boxes id say. This, combined with the random nature of a loot box may be closer to the gambling accusations. But that is stretching the definition a bit.
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Post by Sartoz on Oct 18, 2017 2:23:08 GMT
So here is the article I was referring to. To quote it: Some scenarios include matchmaking you with people who have cosmetic purchases, (if you see it, you might be tempted to buy it because it looks good) to the more "sinister scenarios" such as matchmaking you with better players who own better in-game equipment, with the hopes that their use of better equipment will encourage you to spend money on it to get even with them. It can also match you with lower-skilled players so you get satisfaction for your purchase. That is a dangerous precedent if this patent is implemented into the design algorithms of a multiplayer game like Destiny 2, for example. Moreso than loot boxes, that is pure manipulation of a product, or at least can be if abused. -(_ANTHEM_)-
Good read and yeah, the industry is moving in that direction.
EA, must bow down to their investment gods. Thus, imo, the "industry" moved (me? I think they pushed it) in the direction to please those gods. MTs were always proven to be a source of additional revenue and capitalizing on that is a no-brainer. Given Anthem as a "game-service", it will have every trick in the current play book to provide the necessary incentives to players.
If Bio staff goes to events to promote a game, they should be bombarded with relevant questions about this. I expect no answers and believe that actual game details will be provided near launch as well as the demo. This action will minimize any negativity (they hope) that can derail sales and avoid the "MEA death.".
Future Anthem demos and marketing PR will, obviously, emphasize non MT aspects.
(🌸=◡=)
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N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 18, 2017 2:36:15 GMT
So here is the article I was referring to. To quote it: Some scenarios include matchmaking you with people who have cosmetic purchases, (if you see it, you might be tempted to buy it because it looks good) to the more "sinister scenarios" such as matchmaking you with better players who own better in-game equipment, with the hopes that their use of better equipment will encourage you to spend money on it to get even with them. It can also match you with lower-skilled players so you get satisfaction for your purchase. That is a dangerous precedent if this patent is implemented into the design algorithms of a multiplayer game like Destiny 2, for example. Moreso than loot boxes, that is pure manipulation of a product, or at least can be if abused. -(_ANTHEM_)-
Good read and yeah, the industry is moving in that direction.
EA, must bow down to their investment gods. Thus, imo, the "industry" moved (me? I think they pushed it) in the direction to please those gods. MTs were always proven to be a source of additional revenue and capitalizing on that is a no-brainer. Given Anthem as a "game-service", it will have every trick in the current play book to provide the necessary incentives to players.
If Bio staff goes to events to promote a game, they should be bombarded with relevant questions about this. I expect no answers and believe that actual game details will be provided near launch as well as the demo. This action will minimize any negativity (they hope) that can derail sales and avoid the "MEA death.".
Future Anthem demos and marketing PR will, obviously, emphasize non MT aspects.
(🌸=◡=)
More than you think...This one I worked on regarding Dev costs for Dead Space 2 being quasi-revealed. I was talking with some of the other writers about this, ultimately one of three things may happen. The continuous trend of what we have now until games are digital and segregated to different platforms like Netflix and Hulu (which they are getting there...) a continuation of the service model for years on end now (which is the most likely outcome) or a scaleback of game budgets. My argument though is the budget scaleback would make games more akin to the production values we see in Mass Effect: Andromeda. A bit loose and maybe less animation than before...but money would be poured into different assets vs the overall look. Andromeda already had a smaller budget than most titles- roughly $40 million for dev costs plus who knows how much for marketing - so it's very unlikely we will see that scaledown any time soon, if at all. That ship has sailed. I think the ultimate fate for all of this is what we have...not exactly trend following, but publishers and devs using a lot of different tricks to continue to meet with demands for development. It's basic economics...the demand for games is high but the cost is being outpaced because of demand. So something has to give there and for the industry it seems to be the service model since it's the only metric that seems to work. After all, people clamoring for Andromeda DLC is proof of that in one respect...the game is an ironic throwback of being a one and done title that is rare now a days without getting much support save for it's initial launch and several patch fixes. The service model they are using for multiplayer is still raking in money though, but it is kind of a sad irony how the tables have turned.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 18, 2017 5:34:24 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Good read and yeah, the industry is moving in that direction.
EA, must bow down to their investment gods. Thus, imo, the "industry" moved (me? I think they pushed it) in the direction to please those gods. MTs were always proven to be a source of additional revenue and capitalizing on that is a no-brainer. Given Anthem as a "game-service", it will have every trick in the current play book to provide the necessary incentives to players.
If Bio staff goes to events to promote a game, they should be bombarded with relevant questions about this. I expect no answers and believe that actual game details will be provided near launch as well as the demo. This action will minimize any negativity (they hope) that can derail sales and avoid the "MEA death.".
Future Anthem demos and marketing PR will, obviously, emphasize non MT aspects.
(🌸=◡=)
More than you think...This one I worked on regarding Dev costs for Dead Space 2 being quasi-revealed. I was talking with some of the other writers about this, ultimately one of three things may happen. The continuous trend of what we have now until games are digital and segregated to different platforms like Netflix and Hulu (which they are getting there...) a continuation of the service model for years on end now (which is the most likely outcome) or a scaleback of game budgets. My argument though is the budget scaleback would make games more akin to the production values we see in Mass Effect: Andromeda. A bit loose and maybe less animation than before...but money would be poured into different assets vs the overall look. Andromeda already had a smaller budget than most titles- roughly $40 million for dev costs plus who knows how much for marketing - so it's very unlikely we will see that scaledown any time soon, if at all. That ship has sailed. I think the ultimate fate for all of this is what we have...not exactly trend following, but publishers and devs using a lot of different tricks to continue to meet with demands for development. It's basic economics...the demand for games is high but the cost is being outpaced because of demand. So something has to give there and for the industry it seems to be the service model since it's the only metric that seems to work. After all, people clamoring for Andromeda DLC is proof of that in one respect...the game is an ironic throwback of being a one and done title that is rare now a days without getting much support save for it's initial launch and several patch fixes. The service model they are using for multiplayer is still raking in money though, but it is kind of a sad irony how the tables have turned. The thing is that the costs of development are going higher and higher and players are unwilling to accept smaller budget games for they will pick apart the pieces they feel are subpar. You could even see that with Mass Effect 2 and 3 where people complained about the graphics belonging on a Xbox. So I am not sure where development can cut back costs where players will accept the cutbacks when it is labeled as an EA or BioWare game. Something to think about costs for Andromeda was going by AskAGameDev the average salary for a developer is 50k and lets say on average they had 100 people working on Andromeda at any one time that works out to $25 million for salary and I think that is low balling it. Then you need all the other costs associated with it such as licensing middlewear, rent, utilities, computer hardware. The costs just add up.
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Praise the Justicat!
7,910
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catastrophy
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 18, 2017 8:52:38 GMT
More than you think...This one I worked on regarding Dev costs for Dead Space 2 being quasi-revealed. I was talking with some of the other writers about this, ultimately one of three things may happen. The continuous trend of what we have now until games are digital and segregated to different platforms like Netflix and Hulu (which they are getting there...) a continuation of the service model for years on end now (which is the most likely outcome) or a scaleback of game budgets. My argument though is the budget scaleback would make games more akin to the production values we see in Mass Effect: Andromeda. A bit loose and maybe less animation than before...but money would be poured into different assets vs the overall look. Andromeda already had a smaller budget than most titles- roughly $40 million for dev costs plus who knows how much for marketing - so it's very unlikely we will see that scaledown any time soon, if at all. That ship has sailed. I think the ultimate fate for all of this is what we have...not exactly trend following, but publishers and devs using a lot of different tricks to continue to meet with demands for development. It's basic economics...the demand for games is high but the cost is being outpaced because of demand. So something has to give there and for the industry it seems to be the service model since it's the only metric that seems to work. After all, people clamoring for Andromeda DLC is proof of that in one respect...the game is an ironic throwback of being a one and done title that is rare now a days without getting much support save for it's initial launch and several patch fixes. The service model they are using for multiplayer is still raking in money though, but it is kind of a sad irony how the tables have turned. The thing is that the costs of development are going higher and higher and players are unwilling to accept smaller budget games for they will pick apart the pieces they feel are subpar. You could even see that with Mass Effect 2 and 3 where people complained about the graphics belonging on a Xbox. So I am not sure where development can cut back costs where players will accept the cutbacks when it is labeled as an EA or BioWare game. Something to think about costs for Andromeda was going by AskAGameDev the average salary for a developer is 50k and lets say on average they had 100 people working on Andromeda at any one time that works out to $25 million for salary and I think that is low balling it. Then you need all the other costs associated with it such as licensing middlewear, rent, utilities, computer hardware. The costs just add up. You mustn't forget that the margin has significantly increased in the last couple of years, by cutting out the middlemen, the retailers. EA has a quota of roughly 50% in digital sales now (Markets vary, platforms too - I had expected this to be higher but this was Sörensen statement on analyst conference). They run their own platform (Origin) and brick and mortar retailing is reducing shelve space everywhere. That is still 50% untapped potential for margin increase (it'll never be 100% but you get the idea). Yes, development is become more costly, labour cost, new tech. At the same time they have vastly increased their profit margin and all the bucks that went to retailers are now feeding their own pockets. Plus we get season passes and microbucks on top. The 60 buck game is largely a myth when you look at "triple A" games. MP Games like Battlefield run the expansion model so when you come back and a DLC dropped it becomes harder to find or satisfyingly play the vanilla game anymore. Now they "heard" about the complaints that it splits the playerbase (my ass - they knew it beforehand) and now they came up with the fantastic new PtW model in SW BF2. And don't get me started on marketing budgets. They could as well just add a dose of cocaine in all game boxes to sneeze through when you open it. Oh wait, when was the last time you bought a boxed game actually?
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,899 Likes: 8,927
inherit
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8,927
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
5,899
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 18, 2017 12:11:29 GMT
The thing is that the costs of development are going higher and higher and players are unwilling to accept smaller budget games for they will pick apart the pieces they feel are subpar. You could even see that with Mass Effect 2 and 3 where people complained about the graphics belonging on a Xbox. So I am not sure where development can cut back costs where players will accept the cutbacks when it is labeled as an EA or BioWare game. Something to think about costs for Andromeda was going by AskAGameDev the average salary for a developer is 50k and lets say on average they had 100 people working on Andromeda at any one time that works out to $25 million for salary and I think that is low balling it. Then you need all the other costs associated with it such as licensing middlewear, rent, utilities, computer hardware. The costs just add up. You mustn't forget that the margin has significantly increased in the last couple of years, by cutting out the middlemen, the retailers. EA has a quota of roughly 50% in digital sales now (Markets vary, platforms too - I had expected this to be higher but this was Sörensen statement on analyst conference). They run their own platform (Origin) and brick and mortar retailing is reducing shelve space everywhere. That is still 50% untapped potential for margin increase (it'll never be 100% but you get the idea). Yes, development is become more costly, labour cost, new tech. At the same time they have vastly increased their profit margin and all the bucks that went to retailers are now feeding their own pockets. Plus we get season passes and microbucks on top. The 60 buck game is largely a myth when you look at "triple A" games. MP Games like Battlefield run the expansion model so when you come back and a DLC dropped it becomes harder to find or satisfyingly play the vanilla game anymore. Now they "heard" about the complaints that it splits the playerbase (my ass - they knew it beforehand) and now they came up with the fantastic new PtW model in SW BF2. And don't get me started on marketing budgets. They could as well just add a dose of cocaine in all game boxes to sneeze through when you open it. Oh wait, when was the last time you bought a boxed game actually? Wouldn't that margin only apply for PC versions of the game only since they don't sell through Origin on the consoles and have to use the marketplace owned and operated by Microsoft and Sony which would still would possibly be a 30% cut for them which is close to selling at a brick and mortar location. Edit: I only buy my PC games digitally since it is next to impossible to find any in retail stores anymore, but console games I do since I share them with friends.
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Praise the Justicat!
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caustic_agent
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 18, 2017 12:58:57 GMT
You mustn't forget that the margin has significantly increased in the last couple of years, by cutting out the middlemen, the retailers. EA has a quota of roughly 50% in digital sales now (Markets vary, platforms too - I had expected this to be higher but this was Sörensen statement on analyst conference). They run their own platform (Origin) and brick and mortar retailing is reducing shelve space everywhere. That is still 50% untapped potential for margin increase (it'll never be 100% but you get the idea). Yes, development is become more costly, labour cost, new tech. At the same time they have vastly increased their profit margin and all the bucks that went to retailers are now feeding their own pockets. Plus we get season passes and microbucks on top. The 60 buck game is largely a myth when you look at "triple A" games. MP Games like Battlefield run the expansion model so when you come back and a DLC dropped it becomes harder to find or satisfyingly play the vanilla game anymore. Now they "heard" about the complaints that it splits the playerbase (my ass - they knew it beforehand) and now they came up with the fantastic new PtW model in SW BF2. And don't get me started on marketing budgets. They could as well just add a dose of cocaine in all game boxes to sneeze through when you open it. Oh wait, when was the last time you bought a boxed game actually? Wouldn't that margin only apply for PC versions of the game only since they don't sell through Origin on the consoles and have to use the marketplace owned and operated by Microsoft and Sony which would still would possibly be a 30% cut for them which is close to selling at a brick and mortar location. Edit: I only buy my PC games digitally since it is next to impossible to find any in retail stores anymore, but console games I do since I share them with friends. Yes, the PC market is the most "advanced" when it comes to digital sales, but it seems still with potential. Yes, and digital sales on consoles pass through the console operators. I don't know the cut they take from sales, but I bet it's substantial. From what I hear they take fees for anything you want to push up their network.
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https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Oct 18, 2017 13:42:48 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
No doubt, dev costs are high for a AAA game. Add the marketing budgets and we see the total cost = 2X of dev cost, which I see as insane.
Nevertheless, I can see the rationale for cost control. Thus one Game Editor (FB3) to rule all studios and use re-usable assets and procedural cinematics (why MEA cinematics were initially awful). I can also see why game pubs want to eliminate physical distribution and use their own digital downloading service (EA = Origin).
Still, while I see MTs as recouping costs the pubs are going overboard with this. Designing a game to "encourage" MTs is per se not wrong. But, the randomness of Card Packs is where I see the thing as gambling. Buying game points with real money then using those points as in-game currency to buy random CPs/LBs is the same as buying chips from the casino then using those chips to gamble.
The patent mentioned in Linksocarina's up-post is most disturbing. Though, in the case of Anthem, the co-op mechanics seems to mitigate this potential design.
For an overall view of game dev costs, here is a link: (🌸=◡=)
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