inherit
7836
0
2,286
shinobiwan
1,171
Apr 19, 2017 19:26:11 GMT
April 2017
shinobiwan
|
Post by shinobiwan on May 9, 2019 18:47:03 GMT
I have no idea what you're talking about at this point. There are plenty of laws prohibiting the sale of goods or services to children under the auspices of protecting them, e.g. tobacco, alcohol. As I mentioned, gambling is already generally outlawed, and the establishments that have gambling licenses are still prohibited from allowing children to gamble. Again, I'm not taking a position on the bill, but to attack it in this manner is bizarre.
Everyone is trying to compare selling something to kids in person to selling items online. Yes a child can't go into a casino and gamble, or buy beer. But if a child goes online and signs up to play in an online poker room because their parents just gave them their credit card and didn't keep track of what they were using it for, that's on the parents. That's all I'm saying. There's a huge difference between the two. That's actually illegal as well. Harder to catch, sure, but still illegal. I won't bore everyone with how the enforcement of these kinds of things work, but the company can be held liable.
|
|
inherit
1817
0
8,390
Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
3,366
Oct 18, 2016 21:17:18 GMT
October 2016
kappaneko
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Kappa Neko on May 9, 2019 19:51:47 GMT
It's far more insidious than exploiting bad parenting by having kids buy shit in games with their credit cards.
It's about re-wiring the brains of these kids for gambling addiction in the future. For the cheap thrill of opening boxes and getting trinkets and feeling great about it.
These companies are creating a specific consumer behavior in childhood that will carry over into adulthood. How are kids supposed to understand that if half if the adult population is too stupid to understand it? Hell we have tons of people DEFENDING this shit as "treating themselves" with some cosmetic stuff that would have been FREE ten years ago. Rewired right there by years of exposure to this crap.
It works.
It works even better on children regardless of their actual access to a credit card. Just the fact that they WANT these things is bad enough. Because once they have money to spend they will.
Do you know that there are studies that unborn children remember commercials they heard in the womb? Companies are trying to brand children as early as possible. All kinds of studies show that the brands we grew up with we always remember fondly and chances are we will still buy them decades later. This is nothing new. I grew up watching a lot of TV and had all these toys advertized TO ME. Not my parents. They bought the things for me because I wanted them. Because I saw it on TV.
Add to this old practice of targeting children as consumers the next level of making them actual gambling addicts for life and I say, regulate SOME of it, please!
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on May 9, 2019 21:18:23 GMT
It's far more insidious than exploiting bad parenting by having kids buy shit in games with their credit cards. It's about re-wiring the brains of these kids for gambling addiction in the future. For the cheap thrill of opening boxes and getting trinkets and feeling great about it. These companies are creating a specific consumer behavior in childhood that will carry over into adulthood. How are kids supposed to understand that if half if the adult population is too stupid to understand it? Hell we have tons of people DEFENDING this shit as "treating themselves" with some cosmetic stuff that would have been FREE ten years ago. Rewired right there by years of exposure to this crap. It works. It works even better on children regardless of their actual access to a credit card. Just the fact that they WANT these things is bad enough. Because once they have money to spend they will. Do you know that there are studies that unborn children remember commercials they heard in the womb? Companies are trying to brand children as early as possible. All kinds of studies show that the brands we grew up with we always remember fondly and chances are we will still buy them decades later. This is nothing new. I grew up watching a lot of TV and had all these toys advertized TO ME. Not my parents. They bought the things for me because I wanted them. Because I saw it on TV. Add to this old practice of targeting children as consumers the next level of making them actual gambling addicts for life and I say, regulate SOME of it, please! It's not different than places like Dave & Busters giving kids cards to get them into a credit card mentality, while their parents keep putting more and more money on the card in an attempt to buy an Xbox or something. I don't see anyone trying to pass a bill to limit this. How are you going to regulate it anyway. This congressman said if kids are going to play games designed for adults they need to be walled off. If kids are playing games designed for adults they've already ignored one wall. If they're running up mtx transactions they've ignored another. How is legislation going to do anything about this. This part of the article sums up my thoughts perfectly. " We look forward to sharing with the senator the tools and information the industry already provides that keeps the control of in-game spending in parents’ hands. Parents already have the ability to limit or prohibit in-game purchases with easy to use parental controls."People are basically saying that legislation needs to be passed to do something that can already be done in literally seconds. This is all moot, because this bill has no chance of being passed anyway.
|
|
inherit
7836
0
2,286
shinobiwan
1,171
Apr 19, 2017 19:26:11 GMT
April 2017
shinobiwan
|
Post by shinobiwan on May 9, 2019 21:50:35 GMT
How are you going to regulate it anyway. The short answer is a mix of government investigations and private rights of action. This is all moot, because this bill has no chance of being passed anyway. Agreed.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 10, 2019 13:04:09 GMT
If my daughter wants to spend her allowance, birthday, Christmas money on an app game, she can go right ahead But that's not right. If anything, it is encouraging of an addictive, self-harming behaviour in a minor.
|
|
Thrombin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Posts: 895 Likes: 1,300
inherit
1491
0
Aug 14, 2019 15:29:00 GMT
1,300
Thrombin
895
Sept 8, 2016 11:35:16 GMT
September 2016
thrombin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
|
Post by Thrombin on May 10, 2019 13:19:19 GMT
If my daughter wants to spend her allowance, birthday, Christmas money on an app game, she can go right ahead But that's not right. If anything, it is encouraging of an addictive, self-harming behaviour in a minor.
Anything can be addictive in the sense that if you enjoy it you are going to want to keep doing it.Does that mean children shouldn't be allowed to enjoy things? Or spend their own money on stuff they enjoy? Is that really self-harming? Any money kids get isn't supposed to be used for necessities. It's the parents job to handle necessities.
If anything, it will teach them the value of money if they end up spending it all on apps and having nothing left for other stuff. Better sooner than later to learn that lesson!
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on May 10, 2019 13:32:33 GMT
If my daughter wants to spend her allowance, birthday, Christmas money on an app game, she can go right ahead But that's not right. If anything, it is encouraging of an addictive, self-harming behaviour in a minor. Well firstly, I'm not encouraging anything. Someone said that children find ways to get around your rules, that she can go and get a debit card. So my response was if she wants to sneak and spend her little bit on money on that, she can go right ahead. She's just not going to be spending mine willy-nilly because I actually use the parental controls offered to me. Secondly, she's not going to get addicted to mtx on her allowance. If anything she would spend her little bit money on it, see what she spent was a waste and didn't help her any, and realize there are better things to spend her money on like clothes and toys.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 10, 2019 13:53:00 GMT
Is that really self-harming? Instilling a gambling or gambling-like, if you disagree with the term, addiction to kids? No less than selling drugs. You are virtually manufacturing an adult gambling addict. At the very least, games like Fortnite and FIFA/Madden, should be rated as M and not E. If anything she would spend her little bit money on it, see what she spent was a waste and didn't help her any, and realize there are better things to spend her money on like clothes and toys. Maybe your child. Other children might have a predisposition towards addictive tendencies and, regardless of how little they spend out of their allowance, become addicted to it regardless.
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on May 10, 2019 14:27:25 GMT
Anything fun is going to be addictive, especially if it's done in excess. It's no different than children being glued to their smartphones, tablets and computers all day. Why do you think childhood obesity is so high. They'd do more passing legislation that limits time a child can be logged into these games than the nonsense in this proposed bill. If my daughter brought me her tablet one day and said I really want this thing in this game can I get it. I'd say yeah, but this means you get no allowance this week. If she says OK, I'd do it. Because when she comes and asks for something else, I'm going to say you spent your money to buy whatever it was in that game. Then she's going to learn to make decisions and determine the value of things she wants and prioritize.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 10, 2019 14:38:33 GMT
They'd do more passing legislation that limits time a child can be logged into these games than the nonsense in this proposed bill. You can still buy lootboxes, because of how easily accessible they are. Then she's going to learn to make decisions and determine the value of things she wants and prioritize. Sure. But what if your child prioritizes in game purchases time and again over everything else. It might seem harmless to you, or perhaps any other parent, but perhaps in the child's mind, that is all that matters, because that one or two lootboxes they bought, was all it took to get them hooked. I am arguing that, either pass some legislation to regulation predatory practices, that can also target minors, or at the very least, change their ESRB rating, from E to M, to reflect your target audience. A game that features such practices should not be addressed to minors.
|
|
cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,586 Likes: 2,396
inherit
6438
0
Dec 15, 2021 17:52:40 GMT
2,396
cypherj
1,586
Mar 28, 2017 14:46:05 GMT
March 2017
cypherj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by cypherj on May 10, 2019 15:14:52 GMT
They'd do more passing legislation that limits time a child can be logged into these games than the nonsense in this proposed bill. You can still buy lootboxes, because of how easily accessible they are. Then she's going to learn to make decisions and determine the value of things she wants and prioritize. Sure. But what if your child prioritizes in game purchases time and again over everything else. It might seem harmless to you, or perhaps any other parent, but perhaps in the child's mind, that is all that matters, because that one or two lootboxes they bought, was all it took to get them hooked. I am arguing that, either pass some legislation to regulation predatory practices, that can also target minors, or at the very least, change their ESRB rating, from E to M, to reflect your target audience. A game that features such practices should not be addressed to minors. I've already said I'm all for accurate ratings and even warnings on games that contain this type of thing. But the rest to me is nonsense. I can just imagine this during the court challenge. Judge: What exactly is your company doing to prevent these in game item sales to minors.
Lawyer for Company X: Our games have a warning that they contain mtx items, and they're rated M for mature audiences.
Judge: But these games are inevitably going to get into the hands of children. What are you doing to prevent access to children who have the game.
Lawyer for Company X: There are parental controls that can be used to limit these transactions or not allow them at all.
Judge: Well, the ratings are being ignored and the parental controls aren't being used so your company should be held liable.I wish I was being sarcastic, but this is how ridiculous all of this sounds to me.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on May 10, 2019 15:19:10 GMT
Lawyer for Company X: Our games have a warning that they contain mtx items, and they're rated M for mature audiences. FIFA/Madden are rated E and Fortnite is rated T.
|
|
inherit
410
0
Apr 21, 2024 21:02:38 GMT
2,853
Sartoz
6,018
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Sartoz on May 10, 2019 21:34:18 GMT
"Social media and video games prey on user addiction, siphoning our kids' attention from the real world and extracting profits from fostering compulsive habits. No matter this business model's advantages to the tech industry, one thing is clear: there is no excuse for exploiting children through such practices." - Senator Josh Hawley (R-MO)
"It's nice not feeling the need to spot any sleight of hand these days or wonder if the card was chosen or forced. I'm happy to be free from the half-truths and full-on deceptions. And thankful to no longer hear people referred to as 'muggles' like a con-man refers to a 'mark'." - Former Gearbox VP of business development (and voice of Claptrap in Borderlands) David Eddings describes the relief of no longer working with Gearbox CEO Randy Pitchford, who Eddings said assaulted him at GDC 2017 and stalked him on social media
So, we are muggles now are we?
|
|
inherit
410
0
Apr 21, 2024 21:02:38 GMT
2,853
Sartoz
6,018
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Sartoz on May 24, 2019 3:51:07 GMT
EDIT
Of interest: (1) "eases a user's progression through content otherwise available within the game without the purchase of such transaction," (2)"assists a user in accomplishing an achievement within the game that can otherwise be accomplished without the purchase of such transaction." (3)"assists a user in receiving an award associated with the game that is otherwise available in association with the game without the purchase of such transaction." (4)"permits a user to continue to access content of the game that had previously been accessible to the user but has been made inaccessible after the expiration of a timer or a number of gameplay attempts."
I think Anthem may have butted against item 4 with some of their skins promos.....
|
|
inherit
410
0
Apr 21, 2024 21:02:38 GMT
2,853
Sartoz
6,018
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Sartoz on Aug 12, 2019 12:44:09 GMT
OK, it's a grabby title but read the article if you want to be informed about what the FTC is doing.
The ESA is making a weak good faith gesture by mandating the odds be listed on loot boxes. However, ESA members don't have to sign on to this. Researchers and watchdogs say this gesture fails to go far enough as it still leaves game companies with lots of maneuvering space for manipulating the player.
|
|
inherit
410
0
Apr 21, 2024 21:02:38 GMT
2,853
Sartoz
6,018
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Sartoz on Aug 16, 2019 5:57:46 GMT
EA drops Loot-Boxes from another game.
Need for Speed Heat (see article) is the next "victim" with no LBs but paid DLCs appear to be back. We plan to have post launch paid-DLC in the form of car packs. Later this year, we’ll introduce a time-save pack, that will show all collectables on the map. Honestly, that’s it. […] There are no loot boxes in NFS Heat and there won’t be.
Also, Walke described how players will earn new parts for their cars. Payback’s unwieldy card system is gone, replaced with a simple “win a race, get a part” approach.
Customisation options are earned through the completion of in-game events. For example, you spot a street race on your map and notice it has a new performance part up for grabs. Win the race, win the part. Speed cards from NFS Payback are gone.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 16, 2019 16:47:38 GMT
EA drops Loot-Boxes from another game.
Need for Speed Heat (see article) is the next "victim" with no LBs but paid DLCs appear to be back. We plan to have post launch paid-DLC in the form of car packs. Later this year, we’ll introduce a time-save pack, that will show all collectables on the map. Honestly, that’s it. […] There are no loot boxes in NFS Heat and there won’t be.
Also, Walke described how players will earn new parts for their cars. Payback’s unwieldy card system is gone, replaced with a simple “win a race, get a part” approach.
Customisation options are earned through the completion of in-game events. For example, you spot a street race on your map and notice it has a new performance part up for grabs. Win the race, win the part. Speed cards from NFS Payback are gone.
I'm seriously expecting EA to fuck it up in some way, though. There is no way EA won't monetize it further, in some way or other. Maybe they'll sneak MTX in at a later date, like ActiVision does with CoD.
|
|
inherit
265
0
11,980
Pounce de León
Praise the Justicat!
7,910
August 2016
catastrophy
caustic_agent
|
Post by Pounce de León on Aug 26, 2019 15:30:11 GMT
Need for Speed is a shite game. Toss it in the trash can with the yearly sports game franchises. Monetised excessively, barely gameplay, rehashes from last year. Or the year before that.
|
|
inherit
410
0
Apr 21, 2024 21:02:38 GMT
2,853
Sartoz
6,018
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Sartoz on Sept 13, 2019 5:14:08 GMT
UK Parliament: Ban all loot boxes until evidence proves they’re safe for kids
Link to the article is here.
Maybe it will spread like a virus.
|
|
inherit
✜ Theorymancer
2627
0
Jan 16, 2020 14:58:38 GMT
2,733
PillarBiter
2,366
January 2017
pillarbiter
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
PillarBiter
|
Post by PillarBiter on Sept 13, 2019 9:51:20 GMT
UK Parliament: Ban all loot boxes until evidence proves they’re safe for kids
Link to the article is here.
Maybe it will spread like a virus.
...maybe after the brexit?
|
|