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Post by Lorn on Nov 17, 2017 4:27:52 GMT
Well,everyone's entitled to his own opinion. You might be right for all i know,Sylvius,but my nostalgia is too strong with BG2! Can't say it is an opinion I share though I get the impression that Sylvius is the type who would prefer a game like Mount and Blade in regards to how story is handled.I guess he might have a point about Imoen (though technically you can chase after Irenicus for payback or "being curious about the power he can unlock" as flimsy a reason as that is) but again you have no real reason narrative reason to investigate the Nashkel mine and the iron plague other than "just because", I suppose in most narrative driven video games there are some concessions you need to make in order to move the plot along and if you have no interest in following the plot what are you playing for? As far as I am concerned Baldur's Gate 2 is definitely the better of the 2, I mean I like Baldur's Gate 1 but compared to the second there are a lot of glaring deficiencies, Baldur's Gate 2 had far better writing, a far more engaging plot and more interesting locations and questlines, not to mention the companions had far more personality and more to add to the story beyond just being an extra helping hand in combat. Also there is a greater sense of intrigue right from the start of Baldur's Gate 2 and the game does more to engage you in the plot while everything in Baldur's Gate 1 seems more mundane, more humdrum and takes longer for the plot to ramp up. I suppose Sylvius also has a point about having more freedom to explore the map however most of the areas you can explore are empty wilderness environments that you have no real narrative reason to go to beyond making your way through it onto your next location and generally little to find in these areas other than trash mobs and the occasional unique encounter. As much as I do like Baldur's Gate 1 I do get why people think it is overrated, generally when people talk about how great the Baldur's Gate series is and while they generally speak of the series as whole (there was a mod that combined BG2 and BG1 into 1 game) generally it is mostly Baldur's Gate 2 they are thinking of. Perhaps, but he'd hate the game play for being too actiony and not dependent on your skills.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Nov 17, 2017 4:50:05 GMT
I would say I played almost 100 hours in Skyrim. And the experience, although at first addictive when I really thought "I could do anything", made me realize I will never play another sandbox again. Because getting able to do anything means it's all meaningless. I quit after a month and have never touched it since. I think Breath of the Wild is overrated. I played 6 hours of it. It was my first Zelda game ever. I even tried to imagine that Zelda was really sort of Zevran from Dragon Age. But no. Knowing that it was unabashedly a copy pasta story with a new twist that fans somehow forgive them for? (still head scratching that one) on top of all the maker damned Telletubbies noises...on top of the battle mechanics that make you die over and over... Whatever. And I'm salty that they'll get GOTY over HZD, which is an amazing game and NEW IP without ANY Telletubbies noises. Skyrim is a vast ocean that's a few inches deep. Is it really less deep than other Bethesda games? Their whole appeal is freedom and immersion really.
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Post by Lavochkin on Nov 17, 2017 4:54:08 GMT
Skyrim is a vast ocean that's a few inches deep. Is it really less deep than other Bethesda games? Their whole appeal is freedom and immersion really. Well, the only other Beth game i played to the same extent was FO3, so based on that, not really. I enjoyed both for what they were, but a shame that TES' lore doesn't really get utilized well.
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Post by TheHeroOfFerelden on Nov 17, 2017 11:46:56 GMT
Perhaps, but he'd hate the game play for being too actiony and not dependent on your skills. As a person that has spent many an hour playing Mount and Blade,i had to say that skill IS needed in the game's combat.In multiplayer the skill gap between players is totally visible.
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Post by Lorn on Nov 17, 2017 14:10:17 GMT
Perhaps, but he'd hate the game play for being too actiony and not dependent on your skills. As a person that has spent many an hour playing Mount and Blade,i had to say that skill IS needed in the game's combat.In multiplayer the skill gap between players is totally visible. You see, that's the problem, player skill should never be a factor. The only skills that matter are the skills that you add to your character, and the character should live or die by those skills alone.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 15:02:37 GMT
Well,everyone's entitled to his own opinion. As much as I do like Baldur's Gate 1 I do get why people think it is overrated, generally when people talk about how great the Baldur's Gate series is and while they generally speak of the series as whole (there was a mod that combined BG2 and BG1 into 1 game) generally it is mostly Baldur's Gate 2 they are thinking of. Not always. There was a timeframe when the new games were not on offer, and the untapped potential of the BG1 was explored extensively by the modders. Obviously, it came at the price of sacrificing the blank slate state of it and the table-top connoisseur special appeal that attracted Sylvius, but nevertheless, it made the game more appealing to me personally than BG2. As Sylvius pointed out, BG2 did rely too heavily on the player to feel a certain way, like, yes, giving a fig about Imoen. And, at the time, Imoen's magic missile launch was about as glaringly infuriating as PeeBee's launch pod to many players. I like both games, and deeply appreciated the features that BG2 added, but soupped up BG1 was awesome. It is a separate debate if a modded game can be compared to the unmodded one, and if moddability is a factor at all when you talk about overhyped. Some people really love mods as a way to have the game your own way - and BG series allowed you to add, change or take out literally anything - and some will never install a mod in their life. The difference can be as much as if they were playing essentially a different game.
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Post by KingTony on Nov 17, 2017 15:31:20 GMT
Easily The Witcher 3. It's a good game, great, even, but it isn't the best game ever made like some people think.
Honorable mentions to the MGS series in general, Modern Warfare 2, Dark Souls and the original Battlefront 2.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 15:33:05 GMT
Fire Emblem Awakening/Fates:
Both games have awful to at best average stories (conquest/revelations) and the gameplay aside from conquest is just a chore. Awakening/birthright is full of route missions and Revelations has objectives/maps that are just awful. I certainly hope that FE Switch will have both story and gameplay improvements. The only saving grace of the current FE era is Conquest's gameplay but again it seems that in order to make the gameplay as good as they did they had to sacrifice the story.
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Post by TheHeroOfFerelden on Nov 17, 2017 16:24:29 GMT
As a person that has spent many an hour playing Mount and Blade,i had to say that skill IS needed in the game's combat.In multiplayer the skill gap between players is totally visible. You see, that's the problem, player skill should never be a factor. The only skills that matter are the skills that you add to your character, and the character should live or die by those skills alone. I do not know about never,but it makes sense for it to be a major factor in a competitive multiplayer game. It certainly doesn't make it much fun for a new player getting slaughtered again and again though...and i see your point. If we think about it a bit deeper though ,isn't a character's build and the way each player executes the various actions part of his skill?
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Post by AnDromedary on Nov 17, 2017 22:43:03 GMT
As a person that has spent many an hour playing Mount and Blade,i had to say that skill IS needed in the game's combat.In multiplayer the skill gap between players is totally visible. You see, that's the problem, player skill should never be a factor. The only skills that matter are the skills that you add to your character, and the character should live or die by those skills alone. I don't know, doesn't that just shift the player skill from an action-realm into the strategic/tactical realm? In a game like BG, player skill still determines the outcome of the battle. The player needs to apply their strategic/tactical skill in positioning the party, using the right spells/actions at the right time or even their sense as to when to avoid a battle outright. If you really wanted for player skill to have no influence, than don't give players control over the character at all and instead e.g. make the intelligence level determine how tactically solid the character/party acts in combat. Not sure if many people would like that (as it basically becomes a point & click adventure where you can semi-randomly dies from enemy encounters at times) but that seems to be what you want. Otherwise, I find the distinction between a player's skill to basically play chess with a party of characters against the players skill to determine the proper movement order of one character they control directly not very sensible.
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Post by Lorn on Nov 17, 2017 23:10:46 GMT
You see, that's the problem, player skill should never be a factor. The only skills that matter are the skills that you add to your character, and the character should live or die by those skills alone. I don't know, doesn't that just shift the player skill from an action-realm into the strategic/tactical realm? In a game like BG, player skill still determines the outcome of the battle. The player needs to apply their strategic/tactical skill in positioning the party, using the right spells/actions at the right time or even their sense as to when to avoid a battle outright. If you really wanted for player skill to have no influence, than don't give players control over the character at all and instead e.g. make the intelligence level determine how tactically solid the character/party acts in combat. Not sure if many people would like that (as it basically becomes a point & click adventure where you can semi-randomly dies from enemy encounters at times) but that seems to be what you want. Otherwise, I find the distinction between a player's skill to basically play chess with a party of characters against the players skill to determine the proper movement order of one character they control directly not very sensible. It's what Sylvius wants certainly.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 17, 2017 23:19:09 GMT
Skyrim.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 18, 2017 1:54:59 GMT
Perhaps, but he'd hate the game play for being too actiony and not dependent on your skills. As a person that has spent many an hour playing Mount and Blade,i had to say that skill IS needed in the game's combat.In multiplayer the skill gap between players is totally visible. I am undecided if Mount and Blade is overrated, or if I simply suck at its combat.
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Post by mattig89ch on Nov 18, 2017 11:35:37 GMT
As a person that has spent many an hour playing Mount and Blade,i had to say that skill IS needed in the game's combat.In multiplayer the skill gap between players is totally visible. I am undecided if Mount and Blade is overrated, or if I simply suck at its combat. For me, its just that grind that sucks. I actually think the combat is the only good thing about those games.
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Post by TheHeroOfFerelden on Nov 18, 2017 12:10:19 GMT
I am undecided if Mount and Blade is overrated, or if I simply suck at its combat. For me, its just that grind that sucks. I actually think the combat is the only good thing about those games. Yeah,it can get such a grindfest sometimes.And there's those messenger and escorting cattle quests.... Certainly a game that needs a lot of commitment. That being said you can be King/Queen of Calradia in under a year in in-game time.I took about twice that,mostly due to my Rping.
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Post by SassaMFG on Nov 18, 2017 14:47:03 GMT
The Witcher 3. Well, entire series. Kabraxal and mattig89ch already said everything I had yo say.
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Post by Hawke on Nov 18, 2017 18:35:33 GMT
The Witcher 3, NieR: Automata and Undertale (played <2 hours, though). On TW3. It does have good graphics and optimization and I admire devs' position on DRM, but every other aspect of the game is mediocre at best. On NieR: Automata. Unbalanced difficulty, poor controls (and crashes on PC), simplistic combat, story becomes very cliche after the first story arc (and those, who played NieR: Gestalt, know how Automata was bound to end). The soundtrack and the first protagonist are good. On Undertale. I found neither gameplay nor characters to be interesting enough to tolerate uncomfortable and unrebindable controls. I do know about NG+ cycles and how the game tracks player's actions, but I don't think it can be called a "Great RPG".
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Post by Beerfish on Nov 18, 2017 19:01:29 GMT
Red Dead Redemption
NWN2
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Post by bizantura on Nov 18, 2017 19:43:42 GMT
The walking dead. Don't understand it is called a game. It is a movie with interruptions.
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Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Nov 18, 2017 20:05:09 GMT
Not always. There was a timeframe when the new games were not on offer, and the untapped potential of the BG1 was explored extensively by the modders. Obviously, it came at the price of sacrificing the blank slate state of it and the table-top connoisseur special appeal that attracted Sylvius, but nevertheless, it made the game more appealing to me personally than BG2. As Sylvius pointed out, BG2 did rely too heavily on the player to feel a certain way, like, yes, giving a fig about Imoen. And, at the time, Imoen's magic missile launch was about as glaringly infuriating as PeeBee's launch pod to many players. I like both games, and deeply appreciated the features that BG2 added, but soupped up BG1 was awesome. It is a separate debate if a modded game can be compared to the unmodded one, and if moddability is a factor at all when you talk about overhyped. Some people really love mods as a way to have the game your own way - and BG series allowed you to add, change or take out literally anything - and some will never install a mod in their life. The difference can be as much as if they were playing essentially a different game. Yeah I never really got into the modding of Baldur's Gate apart from combining the 2 into one game and upgrading the resolution, personally I think when we talk about the merits of a game we should probably focus more on the actual game itself rather than the improvements and modifications the community has made to it but even so was there something about Baldur's Gate 2 that made it less moddable than the first? I imagine both would have rather similar modding capabilities? That said while it is true that caring about Imoen seems to be the primary motivator (even though you can state in dialogues your reason for going after Irenicus is either revenge or an interest in the power he claims to be able to grant you) for moving the plot along at least in the first half of the game to me this is a small concession to move the plot along in an otherwise great game and I certainly won't let something as minor as that tarnish my view of the rest of the game.
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Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Nov 18, 2017 20:12:59 GMT
As a person that has spent many an hour playing Mount and Blade,i had to say that skill IS needed in the game's combat.In multiplayer the skill gap between players is totally visible. You see, that's the problem, player skill should never be a factor. The only skills that matter are the skills that you add to your character, and the character should live or die by those skills alone. There is an argument to be made for that style of gameplay in regards to games where you play more the role of a commander than the person in the field or in a game where certain builds can open up different opportunities however for the most part I do like my games to be based more on the cognitive processes and skill of the player. Taking what you want to it's logical conclusion I would be incredibly disappointed if the game presented me with a puzzle and success was determined purely by how many points I put into my character's "problem solving" skill rather than my own ability to reason and find a solution for myself.
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Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Nov 18, 2017 20:16:46 GMT
I don't remember NWN2 being all that highly regarded, far as I remember it got rather middling reviews and a lukewarm reception, unless of course you are suggesting that it deserves an even lower rating and reception than the one it got?
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Post by aoibhealfae on Nov 20, 2017 19:00:07 GMT
Jade Empire. The most culturally insensitive and tone deaf orientalist bullshit that I was still amazed that they're created by the exact same writers of Dragon Age and Mass Effect. But no... its a cult classic, its perfect, everyone loves it, it needed to be remastered and remake... okay... this is a long rant.. Was it really too much to do some basic research on East Asia culture? You could create diverse Thedas or diverse The Old Republic but the idea of a diverse East Asia is too much? Did anyone watch wuxia shows or read literature or learn basic history? Did nobody read Romance of the Third Kingdom and that there are multiple warring states before the formation unified China, Korea and Japan? Its also a fighting game based on ancient times... why was Bruce Lee's Wing Chun is in the game? Why not include the (overrated but old as dirt) Shao Lin styles? Why is there obviously bad guy Samurai and Ninja while still belonging in one geography? If there's Japanese influence, where's the Shogunate? Why make fake Asian language in a supposedly a homogenous society where everyone should speak the same language? Why everyone speak in strange sentence structure in Engrish and consistently drop their fake accent? Why majority of the NPCs all have the exact same epicanthal folds on their eyes.. as if there's no asians with double eyelids? Is everyone related? Why most peasant spoke like they're English-born royalty? Why is everyone so obsessed about spiritualism and mumbo jumbo... why no versions of Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism... why there's no exploration of philosophy and social commentary.. instead of depending on stereotypical portrayals of Asians in Western media and overused hero's journey archetype.
Why nobody talk about how that "Jade Empire" name literally imply that its an empire filled with prostitutes. Its a French word that was a derogatory insult in English. I 'suppose' it means the milk green-ish stone, 玉 Yù, which literally just mean beautiful gem... its female ornament. Why do you think the English use that exact word for it in the first place?
Is there not even a single East Asian-descent writer in North America that they could use before they made an expensive game? Heck, I'll be happy if its just A Song of Ice and Fire series but set in Ancient China... which actually can be accurate for that setting.
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Post by masterwarderz on Nov 20, 2017 20:51:46 GMT
Hmmm let me think of one-Ah got it.
Blood-Borne big surprise right?
Another one ehhh
Earthbound
...Secrets of Mana
Hmmm
Planescape: Torment
That's all I got off the top of my head.
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Post by Kroitz on Nov 20, 2017 21:03:55 GMT
Those final fantasies, especially the one with the moody protagonist.
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