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Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Dec 5, 2017 8:53:14 GMT
Because we totally needed another thread on microtransactions and lootboxes AMIRITE GAIZ?
To be fair this isn't really about microtransactions and lootboxes but rather uses them as a stepping stone to address the far larger problem that they stem from that may well be unfixable without burning the whole industry to the ground. I am talking about the pursuit of profits above all else even when it comes at the expense of player enjoyment, if lootboxes and microtransactions have taught us anything it should be that games are no longer designed to be fun, hell today game developers seem to go out of their way to piss off their player base just to encourage them to spend more money, you can see this in battlefront where the grind was made unbearably long to unlock anything that players are forced to spend more money for a mere chance at getting the star cards they need, you can see this in destiny 2 where Activision tried to lie to their playerbase about how much experience they were receiving making the grind for bright engrams more tedious, then when they were caught they secretly doubled the amount of exp it took to earn a bright engram and lied about that too! And yet for all it takes to unlock even the most minor of rewards these games aren't particularly much fun to begin with, they are the most shallow of experiences encouraging repetitive actions on part of the player for the mere chance of reward, the digital equivalent of a slot machine but instead of the allure of rewards with actual monetary value you get useless fluff that has no value outside of anything but the game.
While I know that in order for a game and a company need to keep an eye for profit in order to succeed, however when the games you design are no longer fun to play and no longer designed to be fun then what is the bloody point? If lootboxes were banned tomorrow do you really think EA's games would actually get any better? To be honest I doubt they have any idea what a fun game actually looks like and I am sure they would just find another way to piss off their consumers and squeeze more money out of them.
Can the only way the industry be saved is if companies like EA and Activision are burned to the ground?
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Post by smilesja on Dec 5, 2017 9:05:29 GMT
Yet despite it, players still buy EA and Activision games. So they must see the game as fun.
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Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Dec 5, 2017 9:54:18 GMT
Yet despite it, players still buy EA and Activision games. So they must see the game as fun. I can only speak for myself and while I can't claim to know what is going through other peoples minds personally when I am playing a fun game I don't think "gee this game is so much fun that I am going to pay more money to skip this content I am having so much fun playing!". If you are having so much fun playing the game then surely the grind for gear isn't an issue as long as you are enjoying the ride right?
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Post by jaison1986 on Dec 5, 2017 10:21:37 GMT
Yet despite it, players still buy EA and Activision games. So they must see the game as fun. I can only speak for myself and while I can't claim to know what is going through other peoples minds personally when I am playing a fun game I don't think "gee this game is so much fun that I am going to pay more money to skip this content I am having so much fun playing!". If you are having so much fun playing the game then surely the grind for gear isn't an issue as long as you are enjoying the ride right? I think it's more about some players having little patience and too much spare money. They just want to kick ass from day one on multiplayer and some times they don't have the skill to pull it off through natural progression.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 5, 2017 12:16:33 GMT
I've begun to play more and more SP games again. And I don't need tirple A games neither - gameplay tops fancy shit.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 5, 2017 13:57:51 GMT
Let's not call out specific forum members as examples of dumb behavior. (earlier post removed)
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ApocAlypsE
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Dec 5, 2017 15:18:11 GMT
At no large business what so ever they "care" about their consumers. Hunting for whales is a business strategy, as well as appealing to the good side of the consumers. At the end of the day, all businesses care for is money. To shift a policy, one must push against bad ones with their wallet, and clearly that doesn't happen as the abominations of EA and Activision still exist. It is our responsibility to punish them because we buy their product. For myself, I'm done with EA and Bioware, I'm not going to buy any product from them anymore and the maximum that I gonna do is pirate it, and I encourage everyone here to do so to punish them for anti-consumer practices.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 5, 2017 15:28:53 GMT
Masking overall product quality with fancy graphics is likely going to turn off consumers in the meium term. Deliver enough hollow games for full price and people are gonna look for entertainment elsewhere. There's only so much marketing can do vs word of mouth and if a reputation is made for dissatisfying products that's gonna stick for a while. Luckily there is enough competition out there and in times of digital distribution there's devs who market directly and bypass the publisher without having to make concessions to excessivce monetisation demands. Not mentioning a publisher where quality is still considered a viable business strategy..
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Post by jaison1986 on Dec 5, 2017 16:24:29 GMT
Masking overall product quality with fancy graphics is likely going to turn off consumers in the meium term. Deliver enough hollow games for full price and people are gonna look for entertainment elsewhere. There's only so much marketing can do vs word of mouth and if a reputation is made for dissatisfying products that's gonna stick for a while. Luckily there is enough competition out there and in times of digital distribution there's devs who market directly and bypass the publisher without having to make concessions to excessivce monetisation demands. Not mentioning a publisher where quality is still considered a viable business strategy.. The thing is there aren't that many options in the gaming market these days. Other then AAA titles, we get the more obscure indie games and japanese titles. That's hardly enough to keep the market alive if the block buster developers crumble.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 5, 2017 17:05:44 GMT
At no large business what so ever they "care" about their consumers. Hunting for whales is a business strategy, as well as appealing to the good side of the consumers. At the end of the day, all businesses care for is money. To shift a policy, one must push against bad ones with their wallet, and clearly that doesn't happen as the abominations of EA and Activision still exist. It is our responsibility to punish them because we buy their product. For myself, I'm done with EA and Bioware, I'm not going to buy any product from them anymore and the maximum that I gonna do is pirate it, and I encourage everyone here to do so to punish them for anti-consumer practices. I don’t think we should pirate games.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 5, 2017 17:07:16 GMT
Masking overall product quality with fancy graphics is likely going to turn off consumers in the meium term. Deliver enough hollow games for full price and people are gonna look for entertainment elsewhere. There's only so much marketing can do vs word of mouth and if a reputation is made for dissatisfying products that's gonna stick for a while. Luckily there is enough competition out there and in times of digital distribution there's devs who market directly and bypass the publisher without having to make concessions to excessivce monetisation demands. Not mentioning a publisher where quality is still considered a viable business strategy.. The thing is there aren't that many options in the gaming market these days. Other then AAA titles, we get the more obscure indie games and japanese titles. That's hardly enough to keep the market alive if the block buster developers crumble. There is enough material to choose from on Steam for me. Not obscure at all. It's rather overwhelming actually.
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Post by jaison1986 on Dec 5, 2017 17:09:26 GMT
The thing is there aren't that many options in the gaming market these days. Other then AAA titles, we get the more obscure indie games and japanese titles. That's hardly enough to keep the market alive if the block buster developers crumble. There is enough material to choose from on Steam for me. Not obscure at all. It's rather overwhelming actually. Such as?
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 5, 2017 17:13:57 GMT
At no large business what so ever they "care" about their consumers. Hunting for whales is a business strategy, as well as appealing to the good side of the consumers. At the end of the day, all businesses care for is money. To shift a policy, one must push against bad ones with their wallet, and clearly that doesn't happen as the abominations of EA and Activision still exist. It is our responsibility to punish them because we buy their product. For myself, I'm done with EA and Bioware, I'm not going to buy any product from them anymore and the maximum that I gonna do is pirate it, and I encourage everyone here to do so to punish them for anti-consumer practices. I don’t think we should pirate games. I agree. Piracy is simply theft and confers no moral superiority in the interests of some desire to hurt a company. But that's just my personal opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2017 17:24:45 GMT
There is enough material to choose from on Steam for me. Not obscure at all. It's rather overwhelming actually. Such as? Frankly, I am overwhelmed atm as well, but I do not play many games. Some smaller games I was not able to play due to my sensitivity to graphics, some bigger games are not quite what I want, but still fun. Overall, it pays to snoop around, I find.
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Post by jaison1986 on Dec 5, 2017 17:24:57 GMT
I don’t think we should pirate games. I agree. Piracy is simply theft and confers no moral superiority in the interests of some desire to hurt a company. But that's just my personal opinion. In a country were the prices are fair that is...
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Post by o Ventus on Dec 5, 2017 17:37:32 GMT
Yet despite it, players still buy EA and Activision games. So they must see the game as fun. EA and Activision do publish good games, they're just mired by terrible business models. Battlefront 2 actually isn't a bad game, for example, the microtransactions are just exploitative and invasive and are so heavyhanded that they make the rest of the game suffer by association. Which is a shame because EABattlefront 2 is probably the second-best Battlefront game (behind Pandemic Battlefront 2 back from 2005) in terms of actual gameplay quality, disassociated with the awful microtransactions.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 5, 2017 17:59:30 GMT
I agree. Piracy is simply theft and confers no moral superiority in the interests of some desire to hurt a company. But that's just my personal opinion. In a country were the prices are fair that is... I think there are limited specific cases in some global territories where prices are predatory, that such a case could be made, but as a principle, we're on shaky ground. That something is expensive doesn't justify theft. Depends on which country you were thinking of.
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Post by jaison1986 on Dec 5, 2017 18:04:35 GMT
In a country were the prices are fair that is... I think there are limited specific cases in some global territories where prices are predatory, that such a case could be made, but as a principle, we're on shaky ground. That something is expensive doesn't justify theft. Depends on which country you were thinking of. In Brazil triple A games usually cost 230 bucks on console during launch. A good promotion is usually R$ 75,00 or something. The only reason there isn't much piracy is because consoles are too hard to crack. But if people could pirate them, I wouldn't blame them.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 5, 2017 18:50:11 GMT
There is enough material to choose from on Steam for me. Not obscure at all. It's rather overwhelming actually. Such as? Have a look for yourself?
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 5, 2017 18:54:10 GMT
I think there are limited specific cases in some global territories where prices are predatory, that such a case could be made, but as a principle, we're on shaky ground. That something is expensive doesn't justify theft. Depends on which country you were thinking of. In Brazil triple A games usually cost 230 bucks on console during launch. A good promotion is usually R$ 75,00 or something. The only reason there isn't much piracy is because consoles are too hard to crack. But if people could pirate them, I wouldn't blame them. Yes, in all honesty, Brazil is an example of a country where I would have more sympathy. US/Europe, countries with similar economies, not so much.
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Post by jaison1986 on Dec 5, 2017 19:02:41 GMT
Have a look for yourself? I've seen it. Mostly low key fps games and plataform titles that appeal to nostalgia. So I'm not sure what you are on about exactly.
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Post by CHRrOME on Dec 5, 2017 22:42:40 GMT
In Brazil triple A games usually cost 230 bucks on console during launch. A good promotion is usually R$ 75,00 or something. The only reason there isn't much piracy is because consoles are too hard to crack. But if people could pirate them, I wouldn't blame them. Yes, in all honesty, Brazil is an example of a country where I would have more sympathy. US/Europe, countries with similar economies, not so much. Heh, you guys in Brazil have it easy. Here in Argentina a single triple A game as to date is costing around 1000$ ARS. Let that sink for a moment. A fucking thousand bucks. Of course, translate that into US dollars and it probably is around 62-65 give or take, not that different. And that's only because these fuckers decided to get rid to the "tax for buying games" otherwise it'd be worse. But it still doesn't make it much more easier. I paid back in the day 200 ARS for Battlefield 3. BF4 costed me 600 ARS. Andromeda costed me I believe 870 ARS. And it goes up and up. On top of that add how much it costs to build a PC or buy a console, and you're are going to have a hard time prioritizing. So whenever people in Canada complain that they pay 80 Canadian Dollars for a game, or Australians pay 120? , I just smile.
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Post by linksocarina on Dec 5, 2017 23:11:56 GMT
Have a look for yourself? As sea of mediocrity is not really a convincing argument. Then again it closely resembles what we had in the late 80s and early 90s, so I guess it's sort of par for the course for gaming history.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 6, 2017 0:25:02 GMT
Have a look for yourself? I've seen it. Mostly low key fps games and plataform titles that appeal to nostalgia. So I'm not sure what you are on about exactly. You haven't looked properly then.
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Post by jaison1986 on Dec 6, 2017 1:08:43 GMT
I've seen it. Mostly low key fps games and plataform titles that appeal to nostalgia. So I'm not sure what you are on about exactly. You haven't looked properly then. And you have no real response.
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