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Post by o Ventus on Dec 6, 2017 1:11:28 GMT
Have a look for yourself? I've seen it. Mostly low key fps games and plataform titles that appeal to nostalgia. So I'm not sure what you are on about exactly. For real. 90% of Steam's catalogue is either Le Retraux 8-bit Chiptune Indie Platformer #2216575: Not An Original Bone In Our Body, or Asset Thievery Store-Bought Unity Survival Crafting: The Revengening (Now With More Stolen Assets!). Sturgeon's Law is real.
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Post by aoibhealfae on Dec 6, 2017 5:04:44 GMT
I'm so annoyed how Skylanders are filled with lootcrates. As if its not enough you have to purchase individual characters separately. Its clearly lootcrate marketed to kids like those stupid kinder eggs and blind packs.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Dec 6, 2017 8:20:16 GMT
At no large business what so ever they "care" about their consumers. Hunting for whales is a business strategy, as well as appealing to the good side of the consumers. At the end of the day, all businesses care for is money. To shift a policy, one must push against bad ones with their wallet, and clearly that doesn't happen as the abominations of EA and Activision still exist. It is our responsibility to punish them because we buy their product. For myself, I'm done with EA and Bioware, I'm not going to buy any product from them anymore and the maximum that I gonna do is pirate it, and I encourage everyone here to do so to punish them for anti-consumer practices. I don’t think we should pirate games. I mean I don't encourage you to pirate, but to boycott anything that comes out of EA. And I don't care about moral acquiring high ground, moreover, I see it as a weakness. Thats the biggest problem in my country's army, but that is an another topic that I don't wish to get into.
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Post by Pearl on Dec 6, 2017 8:54:10 GMT
Invasive monetization schemes are here to stay. If all forms of lootboxes were outlawed overnight, alternatives would emerge, and we would be back to square one. Now that developers and publishers have tasted the proverbial blood in the water (and swallowed so much of it that they're on the verge of kidney failure), gaming will never be "saved" in the way you hope it to be unless the industry as a whole collapses for a second time.
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Post by river82 on Dec 6, 2017 9:03:52 GMT
I don’t think we should pirate games. I mean I don't encourage you to pirate, but to boycott anything that comes out of EA. And I don't care about moral acquiring high ground, moreover, I see it as a weakness. Thats the biggest problem in my country's army, but that is an another topic that I don't wish to get into. Eh, crusades against video game companies (and similar) are a province of the young, imo. These days I just want to go home and play games and not have to worry about whether I'm supporting Beelzabub and all his little minions by doing so
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 6, 2017 9:30:20 GMT
I've seen it. Mostly low key fps games and plataform titles that appeal to nostalgia. So I'm not sure what you are on about exactly. For real. 90% of Steam's catalogue is either Le Retraux 8-bit Chiptune Indie Platformer #2216575: Not An Original Bone In Our Body, or Asset Thievery Store-Bought Unity Survival Crafting: The Revengening (Now With More Stolen Assets!). Sturgeon's Law is real. Steam's problems with the flood of cheap trash is its very own problem. Doesn't change the fact that there is games with interesting gameplay out there. And should Steam drown in its flood of asset flips and meme games I'm confident there'll be another digital platform selling with higher quality standards some day.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Dec 6, 2017 9:38:18 GMT
I mean I don't encourage you to pirate, but to boycott anything that comes out of EA. And I don't care about moral acquiring high ground, moreover, I see it as a weakness. Thats the biggest problem in my country's army, but that is an another topic that I don't wish to get into. Eh, crusades against video game companies (and similar) are a province of the young, imo. These days I just want to go home and play games and not have to worry about whether I'm supporting Beelzabub and all his little minions by doing so I understand this point of view, but think about this way: do you want to relax for an hour and have a good time, or have a bad time just because you didn't want to pay an additional fee to have a good time? Young or not, you must stand against being spoonfed with shit. I don't care about the Mark Vermeer, Bioware SJW allegation and what not, this behind the scenes doesn't interest me. What I do care is the quality of the product I'm getting, and if the quality is shit, we must push vs it using our wallet. And if the quality is consistently shit because the company doesn't care about it for various reasons, it needs to be shut down. It's true for video games, and its true for every other product in this world. BTW if you buy, play, and enjoy The Witcher 3 you are supporting Beelzabub and his Polish overworked minions, but w/e I don't care about them.
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Post by o Ventus on Dec 6, 2017 13:36:47 GMT
For real. 90% of Steam's catalogue is either Le Retraux 8-bit Chiptune Indie Platformer #2216575: Not An Original Bone In Our Body, or Asset Thievery Store-Bought Unity Survival Crafting: The Revengening (Now With More Stolen Assets!). Sturgeon's Law is real. Steam's problems with the flood of cheap trash is its very own problem. Doesn't change the fact that there is games with interesting gameplay out there. And should Steam drown in its flood of asset flips and meme games I'm confident there'll be another digital platform selling with higher quality standards some day. 10% of Steam's catalogue being good doesn't change the fact that the other 90% is worthless trash.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 6, 2017 13:59:35 GMT
Steam's problems with the flood of cheap trash is its very own problem. Doesn't change the fact that there is games with interesting gameplay out there. And should Steam drown in its flood of asset flips and meme games I'm confident there'll be another digital platform selling with higher quality standards some day. 10% of Steam's catalogue being good doesn't change the fact that the other 90% is worthless trash. Steam's shitbase wasn't the point. The point is that alternatives to tirple A crap exist.
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Post by o Ventus on Dec 6, 2017 16:06:34 GMT
10% of Steam's catalogue being good doesn't change the fact that the other 90% is worthless trash. Steam's shitbase wasn't the point. The point is that alternatives to tirple A crap exist. Sure. A bunch of worthless trash. Good indie games are few and far between.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 6, 2017 16:25:16 GMT
Steam's shitbase wasn't the point. The point is that alternatives to tirple A crap exist. Sure. A bunch of worthless trash. Good indie games are few and far between. What's your point, then?
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Post by o Ventus on Dec 6, 2017 18:10:46 GMT
Sure. A bunch of worthless trash. Good indie games are few and far between. What's your point, then? That 90% of Steam's catalogue is trash, and frankly, your claim of the amount of high-quality content on Steam being "overwhelming" is laughable to me. Coming from someone with several thousand dollars of Steam games in the library. A lot of it is crap, which is par for the course with Steam being largely unmoderated and anyone being able to put any asset-flipping card-farm "game" on the store. It's not as if Steam is flooded with all of the best games in the world. If anything, some of the best games I've played in the last few years are either multiplatform, or console-exclusive.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 7, 2017 0:58:53 GMT
That 90% of Steam's catalogue is trash, and frankly, your claim of the amount of high-quality content on Steam being "overwhelming" is laughable to me. Coming from someone with several thousand dollars of Steam games in the library. A lot of it is crap, which is par for the course with Steam being largely unmoderated and anyone being able to put any asset-flipping card-farm "game" on the store. It's not as if Steam is flooded with all of the best games in the world. If anything, some of the best games I've played in the last few years are either multiplatform, or console-exclusive. I said nothing like that.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Dec 7, 2017 1:32:59 GMT
Oh goodie. Another thread where opinion and personal preference are presented as fact.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 7, 2017 1:33:38 GMT
Yet despite it, players still buy EA and Activision games. So they must see the game as fun. It's not that games now suddenly suck. It's that they are being structured to accommodate crappy business models. Haven't you ever thought, "This game would be so much better without <insert crappy money-grab>"? If you haven't, you will at some point. At present, even the type of games being grenlighted is dictated by potential monetization. It's not good. They need to find reliable, but more consumer friendly ways to make their money. Yet despite it, players still buy EA and Activision games. So they must see the game as fun. EA and Activision do publish good games, they're just mired by terrible business models. Battlefront 2 actually isn't a bad game, for example, the microtransactions are just exploitative and invasive and are so heavyhanded that they make the rest of the game suffer by association. Which is a shame because EABattlefront 2 is probably the second-best Battlefront game (behind Pandemic Battlefront 2 back from 2005) in terms of actual gameplay quality, disassociated with the awful microtransactions. Exactly. I've not played BF2, but this is my point. Even good games would be better without the shady money-grabs.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Dec 7, 2017 2:06:31 GMT
The fact matter is that while there is currently a lot of public outcry over lootboxes people are still buying them. A lot of people.
There's a reason why governments are considering them to be a form gambling and that's because there are people who spend literally tens of thousands of dollars on them. AAA companies like EA and Activision are perfectly fine with exploiting those people's mental disorders and doing so makes a whole lot of money.
So, no. I don't think loot boxes are going away until either several AAA games completely flounder because they have lootboxes, negating the revenue made by exploiting the video game crack addicts out there, or governments finally classify lootboxes as gambling.
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Post by o Ventus on Dec 7, 2017 2:33:22 GMT
The fact matter is that while there is currently a lot of public outcry over lootboxes people are still buying them. A lot of people. There's a reason why governments are considering them to be a form gambling and that's because there are people who spend literally tens of thousands of dollars on them. AAA companies like EA and Activision are perfectly fine with exploiting those people's mental disorders and doing so makes a whole lot of money. So, no. I don't think loot boxes are going away until either several AAA games completely flounder because they have lootboxes, negating the revenue made by exploiting the video game crack addicts out there, or governments finally classify lootboxes as gambling. Not that many people compared to the total number of people buying the games. Almost all high-profile microtransaction business models are sustained by small numbers of whales. That is, smaller quantities of people who spend vastly larger amounts of money. 1 person spending $100 is more valuable than 3 people all spending $20, after all. @bold: if this happens, the loot boxes won't go away, the games will go away. A company like EA isn't going to remove their lootboxes just because some government is making them pay a fine for it, they'd sooner just stop selling in that market.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Dec 7, 2017 2:50:24 GMT
The fact matter is that while there is currently a lot of public outcry over lootboxes people are still buying them. A lot of people. There's a reason why governments are considering them to be a form gambling and that's because there are people who spend literally tens of thousands of dollars on them. AAA companies like EA and Activision are perfectly fine with exploiting those people's mental disorders and doing so makes a whole lot of money. So, no. I don't think loot boxes are going away until either several AAA games completely flounder because they have lootboxes, negating the revenue made by exploiting the video game crack addicts out there, or governments finally classify lootboxes as gambling. Not that many people compared to the total number of people buying the games. Almost all high-profile microtransaction business models are sustained by small numbers of whales. That is, smaller quantities of people who spend vastly larger amounts of money. 1 person spending $100 is more valuable than 3 people all spending $20, after all. @bold: if this happens, the loot boxes won't go away, the games will go away. A company like EA isn't going to remove their lootboxes just because some government is making them pay a fine for it, they'd sooner just stop selling in that market. Really? EA will abandon the gaming market if they get fined for including lootboxes. I really don't know about. EA being financially ruined if they don't have microtransactions in their games seems rather fishy to me.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Dec 7, 2017 2:50:34 GMT
The fact matter is that while there is currently a lot of public outcry over lootboxes people are still buying them. A lot of people. There's a reason why governments are considering them to be a form gambling and that's because there are people who spend literally tens of thousands of dollars on them. AAA companies like EA and Activision are perfectly fine with exploiting those people's mental disorders and doing so makes a whole lot of money. So, no. I don't think loot boxes are going away until either several AAA games completely flounder because they have lootboxes, negating the revenue made by exploiting the video game crack addicts out there, or governments finally classify lootboxes as gambling. Not that many people compared to the total number of people buying the games. Almost all high-profile microtransaction business models are sustained by small numbers of whales. That is, smaller quantities of people who spend vastly larger amounts of money. 1 person spending $100 is more valuable than 3 people all spending $20, after all. @bold: if this happens, the loot boxes won't go away, the games will go away. A company like EA isn't going to remove their lootboxes just because some government is making them pay a fine for it, they'd sooner just stop selling in that market. Lol. Kinda depends on the government, right?
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Post by o Ventus on Dec 7, 2017 22:36:42 GMT
Not that many people compared to the total number of people buying the games. Almost all high-profile microtransaction business models are sustained by small numbers of whales. That is, smaller quantities of people who spend vastly larger amounts of money. 1 person spending $100 is more valuable than 3 people all spending $20, after all. @bold: if this happens, the loot boxes won't go away, the games will go away. A company like EA isn't going to remove their lootboxes just because some government is making them pay a fine for it, they'd sooner just stop selling in that market. Really? EA will abandon the gaming market if they get fined for including lootboxes. I really don't know about. EA being financially ruined if they don't have microtransactions in their games seems rather fishy to me. I didn't say that they'd be financially ruined, they'll just stop selling in whatever market requires them to have their lootbox permit, if it doesn't bring them enough in returns. Most likely the only market that they's stay in despite any potential fines or permits will be the United States, sue to the sheer size of the US market plus that being EA's home market.
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 7, 2017 22:47:57 GMT
Really? EA will abandon the gaming market if they get fined for including lootboxes. I really don't know about. EA being financially ruined if they don't have microtransactions in their games seems rather fishy to me. I didn't say that they'd be financially ruined, they'll just stop selling in whatever market requires them to have their lootbox permit, if it doesn't bring them enough in returns. Most likely the only market that they's stay in despite any potential fines or permits will be the United States, sue to the sheer size of the US market plus that being EA's home market. Or, they change to a different microtransactions model, at least for those regions. And remember, this isn’t just about permits and fines. If that Hawaiian legislator’s move to have the sale of such games to children banned gained traction elsewhere, we’d see EA losing a massive demographic to their games.
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Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Dec 7, 2017 23:14:30 GMT
I didn't say that they'd be financially ruined, they'll just stop selling in whatever market requires them to have their lootbox permit, if it doesn't bring them enough in returns. Most likely the only market that they's stay in despite any potential fines or permits will be the United States, sue to the sheer size of the US market plus that being EA's home market. Or, they change to a different microtransactions model, at least for those regions. And remember, this isn’t just about permits and fines. If that Hawaiian legislator’s move to have the sale of such games to children banned gained traction elsewhere, we’d see EA losing a massive demographic to their games. If lootboxes and microtransactions in video games required a permit then I am sure EA would just get the permit, pretty sure the money they make off lootboxes would well offset any costs accrued by the permit. As for banning the sale of such games to children I am not sure how the law works in the states regarding how old you need to be to get a credit card or something that can be used like a credit card or how old you need to be to buy an M rated game, I would assume there would be some sort of fine in place for selling mature rated games to underage kids however I am pretty sure EA knows that most kids aren't going to buy the game themselves and there are plenty of parents who wont think twice before bringing home the next murder or gambling simulator for little jimmy to play with, remember those "Your Mom hates Dead Space 2" ads? Pretty sure they weren't aimed at anyone over the age of 18.
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 7, 2017 23:20:58 GMT
Or, they change to a different microtransactions model, at least for those regions. And remember, this isn’t just about permits and fines. If that Hawaiian legislator’s move to have the sale of such games to children banned gained traction elsewhere, we’d see EA losing a massive demographic to their games. If lootboxes and microtransactions in video games required a permit then I am sure EA would just get the permit, pretty sure the money they make off lootboxes would well offset any costs accrued by the permit. As for banning the sale of such games to children I am not sure how the law works in the states regarding how old you need to be to get a credit card or something that can be used like a credit card or how old you need to be to buy an M rated game, I would assume there would be some sort of fine in place for selling mature rated games to underage kids however I am pretty sure EA knows that most kids aren't going to buy the game themselves and there are plenty of parents who wont think twice before bringing home the next murder or gambling simulator for little jimmy to play with, remember those "Your Mom hates Dead Space 2" ads? Pretty sure they weren't aimed at anyone over the age of 18. The difference between a game having an M rating and a game having an Ao (Adults only) rating is huge. The latter is what a loot box game would have to have if they were classified as gambling. Many retailers will refuse to even carry games with such a rating. I presume they would do the same if the sale of those games was banned to those under 18. Publishers make a point to avoid that type of content for precisely this reason.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 8, 2017 2:46:03 GMT
The fact matter is that while there is currently a lot of public outcry over lootboxes people are still buying them. A lot of people. There's a reason why governments are considering them to be a form gambling and that's because there are people who spend literally tens of thousands of dollars on them. AAA companies like EA and Activision are perfectly fine with exploiting those people's mental disorders and doing so makes a whole lot of money. So, no. I don't think loot boxes are going away until either several AAA games completely flounder because they have lootboxes, negating the revenue made by exploiting the video game crack addicts out there, or governments finally classify lootboxes as gambling. Not that many people compared to the total number of people buying the games. Almost all high-profile microtransaction business models are sustained by small numbers of whales. That is, smaller quantities of people who spend vastly larger amounts of money. 1 person spending $100 is more valuable than 3 people all spending $20, after all. Whales (people who spend over 1000$ a year) are just a section of people sustaining games with mtx - most are heavy payers (over 100$ a year) and medium payers (1-99$ a year). And it's heavy and medium payers segment that keeps growing, not the whale one. This has been researched. These systems are made to be tweaked on demand. Games, especially designed as currently trendy 'service' logically have to be flexible enough to withstand long periods of changing and adding content. They'll sooner figure something out and make changes rather than stop selling stuff, as evidenced with them switching mtx and trying to find a way to turn things around with a mere whiff of threat of their access to markets being endangered.
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Post by o Ventus on Dec 8, 2017 17:51:29 GMT
Not that many people compared to the total number of people buying the games. Almost all high-profile microtransaction business models are sustained by small numbers of whales. That is, smaller quantities of people who spend vastly larger amounts of money. 1 person spending $100 is more valuable than 3 people all spending $20, after all. Whales (people who spend over 1000$ a year) are just a section of people sustaining games with mtx - most are heavy payers (over 100$ a year) and medium payers (1-99$ a year). And it's heavy and medium payers segment that keeps growing, not the whale one. This has been researched. These systems are made to be tweaked on demand. Games, especially designed as currently trendy 'service' logically have to be flexible enough to withstand long periods of changing and adding content. They'll sooner figure something out and make changes rather than stop selling stuff, as evidenced with them switching mtx and trying to find a way to turn things around with a mere whiff of threat of their access to markets being endangered. EA didn't backpeddle on their microtransactions because of any potential legislation, they did it because of Disney.
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