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o Ventus
Weeaboobs
2,697
August 2016
oventus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by o Ventus on Dec 19, 2017 20:19:51 GMT
Well, apparently the guy from Hawaii wants to put out a bill to ban possible gambling, loot boxes, microtransactions and the likes. This is no longer about just Star Wars, so I guess it fits this thread (??) I never knew a politician who actually gives a fuck about the people. Color me massively surprised. Absolutely the fuck not. As disgusting as system's like Battlefront 2's are, it's not the government's place to tell developers and publishers how they're allowed to make their games. Especially since Chris Lee doesn't make it clear whether he's only targeting pay-to-win lootboxes or lootboxes as a whole. I feel that this distinction is important because Chris himself actually makes it in the video, but when he talks about his proposal, he doesn't mention it at all. Why should a game like Overwatch, whose lootboxes contain only cosmetic items and have no tangible effect on the player experience, be restricted in the same way as Battlefront 2, whose lootboxes outright bar people's progression and advancement? Furthermore, as Yong points out toward the end, if this bill passes and games get "gambling" disclaimers applied to their ratings, that's just going to bump them up to AO ratings, so no retailers are actually going to sell these games to protect their reputations. As weasely as big publishers are and as happy as they are to exploit loopholes, they have a very valid point when they say that lootboxes are voluntary. Nobody is forcing you to pay for lootboxes, and they're not required to play the game. This entire idea just sounds like punishing someone because someone ELSE can't control themselves. That's like going to a card shop and buying $1000 in MTG booster packs for 1 specific card, and then when you don't get that card you propose a law stating that only people 21 and up can play card games, since essentially all card games utilize this same booster pack business model. That's fucking retarded.
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Post by CHRrOME on Dec 19, 2017 22:16:52 GMT
Why should a game like Overwatch, whose lootboxes contain only cosmetic items and have no tangible effect on the player experience, be restricted in the same way as Battlefront 2, whose lootboxes outright bar people's progression and advancement? This entire idea just sounds like punishing someone because someone ELSE can't control themselves. That's like going to a card shop and buying $1000 in MTG booster packs for 1 specific card, and then when you don't get that card you propose a law stating that only people 21 and up can play card games, since essentially all card games utilize this same booster pack business model. That's fucking retarded. Maybe because for some people cosmetic is actually as important? because is part of the game? That's why so much people spend quite a penny in Warframe and PoE (to name 2) to buy everything they can to look different to the rest? Well, if you're an addict or a potential addict, you don't have much of a choice. And there's genuinely people addicted to this practice and that's why they spent they rent and the likes buying stuff in games. I respect your opinion, however, that you are okay with the system, it doesn't make it right.
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oventus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by o Ventus on Dec 20, 2017 0:32:15 GMT
Why should a game like Overwatch, whose lootboxes contain only cosmetic items and have no tangible effect on the player experience, be restricted in the same way as Battlefront 2, whose lootboxes outright bar people's progression and advancement? This entire idea just sounds like punishing someone because someone ELSE can't control themselves. That's like going to a card shop and buying $1000 in MTG booster packs for 1 specific card, and then when you don't get that card you propose a law stating that only people 21 and up can play card games, since essentially all card games utilize this same booster pack business model. That's fucking retarded. Maybe because for some people cosmetic is actually as important? because is part of the game? That's why so much people spend quite a penny in Warframe and PoE (to name 2) to buy everything they can to look different to the rest? Well, if you're an addict or a potential addict, you don't have much of a choice. And there's genuinely people addicted to this practice and that's why they spent they rent and the likes buying stuff in games. I respect your opinion, however, that you are okay with the system, it doesn't make it right. "Cosmetic is actually as important" Okay, so that just ties into my "punishing someone for someone ELSE'S lack of self control" point. If someone pays 60 dollars for Overwatch and expects a dress up simulator, that's on them and is *not* what's advertised. "You don't have much of a choice" What a non-sequitur. You absolutely DO have a choice. Nobody is born addicted to something. You don't see prescription drugs being banned because some people are methheads, that would be fucking retarded. Quite literally anything can be an addiction, from gambling to gaming to drugs to eating to *sleeping*. If you were a game dev or a publisher, why should you take the fall for someone else's problems? Someone else's lack of self control isn't your problem, that's for THEM to work out. I don't have sympathy for addicts anyway, their problems are entirely self-fulfilling and can literally be quelled by just stopping whatever they're doing, yet they're so incapable of independent thought and action that they need to be treated like children who just don't know any better. I'm not "okay with the system". It's be really cool if you and other people who respond to me didn't pretend to comprehend what I think, like you're some kind of fucking mind reading wizard. I just don't think that loot boxes, assuming they're more like Overwatch's business model and not Battlefront's, are the next great big boogeyman, and that trying to get the government involved is a fucking terrible idea. I don't know about you, but I actually like to play games. What I don't like is games no longer being available for me to buy due to a potential AO rating because some fucking loser with ADD can't stop himself from spending money. This is like the world's most retarded rendition of "you behaved badly now the whole class is getting punished", like shitty teachers would do in school. That didn't make the bad kids behave better, that just made everyone else hate the bad kids while the bad kids went on continuing to be garbage.
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In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Dec 20, 2017 0:51:12 GMT
Okay, so that just ties into my "punishing someone for someone ELSE'S lack of self control" point. If someone pays 60 dollars for Overwatch and expects a dress up simulator, that's on them and is *not* what's advertised. "You don't have much of a choice" What a non-sequitur. You absolutely DO have a choice. Nobody is born addicted to something. You don't see prescription drugs being banned because some people are methheads, that would be fucking retarded. Quite literally anything can be an addiction, from gambling to gaming to drugs to eating to *sleeping*. If you were a game dev or a publisher, why should you take the fall for someone else's problems? Someone else's lack of self control isn't your problem, that's for THEM to work out. I don't have sympathy for addicts anyway, their problems are entirely self-fulfilling and can literally be quelled by just stopping whatever they're doing, yet they're so incapable of independent thought and action that they need to be treated like children who just don't know any better. I'm not "okay with the system". It's be really cool if you and other people who respond to me didn't pretend to comprehend what I think, like you're some kind of fucking mind reading wizard. I just don't think that loot boxes, assuming they're more like Overwatch's business model and not Battlefront's, are the next great big boogeyman, and that trying to get the government involved is a fucking terrible idea. I don't know about you, but I actually like to play games. What I don't like is games no longer being available for me to buy due to a potential AO rating because some fucking loser with ADD can't stop himself from spending money. This is like the world's most retarded rendition of "you behaved badly now the whole class is getting punished", like shitty teachers would do in school. That didn't make the bad kids behave better, that just made everyone else hate the bad kids while the bad kids went on continuing to be garbage. Ok, so you are infallible, more intelligent, and have no weaknesses. That is fantastic, and I am honored to post in your direction. With your infallibility, you ought to recognize that you yourself are an extreme minority. You may find this surprising, unless you are also omniscient in your infallibility, but most people are actually pretty weak, have lots of distractions, and are not geniuses by any stretch. I don't love it that I am surrounded by idiots on a daily basis either. However, I have come to grips with the reality that this is just a fact of life. As smarty smart as I do consider myself, I make bad decisions all the time and some of them have been made in moments of weakness. Not being a total weakling, I have managed to conquer most of my vices. Your standard and expectations of others is a great source of misery for you. Accept it, and perhaps you will start to have a single reasonable expectation of society. As it stands, you are a Randtard.
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Post by CHRrOME on Dec 20, 2017 3:36:14 GMT
"Cosmetic is actually as important" 1) Okay, so that just ties into my "punishing someone for someone ELSE'S lack of self control" point. If someone pays 60 dollars for Overwatch and expects a dress up simulator, that's on them and is *not* what's advertised. "You don't have much of a choice" 2) What a non-sequitur. You absolutely DO have a choice. Nobody is born addicted to something. You don't see prescription drugs being banned because some people are methheads, that would be fucking retarded. Quite literally anything can be an addiction, from gambling to gaming to drugs to eating to *sleeping*. If you were a game dev or a publisher, why should you take the fall for someone else's problems? Someone else's lack of self control isn't your problem, that's for THEM to work out. I don't have sympathy for addicts anyway, their problems are entirely self-fulfilling and can literally be quelled by just stopping whatever they're doing, yet they're so incapable of independent thought and action that they need to be treated like children who just don't know any better. 3) I'm not "okay with the system". It's be really cool if you and other people who respond to me didn't pretend to comprehend what I think, like you're some kind of fucking mind reading wizard. I just don't think that loot boxes, assuming they're more like Overwatch's business model and not Battlefront's, are the next great big boogeyman, and that trying to get the government involved is a fucking terrible idea. I don't know about you, but I actually like to play games. What I don't like is games no longer being available for me to buy due to a potential AO rating because some fucking loser with ADD can't stop himself from spending money. This is like the world's most retarded rendition of "you behaved badly now the whole class is getting punished", like shitty teachers would do in school. That didn't make the bad kids behave better, that just made everyone else hate the bad kids while the bad kids went on continuing to be garbage. 1) I didn't mean that. If the game has cosmetics of any type locked behind a paywall, that's still a pretty big deal for some people. I think actual gameplay and other elements of the game are more important than cosmetics, and that's my personal take, but it's just picking what's more important when everything is part of the game to begin with. And obviously for other people how your character look is super important, if not the most important thing. A hell of a lot of people don't pick armor in MMOs because it provides protection, often times they pick them because of how "cool" they look. Looks is their primary goal. Cosmetics can be just as bad. 2) Sorry, I just disagree. Although part of what you said makes sense to me, devs are actually implementing loot boxes because they know people may get insane and go on a buy rampage, or simply spend hundreds if not thousands in loot boxes through the course of the game's life span. It happens all the time, CS GO has like god knows how many on-line gambling sites to sell skins and what not, that's how fucking crazy people can get. And folks may get their addiction through those games, it actually happened already. All those loot box sells make devs tons of money, otherwise they wouldn't bother implementing them in the first place. The primary goal is to get people into spending a lot of money in what it seems to be a harmless way because it's 5 bucks here, 5 there, another 5 tomorrow... and on and on it goes. 3) I just assumed you were okay since you seem to be defending it, but fair enough. Government getting involved? yeah that's what happens sometimes when you cross the line, it's not ideal, but it seems to be the only way these greedy ass companies would listen. And for the record, I don't think companies implement loot boxes because they think it's a fun or cool mechanic for the consumer, many people agree the system doesn't even make sense in most games, companies implement them because it brings lots of money as I've already said above.
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Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Dec 20, 2017 4:03:58 GMT
Well, apparently the guy from Hawaii wants to put out a bill to ban possible gambling, loot boxes, microtransactions and the likes. This is no longer about just Star Wars, so I guess it fits this thread (??) I never knew a politician who actually gives a fuck about the people. Color me massively surprised. Absolutely the fuck not. As disgusting as system's like Battlefront 2's are, it's not the government's place to tell developers and publishers how they're allowed to make their games. Especially since Chris Lee doesn't make it clear whether he's only targeting pay-to-win lootboxes or lootboxes as a whole. I feel that this distinction is important because Chris himself actually makes it in the video, but when he talks about his proposal, he doesn't mention it at all. Why should a game like Overwatch, whose lootboxes contain only cosmetic items and have no tangible effect on the player experience, be restricted in the same way as Battlefront 2, whose lootboxes outright bar people's progression and advancement? Furthermore, as Yong points out toward the end, if this bill passes and games get "gambling" disclaimers applied to their ratings, that's just going to bump them up to AO ratings, so no retailers are actually going to sell these games to protect their reputations. As weasely as big publishers are and as happy as they are to exploit loopholes, they have a very valid point when they say that lootboxes are voluntary. Nobody is forcing you to pay for lootboxes, and they're not required to play the game. This entire idea just sounds like punishing someone because someone ELSE can't control themselves. That's like going to a card shop and buying $1000 in MTG booster packs for 1 specific card, and then when you don't get that card you propose a law stating that only people 21 and up can play card games, since essentially all card games utilize this same booster pack business model. That's fucking retarded. Personally I would consider the lootboxes in Overwatch the same as those in Battlefront 2, sure the cosmetics in Overwatch don't give a tangible advantage in gameplay however they are still a commodity people want and are willing to gamble for and they should fall under the same legislation if there is to be legislation surrounding lootboxes and microtransactions. As for being punished because other people can't control themselves we are already being punished. The whales that buy into this crap are the very reason these systems exist, if nobody bought lootboxes and microtransactions or the games that go out of their way to include predatory monetization schemes then these systems would not be profitable and publishers would be less keen to pursue them, however because there are a few people willing to spend thousands on microtransactions and lootboxes publishers will strip any semblance of fun or enjoyment from their games in order to accommodate these money making schemes, so in a sense those of us who don't support these practices are already being punished, punished by seeing promising games ruined by corporate greed.
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Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Oct 18, 2016 21:17:18 GMT
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kappaneko
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Dec 20, 2017 11:18:30 GMT
I'm backing o Ventus on this. While I consider loot boxes predatory and wish they would go away, I do not support government regulation for pretty much the same reasons. I agree that loot boxes prey on the gratification rush that we ALL get from opening boxes, and therefore the urge to pull the trigger is not entirely "voluntary", BUT it's not like people have no self-control. Some don't, but they should seek help and like dry alcoholics not touch that poison. Just don't be stupid and buy games that trigger your addiction like that. This reminds me of the massive amount of damage that is currently being done by the war against abusing prescription drugs in the States. Just because some addicts overdose and die, EVERYONE is now suffering. People who suffer from crippling chronic pain like a dear friend of mine are now facing getting their much needed pain relief taken away or reduced because some people abuse the system. Now of course there is nothing good about micro transactions for the consumer, I know that. But my point is, we are NOT responsible for those who cannot control themselves. We should try to help them overcome their addiction if we know them personally but limiting access to it doesn't actually solve the problem these people have. And I'm not sure no loot boxes ever again is going to make games better. I do believe games have become a lot more expensive to make and that selling a lot of copies used to be easier when I was a kid and the number of games was somewhat limited. Especially on console. Now the market is flooded with the same type of games and competition is very high. I browsed sales figures of certain games the other day and man, the numbers they used to push 20 years ago... Nintendo got filthy rich. Most of the top selling games of all times are still Nintendo games. Some newer games still sell well because they continue to have a monopoly on a particular style. And yet Nintendo struggles too these days because the competition that is stronger than ever before. And I'm not talking consoles ony, i'm also talking mobile games. It's a complex topic. I'm not suggesting loot boxes and MT in general are needed, I'm simply questioning the increase in quality people are hoping for by getting rid of them through hard regulation. Could be some games don't get made at all without the extra money made on MT. I do not have a problem with loot boxes that simply allow people to get something quicker by spending money. Some people simply don't have the time to grind for 100 hours just to get that one weapon or character. But they may have the money. And it's their right to spend that money. I consider cosmetic items like skins behind pay walls ok-ish but already taking it a bit far. It does affect the enjoyment for some people. And those who put it in Overwatch know this very well. I don't mind that it takes forever to get all skins for the ME3MP characters. At least I don't have to spend money on it if I'm patient. I never bought a loot box with real money in my life and I don't plan to. And I don't feel very tempted at all. We are not slaves to these systems. Strictly speaking, MT offer a service. Money for time. And that is FINE. Within reason. If the time required to unlock stuff is so skewed that people give up in frustration, I call it a rigged game. Then it's really like getting conned out of your money. MT should never offer a real gameplay advantage imo.If a game isn't fun without spending extra money, then something is wrong. We as consumers can show these publishers what is fine and what's not. By not pre-ordering and not buying games that are extremely predatory. That's one good thing about free market. It is run by demand. Stop buying (=demanding) shitty lootbox games. And reward publishers/developers that offer good value for your money. My two cents.
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Jun 16, 2019 15:53:28 GMT
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2,697
August 2016
oventus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by o Ventus on Dec 20, 2017 14:12:15 GMT
Okay, so that just ties into my "punishing someone for someone ELSE'S lack of self control" point. If someone pays 60 dollars for Overwatch and expects a dress up simulator, that's on them and is *not* what's advertised. "You don't have much of a choice" What a non-sequitur. You absolutely DO have a choice. Nobody is born addicted to something. You don't see prescription drugs being banned because some people are methheads, that would be fucking retarded. Quite literally anything can be an addiction, from gambling to gaming to drugs to eating to *sleeping*. If you were a game dev or a publisher, why should you take the fall for someone else's problems? Someone else's lack of self control isn't your problem, that's for THEM to work out. I don't have sympathy for addicts anyway, their problems are entirely self-fulfilling and can literally be quelled by just stopping whatever they're doing, yet they're so incapable of independent thought and action that they need to be treated like children who just don't know any better. I'm not "okay with the system". It's be really cool if you and other people who respond to me didn't pretend to comprehend what I think, like you're some kind of fucking mind reading wizard. I just don't think that loot boxes, assuming they're more like Overwatch's business model and not Battlefront's, are the next great big boogeyman, and that trying to get the government involved is a fucking terrible idea. I don't know about you, but I actually like to play games. What I don't like is games no longer being available for me to buy due to a potential AO rating because some fucking loser with ADD can't stop himself from spending money. This is like the world's most retarded rendition of "you behaved badly now the whole class is getting punished", like shitty teachers would do in school. That didn't make the bad kids behave better, that just made everyone else hate the bad kids while the bad kids went on continuing to be garbage. Ok, so you are infallible, more intelligent, and have no weaknesses. That is fantastic, and I am honored to post in your direction. With your infallibility, you ought to recognize that you yourself are an extreme minority. You may find this surprising, unless you are also omniscient in your infallibility, but most people are actually pretty weak, have lots of distractions, and are not geniuses by any stretch. I don't love it that I am surrounded by idiots on a daily basis either. However, I have come to grips with the reality that this is just a fact of life. As smarty smart as I do consider myself, I make bad decisions all the time and some of them have been made in moments of weakness. Not being a total weakling, I have managed to conquer most of my vices. Your standard and expectations of others is a great source of misery for you. Accept it, and perhaps you will start to have a single reasonable expectation of society. As it stands, you are a Randtard. I make bad decisions too. You know what I don't do? Ask for *other people* to take the blame for my bad decisions. You know, because I'm an adult. What the fuck is a "randtard"?
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oventus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by o Ventus on Dec 20, 2017 14:33:58 GMT
"Cosmetic is actually as important" 1) Okay, so that just ties into my "punishing someone for someone ELSE'S lack of self control" point. If someone pays 60 dollars for Overwatch and expects a dress up simulator, that's on them and is *not* what's advertised. "You don't have much of a choice" 2) What a non-sequitur. You absolutely DO have a choice. Nobody is born addicted to something. You don't see prescription drugs being banned because some people are methheads, that would be fucking retarded. Quite literally anything can be an addiction, from gambling to gaming to drugs to eating to *sleeping*. If you were a game dev or a publisher, why should you take the fall for someone else's problems? Someone else's lack of self control isn't your problem, that's for THEM to work out. I don't have sympathy for addicts anyway, their problems are entirely self-fulfilling and can literally be quelled by just stopping whatever they're doing, yet they're so incapable of independent thought and action that they need to be treated like children who just don't know any better. 3) I'm not "okay with the system". It's be really cool if you and other people who respond to me didn't pretend to comprehend what I think, like you're some kind of fucking mind reading wizard. I just don't think that loot boxes, assuming they're more like Overwatch's business model and not Battlefront's, are the next great big boogeyman, and that trying to get the government involved is a fucking terrible idea. I don't know about you, but I actually like to play games. What I don't like is games no longer being available for me to buy due to a potential AO rating because some fucking loser with ADD can't stop himself from spending money. This is like the world's most retarded rendition of "you behaved badly now the whole class is getting punished", like shitty teachers would do in school. That didn't make the bad kids behave better, that just made everyone else hate the bad kids while the bad kids went on continuing to be garbage. 1) I didn't mean that. If the game has cosmetics of any type locked behind a paywall, that's still a pretty big deal for some people. I think actual gameplay and other elements of the game are more important than cosmetics, and that's my personal take, but it's just picking what's more important when everything is part of the game to begin with. And obviously for other people how your character look is super important, if not the most important thing. A hell of a lot of people don't pick armor in MMOs because it provides protection, often times they pick them because of how "cool" they look. Looks is their primary goal. Cosmetics can be just as bad. 2) Sorry, I just disagree. Although part of what you said makes sense to me, devs are actually implementing loot boxes because they know people may get insane and go on a buy rampage, or simply spend hundreds if not thousands in loot boxes through the course of the game's life span. It happens all the time, CS GO has like god knows how many on-line gambling sites to sell skins and what not, that's how fucking crazy people can get. And folks may get their addiction through those games, it actually happened already. All those loot box sells make devs tons of money, otherwise they wouldn't bother implementing them in the first place. The primary goal is to get people into spending a lot of money in what it seems to be a harmless way because it's 5 bucks here, 5 there, another 5 tomorrow... and on and on it goes. 3) I just assumed you were okay since you seem to be defending it, but fair enough. Government getting involved? yeah that's what happens sometimes when you cross the line, it's not ideal, but it seems to be the only way these greedy ass companies would listen. And for the record, I don't think companies implement loot boxes because they think it's a fun or cool mechanic for the consumer, many people agree the system doesn't even make sense in most games, companies implement them because it brings lots of money as I've already said above. I feel like we're just repeating ourselves at this point, but: "someone else's lack of self control." Personally I couldn't give less of a fuck if someone got hooked on lootboxes and gambled themselves into homelessness. Fuck those people, they lack any sort of discipline. What I DO give a fuck about, is having MY enjoyment derailed because of assholes like that, particularly when they're a tiny fringe minority. Very few people actually get "addicted" to gambling a la video game lootboxes. 9 times out of 10 the whales aren't even addicts, they're people like big name streamers or YouTubers. Take a look at someone like TotalBiscuit, every time a new Hearthstone expansion comes out he drops several hundred dollars on it for the new cards, because it's his job, and he keeps buying packs until he has every single new card. Now that there's like 7 expansions out for that game, he has to have put in a good $2000 or so since launch. Behind online personalities, the second biggest group of whales would be bored rich people with nothing better to do. Trust me, that's much more common than people think, it's not some twitchy junkie tweak freak looking to get his next loot box fix, offering handies in the alleyway for $5 to sate his Overwatch habit. Nobody ever argued against lootboxes existing for money. I feel like there should be some written "No Shit Sherlock" clause, where just because someone doesn't openly state something, doesn't mean that they're not aware of that something. Like, yes, I know why loot boxes are in games. Loot boxes and microtransactions originally came about as a sort of replacement to traditional DLC. Instead of paying $20 for a map pack in Battlefield, or whatever, the idea is that the updates and new content can come out "for free" since the supplementary income is now provided by the boxes. This is how games like Overwatch and Gears of War 4's models work. It crosses the line into egregious when the game also locks content and progression behind paywalls, be it behind the boxes themselves, or by also incorporating the traditional DLC model. Call of Duty WWII is an example of the latter, it has $15 map packs in addition to loot boxes, and now with the Christmas update they've added in DLC guns in the loot boxes, so now the boxes can affect gameplay, making them far far worse. Battlefront 2 is an example of the former, with simple character progression tied to loot boxes. Even disregarding all of this, a lot of games offer alternatives to buying boxes, mostly in the form of grinding and farming. Overwatch gives you a free loot box with every player level earned, which is a perfectly fair model, assuming the person playing isn't a mental invalid and is capable of pushing buttons and moving a mouse/joystick in the right direction (asking for a lot from the average gamer, I know, since they're too busy giving a good SUCC for loot box money).
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by o Ventus on Dec 20, 2017 14:43:35 GMT
Absolutely the fuck not. As disgusting as system's like Battlefront 2's are, it's not the government's place to tell developers and publishers how they're allowed to make their games. Especially since Chris Lee doesn't make it clear whether he's only targeting pay-to-win lootboxes or lootboxes as a whole. I feel that this distinction is important because Chris himself actually makes it in the video, but when he talks about his proposal, he doesn't mention it at all. Why should a game like Overwatch, whose lootboxes contain only cosmetic items and have no tangible effect on the player experience, be restricted in the same way as Battlefront 2, whose lootboxes outright bar people's progression and advancement? Furthermore, as Yong points out toward the end, if this bill passes and games get "gambling" disclaimers applied to their ratings, that's just going to bump them up to AO ratings, so no retailers are actually going to sell these games to protect their reputations. As weasely as big publishers are and as happy as they are to exploit loopholes, they have a very valid point when they say that lootboxes are voluntary. Nobody is forcing you to pay for lootboxes, and they're not required to play the game. This entire idea just sounds like punishing someone because someone ELSE can't control themselves. That's like going to a card shop and buying $1000 in MTG booster packs for 1 specific card, and then when you don't get that card you propose a law stating that only people 21 and up can play card games, since essentially all card games utilize this same booster pack business model. That's fucking retarded. Personally I would consider the lootboxes in Overwatch the same as those in Battlefront 2, sure the cosmetics in Overwatch don't give a tangible advantage in gameplay however they are still a commodity people want and are willing to gamble for and they should fall under the same legislation if there is to be legislation surrounding lootboxes and microtransactions. As for being punished because other people can't control themselves we are already being punished. The whales that buy into this crap are the very reason these systems exist, if nobody bought lootboxes and microtransactions or the games that go out of their way to include predatory monetization schemes then these systems would not be profitable and publishers would be less keen to pursue them, however because there are a few people willing to spend thousands on microtransactions and lootboxes publishers will strip any semblance of fun or enjoyment from their games in order to accommodate these money making schemes, so in a sense those of us who don't support these practices are already being punished, punished by seeing promising games ruined by corporate greed. Blame the rise of YouTube and everyone pretending that they have an interesting enough personality to make people want to watch them play games then. Anyone with a YouTube channel and a handful of subscribers can (and does) buy $100 in lootboxes to "entertain" their audience. Shit like Trump opening 50 Hearthstone card packs whenever new content releases, or SASxSH4DOWZ opening 25 gear packs in Gears of War 4 whenever new skins get released. Like I mentioned before, people like TotalBiscuit make it a point to own every single Hearthstone card or whatever, because it's part of their literal job online. I don't blame them, but if you want to point fingers at whales, look at them first.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 20, 2017 18:05:42 GMT
Welp, here's a AAA gamedev insider pouring cold water on people's heads: Question: Single player games were the winners at the game awards. So I'm interested to know, is the inudstry showing signs of returning to make more single player experiences after the brain dead comments by EA? Answer: The flippant answer that immediately popped into my head was “I’m sure we will as soon as winning awards becomes as important (or more) than making money”, but the more realistic answer is “The possibility is there but, even if it is, the public won’t know until 2019 at the earliest”. This is primarily because it usually takes two to three years for a full development cycle, and the projects that are going to be released before 2019 have already been in development for a year at least. That said, there’s no good news about sales numbers for Wolfenstein: The New Colossus, which was a AAA title that was both critically acclaimed (87-88 metacritic score) and specifically eschewed multiplayer for a better single-player experience. It’s unfortunate, because it even won the Best Action Game award at the Game Awards, but it isn’t selling well. That’s going to stick in the mind of many publishers - Zenimax put a lot of money into Wolfenstein and specifically made the “no-multiplayer” aspect a part of their marketing campaign. They were clearly hoping that this line of development would resonate with gamers and translate to sales… and it just didn’t happen. If you really want to see a return to more single-player games, you and a lot of other gamers need to vote with your wallets and buy them (especially new, especially with DLC).
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Post by mattig89ch on Dec 20, 2017 18:30:37 GMT
That said, there’s no good news about sales numbers for Wolfenstein: The New Colossus, which was a AAA title that was both critically acclaimed (87-88 metacritic score) and specifically eschewed multiplayer for a better single-player experience. It’s unfortunate, because it even won the Best Action Game award at the Game Awards, but it isn’t selling well. That’s going to stick in the mind of many publishers - Zenimax put a lot of money into Wolfenstein and specifically made the “no-multiplayer” aspect a part of their marketing campaign. They were clearly hoping that this line of development would resonate with gamers and translate to sales… and it just didn’t happen. If you really want to see a return to more single-player games, you and a lot of other gamers need to vote with your wallets and buy them (especially new, especially with DLC). I like this sentiment. I agree, we do need to spend money on SP titles. Myself, I was going to buy some DLC for games I already own for this GOG winter sale. But on my way into work, I decided to buy new base game(s) instead. If we want SP games, we need to buy SP games. Its just that simple.
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Post by mattig89ch on Dec 24, 2017 21:48:45 GMT
Just something to remember about future EA games.
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Post by linksocarina on Dec 25, 2017 15:05:25 GMT
Just something to remember about future EA games. I'm getting really sick of the cynical doom and gloom from random internet critics, especially when their entire thesis is just to do a thinly veiled pre judgement to justify an opinion later and trash talking a company with little empirical evidence, just parroting shit they heard.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 25, 2017 15:20:12 GMT
I'm getting really sick of the cynical doom and gloom from random internet critics In the absence of actual facts, they get clicks. It's easy to see why publishers increasingly just keep their heads down.
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Post by mattig89ch on Dec 25, 2017 16:01:41 GMT
Just something to remember about future EA games. I'm getting really sick of the cynical doom and gloom from random internet critics, especially when their entire thesis is just to do a thinly veiled pre judgement to justify an opinion later and trash talking a company with little empirical evidence, just parroting shit they heard. Is it really based off lack of evidence? Think about the games released in the past year. Personally, I have the impression that this guy has the right idea of it. Purley based off the evidence we have to date. I can't say I'm scared myself, but all the evidence I have makes me think this game will be nothing but a skinner box designed to get you to spend money on top of the $60 you already spent. [/quote]
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Sept 12, 2018 2:39:31 GMT
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 12, 2018 4:43:15 GMT
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Post by Queen Skadi on Sept 12, 2018 9:45:06 GMT
And yet they don't even know if the Anthem model will be a success, they must either have a lot of faith in Anthem (faith that nobody outside EA shares) or Bioware knows that if Anthem fails their studios are done for so it is pointless theorizing about games that don't follow the Anthem model.
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Post by CitizenChris on Sept 12, 2018 10:03:13 GMT
They are by their very nature “predatory” no matter if it is “just cosmetics” or not. They exist to lull people in to spent more money on a game by “skipping the grind”. The grind is a deliberate design choice the publishers have worked into the game. They wouldn’t exist otherwise.
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Post by mybudgee on Sept 16, 2018 19:33:06 GMT
They are by their very nature “predatory” no matter if it is “just cosmetics” or not. They exist to lull people in to spent more money on a game by “skipping the grind”. The grind is a deliberate design choice the publishers have worked into the game. They wouldn’t exist otherwise. Agreed 110% To all of you who are defending this practice, and by extension corporate greed & deception you are what's wrong with the world. Those (like you) who mindlessly go along with the big conglomerate agenda because of fear/laziness disgust me. You have forgotten a fundamental fact about modern companies; they exist to SERVE the customer, not the other way around. Get your heads out of your asses. Please *mod edit*
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Sept 16, 2018 21:14:44 GMT
Hi, A post has been edited for a minor breach of Rules and Expectations As reasonable, rational people, you understand that your fellow users deserve a basic but universal standard of respect. You also understand, however, that the Internet (and the world at large) is composed of people whose opinions may conflict with yours and that conflict may not be the most pleasant. At the end of the day, you may not agree or even like some users very much. But we expect you to maintain that universal respect, nonetheless. Name calling/insulting people who may disagree with your opinion is not maintaining a basic level of respect. Thanks.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Sept 18, 2018 10:20:44 GMT
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Post by CHRrOME on Sept 19, 2018 1:45:53 GMT
Oof.
Welp, gambling was gambling all along. So it was stated after a dozen countries in Europe decided that EA's BS does indeed break their law, things are not looking bright for the whale experience and "take your money" simulator EA is so good at.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Oct 2, 2018 0:29:09 GMT
I think game publishers are forgetting one particular frontline advertisement; the salesperson behind the counter. Read the comments of one viewer of this video.
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