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Post by midnight tea on Jan 24, 2018 20:07:37 GMT
Okay, having calmed down a little bit, here are some thoughts on some means of “live services” I could tolerate Post release content, like say adding additional bosses or “monster hunts” in addition to story DLC. Co-op dungeons released periodically after the base game, or maybe co-op versions of dungeons in the campaign. What I really don’t want to see is a cash shop plopped into the single player or to see it turned into a fantasy version of SWTOR. In AC:O they have this thing where you can avenge players that were slain in their game by local enemies. You get experience for killing the enemies and a message saying "You avenged player [gamertag]" and it's actually a pretty fun little optional thing to do on the side. I wouldn't mind something like that. DA universe is built in a way that would allow for game elements like that - namely Fade and spirits. Depending on what happens or how it's implemented, I could see those two elements allowing for different things of that kind. Perhaps we could even design our own spirits in some way and they could aid a player if they summon them for some sort of esoteric currency that we accumulate, or gain it if we help someone, or our spirit helps someone.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 24, 2018 20:08:11 GMT
The only time I ever want to connect to the Internet to play a single-player game is to register it, and even then that's only out of necessity. I don't. I love my easily customizable world-states in Dragon Age Keep (btw. that's a live service) and want DAK to be further implemented into experience. It's nice, but I wish there was an offline version of it.
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 24, 2018 20:08:23 GMT
In AC:O they have this thing where you can avenge players that were slain in their game by local enemies. You get experience for killing the enemies and a message saying "You avenged player [gamertag]" and it's actually a pretty fun little optional thing to do on the side. I wouldn't mind something like that. DA universe is built in a way that would allow for game elements like that - namely Fade and spirits. Depending on what happens or how it's implemented, I could see those two elements allowing for different kind of things of that kind. Perhaps we could even design our own spirits in some way and they could aid a player if they summon them for some sort of esoteric currency that we accumulate, or gain if we help someone our spirit helps someone. Maybe a bit like Pawns in Dragon’s Dogma?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 20:10:49 GMT
I fucking hate EA, because I just know their new CEO is going to find a way to ruin my favorite franchise. -Kotaku article Okay, fine. I will blame Salos instead...fucking Salos.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 24, 2018 20:10:55 GMT
I wouldn't mind something like that. DA universe is built in a way that would allow for game elements like that - namely Fade and spirits. Depending on what happens or how it's implemented, I could see those two elements allowing for different kind of things of that kind. Perhaps we could even design our own spirits in some way and they could aid a player if they summon them for some sort of esoteric currency that we accumulate, or gain if we help someone our spirit helps someone. Maybe a bit like Pawns in Dragon’s Dogma? Yep, that's the first thing I keep returning to when I think of fun 'live service' modes I liked that system a lot. And, from what I've seen, DA developers really, really like that game as well. I think I even saw one of developers mentioned playing it recently and perhaps it was 'for research'?
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Post by Iakus on Jan 24, 2018 20:13:04 GMT
Wow, Kotaku starts a new witch hunt. Way to go. Unfortunately, once a developer's series go through design whiplash a few times, pessimism becomes a valid reaction.
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Post by Max Deltree on Jan 24, 2018 20:13:19 GMT
I like the model they're using with Assassins Creed Origins.
It's a pure single player game, but if you're online, there are a few things:
- You can see photos taken by other players;
- There is a daily simple mission;
- You can avenge the death of other players.
And that's it. Granted, there's a bit of micro-transactions, but it's cosmetic.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 24, 2018 20:15:09 GMT
I don't it was the problem with multiplayer per se, but with multiplayer how it was. And I do have to point out that "live service" ain't necessarily straightforward "multiplayer". True, but EA wants people to keep playing longer in a way that keeps them paying money. Multiplayer is good for that. Modding is better, imo.
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Post by Fredward on Jan 24, 2018 20:15:51 GMT
Ugh just fucking feed me directly into a meat grinder fam. The simple fact that they feel the need to mention that the game will "still" be focused heavily on characters and story tell me that A) they know those things don't play well together or they know it's so widely seen as aggressively anathema that they're gonna receive shit for it, in which case why do it?The most intuitive assumption is that the game will have substantial online content, if it was simply in line with what we had with DAI or even MEA it wouldn't have warranted a mention. EA considers Sims 4 a "live service" game, I suppose that might be used as an example of the best case scenario? Utterly obscene amounts of piecemeal DLC? But I'm expecting that it's an MMO or has some other permanently online/connected element until explicitly told otherwise.
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Post by Schmooples on Jan 24, 2018 20:17:36 GMT
Well. Fuck EA. That's all I have to say, carry on.
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Post by blanks on Jan 24, 2018 20:18:28 GMT
Deeply concerning to read that DA4 has been rebooted in part to incorporate more live service hooks. I'm still wait and see on it, but I'm pretty close to writing off BioWare completely at this point.
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 24, 2018 20:19:28 GMT
The simple fact that they feel the need to mention that the game will "still" be focused heavily on characters and story tell me that A) they know those things don't play well together or they know it's so widely seen as aggressively anathema that they're gonna receive shit for it, in which case why do it?Or maybe they say it because they know these are the sorts of assumptions people will make the moment they hear “live services”?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 20:21:49 GMT
MMO is always my first and biggest fear for DA because it almost happened once.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 24, 2018 20:23:23 GMT
MMO is always my first and biggest fear for DA because it almost happened once. MMOs are also some of the most expensive games to make on market and not that many companies are quick to do them anymore, I'd like to point out.
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Post by Fredward on Jan 24, 2018 20:24:55 GMT
The simple fact that they feel the need to mention that the game will "still" be focused heavily on characters and story tell me that A) they know those things don't play well together or they know it's so widely seen as aggressively anathema that they're gonna receive shit for it, in which case why do it?Or maybe they say it because they know these are the sorts of assumptions people will make the moment they hear “live services”? That was covered in option b.
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Post by Zemgus on Jan 24, 2018 20:26:24 GMT
I just read that article and seems like Anthem is going to be the end of Bioware. Planning to stop developing SWTOR? WTF. Is what happened with MEA truly so damaging?
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Post by LukeBarrett on Jan 24, 2018 20:30:14 GMT
Just an FYI, we (Bioware) don't really comment on any unconfirmed information so that is why you won't see much clarification about things like this with any amount of haste. Honestly, most designers wish they could speak more candidly about things because they're usually quite excited about their work but due to the tumultuous nature of gamedev it's just too unstable until you get much closer to launch and things are confirmed for realsies (because you have no time to change them).
And, as a reminder, I read most threads here on a pretty regular basis and am cognizant of your feedback whenever working on features or pitches for... whatever it is I'm working on.
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Post by CHRrOME on Jan 24, 2018 20:30:19 GMT
Could be anything really. After the mess that MEA was of course I'm nervous about what DA4 is going to be like especially with all the people jumping ship, but I guess there's no point in worrying about it. I just hope it's as good as Inquisition was. I would absolutely love it if one day they made a DA version of SWTOR (meaning as good and story heavy MMO like SWTOR because that game is just so good) but not before the current "phase" is over (Dragon Age?) DA doesn't actually have to end with "Dragon" Age, does it? I could see a time jump happening after these current events are dealt with (mostly Solas, Mythal and rest of the Elven Gods). That game could be about dealing with the Qunari problem. Imagine Qun having invaded half of Thedas while the Tevinter Imperium has risen from ashes and invaded the other half? I think if the Qunari were to invade Thedas the first thing to be wiped out would be Tevinter, I mean, they're the ones "holding" the invasion for the most part right now. For me at least, it's hard to imagine how could they make a plot as good as Origins without actually making the game about yet another blight (which would be repetitive). Mass Effect always seemed to me like a far easier franchise to make cool new stories without the need of repeating themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 20:32:42 GMT
MMO is always my first and biggest fear for DA because it almost happened once. MMOs are also some of the most expensive games to make on market and not that many companies are quick to do them anymore, I'd like to point out. I know this fear isn't rational, but it will never go away.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jan 24, 2018 20:36:12 GMT
Just an FYI, we (Bioware) don't really comment on any unconfirmed information so that is why you won't see much clarification about things like this with any amount of haste. Honestly, most designers wish they could speak more candidly about things because they're usually quite excited about their work but due to the tumultuous nature of gamedev it's just too unstable until you get much closer to launch and things are confirmed for realsies (because you have no time to change them). And, as a reminder, I read most threads here on a pretty regular basis and am cognizant of your feedback whenever working on features or pitches for... whatever it is I'm working on.
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Post by Fredward on Jan 24, 2018 20:37:15 GMT
Also, the game wouldn't have needed to be "rebooted" unless there was a pretty fundamental shift in the direction/focus. So another mark in the "Probably not itty bitty, non-intrusive 'live service' additions" isle.
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 24, 2018 20:38:04 GMT
I just read that article and seems like Anthem is going to be the end of Bioware. Planning to stop developing SWTOR? WTF. Is what happened with MEA truly so damaging? I think what happened to Montreal is a chilling reminder of what could happen to the rest of Bioware if Anthem doesn’t succeed. Anthem needs to be at least moderately successful.
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 24, 2018 20:39:35 GMT
Also, the game wouldn't have needed to be "rebooted" unless there was a pretty fundamental shift in the direction/focus. So another mark in the "Probably not itty bitty, non-intrusive 'live service' additions" isle. Debatable.
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Post by Fredward on Jan 24, 2018 20:41:55 GMT
Also, the game wouldn't have needed to be "rebooted" unless there was a pretty fundamental shift in the direction/focus. So another mark in the "Probably not itty bitty, non-intrusive 'live service' additions" isle. Debatable. Sure. Also, if the game was recently rebooted it also means that what we assumed was a nice, cushiony, extra long pre-production cycle actually wasn't. I dislike all of this quite intensely.
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Post by luketrevelyan on Jan 24, 2018 20:42:44 GMT
I just read that article and seems like Anthem is going to be the end of Bioware. Planning to stop developing SWTOR? WTF. Is what happened with MEA truly so damaging? I think what happened to Montreal is a chilling reminder of what could happen to the rest of Bioware if Anthem doesn’t succeed. Anthem needs to be at least moderately successful. It is sort of all related. Would MEA have flopped if Anthem didn't exist? Would we be getting DA4 sooner? So is it MEA that was damaging, or Anthem? Probably a bit of both.
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