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Post by river82 on Jan 24, 2018 20:45:08 GMT
This is a pretty uninformative piece of ... well, information. I admit that the lack of detail present is useful to feed people's fears though.
EA defines a live service as one where new content can be added constantly to the game. The EA CEO made a pretty vague comment about players having new ways to play the game also.
Incorporating more live elements may mean moving the game DA4 marginally toward this ultimate end goal. This could be as simple as the inclusion of cosmetic lootboxes because the EA CEO said "they can play and earn things, or they can pay for things" which ties into the "different ways to play the game". That lootboxes could be an element to "live service" is counter-intuitive to me, but I guess that's marketing speech for you - it's not meant to be intuitive or paint an actual picture, it's just supposed to sound pleasant.
It is true that The Old Republic is a live service, you can play single or multiplayer and content is added regularly. This does not mean, however, that live services are going to be predominantly online multiplayer games. EA is looking to move their sport games, which they release annually with minimal actual upgrades to the frustration of many, to a live service model. That way they can deliver their minimal upgrades to the players via the interweb and not require people to fork out an extra 60 bucks every year for "new ways to trade players" and "oh look, we have press conferences". Even though EA is looking to turn FIFA into a live service, that game will still be very much single player (if you so choose), but with just constant updates to the players instead of in bulk and in the form of a new game. In case you can't tell, I actually view that as a good thing because annual sport releases are a rort.
So what's it going to be like in DA4? Who knows. It's a pretty uninformative piece of information *shrugs*
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Post by Iakus on Jan 24, 2018 20:48:17 GMT
I just read that article and seems like Anthem is going to be the end of Bioware. Planning to stop developing SWTOR? WTF. Is what happened with MEA truly so damaging? I think what happened to Montreal is a chilling reminder of what could happen to the rest of Bioware if Anthem doesn’t succeed. Anthem needs to be at least moderately successful. Only if you want to see Bioware remain in its vampiric form, draining its fanbase of money and trust.. Me, I'd rather see it staked and remember it for what it once was.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 20:51:33 GMT
Joplin is a terrible name to associate with something you want to succeed, just sayin'. Weirdly, I am on board with some kind of reboot, considering that there is already little stylistic consistency from game to game. What that would look like though could be anything. I mean are we talking throw all the lore and plot momentum from the last game out the window and doing like a post-Veil-destruction fantasy weirdland, or more like changing the actual type of game it is, making it more like an action shooter with optional co-op? I'm all onboard for the former, not so much the latter. I don’t think this means they’re reorienting the whole franchise, just that they’re redesigning parts of this game. Which could have nothing to do with plot. And I do hope they keep a robust single-player experience available, if for no other reason than to resolve certain bits of the story, and to let me enjoy the full "gaming group when my gaming group isn't around" mixed with dating-sim sort of play that the past iterations have provided. I think the sort of story stuff I find intriguing is already built into the world, waiting to be discovered, no further apocalypse required, but I'm open to radical shifts as long as the bones are still identifiable as Dragon Age. As far as departures from exclusive single-player, I think some of the dungeons in DA:I would have been great to explore the first time multiplayer with friends - Chateau D'Onterre, Lost Temple of Dirthamen, Coracavus - those all could have been fun, but I wouldn't want to have to be forced to play the more elaborate missions like Adamant or WEWH, multiplayer. If they could find a way to keep the big cut-scene heavy single-player missions and well-developed NPC relationships, while allowing for a co-op system that doesn't require extra investment or lock you out of plot, that could be pretty cool.
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Post by sandalisthemaker on Jan 24, 2018 20:51:57 GMT
This kind of makes me sick to my stomach. Once upon a time, back when we knew nothing of the new IP, everyone here was so excited about all the possibilities. Could it be steampunk? Modern day? Superheroes? Etc. But then we found out it was a MMO and my enthusiasm just died. Same for many others. And the thought of Dragon Age's fate resting precariously on Anthem's shoulders is nervewracking to say the least. And now this. I love Dragon Age. Without a doubt, it is my favorite video game series. I will wait and see, but the idea that Dragon Age could end up a MMO or something equally dreadful (whatever this "Live Service" means), pains me. I don't do multiplayer. The ultra competitiveness, the trolling, and other negative behaviors rampant in online multiplayer games just isn't for me. I will shed ugly tears if DA4 ends up a MMO or online co-op or whatever. Loot chests and the like don't bother me so much, since they are optional. But I worry about the story suffering because of this, and what's this about a reboot? Just an FYI, we (Bioware) don't really comment on any unconfirmed information so that is why you won't see much clarification about things like this with any amount of haste. Honestly, most designers wish they could speak more candidly about things because they're usually quite excited about their work but due to the tumultuous nature of gamedev it's just too unstable until you get much closer to launch and things are confirmed for realsies (because you have no time to change them). And, as a reminder, I read most threads here on a pretty regular basis and am cognizant of your feedback whenever working on features or pitches for... whatever it is I'm working on. Bless your soul.
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 24, 2018 20:52:34 GMT
Sure. Also, if the game was recently rebooted it also means that what we assumed was a nice, cushiony, extra long pre-production cycle actually wasn't. I dislike all of this quite intensely. Reboot doesn’t necessarily mean they tossed out years of work. At the end of the day, we don’t what this “reboot” really means.
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 24, 2018 20:57:12 GMT
I think what happened to Montreal is a chilling reminder of what could happen to the rest of Bioware if Anthem doesn’t succeed. Anthem needs to be at least moderately successful. Only if you want to see Bioware remain in its vampiric form, draining its fanbase of money and trust.. Me, I'd rather see it staked and remember it for what it once was. And this is a mindset I can never agree with, it’s just spite. just because they aren’t making games self-proclaimed “real fans” like doesn’t mean they aren’t making games some of us still enjoy.
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Post by Lazarillo on Jan 24, 2018 21:00:55 GMT
That article has a deep, desperate need for a Wikipedia editor to start adding "citation needed" footnotes. There's a lot of things in it that I certainly fear could be true, but as it is it really feels more like a backhanded attempt at that same sort of anti-EA clickbait "toxicity" that it simultaneously tries to pan near the end.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 24, 2018 21:02:35 GMT
Sure. Also, if the game was recently rebooted it also means that what we assumed was a nice, cushiony, extra long pre-production cycle actually wasn't. I dislike all of this quite intensely. Reboot doesn’t necessarily mean they tossed out years of work. At the end of the day, we don’t what this “reboot” really means. We can't even tell if calling it 'reboot' is accurate.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jan 24, 2018 21:06:01 GMT
Just an FYI, we (Bioware) don't really comment on any unconfirmed information so that is why you won't see much clarification about things like this with any amount of haste. Honestly, most designers wish they could speak more candidly about things because they're usually quite excited about their work but due to the tumultuous nature of gamedev it's just too unstable until you get much closer to launch and things are confirmed for realsies (because you have no time to change them). And, as a reminder, I read most threads here on a pretty regular basis and am cognizant of your feedback whenever working on features or pitches for... whatever it is I'm working on. "whatever it is" Got it. And thanks Luke.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jan 24, 2018 21:07:51 GMT
Sure. Also, if the game was recently rebooted it also means that what we assumed was a nice, cushiony, extra long pre-production cycle actually wasn't. I dislike all of this quite intensely. Reboot doesn’t necessarily mean they tossed out years of work. At the end of the day, we don’t what this “reboot” really means. It seems as though, these days, reboot can mean anything from "completely retconning everything that has happened and starting again from scratch" to "5 degree shift to the left in tone and style". You're right, 'reboot' tells us nothing, other than 'plans changed slightly during development'.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 24, 2018 21:07:56 GMT
The article does smack of throwing a hand grenade into a room to see what happens...
Jason has sources that have been proved valid in the past, but there's a great deal of ambiguity in what those things might mean.
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Post by Zemgus on Jan 24, 2018 21:09:55 GMT
I just read that article and seems like Anthem is going to be the end of Bioware. Planning to stop developing SWTOR? WTF. Is what happened with MEA truly so damaging? I think what happened to Montreal is a chilling reminder of what could happen to the rest of Bioware if Anthem doesn’t succeed. Anthem needs to be at least moderately successful. Well sounds like either way things are bad. If Anthem is successful: they continue to invest in it and be a "one-game studio" at the expense of DA and SWTOR. If it fails... worst case scenario it's the end of Bioware. I don't even know which option I should hope for. I don't care about Anthem for itself. Seems like they made a decision and that decision is Anthem. Everything else is secondary.
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Post by shechinah on Jan 24, 2018 21:10:50 GMT
Only if you want to see Bioware remain in its vampiric form, draining its fanbase of money and trust.. Me, I'd rather see it staked and remember it for what it once was. And I'm sorry but I find that to be a selfish thought. There's nothing that makes it so that you have to bestow any attention upon Bioware or any of its future releases. You can leave the company behind yourself and remember it for what it once was to you. I've done that before. It's what I did with Game of Thrones. It's what I did with the Simpsons. And so on. Wanting the company shut down, its employees out of their jobs and for there to be no more games for those that enjoy them is just plain being a Dutch's Ghost.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jan 24, 2018 21:13:50 GMT
The article does smack of throwing a hand grenade into a room to see what happens... Jason has sources that have been proved valid in the past, but there's a great deal of ambiguity in what those things might mean. He did admit he didn't necessarily knew what "live" meant. I guess Trespasser could be considered "live" content. I think we have to give him the benefit of doubt on this one. I mean, there wasn't one MEA "leak" that he reported that turned out to be wrong.
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Post by rras1994 on Jan 24, 2018 21:15:03 GMT
The article does smack of throwing a hand grenade into a room to see what happens... Jason has sources that have been proved valid in the past, but there's a great deal of ambiguity in what those things might mean. I also noticed that it did seem really vague in a lot of areas and there's a lot of events he connects together without any proof or even sources for the reason like with the Mike Laidlaw leaving part.
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 24, 2018 21:17:13 GMT
I think what happened to Montreal is a chilling reminder of what could happen to the rest of Bioware if Anthem doesn’t succeed. Anthem needs to be at least moderately successful. Well sounds like either way things are bad. If Anthem is successful: they continue to invest in it and be a "one-game studio" at the expense of DA and SWTOR. If it fails... worst case scenario it's the end of Bioware. I don't even know which option I should hope for. I don't care about Anthem for itself. Seems like they made a decision and that decision is Anthem. Everything else is secondary. But as Jason says, that’s not unlike what they’ve always done for the next released game. They did that for Andromeda too. Jason may have a history of good sources, but he can also be very vague and use inflammatory phrasing. Don’t leap to conclusions.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 24, 2018 21:17:21 GMT
Only if you want to see Bioware remain in its vampiric form, draining its fanbase of money and trust.. Me, I'd rather see it staked and remember it for what it once was. And I'm sorry but I find that to be a selfish thought. There's nothing that makes it so that you have to bestow any attention upon Bioware or any of its future releases. You can leave the company behind yourself and remember it for what it once was to you. I've done that before. It's what I did with Game of Thrones. It's what I did with the Simpsons. And so on. Wanting the company shut down, its employees out of their jobs and for there to be no more games for those that enjoy them is just plain being a Dutch's Ghost. I will never understand the mindset of "it's either MY way, or they have to die".
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jan 24, 2018 21:17:39 GMT
The article does smack of throwing a hand grenade into a room to see what happens... Jason has sources that have been proved valid in the past, but there's a great deal of ambiguity in what those things might mean. He did admit he didn't necessarily knew what "live" meant. I guess Trespasser could be considered "live" content. I think we have to give him the benefit of doubt on this one. I mean, there wasn't one MEA "leak" that he reported that turned out to be wrong. Hell, back in the day, David Gaider said that the achievements of Dragon Age: Origins fulfilled the 'online component requirement'. Too many bloody buzz words with too many possible meanings. *grumpy old man rant*
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Post by Zemgus on Jan 24, 2018 21:19:03 GMT
Well sounds like either way things are bad. If Anthem is successful: they continue to invest in it and be a "one-game studio" at the expense of DA and SWTOR. If it fails... worst case scenario it's the end of Bioware. I don't even know which option I should hope for. I don't care about Anthem for itself. Seems like they made a decision and that decision is Anthem. Everything else is secondary. But as Jason says, that’s not unlike what they’ve always done for the next released game. They did that for Andromeda too. Jason may have a history of good sources, but he can also be very vague and use inflammatory phrasing. Don’t leap to conclusions. True enough. Wish there was some good news soon... too long since there's been anything but bad news and speculation.
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Post by rras1994 on Jan 24, 2018 21:19:45 GMT
The article does smack of throwing a hand grenade into a room to see what happens... Jason has sources that have been proved valid in the past, but there's a great deal of ambiguity in what those things might mean. He did admit he didn't necessarily knew what "live" meant. I guess Trespasser could be considered "live" content. I think we have to give him the benefit of doubt on this one. I mean, there wasn't one MEA "leak" that he reported that turned out to be wrong. he said that DLC was planned then cancelled after launch which is a bit iffy if that was true given the timeline - BioWare Montreal must of been planned to be merged into EA Motive before launch as they seemed to start the process immediately after launch, leaving only some personnel to deal with patches and MEA multiplayer for a period time. Those decisions to merge companies don't happen overnight. His latter article describing problems with MEA development seemed a lot more accurate.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 24, 2018 21:20:41 GMT
I don't. I love my easily customizable world-states in Dragon Age Keep (btw. that's a live service) and want DAK to be further implemented into experience. So do I, but I don't have to use the Keep to play DAI. It's optional. Yeah I don't mind using it for copying world states in but I don't think I'd want to really touch it outside of that.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jan 24, 2018 21:20:53 GMT
He did admit he didn't necessarily knew what "live" meant. I guess Trespasser could be considered "live" content. I think we have to give him the benefit of doubt on this one. I mean, there wasn't one MEA "leak" that he reported that turned out to be wrong. Hell, back in the day, David Gaider said that the achievements of Dragon Age: Origins fulfilled the 'online component requirement'. Too many bloody buzz words with too many possible meanings. *grumpy old man rant* PR is a bitch.
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Post by river82 on Jan 24, 2018 21:25:08 GMT
I guess Trespasser could be considered "live" content. They seem to advertise it as such. Take for example this graph: Down in tiny print at the bottom: "EA will merge two of the digital net sales categories, 'Extra content' and 'subscriptions, advertising, and Other', and externally report the combined amounts as 'Live services'." So DLC, lootboxes, subscriptions ... whatever "advertising" is. Talk about a confusing term. Thanks EA
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 21:25:56 GMT
This is a pretty uninformative piece of ... well, information. I admit that the lack of detail present is useful to feed people's fears though It's quite manipulative against bioware too. He masterfully injects red dye even as he compliments BioWARE. the last paragraph, for one... a wonderful example of turning a positive statement into a negative one.
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Post by wright1978 on Jan 24, 2018 21:28:36 GMT
worrisome. Don’t like way anthem appears to have sucked all focus either. Live service elements could clearly mean many things, not all of them impinging on traditional single player rpg experience. I can’t br8ng myself to hope anthem is a raging success as I can’t see that as being positive onwards the hopes of them continuing to develop games that interest me.
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