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Post by lilyenachaos on Jan 25, 2018 4:02:15 GMT
Jason clarified the "reboot" comment (a little) over on Twitter... I'll add it in the OP @kreflkmmerThanks Jason, I'm always down for more Dragon Age news. Would you be able to elaborate on what you meant by "reboot"? I took it as the team getting back to work and continue from Inquisition, but it seems like most took it as "scrap where we left off and start from scratch". Jason Schreier @jasonschreierI don't think it was *that* drastic but it was a directional reboot to add more live service elements to the game. That...didn't really clear things up for me. Or make me feel better.
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Twitter Guru
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Prime Posts: 18,258
Prime Likes: 65,767
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 25, 2018 4:05:46 GMT
Or things like being able to upload our characters to share them. I like that aspect of MEA. Messages from other players, like in Dark Souls, could be fun. In an interview some time back Mike talked about how he liked this feature in Dark Souls. He went on to say he was toying with the idea of players interacting across games... somehow... in a way that felt right for DA.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jan 25, 2018 4:12:26 GMT
Jason clarified the "reboot" comment (a little) over on Twitter... I'll add it to the OP. @kreflkmmerThanks Jason, I'm always down for more Dragon Age news. Would you be able to elaborate on what you meant by "reboot"? I took it as the team getting back to work and continue from Inquisition, but it seems like most took it as "scrap where we left off and start from scratch". Jason Schreier @jasonschreierI don't think it was *that* drastic but it was a directional reboot to add more live service elements to the game. Like I said, we’re making too much out of the ‘reboot’ reference.
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
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Origin: Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 25, 2018 4:18:07 GMT
Jason clarified the "reboot" comment (a little) over on Twitter... I'll add it in the OP @kreflkmmerThanks Jason, I'm always down for more Dragon Age news. Would you be able to elaborate on what you meant by "reboot"? I took it as the team getting back to work and continue from Inquisition, but it seems like most took it as "scrap where we left off and start from scratch". Jason Schreier @jasonschreierI don't think it was *that* drastic but it was a directional reboot to add more live service elements to the game. That...didn't really clear things up for me. Or make me feel better. It was more to reaffirm that the "reboot" was (likely) more for LS reasons, rather than story ones, or a reboot of the entire franchise. I wonder if this article might prompt BW to chime in officially to put (at least some) of the speculation to rest...
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Post by Lazarillo on Jan 25, 2018 4:20:14 GMT
I wonder if this article might prompt BW to chime in officially to put (at least some) of the speculation to rest... How about let's not give this guy any added semblance of credibility if he's not prepared to make it for himself.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 25, 2018 4:23:05 GMT
Jason clarified the "reboot" comment (a little) over on Twitter... I'll add it to the OP. @kreflkmmerThanks Jason, I'm always down for more Dragon Age news. Would you be able to elaborate on what you meant by "reboot"? I took it as the team getting back to work and continue from Inquisition, but it seems like most took it as "scrap where we left off and start from scratch". Jason Schreier @jasonschreierI don't think it was *that* drastic but it was a directional reboot to add more live service elements to the game. We’re making too much out of the ‘reboot’ reference. Yea, though I think the wrong word has been used. From the look of it, DAI's additional year that has seen the game add multiple races for PC and some other things could also be considered a 'reboot'. 'Restructuring' perhaps would be more apt description.
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 25, 2018 4:23:48 GMT
I wonder if this article might prompt BW to chime in officially to put (at least some) of the speculation to rest... How about let's not give this guy any added semblance of credibility if he's not prepared to make it for himself. Jason's coverage of BTS development of MEA proved to be accurate, so I think most are giving him the benefit of the doubt for that reason.
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Post by Lazarillo on Jan 25, 2018 4:31:48 GMT
Jason's coverage of BTS development of MEA proved to be accurate, so I think most are giving him the benefit of the doubt for that reason. I assume that means more than just the same as all the other "journalists" who responded to Andromeda announcements and release info with "game is DOOMED y'all"? Because hell, I was doing that, and not even getting paid for it. But just being a pessimistic grump does not credibility build. Even moreso when someone uses the word "reboot" in a knowingly inaccurate way to drum up drama (or is not a skilled enough writer to know better? Either way, it doesn't speak well of him).
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: Hrungr
Prime Posts: 18,258
Prime Likes: 65,767
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 25, 2018 4:43:18 GMT
Jason's coverage of BTS development of MEA proved to be accurate, so I think most are giving him the benefit of the doubt for that reason. I assume that means more than just the same as all the other "journalists" who responded to Andromeda announcements and release info with "game is DOOMED y'all"? Because hell, I was doing that, and not even getting paid for it. But just being a pessimistic grump does not credibility build. Even moreso when someone uses the word "reboot" in a knowingly inaccurate way to drum up drama (or is not a skilled enough writer to know better? Either way, it doesn't speak well of him). The Kotaku article on MEA's development got a lot of attention at the time, and covered aspects we hadn't heard before. There were quite a number of people skeptical about it when it came out, but it was later confirmed to be true.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 7,093 Likes: 16,583
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 25, 2018 4:49:28 GMT
Jason's coverage of BTS development of MEA proved to be accurate, so I think most are giving him the benefit of the doubt for that reason. I assume that means more than just the same as all the other "journalists" who responded to Andromeda announcements and release info with "game is DOOMED y'all"? Because hell, I was doing that, and not even getting paid for it. But just being a pessimistic grump does not credibility build. Even moreso when someone uses the word "reboot" in a knowingly inaccurate way to drum up drama (or is not a skilled enough writer to know better? Either way, it doesn't speak well of him). Well, if we're being fair, the article ain't really all doom and gloom. Like yea, the pressure's on (to nobody's surprise) and almost everyone's working on and anxious over Anthem, but the article makes it a point a few times to mention that they don't think they're in trouble, as in: the game's in a messy state, like in case of Andromeda.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Spectre4hire
PSN: Spectre4hire
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Post by spectre4hire on Jan 25, 2018 5:04:13 GMT
Wow, I went from elated earlier today at the first true confirmation of DA4 being in the works to now confused and concerned about its future given the Kotaku article. Will try to take a wait and see approach since we still don't know too much, but am more bummed that we might not get DA4 until post 2020. And that's a long time to have to wait when I'm already craving a new DA game while replaying the series.
I don't know anything about making games, but I can't help but notice how these game cycles are getting longer and longer. I mean earlier this decade we had a stretch of what five years when we had gotten Mass Effect 2, 3, and Dragon Age 2. Now, it's taking 5-6 years just to make one Mass Effect or Dragon Age game. And in the case of Mass Effect: Andromeda its mostly agreed to not be as good as its predecessor trilogy, much to the disappointment and chagrin of fans who had been patiently waiting years for a new entry into their beloved series.
You're playing with my emotions.
Well done.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 25, 2018 5:06:44 GMT
I assume that means more than just the same as all the other "journalists" who responded to Andromeda announcements and release info with "game is DOOMED y'all"? Because hell, I was doing that, and not even getting paid for it. But just being a pessimistic grump does not credibility build. Even moreso when someone uses the word "reboot" in a knowingly inaccurate way to drum up drama (or is not a skilled enough writer to know better? Either way, it doesn't speak well of him). The Kotaku article on MEA's development got a lot of attention at the time, and covered aspects we hadn't heard before. There were quite a number of people skeptical about it when it came out, but it was later confirmed to be true. To be fair (again), the article about Andromeda was about after the game was launched, plus some time has passed, and the article has notably more depth, probably because of those two factors - also, we don't know what sources Jason has contacted now and then. Were these the same sources? Were/are they working on the game now? Something else? I'm not the sort of person who'd accept or dismiss something outright. I assume that the contacts he has are probably solid be solid, but they either couldn't or were unwilling to betray many details, considering that Schreier seemed to have had to use roundabout questions about state of the game (like the part where he used the very basic 'is this game's screwed' to 'game development is hard!' scale to ask the devs about the state of the game).
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Post by Fredward on Jan 25, 2018 5:07:05 GMT
I remember when people consistently discarded the news and rumors surrounding the lack of MEA's DLC, and they still wound up being correct. Sometimes unpleasant news actually winds up being true, who knew. It might miss some of the specifics but the general thrust of it's on point and people aren't just oozing out of the void to piss in the drinkwater for funsies.
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Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 25, 2018 5:13:18 GMT
I remember when people consistently discarded the news and rumors surrounding the lack of MEA's DLC, and they still wound up being correct. Sometimes unpleasant news actually winds up being true, who knew. It might miss some of the specifics but the general thrust of it's on point and people aren't just oozing out of the void to piss in the drinkwater for funsies. Well the general thrust seems to be 'Everyone's working on Anthem - the game's not going bad, but they're still anxious about its reception".
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 25, 2018 5:19:33 GMT
BioWare Doubles Down On Anthem As Pressure Mountskotaku.com/bioware-doubles-down-on-anthem-as-pressure-mounts-1822380989"The past year has been tumultuous for BioWare and involved some major changes to the studio. One was to reboot the fourth Dragon Age, which at the time was code-named Joplin, according to two sources. (There’s a running theme here—Anthem’s codename was Dylan.) The goal, those sources said, was to implement more “live” elements into the game, although two of those sources stressed that this next Dragon Age will still have a heavy focus on characters and story, whenever it does come out. It’s not clear what a “live” version of Dragon Age might look like, but EA has been public about its embrace of games as a service, and its lack of interest in releasing $60 games that do not have any sort of revenue tail, whether that means paid extra content, microtransactions, or something else." Cr*p, we're getting pandas in DA4, aren't we? I hope so!
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Post by Fredward on Jan 25, 2018 5:21:00 GMT
I remember when people consistently discarded the news and rumors surrounding the lack of MEA's DLC, and they still wound up being correct. Sometimes unpleasant news actually winds up being true, who knew. It might miss some of the specifics but the general thrust of it's on point and people aren't just oozing out of the void to piss in the drinkwater for funsies. Well the general thrust seems to be 'Everyone's working on Anthem - the game's not going bad, but they're still anxious about its reception". One of the thrusts, sure. And I wish them all the best with Anthem.
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
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Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Hrungr
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: Hrungr
Prime Posts: 18,258
Prime Likes: 65,767
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 25, 2018 5:21:13 GMT
The Kotaku article on MEA's development got a lot of attention at the time, and covered aspects we hadn't heard before. There were quite a number of people skeptical about it when it came out, but it was later confirmed to be true. To be fair (again), the article about Andromeda was about after the game was launched, plus some time has passed, and the article has notably more depth, probably because of those two factors - also, we don't know what sources Jason has contacted now and then. Were these the same sources? Were/are they working on the game now? Something else? I'm not the sort of person who'd accept or dismiss something outright. I assume that the contacts he has are probably solid be solid, but they either couldn't or were unwilling to betray many details, considering that Schreier seemed to have had to use roundabout questions about state of the game (like the part where he used the very basic 'is this game's screwed' to 'game development is hard!' scale to ask the devs about the state of the game). Oh I'm sure there's an argument to be made how some of the questions should have been framed, and wanting more clarity, but on the whole I've no reason to doubt the article...
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Post by river82 on Jan 25, 2018 5:23:34 GMT
I remember when people consistently discarded the news and rumors surrounding the lack of MEA's DLC, and they still wound up being correct. Sometimes unpleasant news actually winds up being true, who knew. It might miss some of the specifics but the general thrust of it's on point and people aren't just oozing out of the void to piss in the drinkwater for funsies. The Andromeda article was an in detail look at a disastrous development cycle. It was a fascinating read by a journalist who had a good reputation (from his reporting on Destiny) for accurate inside information. In comparison the couple of paragraphs on live services said very little that people already didn't know (EA is transitioning toward live services, we knew this already). Not all live services are "bad", like not all DLC is "bad", the devil is in the detail and the detail wasn't provided.
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Post by river82 on Jan 25, 2018 5:36:39 GMT
One of the key reasons the Andromeda article was an interesting read was the detail and research evident in it. In comparison this tidbit about live services is lightweight. Superficial. Creates more questions than it answers (to be fair we already knew EA was heading this way so the questions the article raises but does not answer have been floating around for a while now).
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Post by Fredward on Jan 25, 2018 5:40:00 GMT
I remember when people consistently discarded the news and rumors surrounding the lack of MEA's DLC, and they still wound up being correct. Sometimes unpleasant news actually winds up being true, who knew. It might miss some of the specifics but the general thrust of it's on point and people aren't just oozing out of the void to piss in the drinkwater for funsies. The Andromeda article was an in detail look at a disastrous development cycle. It was a fascinating read by a journalist who had a good reputation (from his reporting on Destiny) for accurate inside information. In comparison the couple of paragraphs on live services said very little that people already didn't know (EA is transitioning toward live services, we knew this already). Not all live services are "bad", like not all DLC is "bad", the devil is in the detail and the detail wasn't provided. Isn't it the same journalist...? And the news with MEA started with rumors and eventually homogenized into a detailed look of their disastrous development cycle. And yes, this is not evidence that the sky is falling. At the same time it's not good news. At best it's "It won't be as bad as you're expecting, I swear!" news for someone like me that really does not feel like any example of "live service" he has seen has contributed substantively enough to a game to justify its inclusion and result in a genuinely superior product, enriching the experience instead of being something onerous you need to wade through (which is still the best scenario cuz it's assuming it's not also actively detracting). I just wanted another SP GOTY set in glorious Minrathous, that's all. I don't understand the logic or the foresight that would make you gamble with the fate of a well regarded, established SP series when you're already gambling so much on something as risky and outside their wheelhouse as Anthem. The reasonable high risk ceiling of keeping DA nice and SP was that you wouldn't make AS MUCH money as you'd have made including a successful "live" element, whereas including a live element that's regarded as a disaster after a game that may or may not tank could eviscerate a series and possibly a studio. Which feels hyperbolic to say but MEA is a thing that happened.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Post by linksocarina on Jan 25, 2018 5:51:28 GMT
The Andromeda article was an in detail look at a disastrous development cycle. It was a fascinating read by a journalist who had a good reputation (from his reporting on Destiny) for accurate inside information. In comparison the couple of paragraphs on live services said very little that people already didn't know (EA is transitioning toward live services, we knew this already). Not all live services are "bad", like not all DLC is "bad", the devil is in the detail and the detail wasn't provided. Isn't it the same journalist...? And the news with MEA started with rumors and eventually homogenized into a detailed look of their disastrous development cycle. And yes, this is not evidence that the sky is falling. At the same time it's not good news. At best it's "It won't be as bad as you're expecting, I swear!" news for someone like me that really does not feel like any example of "live service" he has seen has contributed substantively enough to a game to justify its inclusion and result in a genuinely superior product, enriching the experience instead of being something onerous you need to wade through (which is still the best scenario cuz it's assuming it's not also actively detracting). I just wanted another SP GOTY set in glorious Minrathous, that's all. I don't understand the logic or the foresight that would make you gamble with the fate of a well regarded, established SP series when you're already gambling so much on something as risky and outside their wheelhouse as Anthem. The reasonable high risk ceiling of keeping DA nice and SP was that you wouldn't make AS MUCH money as you'd have made including a successful "live" element, whereas including a live element that's regarded as a disaster after a game that may or may not tank could eviscerate a series and possibly a studio. Which feels hyperbolic to say but MEA is a thing that happened. That is true...but most of those rumors were also shit like this: We shouldn't pretend that this is not a problem sometimes when we have non-experts and entertainers making analysis.
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Post by Fredward on Jan 25, 2018 6:06:59 GMT
What live service might entail that includes neither the MMO/lootbox combo nor whatever DA's equivalent of Laundry Stuff would be: "You're about to face the Qunari in an epic naval battle! Would you like to invite up to 5 friends to participate?" "You just completed your romance with Calpernia! Would you like to tell your friends on social media?" "You're about to come face to face with Fen'Harel in an emotional climax scene! Would you like to livestream your reaction (webcam required)?"
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Post by river82 on Jan 25, 2018 6:11:36 GMT
Isn't it the same journalist...? And the news with MEA started with rumors and eventually homogenized into a detailed look of their disastrous development cycle. And yes, this is not evidence that the sky is falling. At the same time it's not good news. At best it's "It won't be as bad as you're expecting, I swear!" news for someone like me that really does not feel like any example of "live service" he has seen has contributed substantively enough to a game to justify its inclusion and result in a genuinely superior product, enriching the experience instead of being something onerous you need to wade through (which is still the best scenario cuz it's assuming it's not also actively detracting). I just wanted another SP GOTY set in glorious Minrathous, that's all. I don't understand the logic or the foresight that would make you gamble with the fate of a well regarded, established SP series when you're already gambling so much on something as risky and outside their wheelhouse as Anthem. The reasonable high risk ceiling of keeping DA nice and SP was that you wouldn't make AS MUCH money as you'd have made including a successful "live" element, whereas including a live element that's regarded as a disaster after a game that may or may not tank could eviscerate a series and possibly a studio. Which feels hyperbolic to say but MEA is a thing that happened. Yeah it is the same journalist but he's written an article mostly about Anthem with a throwaway paragraph or two about DA:4 which wasn't really very insightful. Even the reboot thing isn't surprising, you could argue Inquisition was "rebooted" also when they sprung the concept of "open world" on Gaider. The most interesting things (by far) in the article refer to Anthem. MEA happened because the game was given to Bioware's back up team that had no experience, and some bright spark though "No Man's Sky, let's do that!" Even though creating any sort of storytelling experience in a procedurally generated world is pretty much impossible. But then they couldn't get it working so good job all round xD It's completely unrelated. The thing to keep in mind is that ever since Dragon Age 2, Bioware has kinda tried to make the series more like Mass Effect (in my opinion). Because of this I believe you're jumping to conclusions, live services could mean things that don't affect the single player gaming experience at all. Mass Effect had a multiplayer component that didn't detract from the single player experience, even though they were surprised at how popular the multiplayer was. A strong single player game was created and an additional live service ... thingy included in the package, remembering of course that Bioware pretty much invented the concept of lootboxes. And it still had a single player experience that was GOTY worthy. That Dragon Age is now shifting to that idea, well ... it's not like Anthem which was a game that emphasised multiplayer online right from the start. I view it more that while EA want people to enjoy the single player RPG experience, they want people to stick around a bit more and provide a bit more continual revenue. That won't happen though if Dragon Age 4 doesn't provide a solid single player experience. Until we learn more detail for what "live service elements" are (which includes additional single player story content, even though they may not mean this) it's hard to say exactly what direction they are heading in. Purely because "live service" is a vague term that encompasses so many things. Jade Dreamer is probably right when she said the article was a tad irresponsible, it just plays on people's fears, because it seems to me that many people jump to the worst possible conclusion. Usually I'm one of the people ripping into Bioware (because they make games so different to what I like, though they didn't use to) but I honestly don't see enough information present to draw any sort of conclusion. There's plenty of time to organise flaming pitchforks once more information hits the airwaves :3 You're being very generous calling this "not good news" btw. "News" tends to mean "new information" so ...
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2018 6:12:18 GMT
What live service might entail that's includes neither the MMO/lootbox combo nor whatever DA's equivalent of Laundry Stuff would be: "You're about to face the Qunari in an epic naval battle! Would you like to invite up to 5 friends to participate?" "You just completed your romance with Calpernia! Would you like to tell your friends on social media?" "You're about to come face to face with Fen'Harel in an emotional climax scene! Would you like to livestream your reaction (webcam required)?" [/a][/quote]
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Post by river82 on Jan 25, 2018 6:28:02 GMT
"It's definitely a thing inside of EA," he said, "they are generally pushing for more open-world games. And the reason is you can monetise them better. The words in there that were used are 'have them come back again and again' [not quite but that's the gist - see above]. Why do you care about that at EA? The reason you care about that is because microtransactions: buying card packs in the Mass Effect games, the multiplayer. It's the same reason we added card packs to Mass Effect 3: how do you get people to keep coming back to a thing instead of 'just' playing for 60 to 100 hours?
"You need to understand the amount of money that's at play with microtransactions. I'm not allowed to say the number but I can tell you that when Mass Effect 3 multiplayer came out, those card packs we were selling, the amount of money we made just off those card packs was so significant that's the reason Dragon Age has multiplayer, that's the reason other EA products started getting multiplayer that hadn't really had them before, because we nailed it and brought in a ton of money. It's repeatable income versus one-time income.
"I've seen people literally spend $15,000 on Mass Effect multiplayer cards."www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-10-23-manveer-heir-bioware-mass-effect-ea-monetisationThis is probably more in line with what Bioware are thinking. Monetising open world and multiplayer transactions rather than turning DA:4 into an MMORPG
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