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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 19:19:01 GMT
So everything is OK in the Milky Way? Great, why not move on from there? The Mass Effect trilogy was designed as just that, a trilogy. There's not going to be another game.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 19:22:22 GMT
Bioware chose to switch galaxies because they did not want to declare any particular ending choice in ME3 canon for the franchise Excuses. Still doesn't answer my question. What made it messed up? Mass relays being deactivated? That was fixed. Everyone's DNA being changed in synthesis? The Reapers came here to harvest us, so everyone now has Reaper DNA in them. Shepard becoming a Reaper in control? Can't think of anything else. So everything is OK in the Milky Way? Great, why not move on from there? How is making a choice to do something an excuse? Owning up to making a voluntary choice is the opposite of making an excuse. Saying you were forced to do something or that it was your only option IS an excuse. You're the one making up excuses because you want to force them into believing now that they have no option but to bring back Shepard and his/her ME2 companions. You're the one refusing to acknowledge that they have a variety of options ALL of which could still result in a great game.
They have stated outright that they wanted Shepard's story to be done with the ending of the Trilogy. They were pleased when they announced that they had worked out a way to end the Trilogy with various choices (before ME3's release and before anyone knew what those choices would be). After it became apparent that the fans were unhappy with the choices they were given, they STILL resisted making a canon singular ending and instead released the EC (which preserves all their original choices). They've repeatedly said that Shepard's story is done. They want the Trilogy (Shepard's story) to end with ME3. It's not an excuse. It's a choice they made and, so far, they have both owned up to that choice and stood behind it.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 18, 2019 19:27:24 GMT
There's not going to be another game. You might be more onto something than either one of us would like. How is making a choice to do something an excuse? Because you are only interested in getting what you want, regardless of what consequences that brings.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 19:37:07 GMT
There's not going to be another game. You might be more onto something than either one of us would like. How is making a choice to do something an excuse? Because you are only interested in getting what you want, regardless of what consequences that brings. You're the one only interested in getting what YOU want. I'm saying let them continue to make their own choices. In addition, you keep indicating that if you don't get want YOU want, they're doomed... which is basically "sour grapes." I have repeatedly said that any choice they make can still result in a great game. I'm not the one trying to limit their choices to only what I want.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 18, 2019 19:44:17 GMT
They did not want to set any signular version of the Trilogy as being canon. They already did that. How does Garrus know Kirrahe if he was never recruited in ME1? Why does Garrus mention the places Shepard explored in ME1 if he was never recruited in ME1? As insignificant as that is, it's still a choice that was ignored/overlooked/didn't care. If Bioware can do that, they can do the same for any of the other choices in the trilogy.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 18, 2019 20:01:38 GMT
But those things are problems. The only reason people don't complain much about them is that most people never encounter them, and most of those who do don't notice them. It's not at all the same thing as making a whole game out of that stuff.
I'm as pro-canonization as anyone on this board, but it's silly to pretend that there wouldn't be substantial costs to execute that strategy.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 18, 2019 20:10:54 GMT
It's a choice that Bioware chose to ignore/overlook/don't care. Doesn't matter how many never encountered that choice. It's still a choice a player can make in ME1.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 18, 2019 20:57:24 GMT
Or there was no actual choice and Bio simply forgot about those cases. Or Bio just found it too damn annoying to handle the edge cases.
I don't see how the existence of a couple of Mickey Mouse inconsistencies proves that UpUpAgain is wrong about Bio's design philosophy. I personally hope he is wrong since I think this is a bad design principle, but hope is not a substitute for evidence
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 22:50:42 GMT
You might be more onto something than either one of us would like. Well so far Bioware has kept their word in terms of Mass Effect 3 being the last game.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 22:52:18 GMT
They did not want to set any signular version of the Trilogy as being canon. They already did that. How does Garrus know Kirrahe if he was never recruited in ME1? Why does Garrus mention the places Shepard explored in ME1 if he was never recruited in ME1? As insignificant as that is, it's still a choice that was ignored/overlooked/didn't care. If Bioware can do that, they can do the same for any of the other choices in the trilogy. I would say overlooked... just like numerous other little breaks in the dialogue have been overlooked. There's no evidence to suggest they don't care, and unless you can prove that someone brought the break to their attention prior to the game releasing, you have no evidence that it was ignored either... and, unless you can show me a statement from Bioware that says they did that to expressly make those events canon, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest it was an intentional declaration of a canon event that Garrus was recruited in ME1. In fact, there is clear evidence to the contrary during ME2 in that they obviously intentionally inserted dialogue to cover the case of Garrus NOT being recruited in ME1 when Shepard first encounters him during the Archangel mission. In any event, Garrus could have possibly met Kirrahe through other means not even presented in the game. My Shepard often heads for the Citadel after Virmire, making it the drop off port for the Salarians I rescued. It's not inconceivable that Garrus overheard Kirrahe telling someone about the mission and, because it was related to Saren, decided to introduce himself and talk with Kirrahe about it further.
I've never said they can't declare a canon... I've said it is not my preference. I would prefer they continue on with ME:A. I AM entitled to have a preference.
Bioware have innumerable options... ANY of which has the potential to make a great game. I'll wait to see WHAT they do and how they do it (i.e. wait until after the game releases) before I declare whether or not I like the game. It's up to the critics (very few of whom I personally have any respect for particularly after their over-the-top meming for entertainment habits of late regarding several games, not just ME:A) to decide whether or not the game is well received. Until then, my crystal ball is as good as anyone else's... it's all just wild speculation. The fact remains, ME:A received average reviews on Metacrtic and none listed there are in their negative category. It was not the unmitigated disaster of a game that some people here like to keep saying it was. Similarly, the ME3 endings, IMO, are not the unmitigated travesty that other people here like to claim they were. They stated they had a preference for the synthesis ending, so if they do declare a canon ending, I'd like to see them use that one... i.e. continue to tell their story as they are envisioning it. However, that would probably seriously disappoint a few fans here that are clearly advocating for a particular canon ending.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 18, 2019 23:16:20 GMT
If they overlooked that choice, as you believe, then they can overlook other choices to make a sequel to ME3.
Regards to Garrus. If he's recruited in ME1, and then taken on Horizon in ME2, he will mention Ashley's last name, whereas if he's not recruited in ME1, he stays silent. Why couldn't that happen on Sur'Kesh? Have Vakarian stay silent, if he wasn't recruited in ME1?
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Post by garrusfan1 on Aug 18, 2019 23:23:25 GMT
If they overlooked that choice, as you believe, then they can overlook other choices to make a sequel to ME3. Regards to Garrus. If he's recruited in ME1, and then taken on Horizon in ME2, he will mention Ashley's last name, whereas if he's not recruited in ME1, he stays silent. Why couldn't that happen on Sur'Kesh? Have Vakarian stay silent, if he wasn't recruited in ME1? Are you suggesting they cannonize and ending? I agree with that. However did garrus have that dialouge but didn't have it trigger like with conrad saying you put a gun to his head even if you didn't? Or was it that they didn't write it at all. One is a technical issue and the other is done on purpose.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 23:59:11 GMT
If they overlooked that choice, as you believe, then they can overlook other choices to make a sequel to ME3. Regards to Garrus. If he's recruited in ME1, and then taken on Horizon in ME2, he will mention Ashley's last name, whereas if he's not recruited in ME1, he stays silent. Why couldn't that happen on Sur'Kesh? Have Vakarian stay silent, if he wasn't recruited in ME1? Saying that the "overlooked" the other ME3 endings to make one canon to continue the story there stretches the boundaries of believable. It is something that, at this point, would have to be done intentionally. On the Garrus issue, you simply have no evidence of intent so the two are not equal in theory or in practice. You're just trying to warp it to support your position on the matter... just as you're willing to accuse them of not caring based on no evidence. They can (i.e. are capable) of intentionally declaring a canon. I can't stop them if that's what they want to do. It would still not be my preference. I don't need to make up intent over an obvious oversight to be able to say they are capable of declaring any canon they want. Doing so, does not make your argument more convincing... it weakens it. The question is, again, would you accept them declaring a canon ending you don't like (like synthesis) or a canon romance (like Liara).. I doubt it would be your preference, right? So, are you willing to just let them do whatever THEY WANT to do and decide only after the game releases whether or not you like that game? I think we established that you wouldn't riot if they continued on with Andromeda, right? Do you believe they can (i.e. are capable of) making a canon decision that you don't like and still produce a great game for you? BTW, it is already intentional canon now that the Odsy Drive was invented, that SAM was invented, and that a group from the Milky Way traveled to the Andromeda Galaxy.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 0:14:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 0:35:09 GMT
I agree... as of right now, there is no canon ending to ME3 and they've intentionally made that decision. They would have to reverse that decision in order to make a canon ending to ME3. It's not that they can't do (i.e. aren't capable of doing) that though. It's an option they do have.
ME:A though was introduced into the lore; and in so far as the places where it did not allow the players a choice, its events are already canon in the MEU.
I find it somewhat an oxymoron that some fans want them to make a canon ending to ME3 and, in the same breath, want to deny ME:A's existence (essentially denying Bioware their right to make canon)... going so far as to declare the next ME game to be ME4 and not ME5.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 0:53:42 GMT
Some people just can't bare the thought of a game without Shepard or their crew.
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Post by Phantom on Aug 19, 2019 1:27:02 GMT
Some people just can't bare the thought of a game without Shepard or their crew. Well I can think of at least 8 or more games without Shepard or Ryder.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 19, 2019 11:38:57 GMT
You're the one only interested in getting what YOU want If by getting what I want, you mean Bioware surviving, then yes. I'm saying let them continue to make their own choices Like handing a gun to a suicidal person. you keep indicating that if you don't get want YOU want, they're doomed I wasn't preaching self preservation before Andromeda and Anthem. which is basically "sour grapes." Not when EA is concerned. I have repeatedly said that any choice they make can still result in a great game Which isn't enough. I'm not the one trying to limit their choices to only what I want. Yes, you are.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 19, 2019 11:46:32 GMT
Well so far Bioware has kept their word in terms of Mass Effect 3 being the last game. In more ways than one.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 19, 2019 12:57:27 GMT
If they overlooked that choice, as you believe, then they can overlook other choices to make a sequel to ME3. Regards to Garrus. If he's recruited in ME1, and then taken on Horizon in ME2, he will mention Ashley's last name, whereas if he's not recruited in ME1, he stays silent. Why couldn't that happen on Sur'Kesh? Have Vakarian stay silent, if he wasn't recruited in ME1? As stated by others it was an oversight.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 19, 2019 12:58:14 GMT
And it should stay that way.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 13:13:34 GMT
You're the one only interested in getting what YOU want If by getting what I want, you mean Bioware surviving, then yes. I'm saying let them continue to make their own choices Like handing a gun to a suicidal person. you keep indicating that if you don't get want YOU want, they're doomed I wasn't preaching self preservation before Andromeda and Anthem. which is basically "sour grapes." Not when EA is concerned. I have repeatedly said that any choice they make can still result in a great game Which isn't enough. I'm not the one trying to limit their choices to only what I want. Yes, you are. If all this is your best effort to come back on what I posted, you're clearly running out of ammo. Shrug.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 19, 2019 13:44:47 GMT
If all this is your best effort to come back on what I posted, you're clearly running out of ammo. Shrug. We've had this argument, oof, I didn't even intend to keep track, but it's definitely more than thrice. You can go back, look at the same arguments and come to the same conclusion of you just saying no and expecting reality to bow to your will. And when I argue that, you're going to tell me again that it upsets your son.
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Post by Ascend on Aug 19, 2019 15:19:03 GMT
This is the way I see it;
Easiest and most acceptable option: Andromeda 2
Good alternative: Remaster of the trilogy
Risky but still good option: Remake of the trilogy
Cliché option: Alternate parallel universe sequel to ME1, ME2 or ME3
Terrible option: Sequel to canonized ending of ME3
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 19, 2019 15:28:10 GMT
This is the way I see it; Easiest and most acceptable option: Andromeda 2 Good alternative: Remaster of the trilogy Risky but still good option: Remake of the trilogy Cliché option: Alternate parallel universe sequel to ME1, ME2 or ME3 Terrible option: Sequel to canonized ending of ME3 Under what criteria?
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