CosmicGnosis
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Post by CosmicGnosis on Jan 26, 2018 8:17:50 GMT
My canonical choices are the following:
In Hushed Whispers - Free mages Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts - Reconcile Celene and Briala Here Lies the Abyss - Sacrifice Stroud Divine Election - Leliana
But now I've started to question most of these choices.
I really do enjoy exposing all the major players during Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts and forcing a truce, and I've learned some disturbing things about Celene and Briala's screwed up relationship. Is reconciling them truly a good idea, despite the epilogue's implications? Will the elves truly benefit from this arrangement, or will Celene ensnare Briala in some kind of political trap?
And what about Hawke vs. Stroud? Is it really a good idea to leave the Grey Warden behind? It seems to me that the Grey Wardens should have their leader survive so that he can guide them through whatever chaos is going on at their HQ. Exactly how would Hawke fulfill this role better than an actual Grey Warden leader?
I still want Leliana to be the Divine, but...
Calpernia is better than Samson, at least from what I've seen of her. Everything about Calpernia and Corypheus is more interesting than Samson. But I want to save the mages in my canon, not the templars. And saving the templars will make getting Leliana elected more difficult. And I don't really want Cassandra to be elected because she's my romance option, and Vivienne definitely doesn't have my support.
What do you all think?
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 26, 2018 8:25:57 GMT
Which version of Leliana is Divine?
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CosmicGnosis
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Post by CosmicGnosis on Jan 26, 2018 8:31:01 GMT
Which version of Leliana is Divine? "Inspired."
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Post by tacsear on Jan 26, 2018 8:38:05 GMT
I conscript the Templars and make Leliana Divine
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Jan 26, 2018 8:46:25 GMT
Yeah i never reconcile Celene and Briala. I'd prefer the inquisitor to actively rather than passively be able to be rid of Celene.
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Post by Gileadan on Jan 26, 2018 8:51:10 GMT
I allied with the Templars (they actively fight the corruption in their ranks instead of just mumbling and shuffling their feet like the mages), had Cassandra reform the Seekers and also made her Divine. In Morrigan's end game narration this is explicitly described as "a golden age", so I could pat my shoulder and say "job well done".
I force cooperation between Celene, Briala and Gaspard. They're awful people, and the sentence is more time spent in each other's company. Enjoy, you jerks.
I also leave Stroud behind. It might be a better way to go than waiting for the Calling.
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CosmicGnosis
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Post by CosmicGnosis on Jan 26, 2018 9:22:50 GMT
I want to be clear that I like both Samson and Calpernia. But I do find her story to be more fascinating, especially since she actually provides some more insight into Corypheus. I wish I could see her in a mage-saving playthrough. I usually like the idea of limiting content to certain paths, but I think this particular case was taken too far. We should have encountered, at least once, the leaders of the Venatori and Red Templars no matter which faction we chose to save. It also seems that Calpernia outranks Samson; the Red Templars are just shock troops for Corypheus' army. So it's really strange that she has absolutely no presence if you save the mages.
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blighted
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Post by blighted on Jan 26, 2018 9:56:21 GMT
In Hushed Whispers/Divine Election - I feel you on this as I like both Calpernia and Ser Barris, but never go with the templars. Definitely go with the mages if you want to make Leliana Divine without mods. As for Calpernia, I wouldn't be surprised if she makes somewhat of an appearance in Tevinter if she's still alive in your worldstate.
Wicked Eyes Wicked Hearts - The way that I see it... Their relationship has never been a healthy one and Celene has proven time and time again that she will put herself and human nobility before the elves and Briala. Can she be trusted to not do it again? I feel like the public truce is one of the best choices for Briala, as it doesn't make her the main threat and she is still free to conspire and help out her people. This choice just means she's not as loyal to the Inquisition as she is if you make her rule though Gaspard.
Here Lies the Abyss - Cole has strongly hinted that Hawke would survive if they are the one left behind in the Fade, but we don't know about the warden. Perhaps they would survive too?
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simit
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Post by simit on Jan 26, 2018 10:03:14 GMT
Doesn't calpernia survive even if you fight her? It been awhile tbh
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 26, 2018 10:06:05 GMT
I got Leliana as Divine when I disbanded the Templar Order and conscripted the survivors, with Briala in power in Orlais (I haven't tried getting this with other options). I think it is only difficult if you ally with the Templars but particularly if Celene survives. If you are pro-mage disbanding the Templars and getting Leliana as Divine is actually a good path to take. Leliana ends the Circle system regardless and the Chantry no longer have any soldiers serving them on a lyrium leash. Fiona dies on this path so she is no longer the leader of the free mages. That for me was a big plus. It really annoyed me on the mage path that I couldn't judge her for her actions or remove her from leadership.
It was far harder getting Leliana as Divine on the conscripted mages path. It really irked me that this was seen as though I supported the old Circle system and I was advocating returning to it. After the first run, when I allied with the mages, I didn't like the fact that Fiona stayed as their leader. Whilst this still happens when you conscript them, at least I felt she wasn't really leading them any more but I was. At the end the conscripted mages form the Bright Hand, an exemplary order of mages who are a shinning example of what mages should be, so it made me feel as though my leadership had been worthwhile. (Also in the epilogue at the end of Trespasser it would seem the Bright Hand are the most confident group of mages no matter who is Divine) However, it would seem if you conscript the mages, don't banish the Wardens and reconcile Celene and Briala then you are virtually guaranteed to get Vivienne as Divine even if you vote for Cassandra. I was horrified when this happened to me as it was totally unexpected.
The whole Grey Warden plot was a mess but Stroud has to be near his true Calling so he wouldn't be round for long. It was also a bit daft that if you saved him so he could lead the Orlesian Wardens, he prompted leaves for Weishauppt, so they are leaderless anyway. So I really couldn't justify sparing him over Hawke. The idea that Hawke was responsible for Corypheus was also ridiculous. That lay squarely with the Grey Wardens both in the past and the present. Better have someone independent of the organisation, like Hawke, who had both suffered from their actions and seen the results on other people, to make representation to the leadership about it, particularly as Hawke is someone with status among the civilian population.
As for the Orlesian situation. It depends if you have read the book Masked Empire how you feel about Celene and Briala being reconciled. The game doesn't go into the reasons for this nearly enough but there is enough hidden meaning in Briala's reaction to Celene when you do so, that makes me think it will not end well for either person or the elves. Having read the book, I don't really like any of the characters enough that I want any of them to be in control, so making them work together seemed like a fitting punishment for them all, although as usual the ordinary elves probably come off worst in the situation. I definitely don't think whatever you decide to do is going to last beyond the Inquisitor being in a position of power, so eventually it is likely to be business as usual. At least if Leliana is Divine she will try to help improve things for the elves generally and restores the Canticle of Shartan to the Chant, so that seems more important to their future than who is in charge of Orlais.
Calpernia is a far more interesting story than Samson. You also get more character development for Corypheus that way too. I agree that I don't think the stories behind the lieutenants should have been mutually exclusive. It was probably thought to make for greater replay value but I'd rather have an integrated story that makes the overall experience more cohesive and interesting.
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Post by wickedcool on Jan 26, 2018 16:13:08 GMT
I saved the Templars and Barris-Barris is a true knight and he adds more to the game than Fiona. I like the new trespasser mission that you only get with this choice plus barrier amulet along with fade bonuses I always save Celene, reconcile with briala, but spare the assassin for the bonus item . The book influenced my decision and adds to the solas activate the artifacts mission in hinterlands I spare hawke although I don’t have allistair as warden (that one would crush me). I’m praying we get answers on weeishauprt. Does Cole actually think hawke survives (it always feels the spider wins before we exit the fade) Devine is always viv do to selfish reasons of keeping cass around
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2018 17:43:28 GMT
My canonical choices are the following: In Hushed Whispers - Free mages Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts - Reconcile Celene and Briala Here Lies the Abyss - Sacrifice Stroud Divine Election - Leliana But now I've started to question most of these choices. I really do enjoy exposing all the major players during Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts and forcing a truce, and I've learned some disturbing things about Celene and Briala's screwed up relationship. Is reconciling them truly a good idea, despite the epilogue's implications? Will the elves truly benefit from this arrangement, or will Celene ensnare Briala in some kind of political trap? And what about Hawke vs. Stroud? Is it really a good idea to leave the Grey Warden behind? It seems to me that the Grey Wardens should have their leader survive so that he can guide them through whatever chaos is going on at their HQ. Exactly how would Hawke fulfill this role better than an actual Grey Warden leader? I still want Leliana to be the Divine, but... Calpernia is better than Samson, at least from what I've seen of her. Everything about Calpernia and Corypheus is more interesting than Samson. But I want to save the mages in my canon, not the templars. And saving the templars will make getting Leliana elected more difficult. And I don't really want Cassandra to be elected because she's my romance option, and Vivienne definitely doesn't have my support. What do you all think? Unfortunately, you will have years to work out the details. I think you make your particular choices because you prefer diplomacy over conflict, and that is probably a good thing. It's easy to over think all the options, but if you're not role playing and just trying to make the "right" decisions there probably aren't any right decisions, just popular ones. Make the choices that make you happy and if it doesn't turn out the way you like in the next game...well, that is what the Keep is for. I have a feeling that events are going to happen in the next game that will make any decisions you made in this game irrelevant. Plus, we will probably be in the north anyway, so whatever you hear about the south will be in rumors and news.
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CosmicGnosis
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Post by CosmicGnosis on Jan 26, 2018 20:53:31 GMT
Would you say that the truce, which requires you to reveal everything you know to Celene, Gaspard, and Briala, is a less thoughtful way to play the Game than some of the other choices? I wonder about this because of the way BioWare designed the consequences:
1. You don't receive a War Table mission from any of the leaders if you force the truce. In all other cases, the leader gives you a War Table mission that provides a reward. But in the case of the truce, it seems that they all resent you. The epilogue also says that the war basically resumes later.
2. Amulets of Power are rare, especially after a patch that removed most of them for some reason. Notably, reconciling Celene and Briala leads to a War Table mission that gives you an Amulet of Power. This is the best reward that you can get from any of the leaders, which suggests that reconciliation is the optimal choice.
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boxofscreaming
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Post by boxofscreaming on Jan 26, 2018 21:59:51 GMT
I forced Celene, Gaspard and Briala into a truce. It won't last, but since when is it my business who rules Orlais?
I sided with the mages. We've got a big magical anomaly to deal with, I need magic, not some blokes in armour. Also, my Inquisitor knows all too well what the Templars are about.
I saved Hawke because Hawke is great and Varric will be sad if I don't.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jan 26, 2018 22:07:08 GMT
Stroud isn’t even the Warden-Commander. You really going to sacrifice Hawke so the Wardens don’t have to deal with an Human Resources headache? Kill that moustachioed bastard!
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Post by Lazarillo on Jan 26, 2018 23:37:35 GMT
Is it really a good idea to leave the Grey Warden behind? It seems to me that the Grey Wardens should have their leader survive so that he can guide them through whatever chaos is going on at their HQ. Not that Stroud is their leader anyway (as has been pointed out), but really, I mean, the last time the Gray Wardens operated without a person formally in an officer position, they defeated a Blight in record time, with a record minimum number of actual Wardens needed.
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Tittus
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Post by Tittus on Jan 27, 2018 0:05:29 GMT
At the end the conscripted mages form the Bright Hand, an exemplary order of mages who are a shinning example of what mages should be, so it made me feel as though my leadership had been worthwhile. (Also in the epilogue at the end of Trespasser it would seem the Bright Hand are the most confident group of mages no matter who is Divine) However, it would seem if you conscript the mages, don't banish the Wardens and reconcile Celene and Briala then you are virtually guaranteed to get Vivienne as Divine even if you vote for Cassandra. Yes. It's impossible in game to get Leliana'as divine with those conditions: conscript the mages, Celene and Briala reconciled, and recruit Vivienne. But you can cheat on the tapestry, as it allows this outcome.
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Post by inquisitor007 on Jan 27, 2018 0:36:02 GMT
My canonical choices are the following: In Hushed Whispers - Free mages Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts - Reconcile Celene and Briala Here Lies the Abyss - Sacrifice Stroud Divine Election - Leliana There's nothing wrong with any of these choices. Free mages. Sure, help the underdog. Wicked Hearts. Reconcile. The world needs love. Abyss. Sacrifice Stroud? Who cares about Stroud. Divine election. I can't see Cassandra enjoying it and Vivienne is too damn power hungry.
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Post by Lazarillo on Jan 27, 2018 0:41:13 GMT
Divine election. I can't see Cassandra enjoying it and Vivienne is too damn power hungry. Vivienne is basically the same as Bhelen from Origins. She wants power for selfish reasons, but what she uses that power for does far more to help the status of Mages, at least, than anyone else. Cassandra does more to help the poor and downtrodden, but does little to fight against the Chantry's rules. And Leliana basically just ignores everybody and thinks she can do whatever she wants just by decreeing it so.
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Post by duskwanderer on Jan 27, 2018 0:42:10 GMT
I recruit the Templars. Lore-wise, it makes sense: The Breach is a Fade tear, just one on a huge scale. There are ways to mend rifts in the Fade, We know demons can do it, and we know templars can do it. Thus having them on my side made sense. How were the mages supposed to help? Drop magic on the Anchor like filling a bucket with water? Didn't make much sense to me.
I place Gaspard alone on the throne. I would have liked the idea of making him ally with Briala, but they can only work together through blackmail, and that's not stable. Otherwise, Celene is incompetent, and Briala isn't important.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 27, 2018 2:18:11 GMT
Divine election. I can't see Cassandra enjoying it and Vivienne is too damn power hungry. Vivienne is basically the same as Bhelen from Origins. She wants power for selfish reasons, but what she uses that power for does far more to help the status of Mages, at least, than anyone else. Cassandra does more to help the poor and downtrodden, but does little to fight against the Chantry's rules. And Leliana basically just ignores everybody and thinks she can do whatever she wants just by decreeing it so. Vivienne a close-minded, damaged power-hungry politician full of fears... She's a real danger in a high position. She's the worst. Not even a Behlen, she doesn't want any reform, just want to use the Mages and the Templars too. And even unbelievable: she's a mage, not even know anything about the Chantry. Cassandra at least not corrupt as Vivienne, and doesn't like so much the Game. And Leliana is the left hand of Divine. She's an heir, just as Cassandra. And never ever better time for the radical changes than after a world crisis. Not mentioned: Leliana and Cassandra will help each other.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 27, 2018 2:21:19 GMT
I recruit the Templars. Lore-wise, it makes sense: The Breach is a Fade tear, just one on a huge scale. There are ways to mend rifts in the Fade, We know demons can do it, and we know templars can do it. Thus having them on my side made sense. How were the mages supposed to help? Drop magic on the Anchor like filling a bucket with water? Didn't make much sense to me. I place Gaspard alone on the throne. I would have liked the idea of making him ally with Briala, but they can only work together through blackmail, and that's not stable. Otherwise, Celene is incompetent, and Briala isn't important. The mages have many anti-magic spells and know more about the Fade than the Templars.
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Post by jnericsonx on Jan 27, 2018 4:16:27 GMT
The lead up to picking mages is a lot more, vs starting up templars, but this time, I finally did pick templars. I keep forgetting that from the get-go you kinda have to "groom" a choice for Divine.
Unless I decide to make up a whole history again in the Keep, it's always Hawke or Stroud, and I always sacrifice Stroud. Hearing Brian Bloom's heartbreaking grief when Hawke is lost kills me. EVERY DA2 playthrough I did, Varric was always Hawke's BFF, it'd be like having to kill off Han Solo or Chewie, and JJ Abrams and RA Salvatore already did those thank you very much.
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Post by Fredward on Jan 27, 2018 5:49:09 GMT
I make choices for maximum future drama/pathos, the only one I'm currently doubting is having my Solavellan elf drink from the Well but that's just because it seems like it should be Morrigan's thing yah know? Her OGB son even called her the inheritor or whatever, the devs definitely have further plans for her and it kinda feels like I'm stealing her thunder.
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Post by duckley on Jan 27, 2018 17:02:36 GMT
I always try to have Cass as Divine and have never had an Orlesian twosome or threesome for that matter. Next playthrough I may try that one! \
Can anyone tell me about which Leliana is which type of Divine, and what decisions do you have tomake to get Leliana to be one way or the other?
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