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Post by vertigomez on Jan 29, 2018 3:49:01 GMT
Speaking of plot choices, does anyone know why Varric doesn't narrate the DAI stuff (except for the prologue) in the Keep? Have they just not recorded/animated it yet or am I missing something?
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Post by phoray on Jan 29, 2018 4:20:40 GMT
And he earned bonus points with me for hating the Game Then plays it constantly anyway, bending the rules of his Chevelier honor when it suits him. He wins no points with me for paying verbal lip service to hating a thing he rolls in like a pig in mud
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Post by phoray on Jan 29, 2018 4:21:52 GMT
Speaking of plot choices, does anyone know why Varric doesn't narrate the DAI stuff (except for the prologue) in the Keep? Have they just not recorded/animated it yet or am I missing something? I think it was a sign that they were phasing him out as the narrator... which I'm fine with. Hawke's best friend, excellent. Tag along ex prisoner who worships you kinda sorta in his head...creepy or at least kinda pathetic?
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 29, 2018 4:37:19 GMT
Speaking of plot choices, does anyone know why Varric doesn't narrate the DAI stuff (except for the prologue) in the Keep? Have they just not recorded/animated it yet or am I missing something? I think it was a sign that they were phasing him out as the narrator... which I'm fine with. Hawke's best friend, excellent. Tag along ex prisoner who worships you kinda sorta in his head...creepy or at least kinda pathetic? That makes sense! I'm fine with a new narrator (though.... he did do the prologue, so.. I don't know when someone else would come in), I just wish they'd get on it. I want to hear my Inquisitor's story.
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Post by phoray on Jan 29, 2018 4:40:29 GMT
I think it was a sign that they were phasing him out as the narrator... which I'm fine with. Hawke's best friend, excellent. Tag along ex prisoner who worships you kinda sorta in his head...creepy or at least kinda pathetic? That makes sense! I'm fine with a new narrator (though.... he did do the prologue, so.. I don't know when someone else would come in), I just wish they'd get on it. I want to hear my Inquisitor's story. Does Claudia Black at the end not count?
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Jan 29, 2018 4:43:06 GMT
That makes sense! I'm fine with a new narrator (though.... he did do the prologue, so.. I don't know when someone else would come in), I just wish they'd get on it. I want to hear my Inquisitor's story. Does Claudia Black at the end not count?
Not sure who was doing voice direction/editing for the main game epilogue but she sounded terrible doing that voice over. Emphasis in weird places, etc. I liked the silent ones for Trespasser way more.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Jan 29, 2018 4:44:12 GMT
I'm more or less fine with the choices I made. In Hushed Whispers - Conscripted the Mages. There's no way I was going to leave them off the hook for betraying Arl Teagan to Tevinter. I'm Pro-Mage to the extreme, but Fiona is a colossal idiot who nearly doomed the rebellion. While its unfortunate we couldn't just judge her for her poor choices, the mages as a whole need to be punished for not even trying to stop the Vints. After dealing with Coryshits and atoning for their passive stupidity they can be free. Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts - Blackmail all of them. Sera was right. These people all suck. Celene is a flip-flopping politician that burned down an entire alienage because she was afraid. Sure, she has good intentions and is probably the leader Orlais needs, but her hypocrisy is staggering. Gaspard is a hypocrite as well and perhaps even a bigger one than Celene. For all his talk of hating the Game and being honorable, he still pulls the same murderous Machiavellian bullshit as Celene. The fact that he's a racist warhawk and a chevalier whose almost definitely drunkenly murdered defense-less elves, doesn't make me admire him either. I want to like and support Briala but her rebellion is doomed without the Inquisition or any other form of support. She's like the Anti-Sera. Has a lot of support from the city elves, but seemingly none among the human peasantry, which is insane to me. Actually, know that I think about it, Sera is properly in a better position to actually rebel aganist the Orlesian nobility. The Red Jennies at least have the support of city elves and human peasants, wheres Briala only has the former. Here Lies the Abyss - Sacrifice Stroud. I makes more sense to sacrifice Hawke and have someone reliable like Stroud take the Wardens back to Weisshapt, but Hawke dying would make Varric cry and Stroud is kind of boring anyways. Divine Election - Steeled Leliana. Yeah, I'm not a fan of her liberal use of the murderknife but those Chantry sisters were the ones who did start off the rebellion in the first place and she was ultimately just defending herself. Besides, the Chantry actually becoming a charitable organization and opening itself up to other races and men seems like the type of positive change the religion desperately needs. Perhaps, Fiona committed a mistake, but I hate the collective punishment. (And not even want to punish Fiona, but this is another question.) To say to people, who were prisoners in their whole life innocently, "you are our prisoners" just seems evil. Not mentioned, now, again innocently, for Fiona's mistake. First, they were imprisoned for some idiot ancient Magisters' 1000 years old sin, now, because their leader misled by someone else. This is just not righteous. No matter, later they can be free. The principle is important. Of course, would be nice to recruit them, as a part of the Inquisition, but not as prisoners. They could have not supported what Fiona was doing and actively protected Teagan, the man who sheltered them in his castle and village when he could have just ignored them. But they didn't and just went with it and allowed him to be kicked out of their castle by a hostile power. To me, that's an act worthy of punishment and it doesn't matter that mages have been screwed over historically. They fucked up and need to repay their debt to society. That's different from the Circles where a mage is criminalized just for having magic but hasn't actually done anything dangerous or traitorous. Backstabbing allies to save your own skin is definitely dangerous and traitorous. Honestly, what the mages did was a huge deal and their lucky the Fereldens just asked them all to leave with the Inquisition.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 29, 2018 4:53:32 GMT
That makes sense! I'm fine with a new narrator (though.... he did do the prologue, so.. I don't know when someone else would come in), I just wish they'd get on it. I want to hear my Inquisitor's story. Does Claudia Black at the end not count? Ah, I forgot about that. But still, I want to hear the Keep version.... so I can flow seamlessly between DAO, DA2, and DAI... reveling in my series of bad decisions.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 29, 2018 4:58:43 GMT
Perhaps, Fiona committed a mistake, but I hate the collective punishment. (And not even want to punish Fiona, but this is another question.) To say to people, who were prisoners in their whole life innocently, "you are our prisoners" just seems evil. Not mentioned, now, again innocently, for Fiona's mistake. First, they were imprisoned for some idiot ancient Magisters' 1000 years old sin, now, because their leader misled by someone else. This is just not righteous. No matter, later they can be free. The principle is important. Of course, would be nice to recruit them, as a part of the Inquisition, but not as prisoners. They could have not supported what Fiona was doing and actively protected Teagan, the man who sheltered them in his castle and village when he could have just ignored them. But they didn't and just went with it and allowed him to be kicked out of their castle by a hostile power. To me, that's an act worthy of punishment and it doesn't matter that mages have been screwed over historically. They fucked up and need to repay their debt to society. That's different from the Circles where a mage is criminalized just for having magic but hasn't actually done anything dangerous or traitorous. Backstabbing allies to save your own skin is definitely dangerous and traitorous. Honestly, what the mages did was a huge deal and their lucky the Fereldens just asked them all to leave with the Inquisition. I'll always be salty that there's no middle ground between ~LE HONORED ALLIES~ and AUUGH PRISONERS!!1 with the mages. How about, "You're on loose sand with me, consider this your probation. Do not fuck up. Also, Fiona is fired."
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Post by CosmicGnosis on Jan 29, 2018 5:00:55 GMT
Why do so many people easily forget about the time magic? Without the Inquisition's intervention, there's no telling how screwed up the mages' perception of events would be. Fiona actually approached the Inquisition almost immediately after its formation. But then the Venatori showed up and altered both her and the rebel mages' personal timelines, to the point that Fiona didn't realize that she ever made an offer to the Inquisition. So if you choose to save the Templars, any number of crazy things could have happened to the mages to convince them to side with the Venatori. Strategic alteration of events combined with illusory threats and the occasional blood magic could have completely ensnared the mages in a trap that was almost impossible for them to perceive.
But nope, Fiona's just an idiot, right?
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Jan 29, 2018 7:59:53 GMT
Why do so many people easily forget about the time magic? Without the Inquisition's intervention, there's no telling how screwed up the mages' perception of events would be. Fiona actually approached the Inquisition almost immediately after its formation. But then the Venatori showed up and altered both her and the rebel mages' personal timelines, to the point that Fiona didn't realize that she ever made an offer to the Inquisition. So if you choose to save the Templars, any number of crazy things could have happened to the mages to convince them to side with the Venatori. Strategic alteration of events combined with illusory threats and the occasional blood magic could have completely ensnared the mages in a trap that was almost impossible for them to perceive. But nope, Fiona's just an idiot, right? Sure, that could have happened. But since the game tells us nothing to support that argument it can't be substantiated. When we actually go to Redcliffe we see that Fiona joined up with Alexius, and sold out Teagan, because she thought a Templar army was coming. Selling out the people that helped you, making an enemy of an entire kingdom, allowing your Tranquil to be murdered and turned into telescopes and making common people's perceptions of mages even worse is indeed an idiot move and huge fuck up on Fiona's part.
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First of the Dalish
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Pokemario on Jan 29, 2018 17:47:10 GMT
He he. Went through this some months ago. Ended up changing everything I wasn't happy with, even if it led to a worse outcome (for example: exiled the Wardens, didn't ally with Abelas).
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Post by yeah rip on Jan 29, 2018 20:04:58 GMT
Am I late for Fiona bashing? Darn. I'll just add that when some of her people split off to wreak havok in the Hinterlands, she "washed her hands of them". Slow clap. I was always pro-Circle and anti-rebellion, but I feel bad for the rebels, with a leader like that. And he earned bonus points with me for hating the Game Then plays it constantly anyway, bending the rules of his Chevelier honor when it suits him. He wins no points with me for paying verbal lip service to hating a thing he rolls in like a pig in mud He said up front that he hates the game, but has to play it anyway. This is Orlais, he wouldn't have survived if he didn't play. It's the same for the inquisition - no matter how quizzy feels about it, s/he still has to play it to some extent to get the best results, at least when dealing with Orlais.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jan 30, 2018 9:51:04 GMT
In Hushed Whispers - Conscript Mages. Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts - Reconcile Celene and Briala Here Lies the Abyss - Sacrifice Hawke. Divine Election - I can't remember... woops. I think Leliana? Whatever. I think I wanted Cassandra. I don't really regret much. Conscripting mages made them unhappy. K. They should suck it up. So much pouting and I really wanted more to tell them that its all temporary but there's a big fight and they're just a part of it now. Reconciliation was just the pretty scene I wanted to see. I'm of both minds of 'screw Orlesian politics' and 'okay I'll work it gladly enough while I'm here though'. I don't care if Orlais blows up in DA4 from my choice somehow - I like what I got to see and I worked the place to make it happen. Sacrifice Hawke - I'm just rolling the dice to hope for more Hawke in future games where he 'dies' and is 'reborn' from the 'abyss' as a mega spirit person dragon transforming thing. I don't know how, I just think anything could happen there, and death isn't the end, and there's cool symbolism. I just think it would mirror his early scene with Flemeth is all. Election, I just didn't want Vivi in power. I don't even hate her, or really hate her with power. I am actually taking it out on the writers for not having something more interesting and core-plot important for her beyond this election .
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Post by SwobyJ on Jan 30, 2018 20:28:47 GMT
The Templar quest is more exciting. Barris is better and more involved than Fiona Calpernia is better than that junkie guy Dorian and Cole's entrances into the organization makes more sense
All these alone make the Templars a far better choice than the mages. I never cared for Wicked Eyes and Hearts. but I usually have Celene killed and Briala on a leash I also send Shroud to his death. Much better than what happens during a Calling. It feels like I'm sparing him and even worse fate. Divine- Vivienne. She's better for the mages, adds realistic drama and tension, and is the radical change the Chantry needs without going into la la land (like Leliana) Cassandra is a warrior so I let her have her Seekers. She's also a bit too much of the same old same old. Leliana always turns out crazy for me, but even nice I just dislike an "everything is happy cause I say so" ending. Vivienne the worst, in every viewpoint. Leliana's not a flower child: She knows the Game, but not in love with the Game. Vivienne more bloodthirsty than steeled Leliana. And Leliana and Cassandra help each other. Leliana's not crazy, but Vivienne's very dangerous. I would never give power such a person. Cassandra at least not corrupt. Vivienne very conservative, she doesn't want any change, except that she, a mage will be Divine. But she wants everything back just as before was: prison-Circles, Templars in lyrium lash, as puppets. And she's the worst propaganda against the mages: a mage, who imprisoned her fellows, because doesn't believe, they can live freely. And Cassandra cares about people, just as Leliana, Vivienne cares about herself. The Chantry doesn't need such a person. The best thing about Vivienne as Divine is that she establishes political precedent. While I don't love the idealization people have of that concept (breaking glass ceiling, first x-property y-role, etc), it does matter. But of course, all of Vivienne's other aspects really opens this up to backlash. So its easiest to imagine for her that people will hate/resent/grudgingly accept her as Divine, cultural backlash occurs, but later on a nicer mage comes up and is welcomed a lot more (even more than with Leliana and Cassandra results) and considered at least better than that last mage Divine. Acclimatization. I'm actually pretty sure we'll see a future Dragon Age with a generally more accepted and utterly canonical (as in, always set) mage as Divine, and each of the Divine options and their good to bad outcomes only sets that stage. So I think Vivienne Divine is politically useful. Just as the Inquisitor is politically useful to Vivienne. That's the whole gist with her.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jan 30, 2018 20:42:47 GMT
Meh, Vivienne adds excitement and the mages that side with her end up more powerful as a result, something they need more than anything cause power ensures long-term freedom. I also think you take everything Vivienne says at face value. She's no monster, she does care about the mages but chooses not to wear rose-colored glasses about them. I think her approach is more pragmatic. Leliana is a bit too chaotic and only works cause the writers says it does. But to each his own.
IMO, I wouldn't want mages anywhere near a giant magic hole in the sky that summons demons. Templars dispel magic, kills demons, crazed mages, and actually know how to form an army and fight if need be. Mages fling more magic at magical problems, summons demons, likely to go crazy, and hide when the poop hits the fan. Probably Vivienne gives more freedom (more freedom is not freedom), the mages, who loyal to her. And as I said: Vivienne's the worst in many viewpoints: if she cares anyone, then this is only her loyal mages. She just a bloodthirsty magister-Divine. She doesn't care the Chantry, the people, only herself and some loyal mages. Nothing about the people. Cassandra's Justinia's follower, a progressive-conservative Divine, she cares about the people (true, less cares about the mages), wants to continue her reforms, but this isn't enough. The best time for radical reforms is after a world-chaos. If anyone wants true reforms, the Leliana is the solution. Cassandra's a wasted opportunity to an Inquisitor, who wants reforms, Vivienne's unbelievable: how she got an election? She has nothing to do with the Chantry. She just an Orlesian court jester. The question: who needs such an Orlesian mage, without any knowledge of the Chantry or Andraste, in the Chantry? I would agree that Leliana's the best pro-mage solution, but only in that she CAN be the best solution. I think there's a good reason why she had such different good and bad potential results. There's an ordered chaos there. I think Vivienne is a solution, but often really just the safer while cynical one. Leliana can be too volatile, even more than anything Vivienne goes with, but isn't necessarily (if you took care with her and things involving her).
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 30, 2018 20:59:26 GMT
I know people bring up the mage thing a lot, but one of the best things about Divine Leliana, to me, is her commitment to making the Chantry a more welcoming place for non-humans. As someone who romanced her with a dwarf and whose Qunquisitor was friends with her, it's especially nice.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 30, 2018 21:33:24 GMT
Probably Vivienne gives more freedom (more freedom is not freedom), the mages, who loyal to her. And as I said: Vivienne's the worst in many viewpoints: if she cares anyone, then this is only her loyal mages. She just a bloodthirsty magister-Divine. She doesn't care the Chantry, the people, only herself and some loyal mages. Nothing about the people. Cassandra's Justinia's follower, a progressive-conservative Divine, she cares about the people (true, less cares about the mages), wants to continue her reforms, but this isn't enough. The best time for radical reforms is after a world-chaos. If anyone wants true reforms, the Leliana is the solution. Cassandra's a wasted opportunity to an Inquisitor, who wants reforms, Vivienne's unbelievable: how she got an election? She has nothing to do with the Chantry. She just an Orlesian court jester. The question: who needs such an Orlesian mage, without any knowledge of the Chantry or Andraste, in the Chantry? I would agree that Leliana's the best pro-mage solution, but only in that she CAN be the best solution. I think there's a good reason why she had such different good and bad potential results. There's an ordered chaos there. I think Vivienne is a solution, but often really just the safer while cynical one. Leliana can be too volatile, even more than anything Vivienne goes with, but isn't necessarily (if you took care with her and things involving her). The best thing about Vivienne as Divine is that she establishes political precedent. While I don't love the idealization people have of that concept (breaking glass ceiling, first x-property y-role, etc), it does matter. But of course, all of Vivienne's other aspects really opens this up to backlash. So its easiest to imagine for her that people will hate/resent/grudgingly accept her as Divine, cultural backlash occurs, but later on a nicer mage comes up and is welcomed a lot more (even more than with Leliana and Cassandra results) and considered at least better than that last mage Divine. Acclimatization. I'm actually pretty sure we'll see a future Dragon Age with a generally more accepted and utterly canonical (as in, always set) mage as Divine, and each of the Divine options and their good to bad outcomes only sets that stage. So I think Vivienne Divine is politically useful. Just as the Inquisitor is politically useful to Vivienne. That's the whole gist with her. Pro- freedom and equal chances. Interesting viewpoint to see the freedom and equal chances as chaos... Vivienne's not a solution for anything. Why would she a good Divine? She just a narrow-minded, annoying person. She is the one who would a solution only for her beloved LOYAL mages, but the worst for everyone else. If the Inquisitor wants a more conservative Divine than Leliana, then there's Cassandra. And Leliana helps her if need to play the Game. She knows that, but not in love with that. *** Vivienne's not good political precedent. The mages don't need a Divine icon, the mages need freedom. And Leliana opens the status for everyone, including the mages. On the contrary! Vivienne's the worst propaganda: a mage, who think, the mages are uncontrollable monsters. This only deepens people's fears. And the Inquisitor doesn't need Vivienne, only Vivienne needs the Inquisition.
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Post by CosmicGnosis on Jan 31, 2018 2:06:00 GMT
Heh, I guess this is what happens when you have to wait so long between games... Now I'm starting to wonder if I want my Amell to continue being my canonical Warden, or my Cousland who becomes Prince-Consort of Ferelden (and Alistair remains as a Grey Warden). Well, this is why I love Dragon Age. So many world-states.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 31, 2018 2:39:02 GMT
Heh, I guess this is what happens when you have to wait so long between games... Now I'm starting to wonder if I want my Amell to continue being my canonical Warden, or my Cousland who becomes Prince-Consort of Ferelden (and Alistair remains as a Grey Warden). Well, this is why I love Dragon Age. So many world-states. I've been going on a mad tear through my canon lately. It's so hard to be definitive about the world state you want when you don't know what's in store for DA4...
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Post by phoray on Jan 31, 2018 5:30:17 GMT
allowing your Tranquil to be murdered and turned into telescopesShouldn't be funny, so funny.
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Post by phoray on Jan 31, 2018 5:32:07 GMT
He said up front that he hates the game, but has to play it anyway. ....sounds like playing the game to me. How do you know he isn't playing the Game by telling you he hates the Game? Neither in the book nor in the video game have I ever NOT seen him playing "The Game". He plays the game when people aren't looking. And he bends his Cheveleir honor whenever it suits him.
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Post by aslightjump on Jan 31, 2018 9:03:19 GMT
Canonically, I conscript the mages or templars, because they both played stupid games and deserve bad prizes and because they've proved themselves to be on the whole mindless sycophants who will follow willfully stupid leaders.
I don't try for a Divine, I let my choices decide, and most often I end up with Cassandra, I think. TBH, most of what they do is probably going to be treated like that one slide in DAO that said Cullen went insane and killed some apprentices at the Tower Circle: a possibility, but not what ultimately happened.
Keep the Wardens. Hawke on the whole lives more often than the die, unless the Warden is Alistair.
Celene, Briala, and Gaspard are all crap people but since I never read Masked Empire and my Inquisitor wouldn't know this stuff anyway, I most often reconcile Celene and Briala.
Don't drink from the Well. I'm with Sera. It's called the Well of Sorrows! Not even Morrigan's overwhelming smug and false superiority can overcome that kind of foreboding.
Honestly though, I've played all three games so much that between them all I have about three choices that I consider canon: Convince Zathrian to stop being a dick, side with the Mages against Meredith, and conscription. Besides, while choices are fun and they can be nice callbacks later on, overall they don't effect each individual game a lot, so you're pretty much safe any which-way you do things.
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theascendent
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by theascendent on Jan 31, 2018 9:26:35 GMT
It's always important to question these kind of decisions. Certainty is nice at times, but almost unattainable in reality. I always used to play my games like a robot I kept making the same decisions, but as I got older I started to examine situations differently and take a bigger picture view on things. One notable instance was Orzammar. I used to hate Bhelen, and my campaign as a Dwarven noble certainly didn't endear him to me. But as I got older, I realized that while he's a ruthless, amoral, son of a b**** I began to admire his pragmatism and determination to be king and modernise an incredibly conservative society no matter the cost so that it could survive. He's certainly a flawed character, but that is what makes him interesting and compelling. That's just one notable instance where doubt and uncertainty caused me to re-evaluate my priorities and decisions. Hindsight certainly plays a role, but I like to think that these instances and contentious decisions is what made Bioware games great.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 19:44:35 GMT
I know people bring up the mage thing a lot, but one of the best things about Divine Leliana, to me, is her commitment to making the Chantry a more welcoming place for non-humans. As someone who romanced her with a dwarf and whose Qunquisitor was friends with her, it's especially nice. Yeah, I agree, she easily makes the best Divine because of this. My default Warden is a lady dwarf commoner with Leli as her love too!
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