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Cerberus is Humanity! Join us today and receive a limited edition commemorative pin!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
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Post by 10k on Jun 24, 2019 19:13:14 GMT
You have no idea how much I and my friends were talking about ME2's Cerberus and TIM's genius and how much potential ME3 has back in 2010-12 (also about Templars vs Mages topics in DA), but Bioware even ruined it with making them stupid villains (yet to be proven a viable option at the end, an oxymoron). It really made several of my very philosophically-politically interesting and engaging people leave. The next chapter was with closing off of some forums (including off-topics) back in post-DAI 2015, another group of my friends left. And here we go again with mediocre Andromeda and dead Anthem... DAI had almost the same effect on the Dragon Age franchise as ME3 on Mass Effect. I never played Andromeda tbh. Do you think that Bioware is losing more traction by not tackling the things that the now gone fanbase wanted, or that having tackled those would have been more damaging, in your opinion? I actually do think they are losing more traction by not listening, and not giving people what they want. I personally think it all started with the ME3 ending; when the "artistic integrity" became a line. All they had to do was change it. But they didn't and people left. The same was done in regards of both Anthem and Andromeda. People wanted a sequel, or at the very least to stay in the milky way galaxy. They didn't listen, and some people left and didn't buy it. Anthem fans want loot, they're not listening, and now people are leaving. Sometimes listening to the people who buys your product is the best way to do business. Those are my thoughts anyways.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Camel on Jun 24, 2019 19:23:47 GMT
GAAAAH! MODS NEED TO BAN THEMSELVES, ONLY REGACK IS WORTHY. THEN UNBAN ALL THE OLD MEMBERS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION BANNED BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE BIOWAREMOD01 OR STANLEY WOO. THEN, ALL BANNED MODS ARE WELCOMED BACK AS REGULAR USERS... OVER TIME, THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS PROVEN TO BE UNWORTHY OF ADMINISTRATING, BUT HAS SOME VALUE IN POSTS AND OCCASIONAL HUMOR. ONCE CYONAN LEFT, IT DIDN'T MATTER WHAT BIOWARE MADE; THIS FORUM WAS DOOMED. ALSO, IT'S DEAD JIM. This brings me back lol... Stan Woo used to be a mod at CD Project red forums too after a stint at BSN. Ironic.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jun 24, 2019 19:27:29 GMT
Do you think that Bioware is losing more traction by not tackling the things that the now gone fanbase wanted, or that having tackled those would have been more damaging, in your opinion? I actually do think they are losing more traction by not listening, and not giving people what they want. I personally think it all started with the ME3 ending; when the "artistic integrity" became a line. All they had to do was change it. But they didn't and people left. The same was done in regards of both Anthem and Andromeda. People wanted a sequel, or at the very least to stay in the milky way galaxy. They didn't listen, and some people left and didn't buy it. Anthem fans want loot, they're not listening, and now people are leaving. Sometimes listening to the people who buys your product is the best way to do business. Those are my thoughts anyways. It's like we said when they closed down the old forums and moved to reddit and Twitter: It's way too easy there to put yourself in an echo chamber and ignore any feedback you don't wanna listen to.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 24, 2019 20:29:50 GMT
I actually do think they are losing more traction by not listening, and not giving people what they want. I personally think it all started with the ME3 ending; when the "artistic integrity" became a line. All they had to do was change it. But they didn't and people left. The same was done in regards of both Anthem and Andromeda. People wanted a sequel, or at the very least to stay in the milky way galaxy. They didn't listen, and some people left and didn't buy it. Anthem fans want loot, they're not listening, and now people are leaving. Sometimes listening to the people who buys your product is the best way to do business. Those are my thoughts anyways. It's like we said when they closed down the old forums and moved to reddit and Twitter: It's way too easy there to put yourself in an echo chamber and ignore any feedback you don't wanna listen to. People grossly overestimate feedback. Fan fantasies aren't the holy grail of gaming. A good portion of common sense is.
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Post by vorchainteriordesign on Jun 24, 2019 20:39:12 GMT
I actually do think they are losing more traction by not listening, and not giving people what they want. I personally think it all started with the ME3 ending; when the "artistic integrity" became a line. All they had to do was change it. But they didn't and people left. The same was done in regards of both Anthem and Andromeda. People wanted a sequel, or at the very least to stay in the milky way galaxy. They didn't listen, and some people left and didn't buy it. Anthem fans want loot, they're not listening, and now people are leaving. Sometimes listening to the people who buys your product is the best way to do business. Those are my thoughts anyways. It's like we said when they closed down the old forums and moved to reddit and Twitter: It's way too easy there to put yourself in an echo chamber and ignore any feedback you don't wanna listen to. GAAAH >.< BETTER THAN NOSTRADAMUS WE WERE, EVEN TOLD THEM SO WHEN BIOWARE FORUM WAS BEGINNING THE DECLINE WITH CENSORSHIP AND PREFERENCE TO SPECIAL GROUPS, WHICH LED TO MOAR CENSORSHIP LALALALA. NOW, A FEW YEARS LATER, HERE WE ARE WATCHING BALDUR'S GATE 3 BE DEVELOPED BY LARIAN. ¯\_(☯෴☯)_/¯
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N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,866 Likes: 49,312
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Post by Iakus on Jun 24, 2019 20:50:07 GMT
It's like we said when they closed down the old forums and moved to reddit and Twitter: It's way too easy there to put yourself in an echo chamber and ignore any feedback you don't wanna listen to. GAAAH >.< BETTER THAN NOSTRADAMUS WE WERE, EVEN TOLD THEM SO WHEN BIOWARE FORUM WAS BEGINNING THE DECLINE WITH CENSORSHIP AND PREFERENCE TO SPECIAL GROUPS, WHICH LED TO MOAR CENSORSHIP LALALALA. NOW, A FEW YEARS LATER, HERE WE ARE WATCHING BALDUR'S GATE 3 BE DEVELOPED BY LARIAN. ¯\_(☯෴☯)_/¯ And history is repeating itself again. But that's another story
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 24, 2019 21:02:30 GMT
People grossly overestimate feedback. Fan fantasies aren't the holy grail of gaming. A good portion of common sense is. I don't think Bioware listened to fan feedback at all, though.
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Post by goishen on Jun 24, 2019 21:15:45 GMT
Well I guess when this forum is deserted for good, I'll go hang in CDPR forums more often. Though I hope the mods here do something to breathe some life back into this place. I don't think relying on BW games will do it. I've known, for quite a while, that relying on BioWare games alone wouldn't do it. But that's all part of being a mod. Seeing the numbers decline and acting on it. Now, I fear that it may be too late.
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Post by goishen on Jun 24, 2019 21:26:59 GMT
Did you all see this article about an interview EA CEO Andrew Wilson had on the state of Anthem? The man is completely delusional as far as I can tell, blaming the players for not understanding "what Anthem was" at launch. If this guy has any influence over what BioWare is, or is going to do, the game is doomed. He says there's still 7-10 years left in the IP. I hope that's the case but the skeptic in me wonders if it can be pulled off, especially after seeing the reveal of Cataclysm. games.mxdwn.com/news/andrew-wilson-addresses-eas-stumbles-the-issues-with-anthem-more-in-new-interview/Of course the dude's delusional. You can't expect a bro to just put down his broskis, can you? Nahh man, we got beers to pound, and chicks to drink. Err, something like that. Hey dude, I played Pong one time in 1979 for about half an hour, dude! I'm a gamer. Look, at me bra!@# I'm just like you, dude!@
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Post by force58 on Jun 24, 2019 21:52:59 GMT
WE DONT WANT INTERACTION AT THE CORE OF PLAYING GAMES, WE WANT ESCAPISM YOU R-TARD. Yeah really.
“The way we built games 20 years ago actually doesn’t fulfill what has become a very core motivation of why people play today,”
BS. MMO's have been around for decades. There has always been social interaction for those that wanted it. And other titles that were stand alone story driven RPG's and other types o f single player content did just fine for those that wanted that. He just wants to enforce the style of gaming that will make them the most money.
Exactly!!!
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Post by vorchainteriordesign on Jun 24, 2019 22:26:00 GMT
GAAAH >.< BETTER THAN NOSTRADAMUS WE WERE, EVEN TOLD THEM SO WHEN BIOWARE FORUM WAS BEGINNING THE DECLINE WITH CENSORSHIP AND PREFERENCE TO SPECIAL GROUPS, WHICH LED TO MOAR CENSORSHIP LALALALA. NOW, A FEW YEARS LATER, HERE WE ARE WATCHING BALDUR'S GATE 3 BE DEVELOPED BY LARIAN. ¯\_(☯෴☯)_/¯ And history is repeating itself again. But that's another story GRAAAH! VORCHA DIET PLENTY OF IRON, I UNDERSTAND THIS REFERENCE
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Post by river82 on Jun 24, 2019 23:44:04 GMT
As we all suspected (because it was painfully obvious) the "influencers" invited to EA's event for "feedback" gave almost nothing but mindless praise to the developers, and I'm sure the developers lapped it up because that's what Bioware's developers seem to be looking for - mindless praise and endless backslaps. The damning revelation was presented by someone who was there who felt awkward being "the only person in the room with criticism" and not crawling over themselves to spew out how much they love the game.
Gamechangers - you are a pack of useless fucks like always. Please go away, thank you.
Reveleation made at 6:14 in the video below:
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 25, 2019 7:35:49 GMT
As we all suspected (because it was painfully obvious) the "influencers" invited to EA's event for "feedback" gave almost nothing but mindless praise to the developers, and I'm sure the developers lapped it up because that's what Bioware's developers seem to be looking for - mindless praise and endless backslaps. The damning revelation was presented by someone who was there who felt awkward being "the only person in the room with criticism" and not crawling over themselves to spew out how much they love the game. Gamechangers - you are a pack of useless fucks like always. Please go away, thank you. Reveleation made at 6:14 in the video below: Gamechangers are business partners, not fans. Their motivations are driven by economic interest and while tieing themselves to EA - what do people expect? EA runs a strat of exclusive info dissemination - likely because it's much cheaper than classic advertising. There is but one thing gamechangers change - the channel of funneling corp PR. THAT is the 'game' being played.
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cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Jun 25, 2019 11:29:46 GMT
It's like we said when they closed down the old forums and moved to reddit and Twitter: It's way too easy there to put yourself in an echo chamber and ignore any feedback you don't wanna listen to. People grossly overestimate feedback. Fan fantasies aren't the holy grail of gaming. A good portion of common sense is.
Square Enix remade Final Fantasy 14 from player feedback. Corrected pretty much everything the players were complaining about after the initial release. Even now they make changes based on feedback, and they will reference issues directly in their interactions with fans and what corrections they;re going to make or are working on. They added a job that was just terrible to play, couldn't compete with other jobs. Players complained and they just didn't band aid it, they completely overhauled the job.
Bioware should make Final Fantasy XIV a case study on communication, listening to feedback and how to fix a broken game.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 25, 2019 11:47:07 GMT
People grossly overestimate feedback. Fan fantasies aren't the holy grail of gaming. A good portion of common sense is.
Square Enix remade Final Fantasy 14 from player feedback. Corrected pretty much everything the players were complaining about after the initial release. Even now they make changes based on feedback, and they will reference issues directly in their interactions with fans and what corrections they;re going to make or are working on. They added a job that was just terrible to play, couldn't compete with other jobs. Players complained and they just didn't band aid it, they completely overhauled the job.
Bioware should make Final Fantasy XIV a case study on communication, listening to feedback and how to fix a broken game.
All that feedback probably just confirmed that it was worth to do a rework. The rest is applying common sense.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 25, 2019 11:50:32 GMT
The rest is applying common sense. I have yet to see a display of common sense from Bioware, since the troubles started.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 25, 2019 11:55:54 GMT
The rest is applying common sense. I have yet to see a display of common sense from Bioware, since the troubles started. Maybe they still dont know what they want their game to be. Anthem lacks vision. Realistic vision. Tho DAI and MEA wasnt really convincing on their loot design neither.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Jun 25, 2019 12:06:04 GMT
I’ve dealt with “mindless praise” in a development environment when doing code reviews. I’d prefer that people point out weaknesses and ways to improve. From the guys video, the devs he spoke to seemed to appreciate his more critical feedback.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 25, 2019 12:12:15 GMT
Maybe they still dont know what they want their game to be. How about making it the game they advertised it to be? Meaningful choices and Shady Characters among other things. Or implement the things that appeared in the E3 demo, like a more lively Fort Tarsis. BG2's Athkatla looked more alive and believable than Fort Tarsis, by comparison. Shit, now I want to play BG2 again.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,866 Likes: 49,312
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Post by Iakus on Jun 25, 2019 13:09:38 GMT
Maybe they still dont know what they want their game to be. How about making it the game they advertised it to be? Meaningful choices and Shady Characters among other things. Or implement the things that appeared in the E3 demo, like a more lively Fort Tarsis. BG2's Athkatla looked more alive and believable than Fort Tarsis, by comparison. Shit, now I want to play BG2 again. Bioware needs to go back and look at the games they made before EA acquired them and ask themselves "How can we make products like this for modern platforms?"
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 25, 2019 13:16:27 GMT
Bioware needs to go back and look at the games they made before EA acquired them and ask themselves "How can we make products like this for modern platforms?" Absolutely! Modernize for current graphical standards. It shouldn't be that fucking hard. I remember the project that someone had started for NWN (NWN2?) which was a remake of the Baldur's Gate games in the Aurora Engine and I couldn't fucking wait for it to be released, though I think it never made a full release. If Square can remake FFVII, why can't/shouldn't Bioware remake Baldur's Gate 1 and 2?
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 25, 2019 13:20:08 GMT
How about making it the game they advertised it to be? Meaningful choices and Shady Characters among other things. Or implement the things that appeared in the E3 demo, like a more lively Fort Tarsis. BG2's Athkatla looked more alive and believable than Fort Tarsis, by comparison. Shit, now I want to play BG2 again. Bioware needs to go back and look at the games they made before EA acquired them and ask themselves "How can we make products like this for modern platforms?" Could they still make stuff like the old days? There's been quite a while and they are living pretty much on past successes now.
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jun 25, 2019 13:35:43 GMT
By going back to their roots, you mean quitting EA and founding a new studio? Because that's the only possible scenario for the devs. EA has no interest in going back...
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 25, 2019 14:03:42 GMT
By going back to their roots, you mean quitting EA and founding a new studio? Because that's the only possible scenario for the devs. EA has no interest in going back... That's a common way studios get re-seeded, ye. I think only a fraction make it though.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,866 Likes: 49,312
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Post by Iakus on Jun 25, 2019 14:17:07 GMT
Bioware needs to go back and look at the games they made before EA acquired them and ask themselves "How can we make products like this for modern platforms?" Could they still make stuff like the old days? There's been quite a while and they are living pretty much on past successes now. Honestly, I don't know. I think DAI might have been an attempt at it...
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