tatann
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Post by tatann on Apr 25, 2019 11:25:55 GMT
The thing is, that I don't wanna see BioWare fail. That's the funny thing. I want for them to come out with another kick ass game like DAO or ME. But they just aren't, and haven't been for a while. *shrug* What can I say? I only nod silently here...
Truth is... I do not even looking forward to the new Dragon Age any longer. When I learned the game would also be developed using the Frostbyte engine with Anthem "basics", and as "cherry on the top" the Game As Service model, I lost a lot of interest and got that same "sinking feeling" I got when we learned the details and setup for Anthem.
It's sad to say, but I am far, far more looking forward to releases from other game developers. For now I am more excited to see the upcoming English release of Trails Of Cold Steel 3 and 4 from Falcom (and hoping for a soon PC port like they have done for part 1 and 2), than anything what Bioware is developing.
As a personal opinion: If only Bioware had put more time and effort in Mass Effect Andromeda, and had released some really good DLC's for that game, we would have not been in this situation now. I am convinced Anthem was pushed out too early, because MEA was dying an early death. In my opinion they wanted to use MEA as a "stopgap" to buy time to develop Anthem. And because it was only a "stopgap" they dropped it on a less experienced studio and put not any work in it themselves. The result was that both games suffered... How stupid can you be?
Anyway - That ship has sailed and is steered right into the cliffs. It's sinking slowly now.... That's what you get if a manager thinks he's a Captain...
Anthem pushed out too quickly ? "6 years of development", "Mass Effect died for this" I think it's the contrary: they butchered Mass Effect to put resources on Anthem
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Post by PillarBiter on Apr 25, 2019 11:50:47 GMT
What can I say? I only nod silently here...
Truth is... I do not even looking forward to the new Dragon Age any longer. When I learned the game would also be developed using the Frostbyte engine with Anthem "basics", and as "cherry on the top" the Game As Service model, I lost a lot of interest and got that same "sinking feeling" I got when we learned the details and setup for Anthem.
It's sad to say, but I am far, far more looking forward to releases from other game developers. For now I am more excited to see the upcoming English release of Trails Of Cold Steel 3 and 4 from Falcom (and hoping for a soon PC port like they have done for part 1 and 2), than anything what Bioware is developing.
As a personal opinion: If only Bioware had put more time and effort in Mass Effect Andromeda, and had released some really good DLC's for that game, we would have not been in this situation now. I am convinced Anthem was pushed out too early, because MEA was dying an early death. In my opinion they wanted to use MEA as a "stopgap" to buy time to develop Anthem. And because it was only a "stopgap" they dropped it on a less experienced studio and put not any work in it themselves. The result was that both games suffered... How stupid can you be?
Anyway - That ship has sailed and is steered right into the cliffs. It's sinking slowly now.... That's what you get if a manager thinks he's a Captain...
Anthem pushed out too quickly ? "6 years of development", "Mass Effect died for this" I think it's the contrary: they butchered Mass Effect to put resources on Anthem People keep saying anthem was in development for 6 years, while in actuality it was only 1,5 years that it was actively worked on.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 25, 2019 12:20:53 GMT
Anthem pushed out too quickly ? "6 years of development", "Mass Effect died for this" I think it's the contrary: they butchered Mass Effect to put resources on Anthem People keep saying anthem was in development for 6 years, while in actuality it was only 1,5 years that it was actively worked on.
Bioware's poor management doesn't change the fact they had 6 years.
If you contracted someone for a project and they came to you near the end and said they wasted most of the time, and they only just started working on the actual product. Would you be rushing them if you said they've had x amount of years to do this, you have other parts of your business dependent upon this and they need to deliver based on the agreed upon timeline?
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Apr 25, 2019 13:24:07 GMT
Wow I was right, amazing what happens when you predict things using common sense. And no amount of post purgings can deny it.
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Post by goishen on Apr 25, 2019 13:27:55 GMT
I would get fired. No matter how hard I worked on something.
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tatann
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by tatann on Apr 25, 2019 15:00:38 GMT
Anthem pushed out too quickly ? "6 years of development", "Mass Effect died for this" I think it's the contrary: they butchered Mass Effect to put resources on Anthem People keep saying anthem was in development for 6 years, while in actuality it was only 1,5 years that it was actively worked on. Development doesn't mean software development They lost 6 years on this mess, and sacrificed Mass Effect for it
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Post by Hier0phant on Apr 25, 2019 15:22:47 GMT
It's like Bethesda and Bioware are competing to produce the biggest bomb of the decade.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
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PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 25, 2019 15:27:48 GMT
Let's all hope that Bio mgt's decisions, their priorities and sequence are the right ones. Whatever restrictions management placed on those running the livestream due to the Kotaku article, they openly displayed contempt for their remaining playerbase. I honestly dont blame then. After all, they said sveral times they wont be taking questions on loot from what i saw. I would not be shocked if someone gets testy repeating themselves when hundreds of folks all but ignore you in thay regard. Bad enough I deal with that with my students, who sometimes ignore the fact I explained a straightforward instruction on a deadline or restriction while in class. It gets frustrating and worse, intolerable when it's constant and in some cases, five minutes after you explained it while they are in your presence. The big difference is the majority of my students are not demanding an answer I can't give them. Bioware should hold them contempt. At least that way they can cut the noise and get to work.
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The Legend Continues
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Post by Mobius Y on Apr 25, 2019 15:33:52 GMT
It's like Bethesda and Bioware are competing to produce the biggest bomb of the decade. Pretty sure Raven’s Cry will always hold that title. Fallout 76 might be awful, Anthem might be a monstrous disappointment... but they’re still way better than Raven’s Cry.
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Post by Hier0phant on Apr 25, 2019 15:37:21 GMT
It's like Bethesda and Bioware are competing to produce the biggest bomb of the decade. Pretty sure Raven’s Cry will always hold that title. Fallout 76 might be awful, Anthem might be a monstrous disappointment... but they’re still way better than Raven’s Cry. Yikes! i forgot that one existed.
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 25, 2019 15:38:18 GMT
It's like Bethesda and Bioware are competing to produce the biggest bomb of the decade. Pretty sure Raven’s Cry will always hold that title. Fallout 76 might be awful, Anthem might be a monstrous disappointment... but they’re still way better than Raven’s Cry. Well, Master of Orion 3 cured me for pretty much all the hype tried on me.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 25, 2019 15:42:11 GMT
It's like Bethesda and Bioware are competing to produce the biggest bomb of the decade. Pretty sure Raven’s Cry will always hold that title. Fallout 76 might be awful, Anthem might be a monstrous disappointment... but they’re still way better than Raven’s Cry. I did a review for that one. Holy hell. What a mess.
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Post by Polka Dot on Apr 25, 2019 15:45:49 GMT
People keep saying anthem was in development for 6 years, while in actuality it was only 1,5 years that it was actively worked on. Development doesn't mean software development They lost 6 years on this mess, and sacrificed Mass Effect for it Also Dragon Age - and its former Creative Director. After the reboot, loss of more talent, move to the almighty "live service" paradigm - I'm not holding out much hope that DA4 will be on my must have list.
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Apr 25, 2019 15:48:24 GMT
Whatever restrictions management placed on those running the livestream due to the Kotaku article, they openly displayed contempt for their remaining playerbase. I honestly dont blame then. After all, they said sveral times they wont be taking questions on loot from what i saw. I would not be shocked if someone gets testy repeating themselves when hundreds of folks all but ignore you in thay regard. Bad enough I deal with that with my students, who sometimes ignore the fact I explained a straightforward instruction on a deadline or restriction while in class. It gets frustrating and worse, intolerable when it's constant and in some cases, five minutes after you explained it while they are in your presence. The big difference is the majority of my students are not demanding an answer I can't give them. Bioware should hold them contempt. At least that way they can cut the noise and get to work.
I don't recall this being hardly what happened. I remember one of the devs well into the livestream said I'm going to do something brave and go look at the chat for questions. Then everyone in the chat started saying LOOT!! Then the dev said some of the these questions we're just not going to answer. Some of these are answered on the post on Reddit. No one said anything like 'as previously stated we're not taking questions or loot, or the roadmap'. They didn't say over and over again they weren't taking questions on these things. Then later on one of the devs said I can't believe no one is asking questions on the level design.
Honestly it does show a lack of respect for the players to state you haven't addressed the game's biggest issue and that you've abandoned your roadmap in a post and then not address it at all on the livestream. It's just a little cowardly.
There's a certain level of contrition that Bioware has yet to show. They need to have a come to Jesus moment like SE did on Final Fantasy XIV, when they came out and apologized, saying the state the game was released in was unacceptable, wasn't up to their normal standards, and that they know they've damaged the players trust in them and their brand in general.
Bioware is going to have to do something like this at some point.
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linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 25, 2019 15:55:33 GMT
I honestly dont blame then. After all, they said sveral times they wont be taking questions on loot from what i saw. I would not be shocked if someone gets testy repeating themselves when hundreds of folks all but ignore you in thay regard. Bad enough I deal with that with my students, who sometimes ignore the fact I explained a straightforward instruction on a deadline or restriction while in class. It gets frustrating and worse, intolerable when it's constant and in some cases, five minutes after you explained it while they are in your presence. The big difference is the majority of my students are not demanding an answer I can't give them. Bioware should hold them contempt. At least that way they can cut the noise and get to work.
I don't recall this being hardly what happened. I remember one of the devs well into the livestream said I'm going to do something brave and go look at the chat for questions. Then everyone in the chat started saying LOOT!! Then the dev said some of the these questions we're just not going to answer. Some of these are answered on the post on Reddit. No one said anything like 'as previously stated we're not taking questions or loot, or the roadmap'. They didn't say over and over again they weren't taking questions on these things. Then later on one of the devs said I can't believe no one is asking questions on the level design.
Honestly it does show a lack of respect for the players to state you haven't addressed the game's biggest issue and that you've abandoned your roadmap in a post and then not address it at all on the livestream. It's just a little cowardly.
There's a certain level of contrition that Bioware has yet to show. They need to have a come to Jesus moment like SE did on Final Fantasy XIV, when they came out and apologized, saying the state the game was released in was unacceptable, wasn't up to their normal standards, and that they know they've damaged the players trust in them and their brand in general.
Bioware is going to have to do something like this at some point.
I don't think that will matter. Folks will still complain. If hudson comes out tomorrow and says were sorry, we will get south park memes. I've said this elsewhere but id respect them more if they say "too bad" to folks who object to things or demand info on something. At this point, they may as well go the hard ass route, at least then they can wrestle control back.
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Post by tatann on Apr 25, 2019 16:43:28 GMT
Pretty sure Raven’s Cry will always hold that title. Fallout 76 might be awful, Anthem might be a monstrous disappointment... but they’re still way better than Raven’s Cry. Well, Master of Orion 3 cured me for pretty much all the hype tried on me. X:Rebirth... But at least the game ended up "ok" in the end (Egosoft style)
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Post by tatann on Apr 25, 2019 16:50:04 GMT
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Post by 10k on Apr 25, 2019 18:20:48 GMT
Angry Joe talks about the live stream. I personally didn't watch it, but it's nuts how bad it's being portrayed. I agree with OJ here, they need to just let the game sink and move on already.
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cypherj
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Apr 25, 2019 18:37:45 GMT
I don't recall this being hardly what happened. I remember one of the devs well into the livestream said I'm going to do something brave and go look at the chat for questions. Then everyone in the chat started saying LOOT!! Then the dev said some of the these questions we're just not going to answer. Some of these are answered on the post on Reddit. No one said anything like 'as previously stated we're not taking questions or loot, or the roadmap'. They didn't say over and over again they weren't taking questions on these things. Then later on one of the devs said I can't believe no one is asking questions on the level design.
Honestly it does show a lack of respect for the players to state you haven't addressed the game's biggest issue and that you've abandoned your roadmap in a post and then not address it at all on the livestream. It's just a little cowardly.
There's a certain level of contrition that Bioware has yet to show. They need to have a come to Jesus moment like SE did on Final Fantasy XIV, when they came out and apologized, saying the state the game was released in was unacceptable, wasn't up to their normal standards, and that they know they've damaged the players trust in them and their brand in general.
Bioware is going to have to do something like this at some point.
I don't think that will matter. Folks will still complain. If hudson comes out tomorrow and says were sorry, we will get south park memes. I've said this elsewhere but id respect them more if they say "too bad" to folks who object to things or demand info on something. At this point, they may as well go the hard ass route, at least then they can wrestle control back.
Wait, so Bioware hyped up a looter shooter, released it in terrible shape with a broken loot system, minimal content, and many other problems, all the time promising more content was coming soon, check our roadmap. Then they fail to fix the loot system, and abandon the roadmap with no new dates in site. Then when players, no, consumers rightfully ask for answers over the future direction of the game, Bioware is the one who is entitled to have the attitude? Really?
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Post by goishen on Apr 25, 2019 18:59:57 GMT
The thing that he doesn't get, is that memes die over time. There's a reason why Disaster Girl and Overly Attached Girlfriend aren't really memes anymore. Except where someone comes out and defends the person/thing being attacked.
Like Brad McQuaid and Vanguard. Shit, I'm still posting memes of people falling down, due to his new game Pantheon : Rise Of The Fallen. But then again, we have idiots and morons coming into the thread defending the vaporware.
*shrug*
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 25, 2019 19:57:40 GMT
I don't think that will matter. Folks will still complain. If hudson comes out tomorrow and says were sorry, we will get south park memes. I've said this elsewhere but id respect them more if they say "too bad" to folks who object to things or demand info on something. At this point, they may as well go the hard ass route, at least then they can wrestle control back.
Wait, so Bioware hyped up a looter shooter, released it in terrible shape with a broken loot system, minimal content, and many other problems, all the time promising more content was coming soon, check our roadmap. Then they fail to fix the loot system, and abandon the roadmap with no new dates in site. Then when players, no, consumers rightfully ask for answers over the future direction of the game, Bioware is the one who is entitled to have the attitude? Really?
Yes. Because of the mischaracterization you display above.I'd be curt as well to that kind of punditry, especially if I stated why it's not happening right now.Or to put it another way, You give what you get. Here's the big point at the end of the day, their statement more or less told you "we are going to fix this loot problem" and that the games other issues are taking priority over their original roadmap plan. My guess is, based on their statement, is that they will pull a diablo 3 or final fantasy 14 or whatever you call it, wholesale revamp when it's ready over incremental changes. They are changing their entire game strucutre to give players who have no fucking patience what they want, meaning changing systems and bug testing on top to get it done beforehand. The badgering over loot does not help the situation, it's not coming tomorrow. Grumbling over a lost roadmap and transform that into a conspiracy theory does not help. That is all folks looking for either self gratification or worse at this point. So I don't rightly get why folks keep acting surprised when Bioware ignores that since they answered it, and gets annoyed by the repeat of questions from folks who are obsensively fucking with them.
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Post by NotN7 on Apr 25, 2019 20:22:12 GMT
Wait, so Bioware hyped up a looter shooter, released it in terrible shape with a broken loot system, minimal content, and many other problems, all the time promising more content was coming soon, check our roadmap. Then they fail to fix the loot system, and abandon the roadmap with no new dates in site. Then when players, no, consumers rightfully ask for answers over the future direction of the game, Bioware is the one who is entitled to have the attitude? Really?
Yes. Because of the mischaracterization you display above.I'd be curt as well to that kind of punditry, especially if I stated why it's not happening right now.Or to put it another way, You give what you get. Here's the big point at the end of the day, their statement more or less told you "we are going to fix this loot problem" and that the games other issues are taking priority over their original roadmap plan. My guess is, based on their statement, is that they will pull a diablo 3 or final fantasy 14 or whatever you call it, wholesale revamp when it's ready over incremental changes. They are changing their entire game strucutre to give players who have no fucking patience what they want, meaning changing systems and bug testing on top to get it done beforehand. The badgering over loot does not help the situation, it's not coming tomorrow. Grumbling over a lost roadmap and transform that into a conspiracy theory does not help. That is all folks looking for either self gratification or worse at this point. So I don't rightly get why folks keep acting surprised when Bioware ignores that since they answered it, and gets annoyed by the repeat of questions from folks who are obsensively fucking with them. Sorry but your right in one respect and really wrong in another I paid for a product one which I feel I did not get yes the complainers are winning the day which is why I'm no longer a supporter of Bioware, sorry but to fix the loading screens all they did was remove the fort really? Oh! sorry you had to run around to get the contracts well here lets get rid of the fort is there anything else that's causing you to spend an extra minute or two to start your game play? its not what I payed for as for the loot issue I have no problems as it is. the game was designed to continue for …….? ten tears and it has only been two months and they caved and totally screwed the game IMO so no, Bioware has a long way to go to regain my trust.
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Apr 25, 2019 20:41:24 GMT
Wait, so Bioware hyped up a looter shooter, released it in terrible shape with a broken loot system, minimal content, and many other problems, all the time promising more content was coming soon, check our roadmap. Then they fail to fix the loot system, and abandon the roadmap with no new dates in site. Then when players, no, consumers rightfully ask for answers over the future direction of the game, Bioware is the one who is entitled to have the attitude? Really?
Yes. Because of the mischaracterization you display above.I'd be curt as well to that kind of punditry, especially if I stated why it's not happening right now.Or to put it another way, You give what you get. Here's the big point at the end of the day, their statement more or less told you "we are going to fix this loot problem" and that the games other issues are taking priority over their original roadmap plan. My guess is, based on their statement, is that they will pull a diablo 3 or final fantasy 14 or whatever you call it, wholesale revamp when it's ready over incremental changes. They are changing their entire game strucutre to give players who have no fucking patience what they want, meaning changing systems and bug testing on top to get it done beforehand. The badgering over loot does not help the situation, it's not coming tomorrow. Grumbling over a lost roadmap and transform that into a conspiracy theory does not help. That is all folks looking for either self gratification or worse at this point. So I don't rightly get why folks keep acting surprised when Bioware ignores that since they answered it, and gets annoyed by the repeat of questions from folks who are obsensively fucking with them. Mischaracterization? Exactly what part of my statement does this apply to. Is the loot system Broken? Yes. Is there minimal content? Yes. Does the game have a bunch of other issues? Yes. Did they say more content was coming, follow the roadmap? Yes. Have they failed to fix the loot system? Yes. Did they abandon the road map, with no estimate of when these additions will be out? Yes. The only mischaracterization is yours about the livestream, saying that the devs were telling people over and over again they weren't answering questions on Loot, which is patently false. If the devs didn't want to answer questions on Loot or the roadmap they should have started the livestream by saying they were there to talk about the new stronghold, please keep your questions to that, and then directed people to reddit from the start for questions on loot or the roadmap. Better yet, they should have just read the statement, or put it on screen before they started. But no, they jumped right into the stronghold with no mention of the statement, and then said they were going to the chat to look for questions, and only then did they say we're not answering these questions, and just ignored them. If this is how you handle things, you deserve what you get.
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 25, 2019 21:46:22 GMT
Wait, so Bioware hyped up a looter shooter, released it in terrible shape with a broken loot system, minimal content, and many other problems, all the time promising more content was coming soon, check our roadmap. Then they fail to fix the loot system, and abandon the roadmap with no new dates in site. Then when players, no, consumers rightfully ask for answers over the future direction of the game, Bioware is the one who is entitled to have the attitude? Really?
Yes. Because of the mischaracterization you display above.I'd be curt as well to that kind of punditry, especially if I stated why it's not happening right now.Or to put it another way, You give what you get. Here's the big point at the end of the day, their statement more or less told you "we are going to fix this loot problem" and that the games other issues are taking priority over their original roadmap plan. My guess is, based on their statement, is that they will pull a diablo 3 or final fantasy 14 or whatever you call it, wholesale revamp when it's ready over incremental changes. They are changing their entire game strucutre to give players who have no fucking patience what they want, meaning changing systems and bug testing on top to get it done beforehand. The badgering over loot does not help the situation, it's not coming tomorrow. Grumbling over a lost roadmap and transform that into a conspiracy theory does not help. That is all folks looking for either self gratification or worse at this point. So I don't rightly get why folks keep acting surprised when Bioware ignores that since they answered it, and gets annoyed by the repeat of questions from folks who are obsensively fucking with them.
Hm... At this point Bio needs to control the narrative. Off the start, the hosts failed to set up the ground rules (ie: control expectations). They got hammered. Amateur hour, again.
My view is that the hosts were unprepared or rather totally prepared to talk about the new Stronghold. Unprepared for the community's need of "I want answers" to current problems.
This very fact, that Bio cannot / won't address head on the players' questions is also a problem.... the chat questions reveal ( Bio's not answering ) is evidence of this chasm between the two.
The loot issue is sensitive to players.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 25, 2019 21:52:55 GMT
Yes. Because of the mischaracterization you display above.I'd be curt as well to that kind of punditry, especially if I stated why it's not happening right now.Or to put it another way, You give what you get. Here's the big point at the end of the day, their statement more or less told you "we are going to fix this loot problem" and that the games other issues are taking priority over their original roadmap plan. My guess is, based on their statement, is that they will pull a diablo 3 or final fantasy 14 or whatever you call it, wholesale revamp when it's ready over incremental changes. They are changing their entire game strucutre to give players who have no fucking patience what they want, meaning changing systems and bug testing on top to get it done beforehand. The badgering over loot does not help the situation, it's not coming tomorrow. Grumbling over a lost roadmap and transform that into a conspiracy theory does not help. That is all folks looking for either self gratification or worse at this point. So I don't rightly get why folks keep acting surprised when Bioware ignores that since they answered it, and gets annoyed by the repeat of questions from folks who are obsensively fucking with them.
Hm... At this point Bio needs to control the narrative. Off the start, the hosts failed to set up the ground rules (ie: control expectations). They got hammered. Amateur hour, again.
My view is that the hosts were unprepared or rather totally prepared to talk about the new Stronghold. Unprepared for the community's need of "I want answers" to current problems.
This very fact, that Bio cannot / won't address head on the players' questions is also a problem.... the chat questions reveal ( Bio's not answering ) is evidence of this chasm between the two.
The loot issue is sensitive to players.
And i again come back to the point I've railed for lately, they should keep that chasm between folks. I remember thinking to myself their closeness and communication the community was going to go a long way, but honestly I think I'm wrong in that statement at this point, because it is meaningless. Even with what you said cypher, it would be for naught. Fuck, I half expect folks to bitch about future loot changes at this rate because it was too slow to come out. Bioware has no chance to control the narrative anymore, its been hijacked completely and for most folks, they are looking to crash the car.
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