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Post by vorchainteriordesign on May 7, 2019 4:07:03 GMT
I'm hoping it's Mark Meer's alt. WE ARE GNSSSHHHHK FLATTERED, BUT MARK MEER IS JUST VORCHA ALT. TRUE MEER VOICE IS VORCHA, HUMAN VOICE IS ACTING. MEER VERY GOOD ACTOR FOR VORCHA.
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Post by clips7 on May 7, 2019 6:08:16 GMT
Yup...sounds more like this....
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Post by masterwarderz on May 7, 2019 8:32:44 GMT
Unsustainable business model is unsustainable Imagine no concept of economics... I'm seeing that from you, a goods and services market doesn't care about manufacturing expense. When the consumer stops paying, it ceases profitability. Standardization of market averages are one thing but in a field like this? They'll never keep up with expense except in the vein of sales multiples. You could say people would accept a flat increase of 30 dollars for a video game out of left field, I'm thinking that if that increase isn't done over the course of at least ten to fifteen years then any company that employs it knows about as much of retail finance and distribution as you. That is to say nothing to not much.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Post by linksocarina on May 7, 2019 13:00:16 GMT
Imagine no concept of economics... I'm seeing that from you, a goods and services market doesn't care about manufacturing expense. When the consumer stops paying, it ceases profitability. Standardization of market averages are one thing but in a field like this? They'll never keep up with expense except in the vein of sales multiples. You could say people would accept a flat increase of 30 dollars for a video game out of left field, I'm thinking that if that increase isn't done over the course of at least ten to fifteen years then any company that employs it knows about as much of retail finance and distribution as you. That is to say nothing to not much. The problem is standard economic models are too unpredictable to be so clean. For example the Pareto principle can be applied to goods and services on a macro scale, allowing a big company to stay afloat so long as they dont rock the boat, if you will with a sustainable income for the consumers who do pay. And considering rising costs of manufacturing cutting into profit, and the free market demand being artificially hightened due to advertising, you have what is a service that is now ingrained wholly into the system. Consumers have buying power, but companies have little worries in regards to what consumers buy, so it's only a matter of time really when it jumps to $100, and it will be driven by manufacture costs over consumer predation.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,867 Likes: 3,483
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Post by ahglock on May 7, 2019 14:18:42 GMT
Game companies are charging the maximum they feel they can get away with. If they thought they could charge $100 and maintain enough sales to be more profitable at that level they would. They aren’t, so they clearly don’t think $100 will currently fly.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 7, 2019 14:22:03 GMT
The problem is standard economic models are too unpredictable to be so clean. For example the Pareto principle can be applied to goods and services on a macro scale, allowing a big company to stay afloat so long as they dont rock the boat, if you will with a sustainable income for the consumers who do pay. And considering rising costs of manufacturing cutting into profit, and the free market demand being artificially hightened due to advertising, you have what is a service that is now ingrained wholly into the system. Consumers have buying power, but companies have little worries in regards to what consumers buy, so it's only a matter of time really when it jumps to $100, and it will be driven by manufacture costs over consumer predation. Frankly, I couldn't care less about EA's economic model, their projections and shareholder satisfaction. If they go ahead with the $100 sales price for their games, I will simply not buy their games, something they've made extremely easy, as they have not released a title that I'd want to play in years.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by linksocarina on May 7, 2019 14:52:16 GMT
Game companies are charging the maximum they feel they can get away with. If they thought they could charge $100 and maintain enough sales to be more profitable at that level they would. They aren’t, so they clearly don’t think $100 will currently fly. That was the same argument when games jumped from 50 to 60 in the xbox360 days. Or 40 to 50 in the 90s. It's not about getting away with it really. It's about matching their production costs and consumer demand. Folks already pay over $100 sometimes. Consider that to play mass effect in its entirety with all content, you need to shell out over $200 in its hey day. Now that is including free and paid dlc, story arcs and fluff like weapons, and extra squad mates. All of which would have been cut otherwise or planned with the seperate budget. For the content it fits the cost at that time of development, so people don't mind that extra cost, plus it helps that most of it is quality content.
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Post by aglomeracja on May 7, 2019 15:01:04 GMT
In developing countries 60 dollars is just barely affordable, rising it would probably make piracy the only viable option (again).
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N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,867 Likes: 3,483
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Post by ahglock on May 7, 2019 16:10:13 GMT
Game companies are charging the maximum they feel they can get away with. If they thought they could charge $100 and maintain enough sales to be more profitable at that level they would. They aren’t, so they clearly don’t think $100 will currently fly. That was the same argument when games jumped from 50 to 60 in the xbox360 days. Or 40 to 50 in the 90s. It's not about getting away with it really. It's about matching their production costs and consumer demand. Folks already pay over $100 sometimes. Consider that to play mass effect in its entirety with all content, you need to shell out over $200 in its hey day. Now that is including free and paid dlc, story arcs and fluff like weapons, and extra squad mates. All of which would have been cut otherwise or planned with the seperate budget. For the content it fits the cost at that time of development, so people don't mind that extra cost, plus it helps that most of it is quality content. It’s just consumer demand that matters. Production cost is irrelevant to their price it’s relevant to staying profitable. Some folks pay $100. Others don’t. Whoever is in charge of determining cost currently doesn’t think the demand is such that enough people will buy at $100 to make it more profitable. And dlc, lootboxes etc are largely irrelevant to their pricing decisions on the game itself. Outside free models consumer psychology is such that their determination to buy a game is a separate purchase decision as is their decision on dlc.
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Post by goishen on May 7, 2019 16:11:04 GMT
Yah. He's speaking out of his ass.
He knows nothing about how much it would cost each one of us for the company to break even if the game only sold one million units. Nobody knows that, except for maybe the CFO of EA, the CFO of BioWare, and maybe about 10 to 20 people below them.
I don't even think that a developer would know. Could a developer guesstamate? Sure. But that would still be a blind shot in the dark.
So, I mean, if you're listening to him, you're listening to the wrong people. Especially about economics about the gaming industry.
All that we do know is that the company is earning record breaking profits, and yet this fucker is still saying that they're going broke. Brilliant. If that doesn't speak to a bubble, I dunno what does. Propagated by fear mongers like him.
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Post by masterwarderz on May 7, 2019 16:24:21 GMT
In developing countries 60 dollars is just barely affordable, rising it would probably make piracy the only viable option (again). ...All those Eastern Europeans pirating games.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 7, 2019 16:51:07 GMT
In developing countries 60 dollars is just barely affordable, rising it would probably make piracy the only viable option (again). ...All those Eastern Europeans pirating games. Arrr, matey. Board me ship and let us sail the high seas togethar, arrr
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on May 7, 2019 18:27:20 GMT
I believe it's not about $100 being a bad option but about MTX being the MUCH more lucrative option.
People are more likely to spend 40 OR MORE extra money on MTX on top of 60 than on top of 100.
MTX is a limitless opportunity for extra cash. So my guess is that $60+MTX nets more profit than a one time $100 price tag. It keeps both parties sort of happy.
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Post by shinobiwan on May 7, 2019 19:55:49 GMT
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Post by masterwarderz on May 7, 2019 20:28:03 GMT
...All those Eastern Europeans pirating games. Arrr, matey. Board me ship and let us sail the high seas togethar, arrr Seriously, like everyone I know who has pirated games came out of the Baltic or Balkans, no joke.
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cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on May 7, 2019 21:39:52 GMT
This is the best comment "The community wants us to turn off the loot, right?" "No, up! They said UP!" "Alright, turning off the loot, then."Sums everything up perfectly
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https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on May 7, 2019 21:42:53 GMT
Amateurs!
Wait. I'm sure Bio did internal testing that showed no problemos.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on May 7, 2019 21:54:17 GMT
That was the same argument when games jumped from 50 to 60 in the xbox360 days. Or 40 to 50 in the 90s. It's not about getting away with it really. It's about matching their production costs and consumer demand. Folks already pay over $100 sometimes. Consider that to play mass effect in its entirety with all content, you need to shell out over $200 in its hey day. Now that is including free and paid dlc, story arcs and fluff like weapons, and extra squad mates. All of which would have been cut otherwise or planned with the seperate budget. For the content it fits the cost at that time of development, so people don't mind that extra cost, plus it helps that most of it is quality content. It’s just consumer demand that matters. Production cost is irrelevant to their price it’s relevant to staying profitable. Some folks pay $100. Others don’t. Whoever is in charge of determining cost currently doesn’t think the demand is such that enough people will buy at $100 to make it more profitable. And dlc, lootboxes etc are largely irrelevant to their pricing decisions on the game itself. Outside free models consumer psychology is such that their determination to buy a game is a separate purchase decision as is their decision on dlc. It matters only to a point, as I said basic 101 economics like supply and demand really only works in theory, when in practice too many external factors change the parameters, from price of production, globalization, second hand markets, physical vs digital, all of that. Thats before DLC and other costs along with consumer participation. I'm not exactly sure how to say it any plainer than that, it's not as simple as you make it out to be.
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Post by masterwarderz on May 7, 2019 22:08:52 GMT
I'm seeing that from you, a goods and services market doesn't care about manufacturing expense. When the consumer stops paying, it ceases profitability. Standardization of market averages are one thing but in a field like this? They'll never keep up with expense except in the vein of sales multiples. You could say people would accept a flat increase of 30 dollars for a video game out of left field, I'm thinking that if that increase isn't done over the course of at least ten to fifteen years then any company that employs it knows about as much of retail finance and distribution as you. That is to say nothing to not much. so it's only a matter of time really when it jumps to $100 Yeah, I never denied that price change occurs, but if it isn't driven by inflation or dynamic economic shift then they are idiots who deserve their company to receive the scorn it will for thinking their production demands 18% mark up over literally everyone else.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 7, 2019 22:09:39 GMT
TweetOh, wow. You know, I had someone tell me, around the end of March, that Anthem sold about 4 million copies, as I was projecting somewhere around the 5 million mark. I was skeptical at first, but the more I thought about it, the more plausible it seemed to me, to be just off that 5 million mark. I didn't expect him to be this right, though. The game just crashed after the first week, didn't it?
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
inherit
Always teacher, sometimes writer
370
0
4,063
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Teaching Mode Activated
3,179
August 2016
linksocarina
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on May 7, 2019 22:10:43 GMT
so it's only a matter of time really when it jumps to $100 Yeah, I never denied that price change occurs, but if it isn't driven by inflation or dynamic economic shift then they are idiots who deserve their company to receive the scorn it will for thinking their production demands 18% mark up over literally everyone else. You speak like this is only about one company. The whole industry is going to eventually shift.
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Polka Dot
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 679 Likes: 1,207
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Polka Dot on May 7, 2019 22:31:14 GMT
This is the best comment "The community wants us to turn off the loot, right?" "No, up! They said UP!" "Alright, turning off the loot, then."Sums everything up perfectly I think I like this one better: 99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs, take one down, patch it around, 134 little bugs in the code.
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Post by river82 on May 7, 2019 23:00:53 GMT
TweetOh, wow. You know, I had someone tell me, around the end of March, that Anthem sold about 4 million copies, as I was projecting somewhere around the 5 million mark. I was skeptical at first, but the more I thought about it, the more plausible it seemed to me, to be just off that 5 million mark. I didn't expect him to be this right, though. The game just crashed after the first week, didn't it? 5-6 million was always a big ask, not to mention there are other expectations they would have failed to meet like player drop off rate. I've always though 4 million sounded like a good guess frankly. Someone was running around saying Anthem would have sold half their expectations, which is just way too low a guess imo.
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twitch.tv/goishen
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goishen
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by goishen on May 7, 2019 23:06:55 GMT
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,867 Likes: 3,483
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ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on May 7, 2019 23:57:20 GMT
It’s just consumer demand that matters. Production cost is irrelevant to their price it’s relevant to staying profitable. Some folks pay $100. Others don’t. Whoever is in charge of determining cost currently doesn’t think the demand is such that enough people will buy at $100 to make it more profitable. And dlc, lootboxes etc are largely irrelevant to their pricing decisions on the game itself. Outside free models consumer psychology is such that their determination to buy a game is a separate purchase decision as is their decision on dlc. It matters only to a point, as I said basic 101 economics like supply and demand really only works in theory, when in practice too many external factors change the parameters, from price of production, globalization, second hand markets, physical vs digital, all of that. Thats before DLC and other costs along with consumer participation. I'm not exactly sure how to say it any plainer than that, it's not as simple as you make it out to be. Thanks for your brilliant insight that there is more to economics than supply and demand.The ideal price though is a profit x people who will purchase calculation. If a consumer is only willing to pay $10 for your item the fact you paid $20 to make it is irrelevant to the consumer as they only see $10 of value. Finding that right price isn’t easy and there are multiple factors going into it but my costs aren’t going to change what people are willing to pay. For good or bad. If people are willing to pay $1000 and it only costs me $10 to make it, I’m still going to sell it at $1000. That kind of profit will motivate competitors to move into the market or copy my cheaper production methods so it likely won’t last. But you take it while you can. In a new market I’m probably going to set my price at a making a profit point though if that doesn’t work I’d shift to minimizing my loss. There are exceptions like where I’m expecting a loss the first generation of goods. But, Games aren’t a new market so they have more information to form a price. Their information is currently keeping it at $70. And yes I assume it will eventually hit $100. Personally I expect a $10 jump at the next console launch. It’s a psychological shift where people will be more likely to pay more for the games as they will perceive then as more advanced and therefore more valuable. But the game companies will be looking at competitors, marketing, focus groups etc to get a idea for how far they can push it this generation. Some will balk at the price but as the majority accepts it even holdouts will for the most part cave.
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