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Post by vertigomez on Feb 1, 2018 13:17:57 GMT
I am going to need a definition of 'normal gamer' before I can laugh at this properly. The ones who drive the sales for the games. Not the niche audience who swallow whatever drivel is put out because they can't find other games with gay romance options. Lol. The idea that gay Bioware fans only like Bioware products 'cause gay content. I was here loooong before that was a thing.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 1, 2018 13:57:59 GMT
But, with there never being a gay male elf Zevran and Fenris? Or do they not count because they're bi? (I mean, obviously bi != gay, but you want someone who is specifically gay, as opposed to a gay romance option, which includes the bi folks.)
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Andraste_Reborn
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Feb 1, 2018 14:09:37 GMT
I am going to need a definition of 'normal gamer' before I can laugh at this properly. The ones who drive the sales for the games. Not the niche audience who swallow whatever drivel is put out because they can't find other games with gay romance options. Gay money is just as good as straight money. (And I doubt that the number of people who buy the games to romance hot straight ladies is any higher than the number who buy it for the gay romance. I think most of us are here for the story and the murder simulation and the romances are the icing on the delicious cake.) Besides, people don't have to rely on BioWare for this stuff any more. More and more cPRGs are including same-sex romance options. Fallout 4 had them, Divinity: Original Sin 2 has more bisexual companions than Dragon Age 2, Greedfall will have same-sex romances of some kind and it seems like there will be some in Pillars of Eternity 2 as well. (We don't actually know which companions are romanceable and by whom, but we know there are ladies who are into ladies and dudes who are into dudes and also romances so probably this will be a thing?) It seems to be standard for RPGs with romances in them to include m/m and f/f options nowadays.
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Post by shechinah on Feb 1, 2018 14:21:50 GMT
I am going to need a definition of 'normal gamer' before I can laugh at this properly. The ones who drive the sales for the games. Not the niche audience who swallow whatever drivel is put out because they can't find other games with gay romance options. So you think that I am someone who "swallows whatever drivel is put out because they can't find other games with gay romance options"?
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 1, 2018 14:34:54 GMT
But, with there never being a gay male elf Zevran and Fenris? Or do they not count because they're bi? (I mean, obviously bi != gay, but you want someone who is specifically gay, as opposed to a gay romance option, which includes the bi folks.) Obviously I meant straight up homosexual. There has never been a gay male elf (companion or otherwise, I assume). Bisexual female elf? [x] Bisexual male elf? [xx] Lesbian female elf? [x] Straight male elf? [x] The only ones that are '' lacking '' are gay male elf and straight female elf. So, you know, 1+1, I think both of these will be featured in DA4. Though MEA showcased that this kind of '' logical '' thinking means nothing, what with gay men still not having a gaylien when the game launched. But different teams so who knows. Since qunari are a fresh new romance option and if we are getting a qunari companion, it's definitely female, and dwarves aren't on the menu romance wise (and if they are, Harding is going to fill the slot of a dwarf romance, and especially a gay/bi dwarf romance), and most people still want to romance humans, I PERSONALLY think it's pretty expected for the gay romances to go like gay male elf, bi male human. But this is too logical, innit?
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 1, 2018 14:55:50 GMT
Since qunari are a fresh new romance option and if we are getting a qunari companion, it's definitely female, and dwarves aren't on the menu romance wise (and if they are, Harding is going to fill the slot of a dwarf romance, and especially a gay/bi dwarf romance), and most people still want to romance humans, I PERSONALLY think it's pretty expected for the gay romances to go like gay male elf, bi male human. But this is too logical, innit? I don't think you should expect anything. It all depends on the characters that are available and what the writer wants to do with them. I don't know about Patrick Weekes, but as lead writer, David Gaider had the mentality that his people should have characters they want to write and they found interesting.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 1, 2018 15:25:54 GMT
Since qunari are a fresh new romance option and if we are getting a qunari companion, it's definitely female, and dwarves aren't on the menu romance wise (and if they are, Harding is going to fill the slot of a dwarf romance, and especially a gay/bi dwarf romance), and most people still want to romance humans, I PERSONALLY think it's pretty expected for the gay romances to go like gay male elf, bi male human. But this is too logical, innit? I don't think you should expect anything. It all depends on the characters that are available and what the writer wants to do with them. I don't know about Patrick Weekes, but as lead writer, David Gaider had the mentality that his people should have characters they want to write and they found interesting. Well lets hope someone wants to write a good gay character. Wait, no, scratch that, I mean a good gay romance. I'm not sure how many times characters are written with a sexuality in mind and is ingrained to their design (barring characters with a gay soap opera story). I figured that they write the character first, then hold a meeting about who is assigned to what sexuality.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,875 Likes: 49,330
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Post by Iakus on Feb 1, 2018 15:56:30 GMT
A girly feminine yet strong female knight who can be romanced by both female and male protagonists. So how many gamers would be offended at such a character? Would you call her Ms fanservice? Would you consider her a boring character? Does she have boobplate? A stripperific outfit? Gratuitous butt or boob shots during dialogue? Or is her armor sensible? Does she dress like anyone else of her station? What's her backstory? Is it interesting? Does she have daddy issues? Does it tie in to the main story in any way? Does she have one or more personal quests? Is it a fetch quest or something more in-depth? How are her conversations? Does she have a lot to say about the storyline? Is there a particular topic she's focused on? If so, what is it? How well can we get to know her? What's her banter like with other characters? Is she opinionated? Conceited? Kind? Machiavellian? Altruistic? What's her personality like? Which other characters does she like or not like? What's her romance like? Gratuitous nudity? A lot of talking? Are there "date scenes"? Does she show signs of affection outside the romance? How short or long is the romance subplot? Does she get jealous if you try to romance someone else?
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 1, 2018 16:34:12 GMT
Dorian's isn't bad gay romance, you just happen to dislike it. That is your prerogative, but it's not some objective truth that it's bad. Lots of players, straight and gay, enjoy the character and his romance. I'm sorry you don't, but again, that doesn't make it bad. I'm not sure how many times characters are written with a sexuality in mind and is ingrained to their design (barring characters with a gay soap opera story). I figured that they write the character first, then hold a meeting about who is assigned to what sexuality. Here is DG describing how Dorian came to be. He did this at a conference of developers during a talk he was giving on diversity. I figured that they write the character first, then hold a meeting about who is assigned to what sexuality. They assign characters, not sexualities. Or more accurately, writers talk about the general character concepts, what they feel they can bring to the character. DG talked about letting Patrick Weekes have Cole, even though it was his own character from Asunder, because Patrick was interested in the character and had some good ideas. Dorian was a bit of a special case and he basically used his lead privilege for that, but I've gotten the impression that wasn't something he liked to do on a regular basis. As lead, part of his job was ensuring that his writers were engaged and enjoying what they were doing, which includes writing things they want to write.
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 1, 2018 16:39:53 GMT
The ones who drive the sales for the games. Not the niche audience who swallow whatever drivel is put out because they can't find other games with gay romance options. Gay money is just as good as straight money. (And I doubt that the number of people who buy the games to romance hot straight ladies is any higher than the number who buy it for the gay romance. I think most of us are here for the story and the murder simulation and the romances are the icing on the delicious cake.) Besides, people don't have to rely on BioWare for this stuff any more. More and more cPRGs are including same-sex romance options. Fallout 4 had them, Divinity: Original Sin 2 has more bisexual companions than Dragon Age 2, Greedfall will have same-sex romances of some kind and it seems like there will be some in Pillars of Eternity 2 as well. (We don't actually know which companions are romanceable and by whom, but we know there are ladies who are into ladies and dudes who are into dudes and also romances so probably this will be a thing?) It seems to be standard for RPGs with romances in them to include m/m and f/f options nowadays. I would be weary when it comes to Pillars 2, since Obsidian has a history of being anti-romance across the board, regardless of orientation*. On several occasions Josh Sawyer has said that he found most romance sub plots in video games boring. Chris Avellone hates them with a passion, and is only interested in them if they end in tragedy. Yes, he's no longer with Obsidian as of this writing, but his legacy casts a long shadow at the company. Time will tell if Deadfire's romances are genuine attempts for artistic growth, or token fan service.
*The romances in Alpha Protocol struck me as James Bondian flings, and the DLC love scenes in Tyranny had more of a Friends With Benefits vibe.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 1, 2018 16:42:08 GMT
Hey, Chris Avellone was the Creative Director of NWN2 and there were plenty of romances in that game and the expansions. He may not be a fan of video game romances in general but that doesn't mean he can't be vetoed LOL.
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Post by naughtynomad on Feb 1, 2018 16:49:17 GMT
The ones who drive the sales for the games. Not the niche audience who swallow whatever drivel is put out because they can't find other games with gay romance options. Gay money is just as good as straight money. (And I doubt that the number of people who buy the games to romance hot straight ladies is any higher than the number who buy it for the gay romance. I think most of us are here for the story and the murder simulation and the romances are the icing on the delicious cake.) Besides, people don't have to rely on BioWare for this stuff any more. More and more cPRGs are including same-sex romance options. Fallout 4 had them, Divinity: Original Sin 2 has more bisexual companions than Dragon Age 2, Greedfall will have same-sex romances of some kind and it seems like there will be some in Pillars of Eternity 2 as well. (We don't actually know which companions are romanceable and by whom, but we know there are ladies who are into ladies and dudes who are into dudes and also romances so probably this will be a thing?) It seems to be standard for RPGs with romances in them to include m/m and f/f options nowadays. Of course gay money is just as good. There's just, statistically speaking, a lot less of it. The population of the average gamer is predominantly male. Most males (80%) are straight. Bioware's first gay character was a female. Most likely to appeal to straight male gamers who made female characters more than it was for gay female players. I get that Dragon Age has sort of become a bastion for the incredibly small gay gaming community, but the simple math is you guys dont bring enough money to keep making these games. If BW doesnt start appealing to the average male gamer again, you can kiss the franchise goodbye.
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Post by shechinah on Feb 1, 2018 16:54:05 GMT
Hey, Chris Avellone was the Creative Director of NWN2 and there were plenty of romances in that game and the expansions. He may not be a fan of video game romances in general but that doesn't mean he can't be vetoed LOL. I think he was also responsible for Darth Sion's twisted feelings towards the female Exile in Knights of the Old Republic II. I believe he said it was his take on romance but I cannot remember whether that was just a joke or not. Regardless, I've always loved and preferred that version of Sion's character and motivation because I find it so much more interesting than the version with the male Exile. The latter just seems generic in comparison.
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Post by rras1994 on Feb 1, 2018 16:54:57 GMT
Gay money is just as good as straight money. (And I doubt that the number of people who buy the games to romance hot straight ladies is any higher than the number who buy it for the gay romance. I think most of us are here for the story and the murder simulation and the romances are the icing on the delicious cake.) Besides, people don't have to rely on BioWare for this stuff any more. More and more cPRGs are including same-sex romance options. Fallout 4 had them, Divinity: Original Sin 2 has more bisexual companions than Dragon Age 2, Greedfall will have same-sex romances of some kind and it seems like there will be some in Pillars of Eternity 2 as well. (We don't actually know which companions are romanceable and by whom, but we know there are ladies who are into ladies and dudes who are into dudes and also romances so probably this will be a thing?) It seems to be standard for RPGs with romances in them to include m/m and f/f options nowadays. Of course gay money is just as good. There's just, statistically speaking, a lot less of it. The population of the average gamer is predominantly male. Most males (80%) are straight. Bioware's first gay character was a female. Most likely to appeal to straight male gamers who made female characters more than it was for gay female players. I get that Dragon Age has sort of become a bastion for the incredibly small gay gaming community, but the simple math is you guys dont bring enough money to keep making these games. If BW doesnt start appealing to the average male gamer again, you can kiss the franchise goodbye. I think you're missing a very large segment of buyers here: women. I've seen a study that suggested the proportion of women who played Dragon Age Inquisition was as high as 48%. That's a very large segement and they definitely do make large enough segment to be catered to. Edit: This is of course putting aside the idea that including same sex romances means you're not appealing to the average male gamer. That is rubbish. If the average male gamer can't handle having other groups have something catered to them (and we are talking a small amount of a larger game here), there's something very wrong going on.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 1, 2018 16:56:42 GMT
When did BW stop appealing to "the average male gamer"? You can still play a straight male wish-fulfillment warrior who gets to see nekkid boobies and fight crime. The idea that straight guys as a whole are just going to drop Dragon Age as a franchise because Cassandra has a scar on her face or Josephine's nose isn't to your liking (?? wtf who even notices things like this) is absurd.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 1, 2018 16:57:03 GMT
If BW doesnt start appealing to the average male gamer again, you can kiss the franchise goodbye. Dragon Age: Inquisition had the most successful launch in Bioware history and was extremely profitable for the company, even with, according to you, female LIs that don't appeal to the average straight male gamer. With the amount of high-profile female characters, characters of color, LGBT characters, DAI was the most inclusive game to date and did extremely well. They're doing just fine as they are.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 1, 2018 17:19:11 GMT
Dorian's isn't bad gay romance, you just happen to dislike it. That is your prerogative, but it's not some objective truth that it's bad. Lots of players, straight and gay, enjoy the character and his romance. I'm sorry you don't, but again, that doesn't make it bad. I wasn't speaking for anyone else except me, obviously, there's no real universal standard of what constitutes a good (gay) character, but BWs track record of gay characters has been shoddy at best, THUS my joke about wanting the writers to want to write good gay characters and romances. And I wasn't just talking about Dorian, but Gil is really bottom of the barrel as well, and Steve doesn't hold up and feels insignificant. And I'm sure, while plenty of people disagree with me, some people agree with me.
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simit
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Chris2k30
PSN: Simit2k30
Posts: 790 Likes: 1,042
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by simit on Feb 1, 2018 17:35:12 GMT
I honestly dont care how they look or what there sexual preference is, are they a interesting companion with a interesting story? thats my interest
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 1, 2018 17:43:36 GMT
But for serious now, IMO romance novels are universal. Most of the tv shows on the CW channel are romance-centric but i'm sure more than just women watch CW. Jack had some girly qualities too, but she was still super butch compared to Miranda. Wait a second. Isn't the CW about 2/3 Arrowverse? Although I suppose that includes plenty of romance content too. (I'd ask for someone like Sara Lance in DA4, but that might be a bit close to Isabela.)
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Post by vallixas on Feb 1, 2018 17:52:02 GMT
But for serious now, IMO romance novels are universal. Most of the tv shows on the CW channel are romance-centric but i'm sure more than just women watch CW. Jack had some girly qualities too, but she was still super butch compared to Miranda. More than just boys watched Dragon Ball Z but it was still considered to be a boy show in many places. The same applies to romance novels: more than just girls and women read the genre but it's still considered to be a feminine thing to like in places. More like a recent stereotype I guess than truth, because historically Romance was enjoyed by everyone. Heck some of the most notable writers were males, Shakespere. And everyone, both male and female would go see those plays. I think we have to do a little separation here for a genre so diverse and ever evolving. I would agree that the modern type of Romance works eg: Twilight, is definately geared more towards young adult females. But for serious now, IMO romance novels are universal. Most of the tv shows on the CW channel are romance-centric but i'm sure more than just women watch CW. Jack had some girly qualities too, but she was still super butch compared to Miranda. Wait a second. Isn't the CW about 2/3 Arrowverse? Although I suppose that includes plenty of romance content too. (I'd ask for someone like Sara Lance in DA4, but that might be a bit close to Isabela.) Dunno, stopped watching that channel a while ago. But CW generally latches onto the next big thing, and find a way to turn that into a romance drama. Before Superheroes got big all their shows revolved around the Supernatural and the romantic aspects of that like Vampire Diaries.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 1, 2018 17:55:51 GMT
If the average male gamer can't handle having other groups have something catered to them (and we are talking a small amount of a larger game here), there's something very wrong going on. I think we knew that there was something very wrong going on already.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 1, 2018 18:07:06 GMT
Dunno, stopped watching that channel a while ago. But CW generally latches onto the next big thing, and find a way to turn that into a romance drama. Before Superheroes got big all their shows revolved around the Supernatural and the romantic aspects of that like Vampire Diaries. I'm not sure that works without stretcing "romance drama" enough to cover just about any drama show. It's sort of like saying that Battlestar Galactica was a soap opera, which used to be quite a thing; if that's how we use the category, the category isn't all that useful. OTOH, I never watched much Supernatural or any VD.
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Post by shechinah on Feb 1, 2018 18:19:31 GMT
More than just boys watched Dragon Ball Z but it was still considered to be a boy show in many places. The same applies to romance novels: more than just girls and women read the genre but it's still considered to be a feminine thing to like in places. More like a recent stereotype I guess than truth, because historically Romance was enjoyed by everyone. Heck some of the most notable writers were males, Shakespere. And everyone, both male and female would go see those plays. I think we have to do a little separation here for a genre so diverse and ever evolving. I would agree that the modern type of Romance works eg: Twilight, is definately geared more towards young adult females. I said it is considered a feminine thing to like in places. I did not say that it is a feminine thing to like.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,875 Likes: 49,330
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Post by Iakus on Feb 1, 2018 18:31:25 GMT
Gay money is just as good as straight money. (And I doubt that the number of people who buy the games to romance hot straight ladies is any higher than the number who buy it for the gay romance. I think most of us are here for the story and the murder simulation and the romances are the icing on the delicious cake.) Besides, people don't have to rely on BioWare for this stuff any more. More and more cPRGs are including same-sex romance options. Fallout 4 had them, Divinity: Original Sin 2 has more bisexual companions than Dragon Age 2, Greedfall will have same-sex romances of some kind and it seems like there will be some in Pillars of Eternity 2 as well. (We don't actually know which companions are romanceable and by whom, but we know there are ladies who are into ladies and dudes who are into dudes and also romances so probably this will be a thing?) It seems to be standard for RPGs with romances in them to include m/m and f/f options nowadays. I would be weary when it comes to Pillars 2, since Obsidian has a history of being anti-romance across the board, regardless of orientation*. On several occasions Josh Sawyer has said that he found most romance sub plots in video games boring. Chris Avellone hates them with a passion, and is only interested in them if they end in tragedy. Yes, he's no longer with Obsidian as of this writing, but his legacy casts a long shadow at the company. Time will tell if Deadfire's romances are genuine attempts for artistic growth, or token fan service.
*The romances in Alpha Protocol struck me as James Bondian flings, and the DLC love scenes in Tyranny had more of a Friends With Benefits vibe.
I don't even think Deadfire has confirmed romances (though they've heavilly suggested it). Just that it would have a relationship meter, which Pillars 1 did not have.
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Post by vallixas on Feb 1, 2018 18:37:00 GMT
Dunno, stopped watching that channel a while ago. But CW generally latches onto the next big thing, and find a way to turn that into a romance drama. Before Superheroes got big all their shows revolved around the Supernatural and the romantic aspects of that like Vampire Diaries. I'm not sure that works without stretcing "romance drama" enough to cover just about any drama show. It's sort of like saying that Battlestar Galactica was a soap opera, which used to be quite a thing; if that's how we use the category, the category isn't all that useful. OTOH, I never watched much Supernatural or any VD. Romance was not the main focus of Battlestar Galactica. Shows like Reign, Vampire Diaries, Star-Crossed, The 100, Beauty and the beast revolve around it. Supernatural is one of the more unique shows on the CW in that it's about two brothers and isn't structured around couples and their affairs. But the vast majority of CW shows are most definately teen soaps.
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