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Post by vertigomez on Jan 2, 2019 3:05:54 GMT
I'm thinking I'll create a separate, especially-dwarfy world state in the Keep (and hopefully have time to play it out as a trilogy run). I'm thinking I'll do Leliana and fAeducan (I've done this and enjoyed it quite a bit ) No idea for DA2, probably go with Fenris as the whole.... lyrium, Tevinter.... thing is vaguely connected to dwarves And in DAI I'll either play a fCadash romancing Blackwall or a mCadash romancing Dorian. I love them both for different reasons! I love that Blackwall's basically just a sad lumberjack dad who wants to settle down with the Inquisitor and a dog, they're two former criminals full of Regret and Hope who go around counseling and redeeming criminals together, plus she fits right under his arm and he has a beard so he'll blend in at family reunions ffs that's some cute shit! On the other hand I love the idea of a Tevinter mage falling for the only magical dwarf in existence, he and Mae can bond over their dwarf husbands, and if he can't kiss Korbin (that's a crack ship that exists entirely in my head) then damn it he's gonna kiss Cadash! HOW..... HOW CAN I CHOOSE. And since it's an especially dwarfy world state, my Warden and Inquisitor are going to be as devout as it's possible for dwarves to be, believing in the Stone (in Aeducan's case) and at least feeling drawn to it (in Cadash's case). Aeducan's a Champion/Berserker and fCadash will probably be an Assassin. Not sure if mCadash should be an Assassin or be a warrior and take the Champion spec.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 2, 2019 3:15:12 GMT
And I just noticed that all but one of my Bioware characters has multiple romances in their games (Shepard goes Kaidan to Garrus, and my Ryder is polyamorous). The stories they tell are just fine, but I may decide to drop Blackwall in the end to offset this trend. I love that! I've thought about doing that in the past - having my character get with someone, break it off, then pursue someone else - but usually my PCs know what they want lmao and have no interest in deviating from their chosen course. Though I usually have Hawke and the Inquisitor be pretty flirty in Act I/Haven just because they're getting to know people and nothing's really locked in yet. And I've thought about having my Adaar have a short-lived tryst with Bull or Blackwall, but I just get too distracted by Sera. Like the narrowest love goggles in existence.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 580 Likes: 981
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Post by davkar on Jan 2, 2019 21:16:26 GMT
Currently I have 2 main canons. Refined through various pts, although I probably won't play these until I see the full consequences of past choices/a ~best option can be determined for them in DA4 (and beyond?). Canon A DAO Human noble warrior, romanced Morrigan. Choices: mages, Bhelen+Caridin, help Redcliff, peace with the elves, solo Alistair rules Ferelden. Architect alive or dead. Can't decide it yet, prefer dead though. There is a US variant in case the Warden+/Morrigan+Kieran/old god soul stuff in DA4 ends up disappointing. Let him rest then, momMorrigan with regular Kieran would still work in DAI. DA2 Sarcastic mage femHawke. Choices are easy: help mages and regular people when possible (and if it pays), execute the terrorist abomination, side with the templars, warden Carver. Romance is harder. Since I like to play with biological limitations (in case other characters get a Kieran too) the only viable choice is Fenris. He might return in DA4 so that's a +1 for him. On the other hand I need Isabela but since Merrill takes the spot in Canon B I can only include her here. (Side note; I started a canon C exclusively just for the Izi romance but that is still just a pencil sketch. Of course I have ideas for the warden and inqi slots - oh and there are many appealing candidates - but I should stop planning that ws because I could end up with canons D-Z in an instant... ) DAI Human mage, romancing Cassie ->she can't be Divine because of that. (Well she can, it's an interesting epilogue slide, but I prefer the regular couple.) Friends with, helped everyone, boyCole, chargers saved, warden Blackwall. Templars conscripted. Orlais solo Gaspard or Cele+Bria. I like the latter though I wonder which one will be the best for the orlesians and for the world (similar choice from DAO: Bhelen is a dick but he is 100% the better king). Stroud was left in the Fade, wardens were allowed to stay. Made peace with the sentinels, drank from the Well. SLeliana Divine, Inquisition disbanded, convince Solas he's an idiot. Picked human warrior for offscreen Warden-Kieran bonding. He's a non-mage with or without the ogs so he can be a warrior like his father, also Cousland heir! Adds a "don't understand your world but I want you" dynamic to the Mori romance too. Hawke has to be a woman in this WS because DAI has a Beardquisitor (with Zevran voice) who looks like default mHawke. Mage inqi makes sense for the magic parts (magic hand, elfy stuff), human noble for the worldly parts (chantry, orlais). Canon B DAO Human mage Lelimancer. Choices are the same as in A, Alistair rules with Anora. Archie might end up alive in this one, a mage can handle him. Similarly this one has a US variant. Lelimance also 'locks' the divine choice, so it has to be Cassie. DA2 Sarcastic rogue Hawke, Merrillmancer. Same choices here too. Circle Beth, saved on templar path. DAI Solavellan, mage or archer. Archer for variety, mage for preference. Friends with, helped everyone, boy/spirit Cole, chargers saved, Blackwall pardoned. Mage allies (or templar cons because I don't really like the time travel stuff and this combined with the orlais choice might win the election for Leliana). Gasp+Bria or Cele+Bria. Stroud in Fade, wardens stay. Peace with sentinels, drink from the well. Cass Divine, inq disbanded, "babe don't... " I feel that Leliana's pro-mage attitude can be traced back to her relationship with the Warden (of course there's Wynne and nameless and faceless others). I also like the family link with Hawke. For a while he was a mage too, but I settled on rogue for class diversity. 'Amells saving the world' was a fun idea but I like the Warden's positive influence on Bethany. There is a mage hero in the ~family, it should help her accepting her magic. Obviously headcanon stuff. Inqi was a little harder. Decisions about the human world still feels a bit weird as an elf. The class is another issue. I feel mage makes the most sense because of the mark, although it might work with an archer ->elfy magic compatible with an elf.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jan 2, 2019 21:23:21 GMT
Currently I have 2 main canons. Refined through various pts, although I probably won't play these until I see the full consequences of past choices/a ~best option can be determined for them in DA4 (and beyond?). Canon A DAO Human noble warrior, romanced Morrigan. Choices: mages, Bhelen+Caridin, help Redcliff, peace with the elves, solo Alistair rules Ferelden. Architect alive or dead. Can't decide it yet, prefer dead though. There is a US variant in case the Warden+/Morrigan+Kieran/old god soul stuff in DA4 ends up disappointing. Let him rest then, momMorrigan with regular Kieran would still work in DAI. DA2 Sarcastic mage femHawke. Choices are easy: help mages and regular people when possible (and if it pays), execute the terrorist abomination, side with the templars, warden Carver. Romance is harder. Since I like to play with biological limitations (in case other characters get a Kieran too) the only viable choice is Fenris. He might return in DA4 so that's a +1 for him. On the other hand I need Isabela but since Merrill takes the spot in Canon B I can only include her here. (Side note; I started a canon C exclusively just for the Izi romance but that is still just a pencil sketch. Of course I have ideas for the warden and inqi slots - oh and there are many appealing candidates - but I should stop planning that ws because I could end up with canons D-Z in an instant... ) DAI Human mage, romancing Cassie ->she can't be Divine because of that. (Well she can, it's an interesting epilogue slide, but I prefer the regular couple.) Friends with, helped everyone, boyCole, chargers saved, warden Blackwall. Templars conscripted. Orlais solo Gaspard or Cele+Bria. I like the latter though I wonder which one will be the best for the orlesians and for the world (similar choice from DAO: Bhelen is a dick but he is 100% the better king). Stroud was left in the Fade, wardens were allowed to stay. Made peace with the sentinels, drank from the Well. SLeliana Divine, Inquisition disbanded, convince Solas he's an idiot. Picked human warrior for offscreen Warden-Kieran bonding. He's a non-mage with or without the ogs so he can be a warrior like his father, also Cousland heir! Adds a "don't understand your world but I want you" dynamic to the Mori romance too. Hawke has to be a woman in this WS because DAI has a Beardquisitor (with Zevran voice) who looks like default mHawke. Mage inqi makes sense for the magic parts (magic hand, elfy stuff), human noble for the worldly parts (chantry, orlais). Canon B DAO Human mage Lelimancer. Choices are the same as in A, Alistair rules with Anora. Archie might end up alive in this one, a mage can handle him. Similarly this one has a US variant. Lelimance also 'locks' the divine choice, so it has to be Cassie. DA2 Sarcastic rogue Hawke, Merrillmancer. Same choices here too. Circle Beth, saved on templar path.DAI Solavellan, mage or archer. Archer for variety, mage for preference. Friends with, helped everyone, boy/spirit Cole, chargers saved, Blackwall pardoned. Mage allies (or templar cons because I don't really like the time travel stuff and this combined with the orlais choice might win the election for Leliana). Gasp+Bria or Cele+Bria. Stroud in Fade, wardens stay. Peace with sentinels, drink from the well. Cass Divine, inq disbanded, "babe don't... " I feel that Leliana's pro-mage attitude can be traced back to her relationship with the Warden (of course there's Wynne and nameless and faceless others). I also like the family link with Hawke. For a while he was a mage too, but I settled on rogue for class diversity. 'Amells saving the world' was a fun idea but I like the Warden's positive influence on Bethany. There is a mage hero in the ~family, it should help her accepting her magic. Obviously headcanon stuff. Inqi was a little harder. Decisions about the human world still feels a bit weird as an elf. The class is another issue. I feel mage makes the most sense because of the mark, although it might work with an archer ->elfy magic compatible with an elf. So: Hawke turns against Bethany. "Save" yes... hypocrisy. Side with Templars, but do not say, it was for Bethany, and not against her. Yes, needs someone else, who helps Bethany, because her only "close" family betrayed her, sacrificed her. Only strengthened her feels: she's a burden on her family, and never be more.
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davkar
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 580 Likes: 981
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by davkar on Jan 2, 2019 21:27:50 GMT
I also have a 'canon' world for a gun-to-the-head/"you have to choose naow!!" scenario.
DAO choices are the same as in A. Morimancer mage warden. DA2 same as A, Merrillmancer mage Hawke. DAI world choices A, companions B.
There is also the explorer-gut choices-first pt. Not the original (before the preDAI hype replays) first pst as I 'cheated' in the keep with the DAO save and Hawke is the very second DA2 pt.
DAO mage with Mori. Originally Harrowmont was king and I couldn't remember what I picked for the landsmeet so Alistair remained a warden instead. Archie is alive, rest is the same. DA2 diplomatic wari, Isabela. Anders alive (don't agree with the terrorism though), sided with the mages. DAI mage (british voice), Cass. Mage allies. Companions B. Diplomatic threesome in Orlais. Hawke left behind in the Fade (made a lot of king Alistairs after this), wardens stay. Allies, drink. HLeli divine (didn't know about softening back then), disbanding, convince Solas.
I guess in a way this one is the 'true' canon.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 2, 2019 21:37:27 GMT
Picked human warrior for offscreen Warden-Kieran bonding. He's a non-mage with or without the ogs Not sure about that. He says that not being able to touch magic would be like being blind, so I'm thinking he's a mage.
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ewigDunkelheit
N3
Exalt the Dwarf Age!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 305 Likes: 550
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Jan 3, 2019 1:04:44 GMT
No idea for DA2, probably go with Fenris as the whole.... lyrium, Tevinter.... thing is vaguely connected to dwarves Aeducan's a Champion/Berserker and fCadash will probably be an Assassin. Not sure if mCadash should be an Assassin or be a warrior and take the Champion spec. Whatever your choice ends up being in DA2, make sure to get in some flirting with Varric. If you take him on the Night Terrors quest, make sure he turns against you. During his apology, there is a flirt. I don't think his other uses the flirt button, but when Hawke is in a romance, and Varric wants to talk to you about it (listed as A Friendly Concern in the quest log), you can accuse him of being jealous, and there is a fun response. As far as the class and specializations, I vote for Cadash to be an Assassin. While Dragon Age has shown us a fair share of non-traditional dwarven occupations (lots of rogues in the Carta...), I still think you should have one of your characters buck the warrior cliche. And I just noticed that all but one of my Bioware characters has multiple romances in their games (Shepard goes Kaidan to Garrus, and my Ryder is polyamorous). The stories they tell are just fine, but I may decide to drop Blackwall in the end to offset this trend. I love that! I've thought about doing that in the past - having my character get with someone, break it off, then pursue someone else - but usually my PCs know what they want lmao and have no interest in deviating from their chosen course. Though I usually have Hawke and the Inquisitor be pretty flirty in Act I/Haven just because they're getting to know people and nothing's really locked in yet. And I've thought about having my Adaar have a short-lived tryst with Bull or Blackwall, but I just get too distracted by Sera. Like the narrowest love goggles in existence. I thought about it some more, and I am going to keep the Blackwall/Bull transition. I don't even lose out on any of the Bull content, because I can get Blackwall's badge before Wicked Eyes, Wicked Hearts, break-up, and still dance with Bull due to prior flirting, and reserving a flirt or two from his dialogue trees. While I gave in a couple years ago, and ran my first alternate world state ever, I don't plan on revisiting it more than about once a decade, so I would rather have as much of the stuff that I like as possible in my canon playthrough (which I replay often). And my Shepard doesn't REALLY count; she had game separation. I will just try to make a minor point of it for future games...but no promises. P.S. A while back, I had decided that I am really fond of Sheryl Chee's characters. So later, in her honor, I declared that if I didn't romance her character in my canon, I would make an alternate to do so. While I wasn't a big fan of Isabela as seen through the eyes of my mostly "red" Hawkes, I was pleasantly surprised how well a "purple" Hawke and Isabela fit together. My canon Hawke doesn't have patience for Isabela's antics, and despite his earlier mercenary work, is mostly lawful. Hawke is so appalled later, that he gives her to Arishok. I actually never fought the Arishok until I romanced Isabela in my alternate. Edit: Spelling error.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 3, 2019 1:29:26 GMT
ewigDunkelheit I will flirt with Varric if I can! Though I think that particular flirt option is restricted to female Hawke, there's another one if you flirt with Merrill and Varric's with you - it's hilarious and iirc that one's available to male Hawke as well. Purple Hawke and Isabela really are great together! They are double trouble. I admire your gumption, as I've neeeevver been able to give her back to the Arishok. (Though the first time I played, she did run off never to be seen again.)
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 580 Likes: 981
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Post by davkar on Jan 3, 2019 9:20:01 GMT
So: Hawke turns against Bethany. "Save" yes... hypocrisy. Side with Templars, but do not say, it was for Bethany, and not against her. Yes, needs someone else, who helps Bethany, because her only "close" family betrayed her, sacrificed her. Only strengthened her feels: she's a burden on her family, and never be more. Not this shit again... Dude, you support terrorism and mass murder, don't use the word 'hypocrisy'. This is just your interpretation of the events, a headcanon. And headcanon, whether it's yours, mine or anyone else's, does not matter if it's conflicting with the game events/dialogues. There is absolutely no Beth-bashing in the game. Maybe a few lines with redHawke, I don't know, 99% of my Hawkes are purple and green. Siding with the templars is about keeping order, limiting losses on both sides in a needless conflict. Not letting Meredith slaughter Beth IS saving her. Even if you insist on using your headcanon there's still enough roleplaying wiggle room to make it work. "Hawke cut a bloody path through the abominations and bloodmages but when he came face to face with his estranged sister he couldn't strike her down, nor could he allow the blood crazed Meredith to end her life. This decision put her at odds with the grim Knight-Commander." or (after sparing the surrendering mages at the gate) "Seeing the templar's bloodlust is getting out of hand Hawke realized that he needs to find his sister before Meredith's forces reach the inner parts of the Circle."
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Post by Catilina on Jan 3, 2019 11:44:18 GMT
So: Hawke turns against Bethany. "Save" yes... hypocrisy. Side with Templars, but do not say, it was for Bethany, and not against her. Yes, needs someone else, who helps Bethany, because her only "close" family betrayed her, sacrificed her. Only strengthened her feels: she's a burden on her family, and never be more. Not this shit again... Dude, you support terrorism and mass murder, don't use the word 'hypocrisy'. This is just your interpretation of the events, a headcanon. And headcanon, whether it's yours, mine or anyone else's, does not matter if it's conflicting with the game events/dialogues. There is absolutely no Beth-bashing in the game. Maybe a few lines with redHawke, I don't know, 99% of my Hawkes are purple and green. Siding with the templars is about keeping order, limiting losses on both sides in a needless conflict. Not letting Meredith slaughter Beth IS saving her. Even if you insist on using your headcanon there's still enough roleplaying wiggle room to make it work. "Hawke cut a bloody path through the abominations and bloodmages but when he came face to face with his estranged sister he couldn't strike her down, nor could he allow the blood crazed Meredith to end her life. This decision put her at odds with the grim Knight-Commander." or (after sparing the surrendering mages at the gate) "Seeing the templar's bloodlust is getting out of hand Hawke realized that he needs to find his sister before Meredith's forces reach the inner parts of the Circle." I'm now absolutely in a good mood, so I'll ignore your "funny" remark, what I support, and I'll go to the point. I never did this line, but I saw in YouTube, and I know you right about that Hawke doesn't necessarily hurts Bethany with words. I know as well, that Hawke get a chance to spare Beth life. Of course I can imagine a Hawke, who spares Bethany in this way, (even if not hates her) – I just can't accept the explanation: Hawke sided the Templars for her sake. This was for anythig else (the way how Hawke sees can protect the city, against the blood mages,,, or against every mages) but not for sake of Bethany. Hawke doesn't know, s/he will be able to spare her. Whatever how Hawke nice with Bethany when Meredith wants to kill her (red!Hawke isn't –necessarily– a monster, by the way, of course has gentle option), at first, Hawke turns against her. Just like Hawke and Carver turn against each other, we can't say, that "Hawke saved Carver on Mage path". Because Hawke doesn't side with the Mages, for Carver sake (because this is a nonsense... but ofc, Hawke can hope, s/he can save Carver from his own stupidity...). We can say, "Hawke sided with mages, for some reasons, riskig to face with his/her brother in the battle, but at the end, both survived the battle". So: in Bethany's case: Hawke felt s/he have to side with the Templars, and this is okay – of course – but at the moment, Hawke have to know: s/he sides with the enemies of Bethany. No matter how hoping, that Bethany will survive, abd how gentle the dialogue is between them – Hawke at the moment risks Bethany, for another goal.
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Post by Psychevore on Jan 3, 2019 14:49:42 GMT
I don't create a canon. It's wonderful, zero effort whatsoever.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 4, 2019 16:25:39 GMT
I don't create a canon. It's wonderful, zero effort whatsoever. I wish I could do that! I'm too particular, I guess.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 6, 2019 2:29:49 GMT
I like the letter from the HoF, but it also makes it harder for me to choose my canon Warden, because they have to be someone who writes in that particular way and they have to be someone who actually WOULD go out and seek a cure for the Calling. And I like the special versions that a dwarf Warden (any origin) gives Cadash, and a Dalish Warden gives a Dalish Inquisitor, but it also makes me feel like I have to play those world states together, i.e. Aeducan -> Cadash, Mahariel -> Lavellan.
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copper
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 567 Likes: 1,084
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Post by copper on Jan 6, 2019 3:15:06 GMT
I like the letter from the HoF, but it also makes it harder for me to choose my canon Warden, because they have to be someone who writes in that particular way and they have to be someone who actually WOULD go out and seek a cure for the Calling. And I like the special versions that a dwarf Warden (any origin) gives Cadash, and a Dalish Warden gives a Dalish Inquisitor, but it also makes me feel like I have to play those world states together, i.e. Aeducan -> Cadash, Mahariel -> Lavellan. That's assuming the Warden wrote the letter themself though. One who doesn't care about the Inquisition or diplomacy might delegate the task to someone else. That person could in theory paraphrase the warden's wording as they deem necessary.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 6, 2019 3:20:52 GMT
I like the letter from the HoF, but it also makes it harder for me to choose my canon Warden, because they have to be someone who writes in that particular way and they have to be someone who actually WOULD go out and seek a cure for the Calling. And I like the special versions that a dwarf Warden (any origin) gives Cadash, and a Dalish Warden gives a Dalish Inquisitor, but it also makes me feel like I have to play those world states together, i.e. Aeducan -> Cadash, Mahariel -> Lavellan. That's assuming the Warden wrote the letter themself though. One who doesn't care about the Inquisition or diplomacy might delegate the task to someone else. That person could in theory paraphrase the warden's wording as they deem necessary. That's what I had to headcanon for my Brosca and Tabris, but then I'm like..... it's like I'm not hearing from them at all, just a secretary 😭
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davkar
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 580 Likes: 981
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Post by davkar on Jan 6, 2019 9:30:49 GMT
Not this shit again... Dude, you support terrorism and mass murder, don't use the word 'hypocrisy'. This is just your interpretation of the events, a headcanon. And headcanon, whether it's yours, mine or anyone else's, does not matter if it's conflicting with the game events/dialogues. There is absolutely no Beth-bashing in the game. Maybe a few lines with redHawke, I don't know, 99% of my Hawkes are purple and green. Siding with the templars is about keeping order, limiting losses on both sides in a needless conflict. Not letting Meredith slaughter Beth IS saving her. Even if you insist on using your headcanon there's still enough roleplaying wiggle room to make it work. "Hawke cut a bloody path through the abominations and bloodmages but when he came face to face with his estranged sister he couldn't strike her down, nor could he allow the blood crazed Meredith to end her life. This decision put her at odds with the grim Knight-Commander." or (after sparing the surrendering mages at the gate) "Seeing the templar's bloodlust is getting out of hand Hawke realized that he needs to find his sister before Meredith's forces reach the inner parts of the Circle." I'm now absolutely in a good mood, so I'll ignore your "funny" remark, what I support, and I'll go to the point. I never did this line, but I saw in YouTube, and I know you right about that Hawke doesn't necessarily hurts Bethany with words. I know as well, that Hawke get a chance to spare Beth life. Of course I can imagine a Hawke, who spares Bethany in this way, (even if not hates her) – I just can't accept the explanation: Hawke sided the Templars for her sake. This was for anythig else (the way how Hawke sees can protect the city, against the blood mages,,, or against every mages) but not for sake of Bethany. Hawke doesn't know, s/he will be able to spare her. Whatever how Hawke nice with Bethany when Meredith wants to kill her (red!Hawke isn't –necessarily– a monster, by the way, of course has gentle option), at first, Hawke turns against her. Just like Hawke and Carver turn against each other, we can't say, that "Hawke saved Carver on Mage path". Because Hawke doesn't side with the Mages, for Carver sake (because this is a nonsense... but ofc, Hawke can hope, s/he can save Carver from his own stupidity...). We can say, "Hawke sided with mages, for some reasons, riskig to face with his/her brother in the battle, but at the end, both survived the battle". So: in Bethany's case: Hawke felt s/he have to side with the Templars, and this is okay – of course – but at the moment, Hawke have to know: s/he sides with the enemies of Bethany. No matter how hoping, that Bethany will survive, abd how gentle the dialogue is between them – Hawke at the moment risks Bethany, for another goal. Ah, I see what's the issue here. The wording confused you. I never meant 'saving' as a "for her sake" thing. It's simply a "route B, choice 1". I just love that hug and telling Meredith to fk off. Mages-Carver is the same situation but in that case it's Carver who saves Hawke by standing up to Meredith. This is his big character moment. I like Beth but overall Carver is the better character because of his character arcs. You are right about Hawke's insight to the events, but that only works in the first pt/first time trying a different path. Anything beyond that is player knowledge. Why would you disregard that when crafting a canon world state? It should(?) be a mixture of personal (player) preferences and what's good/works for the world and characters. For example before the Keep I didn't know that Merrill can destroy her eluvian (yeah, friendmancer ). That knowledge opens up a number of possibilities. Perhaps I can safely leave my Hawkes in the Fade because they can survive if the mirror is intact...but Solas also gains an advantage and might convince Merrill to side with him. Maybe Hawke/warden dies anyway but the mirror would be still useful. Maybe the destroyed eluvian ends up being the better choice. Etc.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 6, 2019 12:31:41 GMT
I'm now absolutely in a good mood, so I'll ignore your "funny" remark, what I support, and I'll go to the point. I never did this line, but I saw in YouTube, and I know you right about that Hawke doesn't necessarily hurts Bethany with words. I know as well, that Hawke get a chance to spare Beth life. Of course I can imagine a Hawke, who spares Bethany in this way, (even if not hates her) – I just can't accept the explanation: Hawke sided the Templars for her sake. This was for anythig else (the way how Hawke sees can protect the city, against the blood mages,,, or against every mages) but not for sake of Bethany. Hawke doesn't know, s/he will be able to spare her. Whatever how Hawke nice with Bethany when Meredith wants to kill her (red!Hawke isn't –necessarily– a monster, by the way, of course has gentle option), at first, Hawke turns against her. Just like Hawke and Carver turn against each other, we can't say, that "Hawke saved Carver on Mage path". Because Hawke doesn't side with the Mages, for Carver sake (because this is a nonsense... but ofc, Hawke can hope, s/he can save Carver from his own stupidity...). We can say, "Hawke sided with mages, for some reasons, riskig to face with his/her brother in the battle, but at the end, both survived the battle". So: in Bethany's case: Hawke felt s/he have to side with the Templars, and this is okay – of course – but at the moment, Hawke have to know: s/he sides with the enemies of Bethany. No matter how hoping, that Bethany will survive, abd how gentle the dialogue is between them – Hawke at the moment risks Bethany, for another goal. Ah, I see what's the issue here. The wording confused you. I never meant 'saving' as a "for her sake" thing. It's simply a "route B, choice 1". I just love that hug and telling Meredith to fk off. Mages-Carver is the same situation but in that case it's Carver who saves Hawke by standing up to Meredith. This is his big character moment. I like Beth but overall Carver is the better character because of his character arcs. You are right about Hawke's insight to the events, but that only works in the first pt/first time trying a different path. Anything beyond that is player knowledge. Why would you disregard that when crafting a canon world state? It should(?) be a mixture of personal (player) preferences and what's good/works for the world and characters. For example before the Keep I didn't know that Merrill can destroy her eluvian (yeah, friendmancer ). That knowledge opens up a number of possibilities. Perhaps I can safely leave my Hawkes in the Fade because they can survive if the mirror is intact...but Solas also gains an advantage and might convince Merrill to side with him. Maybe Hawke/warden dies anyway but the mirror would be still useful. Maybe the destroyed eluvian ends up being the better choice. Etc. I don't have a canon, because my world states aren't so different.
Yes, this was my problem, the wording. But the kiss isn't her character arc. Bethany's character arc is the revolutionary, who already embraced, what is her – and if Hawke sides with the Templars, then the fact, that she stand against Hawke, and to this end, her death fits better (but who can kill Bethany?). The kiss just shows, she remained a martyr, who accepted, that she will never have a normal life. This is why I consider that kiss a very sad moment.
Carver's character arc rather the Warden. If Hawke sides with the Templars: Carver's very angry that Hawke turned against his/her kind. But helps. If Hawke sides the mages, he says, he can't miss the moment, when his brother/sister starts a war. I loved this. But you're right about that Templar Carver's moment when he finally stood by Hawke (I suppose he should do it even before – but this is just me), but this was not a real surprise: he told Hawke, the family always the first for him.
While I liked better the Templar line with Carver – this is his wrong choice, not the blind fate, and fits very well the rivalry with Hawke – the Warden is his path, he really find his goal, his place on the world, even if this is hard.
What you said about the Eluvian and Hawke is interesting.
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Post by davkar on Jan 6, 2019 17:15:11 GMT
Ah, I see what's the issue here. The wording confused you. I never meant 'saving' as a "for her sake" thing. It's simply a "route B, choice 1". I just love that hug and telling Meredith to fk off. Mages-Carver is the same situation but in that case it's Carver who saves Hawke by standing up to Meredith. This is his big character moment. I like Beth but overall Carver is the better character because of his character arcs. You are right about Hawke's insight to the events, but that only works in the first pt/first time trying a different path. Anything beyond that is player knowledge. Why would you disregard that when crafting a canon world state? It should(?) be a mixture of personal (player) preferences and what's good/works for the world and characters. For example before the Keep I didn't know that Merrill can destroy her eluvian (yeah, friendmancer ). That knowledge opens up a number of possibilities. Perhaps I can safely leave my Hawkes in the Fade because they can survive if the mirror is intact...but Solas also gains an advantage and might convince Merrill to side with him. Maybe Hawke/warden dies anyway but the mirror would be still useful. Maybe the destroyed eluvian ends up being the better choice. Etc. I don't have a canon, because my world states aren't so different.
Yes, this was my problem, the wording. But the kiss isn't her character arc. Bethany's character arc is the revolutionary, who already embraced, what is her – and if Hawke sides with the Templars, then the fact, that she stand against Hawke, and to this end, her death fits better (but who can kill Bethany?). The kiss just shows, she remained a martyr, who accepted, that she will never have a normal life. This is why I consider that kiss a very sad moment.
Carver's character arc rather the Warden. If Hawke sides with the Templars: Carver's very angry that Hawke turned against his/her kind. But helps. If Hawke sides the mages, he says, he can't miss the moment, when his brother/sister starts a war. I loved this. But you're right about that Templar Carver's moment when he finally stood by Hawke (I suppose he should do it even before – but this is just me), but this was not a real surprise: he told Hawke, the family always the first for him.
While I liked better the Templar line with Carver – this is his wrong choice, not the blind fate, and fits very well the rivalry with Hawke – the Warden is his path, he really find his goal, his place on the world, even if this is hard.
What you said about the Eluvian and Hawke is interesting. Umm, I suppose the 'kiss'es were meant to be hugs. Or is there a super secret Beth romance? GoT made this thing ~popular but I don't think the world of DA is ready for that kind of love. It could work if done properly (GoT is the proof of that) and in the Tevinter setting it might even make sense. But I digress. So the thing about Beth, she doesn't have a character arc. She's just there the whole time, sweet and all. This 'revolutionary' thing is your headcanon once again. She doesn't have a say in the matter, she's a mage, has to go with the rest. Neither does Carver, if I recall correctly Meredith even barks at him, "get back in line, boy!" or something. At least the companions have a choice. Well, 'choice' because they join Hawke automatically if their final QB is done even if it contradicts their values (ie mages-Fenris). Regarding his fate, you're using player knowledge as well. See, you can't just ignore it. While I like the templar-Carver's big moment I agree that warden-Carver is his 'true' path.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 6, 2019 17:32:22 GMT
I don't have a canon, because my world states aren't so different.
Yes, this was my problem, the wording. But the kiss isn't her character arc. Bethany's character arc is the revolutionary, who already embraced, what is her – and if Hawke sides with the Templars, then the fact, that she stand against Hawke, and to this end, her death fits better (but who can kill Bethany?). The kiss just shows, she remained a martyr, who accepted, that she will never have a normal life. This is why I consider that kiss a very sad moment.
Carver's character arc rather the Warden. If Hawke sides with the Templars: Carver's very angry that Hawke turned against his/her kind. But helps. If Hawke sides the mages, he says, he can't miss the moment, when his brother/sister starts a war. I loved this. But you're right about that Templar Carver's moment when he finally stood by Hawke (I suppose he should do it even before – but this is just me), but this was not a real surprise: he told Hawke, the family always the first for him.
While I liked better the Templar line with Carver – this is his wrong choice, not the blind fate, and fits very well the rivalry with Hawke – the Warden is his path, he really find his goal, his place on the world, even if this is hard.
What you said about the Eluvian and Hawke is interesting. Umm, I suppose the 'kiss'es were meant to be hugs. Or is there a super secret Beth romance? GoT made this thing ~popular but I don't think the world of DA is ready for that kind of love. It could work if done properly (GoT is the proof of that) and in the Tevinter setting it might even make sense. But I digress. So the thing about Beth, she doesn't have a character arc. She's just there the whole time, sweet and all. This 'revolutionary' thing is your headcanon once again. She doesn't have a say in the matter, she's a mage, has to go with the rest. Neither does Carver, if I recall correctly Meredith even barks at him, "get back in line, boy!" or something. At least the companions have a choice. Well, 'choice' because they join Hawke automatically if their final QB is done even if it contradicts their values (ie mages-Fenris). Regarding his fate, you're using player knowledge as well. See, you can't just ignore it. While I like the templar-Carver's big moment I agree that warden-Carver is his 'true' path. Kiss/hug whatever... you didn't see when a sibling give a kiss to his/her sibling? Interesting. So: the revolutionary Beth is my Headcanon? Let's see, at the Gallows:
"All these years I tried to understand what Andraste saw. Why she had to lock us up. But my powers come from the Maker... and I just cannot believe that is His will." "I always thought it was hard growing up outside of the Circle, always on the run, I never realized, how free I was. Maybe it took being locked in the Gallows to understand my place in this world to see the need to free my fellow mages." [Hawke: "He (the Maker) just enjoys watching us rip each other apart"] "I cannot believe that. The Maker is just and merciful. This injustice was created by men. A new age begins today. People will overcome their fears and find better ways to live with mages."
So: do you think, Bethany just sweet, nothing else, not even matters? (Of course not, she's just Hawke's little lovely sister, Hawke knows better what she needs.) No arc? Uh. This is not right. Her arc is: to stand for herself – even against Hawke. And to embrace her gift. Again: "But my powers come from the Maker... and I just cannot believe, that is his will". (But I know, this is why people love Bethany: they can love her easily – she's just a speaking-smiling puppet. Good girl, good sister, if you don't want she will not shows negative emotions. Problemfree. A martyr.) Yes, Carver wanted to join to Hawke, it seems, but Meredith was stronger at the moment (I'm sad for it...) And that for Fenris' Questioning Beliefs needs 100% friendship/rivalry. This means absolutely close relationship, of course he will support his friend – his family at the moment. (To lock the mages isn't Fenris' value – he fears the mages, this is different) To side the mages with a mage, don't need player knowledge. Carver chose his fate – Bethany born as a mage.
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Post by davkar on Jan 7, 2019 11:50:40 GMT
Umm, I suppose the 'kiss'es were meant to be hugs. Or is there a super secret Beth romance? GoT made this thing ~popular but I don't think the world of DA is ready for that kind of love. It could work if done properly (GoT is the proof of that) and in the Tevinter setting it might even make sense. But I digress. So the thing about Beth, she doesn't have a character arc. She's just there the whole time, sweet and all. This 'revolutionary' thing is your headcanon once again. She doesn't have a say in the matter, she's a mage, has to go with the rest. Neither does Carver, if I recall correctly Meredith even barks at him, "get back in line, boy!" or something. At least the companions have a choice. Well, 'choice' because they join Hawke automatically if their final QB is done even if it contradicts their values (ie mages-Fenris). Regarding his fate, you're using player knowledge as well. See, you can't just ignore it. While I like the templar-Carver's big moment I agree that warden-Carver is his 'true' path. Kiss/hug whatever... you didn't see when a sibling give a kiss to his/her sibling? Interesting. So: the revolutionary Beth is my Headcanon? Let's see, at the Gallows:
"All these years I tried to understand what Andraste saw. Why she had to lock us up. But my powers come from the Maker... and I just cannot believe that is His will." "I always thought it was hard growing up outside of the Circle, always on the run, I never realized, how free I was. Maybe it took being locked in the Gallows to understand my place in this world to see the need to free my fellow mages." [Hawke: "He (the Maker) just enjoys watching us rip each other apart"] "I cannot believe that. The Maker is just and merciful. This injustice was created by men. A new age begins today. People will overcome their fears and find better ways to live with mages."
So: do you think, Bethany just sweet, nothing else, not even matters? (Of course not, she's just Hawke's little lovely sister, Hawke knows better what she needs.) No arc? Uh. This is not right. Her arc is: to stand for herself – even against Hawke. And to embrace her gift. Again: "But my powers come from the Maker... and I just cannot believe, that is his will". (But I know, this is why people love Bethany: they can love her easily – she's just a speaking-smiling puppet. Good girl, good sister, if you don't want she will not shows negative emotions. Problemfree. A martyr.) Yes, Carver wanted to join to Hawke, it seems, but Meredith was stronger at the moment (I'm sad for it...) And that for Fenris' Questioning Beliefs needs 100% friendship/rivalry. This means absolutely close relationship, of course he will support his friend – his family at the moment. (To lock the mages isn't Fenris' value – he fears the mages, this is different) To side the mages with a mage, don't need player knowledge. Carver chose his fate – Bethany born as a mage. You missed the point again. I was talking about Carver; you don't know about his 3 possible fates in your first pt.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 7, 2019 11:59:06 GMT
Kiss/hug whatever... you didn't see when a sibling give a kiss to his/her sibling? Interesting. So: the revolutionary Beth is my Headcanon? Let's see, at the Gallows:
"All these years I tried to understand what Andraste saw. Why she had to lock us up. But my powers come from the Maker... and I just cannot believe that is His will." "I always thought it was hard growing up outside of the Circle, always on the run, I never realized, how free I was. Maybe it took being locked in the Gallows to understand my place in this world to see the need to free my fellow mages." [Hawke: "He (the Maker) just enjoys watching us rip each other apart"] "I cannot believe that. The Maker is just and merciful. This injustice was created by men. A new age begins today. People will overcome their fears and find better ways to live with mages."
So: do you think, Bethany just sweet, nothing else, not even matters? (Of course not, she's just Hawke's little lovely sister, Hawke knows better what she needs.) No arc? Uh. This is not right. Her arc is: to stand for herself – even against Hawke. And to embrace her gift. Again: "But my powers come from the Maker... and I just cannot believe, that is his will". (But I know, this is why people love Bethany: they can love her easily – she's just a speaking-smiling puppet. Good girl, good sister, if you don't want she will not shows negative emotions. Problemfree. A martyr.) Yes, Carver wanted to join to Hawke, it seems, but Meredith was stronger at the moment (I'm sad for it...) And that for Fenris' Questioning Beliefs needs 100% friendship/rivalry. This means absolutely close relationship, of course he will support his friend – his family at the moment. (To lock the mages isn't Fenris' value – he fears the mages, this is different) To side the mages with a mage, don't need player knowledge. Carver chose his fate – Bethany born as a mage. You missed the point again. I was talking about Carver; you don't know about his 3 possible fates in your first pt. What's your point? I even have dead Carver – Hawke didn't take Anders to the Deep Roads, because he said, he hates the Deep Roads and Hawke had other people for the expedition. Another Hawke didn't wanted to risk Carver life, and even knew probably Leandra needs help. Another one thought Carver is a big guy, let's prove himself – and took Anders, because a grey Warden is good to the Deep Road, and even attracted him, so he tried to spend more time with him.
No one of them are metaknowledge. Absolutely imaginable without knowing Carver possibile fates – depends only Hawke's personality, his relationship with Carver, Leandra, Anders, what he thinks about Carver, Leandra and Anders...
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Post by davkar on Jan 7, 2019 12:19:29 GMT
You missed the point again. I was talking about Carver; you don't know about his 3 possible fates in your first pt. What's your point? I even have dead Carver – Hawke didn't take Anders to the Deep Roads, because he said, he hates the Deep Roads and Hawke had other people for the expedition. Another Hawke didn't wanted to risk Carver life, and even knew probably Leandra needs help. Another one thought Carver is a big guy, let's prove himself – and took Anders, because a grey Warden is good to the Deep Road, and even attracted him, so he tried to spend more time with him.
No one of them are metaknowledge. Absolutely imaginable without knowing Carver fates.
Can't explain it any better. Any Hawke other than your very first has player knowledge. Sure, you might get warden-Carver on the first try, but only after seeing the alternatives can you determine which one is the best path for him. The others are viable options too (ie dead-Carver works well in a Fenris-spare his sister ws) but warden-Carver is the best for him as a character. You don't know that in the first pt. If you did, well, good on you.
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Post by mikoto on Jan 26, 2019 22:50:37 GMT
I have immense difficulty choosing a single 'canon' world state for me. There are just so many good options, even though I repeat many decisions through my worldstates due to my beliefs and feelings. So at the moment my canon world state is...
Eliza Surana, spirit healer/shapeshifter who had a brief 'fling' with Zevran without actually progressing the relationship to 'love' status. She sided with the mages of course, saved Redcliff village, didn't defile the urn. She made peace between the Dalish and werewolves, curing them. She put Bhelen on the throne of Orzammar and sided with Caridin regarding the Anvil. At the landsmeet she won the vote and duelled Loghain herself. She had Anora and Alistair marry while recruiting Loghain as a Grey Warden so she didn't do Morrigan's dark ritual and had Loghain sacrifice himself to the Archdemon in a curiously heartwarming redemption story. Lets see, in Awakening she chose to save Amaranthine but had fully upgraded and fortified the Keep. She chose to kill the Architect. In Witch Hunt she allowed Morrigan to go through the Eluvian without stabbing her.
Natasha Hawke, spirit healer/force mage who didn't romance any of her companions. She indentured herself to the Red Iron mercenaries, sent Feynriel to the Dalish and stayed neutral in matters between the Viscount and his son. She also protected the mages hiding in the cave on the wounded coast and killed Karras I think the name of the Templar was? Anyway she left Carver behind when she went to the Deep Roads so he joined the Templars. She didn't get enough friendship or rivalry with Isabela to get her to bring the Qunari book back, and thus ended up slaughtering the Arishok and his Qunari henchmen. (Deliberate choice, no way I wanted the book going back to the Qunari.) She didn't side with Talis, for all the good it did. Helped Feynriel stabilize his mind so he could leave for Tevinter. At the end she sided with the mages against Meredith.
Olivia Trevelyan, rift mage who ended up romancing Cullen. She allied with the mages, recruited all possible companions, and sacrificed Stroud in the Fade. She reunited Celene and Briala whilst ensuring the Empress kept her throne. She solved the puzzles at the Temple of Mythal and thus spared Abelas. She allowed Morrigan to drink from the Well of Sorrows after breaking Samson's armour. At the end of Trespasser she married Cullen and had the Inquisition disband.
That's my canon worldstate, since I enjoy playing mages for the most part though of course I do have worldstates with a Lavellan, Adaar and a male warrior Trevelyan.
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Feb 13, 2019 2:01:00 GMT
Sometimes forced aspects of the character also inform my decision on how I want to choose a canon character. In the case of Inquisition, the Inquisitor is made to be magical through story events. So, I feel compelled to prefer magical characters for canon. The candidates that work best as Inquisitor are Tempest Rogue, Templar or Reaver Warrior, and any flavor of mage. I like to limit my magic customs to begin with, so I feel I should make use of the circumstances. I was considering a "magical" Champion previously, but, as mentioned, felt that the choice didn't make the best use of the opportunity. I have decided instead to use a female Qunari for the Bull romance as canon, but haven't determined which class or build to utilize. I am deciding between a mostly Spirit Necromancer mage, or a triple hybrid using the rogue class as a base, specializing as an Artificer (magic teleport and traps) or Tempest (elements and taunt), using Mark of the Rift, front-damaging Twin Fangs, Hook and Tackle, Poison Weapons, either Caltrops or Throwing Knives depending on the specialization, an off-class version of the Armor of the Dragon, dual wielding axes (Barbarian Rock-Crasher is a pickaxe, and Blade of Red Birth is a cleaver), either Andraste's Sacrifice (taunting and guard) or Amulet of Barrier, and numerous masterwork materials for added spells or abilities. I would like to tag vertigomez and copper (since you have offered great insight before) for your opinions on the matter, and would like to hear from anyone else who might help me decide. Thanks in advance.
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Post by copper on Feb 13, 2019 4:35:41 GMT
I'm flattered that you value my input! Unfortunately I haven't actually played Inquisition for myself yet, so I can't offer any advice on those classes specifically. Ridiculously late, I know, but there's a few factors making me hold back on getting a system that can run it for now.
In general though I tend to choose class based on what I personally enjoy playing and what I think meshes well with the character. So in Origins my dwarf noble is a shield using warrior despite being politically sleazy, since Orzammar's politics appear honorable on the surface. Plus I just like bashing people with a shield. Sorry I can't be of more help.
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