copper
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by copper on Feb 12, 2018 1:57:19 GMT
My current canon is a male dwarf noble warrior who romances Morrigan but does the ultimate sacrifice, followed by a sarcastic male mage Hawke who romances Fenris. My canon when I play Inquisition will definitely feature a female character since my warden and Hawke were both men. I'm undecided on race and class though until I know more about our protagonist in DA4.
I like my protagonists to be somewhat different in terms of background and morals. The dwarven origins in Origins are easily my favorites, with dwarf noble edging into my canon pick since you can realistically roleplay them as missing Orzammar when they're exiled, which I found interesting. Since the warden's story is over but Bioware also won't just let them be with their weird rumors about them being involved in something big, I prefer to conclude my warden's story with the ultimate sacrifice. And since he romances Morrigan she still has Kieran in Inquisition.
For Hawke I have no choice but to be a male mage, since I love male Hawke's voice acting and prefer Carver to Bethany. I ended up really liking the chemistry between sarcastic Hawke and Fenris, which wasn't really intentional on my part but ended up working pretty well.
At this point I'm leaning toward my inquisitor being a female dwarf with whichever class I find most fun to play. If race selection is still in DA4 I might be an elf instead, so that in DA4 I can be a Qunari and have all four Dragon Age races being heros.
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TheEmptyRoad
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: The3mptyRoad
PSN: TheEmptyRoad
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Post by TheEmptyRoad on Feb 12, 2018 5:27:26 GMT
How do you choose your 'canon' or favorite world state across all three games?
I base my Warden-Commander/Hero of Ferelden and Champion of Kirkwall on 2 things
1.) Most likely scenario/origin, given what we know about the story so far.
2.) Both the Hero and Champion were pegged to attend the Conclave and lead the Inquisition before the Herald fell out of the Fade. This informs my characterization of them in the Keep and subsequent playthroughs.
This also lends credence to the Hero being either a Circle Mage or a Human/Dwarf Noble. A Respected Mage or Heroic Nobility/Royalty accustomed to leading others. Again if the Mage/Dwarf secured a position at Court, or the Human Noble angled their way into being Queen/Prince-Consort in their dealings at the Landsmeet.
It also tells me that the Hero did not romance Leliana, given that she couldn’t locate them for the Conclave. In all other references of a Hero/Leliana romance they have no trouble finding each other.
As for the Champion, this tells me they likely sided with the Templars to curb Meredith’s extremism and turned against her when she threatened Circle!Bethany or the Champion themselves. A Champion who then ascends to be Viscount after the Templars beg them to restore order to the city.
Game Specific Origins: I’ve narrowed it down to Origins where Duncan would likely have gone, since they all ‘happen’ story-wise. While the Dalish Elf Origin is great foreshadowing for the rest of the series, Duncan just ‘happening along’ (if he’s coming south from Denerim and passing through the Brecilian Forest why isn’t Daveth with him?) and finding the Main Character is a little too contrived/convenient for my taste. City Elf is another one where he just happens to be in Denerim (again, why isn’t Daveth with him?). Both Dwarf Origins and the Human Noble Origin he was invited to, so they are a rank above the two Elf-specific ones. But the one that tops the list for me is the Circle Mage Origin and not just because, like the Dalish Elf, it’s a good foreshadowing of future conflicts, but because Duncan goes there Specifically Looking For not only additional mages for the King’s Army but also a Mage to join the Ferelden Grey Wardens. Also you complete the base-class trifecta with Jory the Warrior and Daveth the Rogue.
In DA2: Since Rogue-Hawke is my Canon (explained below). I tend to go with the Smugglers. Also because you’d be more likely to be known by the underworld contacts you have than just by being a mercenary. To me Mercenaries are ‘loud’ and would be more likely to be noticed and get Bethany noticed.
In DAI: I base my Inquisitor on likelihood of being not only at the Conclave but near enough to the ritual to have been the forst on the scene. While either Noble!Human or NobleMage!Human being at the Conclave and finding the ritual-in-progress wouldn’t be unusual I believe the most likely candidate for the Herald/Inquisitor to be one of the Vashoth Mercenaries hired to provide security. A ‘security guard doing the rounds stumbles onto something big’ sounds more likely than ‘Noble/Mage gets bored of hob nobbing and decides to take a stroll and discovers something big’. The Elf and Dwarf pretexts are rather flimsy honestly. Though I am currently working on my obligatory Solavellan Mage just to see what’s different.
Do you pick your class based purely on what you enjoy playing? At first. My first playthroughs tend to be self-inserts as a Human Mage. As far as canon world-states and playthroughs go; I like having a different class each time, one suited to the story.
I started with DA2 because I decided it works best as a Rogue’s story. Also, to complete the class trifecta of the Hawke siblings.
Then back to Origins: With Rogue out of the way, that means Mage or Warrior. As I stated above, the Circle Mage Origin makes the most sense to me, so there goes Mage, leaving...
A Vashoth Warrior Mercenary on his rounds as a Security Guard who stumbles on to the ritual and becomes the Herald and Inquisitor, maybe even finding some faith in the process.
Do you choose your romance based on how much you like the character, or how plot-relevant their romance seems to be? At first, it’s just who I’m drawn to: Morrigan, Merrill, Cassandra. I guess I have a thing for short black hair...
Morrigan also really makes sense for Origins so I kept her.
Tried Isabella in my second playthrough of DA2 and loved it, really tied into the story with the Tome of Koslun and why she came back. Also, double trouble rogues. Decided on her in the end. Though if Aveline had been a real romance option I’d have dropped that hussy in a heartbeat.
As far as Inquisition goes...I mean they all have story import in some way. I’ve wanted to romance Cassandra since DA2 so I guess I’m biased towards her. Joesphine and Cullen would be my picks for a Human Inquisitor. I do want to make a female Qunari just for Sera too...
Do you like all your protagonists to be the same race/gender/class/sexuality, or do you like to switch it up and have every hero be very different?
I thought about making my canon Inky be the epitome of anti-qunari by being a vashoth woman(living as a woman) warrior. But honestly after I thought about it, BioWare gives us so many good varieties of female characters I didn’t really feel the need to create one of my own, for canon any way. My Solavellan and Seradaar will be here in my heart though.
Racially, I do like to mix it up. My Circle Mage Warden is an elf, my Inky is a Qunari.
I do try and make distinct personalities too though inevitably my sarcasm and curiosity leak through into all of them.
As I said above for classes, I also like to switch it up that way as well.
What kind of character do you suspect you'll want to play in DA4?
No friggin clue. I’ll wait and see what the protagonist is expected to sorta do within the plot. Though we are going to Tevinter, and it’s a Mage’s turn next...
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Post by Catilina on Feb 12, 2018 9:04:29 GMT
How do you choose your 'canon' or favorite world state across all three games?
I base my Warden-Commander/Hero of Ferelden and Champion of Kirkwall on 2 things
1.) Most likely scenario/origin, given what we know about the story so far.
2.) Both the Hero and Champion were pegged to attend the Conclave and lead the Inquisition before the Herald fell out of the Fade. This informs my characterization of them in the Keep and subsequent playthroughs.
This also lends credence to the Hero being either a Circle Mage or a Human/Dwarf Noble. A Respected Mage or Heroic Nobility/Royalty accustomed to leading others. Again if the Mage/Dwarf secured a position at Court, or the Human Noble angled their way into being Queen/Prince-Consort in their dealings at the Landsmeet.
It also tells me that the Hero did not romance Leliana, given that she couldn’t locate them for the Conclave. In all other references of a Hero/Leliana romance they have no trouble finding each other.
As for the Champion, this tells me they likely sided with the Templars to curb Meredith’s extremism and turned against her when she threatened Circle!Bethany or the Champion themselves. A Champion who then ascends to be Viscount after the Templars beg them to restore order to the city. Game Specific Origins: I’ve narrowed it down to Origins where Duncan would likely have gone, since they all ‘happen’ story-wise. While the Dalish Elf Origin is great foreshadowing for the rest of the series, Duncan just ‘happening along’ (if he’s coming south from Denerim and passing through the Brecilian Forest why isn’t Daveth with him?) and finding the Main Character is a little too contrived/convenient for my taste. City Elf is another one where he just happens to be in Denerim (again, why isn’t Daveth with him?). Both Dwarf Origins and the Human Noble Origin he was invited to, so they are a rank above the two Elf-specific ones. But the one that tops the list for me is the Circle Mage Origin and not just because, like the Dalish Elf, it’s a good foreshadowing of future conflicts, but because Duncan goes there Specifically Looking For not only additional mages for the King’s Army but also a Mage to join the Ferelden Grey Wardens. Also you complete the base-class trifecta with Jory the Warrior and Daveth the Rogue.
In DA2: Since Rogue-Hawke is my Canon (explained below). I tend to go with the Smugglers. Also because you’d be more likely to be known by the underworld contacts you have than just by being a mercenary. To me Mercenaries are ‘loud’ and would be more likely to be noticed and get Bethany noticed.
In DAI: I base my Inquisitor on likelihood of being not only at the Conclave but near enough to the ritual to have been the forst on the scene. While either Noble!Human or NobleMage!Human being at the Conclave and finding the ritual-in-progress wouldn’t be unusual I believe the most likely candidate for the Herald/Inquisitor to be one of the Vashoth Mercenaries hired to provide security. A ‘security guard doing the rounds stumbles onto something big’ sounds more likely than ‘Noble/Mage gets bored of hob nobbing and decides to take a stroll and discovers something big’. The Elf and Dwarf pretexts are rather flimsy honestly. Though I am currently working on my obligatory Solavellan Mage just to see what’s different.
Do you pick your class based purely on what you enjoy playing? At first. My first playthroughs tend to be self-inserts as a Human Mage. As far as canon world-states and playthroughs go; I like having a different class each time, one suited to the story.
I started with DA2 because I decided it works best as a Rogue’s story. Also, to complete the class trifecta of the Hawke siblings.
Then back to Origins: With Rogue out of the way, that means Mage or Warrior. As I stated above, the Circle Mage Origin makes the most sense to me, so there goes Mage, leaving...
A Vashoth Warrior Mercenary on his rounds as a Security Guard who stumbles on to the ritual and becomes the Herald and Inquisitor, maybe even finding some faith in the process.
Do you choose your romance based on how much you like the character, or how plot-relevant their romance seems to be? At first, it’s just who I’m drawn to: Morrigan, Merrill, Cassandra. I guess I have a thing for short black hair...
Morrigan also really makes sense for Origins so I kept her.
Tried Isabella in my second playthrough of DA2 and loved it, really tied into the story with the Tome of Koslun and why she came back. Also, double trouble rogues. Decided on her in the end. Though if Aveline had been a real romance option I’d have dropped that hussy in a heartbeat.
As far as Inquisition goes...I mean they all have story import in some way. I’ve wanted to romance Cassandra since DA2 so I guess I’m biased towards her. Joesphine and Cullen would be my picks for a Human Inquisitor. I do want to make a female Qunari just for Sera too...
Do you like all your protagonists to be the same race/gender/class/sexuality, or do you like to switch it up and have every hero be very different?
I thought about making my canon Inky be the epitome of anti-qunari by being a vashoth woman(living as a woman) warrior. But honestly after I thought about it, BioWare gives us so many good varieties of female characters I didn’t really feel the need to create one of my own, for canon any way. My Solavellan and Seradaar will be here in my heart though.
Racially, I do like to mix it up. My Circle Mage Warden is an elf, my Inky is a Qunari.
I do try and make distinct personalities too though inevitably my sarcasm and curiosity leak through into all of them.
As I said above for classes, I also like to switch it up that way as well.
What kind of character do you suspect you'll want to play in DA4?
No friggin clue. I’ll wait and see what the protagonist is expected to sorta do within the plot. Though we are going to Tevinter, and it’s a Mage’s turn next... This is an Interesting view logically: to betraying Bethany to save Bethany? But she doesn't want this protection... Bethany asks Hawke to help the mages, not assist to kill the mages, herself (she's a mage). True, she not even protest against. And Meredith... How Hawke think, s/he can turn against her, at the moment, when s/he chooses a side? Not even dreams about the Viscount title: Meredith never shows any interest in giving up the government. (And Dumar was a puppet, why Hawke wouldn't if Bethany hostage in the circle...) Meredith's not that reliable woman: in fact, unpredictable and mad, this seems until the Act1. And even seems, the Templars' majority –lead by Cullen– supports her, even if sometimes question her sanity. And in the Inquisition, it's clear: the Templars betrayed Hawke finally and exiled him/her... So: to betray Bethany not worthy.
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davkar
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by davkar on Feb 12, 2018 15:52:46 GMT
How do you choose your 'canon' or favorite world state across all three games?
I base my Warden-Commander/Hero of Ferelden and Champion of Kirkwall on 2 things
1.) Most likely scenario/origin, given what we know about the story so far.
2.) Both the Hero and Champion were pegged to attend the Conclave and lead the Inquisition before the Herald fell out of the Fade. This informs my characterization of them in the Keep and subsequent playthroughs.
This also lends credence to the Hero being either a Circle Mage or a Human/Dwarf Noble. A Respected Mage or Heroic Nobility/Royalty accustomed to leading others. Again if the Mage/Dwarf secured a position at Court, or the Human Noble angled their way into being Queen/Prince-Consort in their dealings at the Landsmeet.
It also tells me that the Hero did not romance Leliana, given that she couldn’t locate them for the Conclave. In all other references of a Hero/Leliana romance they have no trouble finding each other.
As for the Champion, this tells me they likely sided with the Templars to curb Meredith’s extremism and turned against her when she threatened Circle!Bethany or the Champion themselves. A Champion who then ascends to be Viscount after the Templars beg them to restore order to the city. Game Specific Origins: I’ve narrowed it down to Origins where Duncan would likely have gone, since they all ‘happen’ story-wise. While the Dalish Elf Origin is great foreshadowing for the rest of the series, Duncan just ‘happening along’ (if he’s coming south from Denerim and passing through the Brecilian Forest why isn’t Daveth with him?) and finding the Main Character is a little too contrived/convenient for my taste. City Elf is another one where he just happens to be in Denerim (again, why isn’t Daveth with him?). Both Dwarf Origins and the Human Noble Origin he was invited to, so they are a rank above the two Elf-specific ones. But the one that tops the list for me is the Circle Mage Origin and not just because, like the Dalish Elf, it’s a good foreshadowing of future conflicts, but because Duncan goes there Specifically Looking For not only additional mages for the King’s Army but also a Mage to join the Ferelden Grey Wardens. Also you complete the base-class trifecta with Jory the Warrior and Daveth the Rogue.
In DA2: Since Rogue-Hawke is my Canon (explained below). I tend to go with the Smugglers. Also because you’d be more likely to be known by the underworld contacts you have than just by being a mercenary. To me Mercenaries are ‘loud’ and would be more likely to be noticed and get Bethany noticed.
In DAI: I base my Inquisitor on likelihood of being not only at the Conclave but near enough to the ritual to have been the forst on the scene. While either Noble!Human or NobleMage!Human being at the Conclave and finding the ritual-in-progress wouldn’t be unusual I believe the most likely candidate for the Herald/Inquisitor to be one of the Vashoth Mercenaries hired to provide security. A ‘security guard doing the rounds stumbles onto something big’ sounds more likely than ‘Noble/Mage gets bored of hob nobbing and decides to take a stroll and discovers something big’. The Elf and Dwarf pretexts are rather flimsy honestly. Though I am currently working on my obligatory Solavellan Mage just to see what’s different.
Do you pick your class based purely on what you enjoy playing? At first. My first playthroughs tend to be self-inserts as a Human Mage. As far as canon world-states and playthroughs go; I like having a different class each time, one suited to the story.
I started with DA2 because I decided it works best as a Rogue’s story. Also, to complete the class trifecta of the Hawke siblings.
Then back to Origins: With Rogue out of the way, that means Mage or Warrior. As I stated above, the Circle Mage Origin makes the most sense to me, so there goes Mage, leaving...
A Vashoth Warrior Mercenary on his rounds as a Security Guard who stumbles on to the ritual and becomes the Herald and Inquisitor, maybe even finding some faith in the process.
Do you choose your romance based on how much you like the character, or how plot-relevant their romance seems to be? At first, it’s just who I’m drawn to: Morrigan, Merrill, Cassandra. I guess I have a thing for short black hair...
Morrigan also really makes sense for Origins so I kept her.
Tried Isabella in my second playthrough of DA2 and loved it, really tied into the story with the Tome of Koslun and why she came back. Also, double trouble rogues. Decided on her in the end. Though if Aveline had been a real romance option I’d have dropped that hussy in a heartbeat.
As far as Inquisition goes...I mean they all have story import in some way. I’ve wanted to romance Cassandra since DA2 so I guess I’m biased towards her. Joesphine and Cullen would be my picks for a Human Inquisitor. I do want to make a female Qunari just for Sera too...
Do you like all your protagonists to be the same race/gender/class/sexuality, or do you like to switch it up and have every hero be very different?
I thought about making my canon Inky be the epitome of anti-qunari by being a vashoth woman(living as a woman) warrior. But honestly after I thought about it, BioWare gives us so many good varieties of female characters I didn’t really feel the need to create one of my own, for canon any way. My Solavellan and Seradaar will be here in my heart though.
Racially, I do like to mix it up. My Circle Mage Warden is an elf, my Inky is a Qunari.
I do try and make distinct personalities too though inevitably my sarcasm and curiosity leak through into all of them.
As I said above for classes, I also like to switch it up that way as well.
What kind of character do you suspect you'll want to play in DA4?
No friggin clue. I’ll wait and see what the protagonist is expected to sorta do within the plot. Though we are going to Tevinter, and it’s a Mage’s turn next... This is an Interesting view logically: to betraying Bethany to save Bethany? But she doesn't want this protection... Bethany asks Hawke to help the mages, not assist to kill the mages, herself (she's a mage). True, she not even protest against. And Meredith... How Hawke think, s/he can turn against her, at the moment, when s/he chooses a side? Not even dreams about the Viscount title: Meredith never shows any interest in giving up the government. (And Dumar was a puppet, why Hawke wouldn't if Bethany hostage in the circle...) Meredith's not that reliable woman: in fact, unpredictable and mad, this seems until the Act1. And even seems, the Templars' majority –lead by Cullen– supports her, even if sometimes question her sanity. And in the Inquisition, it's clear: the Templars betrayed Hawke finally and exiled him/her... So: to betray Bethany not worthy. Saving Bethany is one of the reasons why I switched sides to the templars (I was pro-mage for years). The hug alone makes it worthwhile. Also the game presents the templar side as the 'bad ending' while in truth it's the better. Hawke siding with them is not about oppression and murdering poor little mages, it's about restoring order. A terrorist abomination just obliterated (optionally using Hawke) the chantry. Chaos and panic in the streets. By helping Meredith (to a point) helps minimizing the losses. Hawke has the option to spare innocent mages in the gallows. And let's not forget meatmonster Orsino, fighting him on the templar side makes sense. I've always hated his mage side "we're doomed" speech when we've literally won the battle. (Ultimately none of these matters since inqi solved the whole conflict in ~40 minutes. )
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Post by Catilina on Feb 12, 2018 16:21:37 GMT
This is an Interesting view logically: to betraying Bethany to save Bethany? But she doesn't want this protection... Bethany asks Hawke to help the mages, not assist to kill the mages, herself (she's a mage). True, she not even protest against.
And Meredith... How Hawke think, s/he can turn against her, at the moment, when s/he chooses a side? Not even dreams about the Viscount title: Meredith never shows any interest in giving up the government. (And Dumar was a puppet, why Hawke wouldn't if Bethany hostage in the circle...) Meredith's not that reliable woman: in fact, unpredictable and mad, this seems until the Act1. And even seems, the Templars' majority –lead by Cullen– supports her, even if sometimes question her sanity. And in the Inquisition, it's clear: the Templars betrayed Hawke finally and exiled him/her... So: to betray Bethany not worthy. Saving Bethany is one of the reasons why I switched sides to the templars (I was pro-mage for years). The hug alone makes it worthwhile. Also the game presents the templar side as the 'bad ending' while in truth it's the better. Hawke siding with them is not about oppression and murdering poor little mages, it's about restoring order. A terrorist abomination just obliterated (optionally using Hawke) the chantry. Chaos and panic in the streets. By helping Meredith (to a point) helps minimizing the losses. Hawke has the option to spare innocent mages in the gallows. And let's not forget meatmonster Orsino, fighting him on the templar side makes sense. I've always hated his mage side "we're doomed" speech when we've literally won the battle. (Ultimately none of these matters since inqi solved the whole conflict in ~40 minutes. ) At the moment, Hawke don't know, he has a chance to save the mages. I saw that hug in YouTube, and this was so pathetic! If I would Bethany, I would rather hit that bastard instead. Sadly, Bethany's a martyr. If Hawke declares, she must suffer more, she accept that – this is one of the saddest moments in DA2. The only reason to chose Templars at the end is Templar Carver, if Hawke wants to avoid the fight against his brother, but even can consider: Carver chose his fate, and would able to leave that shit, if don't want to face him/her. And at the moment Hawke doesn't know, that Orsino become a monster, nor even that s/he will able to kill Meredith at the end. S/He only knows, that Meredith jeopardizes the whole city, and wants to kill many innocents. And Orsino doesn't matter, and never mattered. Hawke chose between a lunatic murderer, who always was the cancer of the city, and the innocent mages. Really can worth to betray the last remaining family member, for a simple sad hug? And force her life imprisonment? She just wants to live as everyone else. Her only chance for it, the revolution. And she welcomes it. Many times I read this argue, that to support the Templars for Bethany, but this isn't right. Bethany doesn't want this. She ask Hawke to support her people... if Hawke refuse that, "for her sake" Hawke doesn't love her in the right way and doesn'r respect her. (Anders was right, but not this the place to argue)
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Gileadan
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 12, 2018 16:45:27 GMT
In almost all cases, my first playthrough is my canon playthrough, since it's the one I played free of spoilers and meta knowledge. I always romance the character I like best and don't care at all about how plot relevant they may be - I wouldn't find a romance enjoyable if I didn't like the character in question. That would be like watching a romantic movie where the protagonists have no chemistry. Choosing my character's class and personality is something I do very impulsively during character generation. As the looks take shape while I click around, so does their personality and class. I do have a tendency to pick non-magical human characters though, since I like my adventures to be about a rather average person traveling through an amazing world and growing in both might and learning during their journey. If I played as a non-human or a mage, the things that should be new and exotic would be familiar instead (or should be, given the character's background), so to say - not sure if that made much sense, but there you go.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 12, 2018 16:51:20 GMT
If I played as a non-human or a mage, the things that should be new and exotic would be familiar instead (or should be, given the character's background), so to say - not sure if that made much sense, but there you go. I get what you're saying! FWIW this is why I enjoy playing a dwarf in Origins - it's flipped around so that the surface is new and exotic, and you're a stranger in a strange land. I love that aspect so much!
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TheEmptyRoad
N2
Honor is a fool's prize, glory is no use to the dead.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: The3mptyRoad
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Post by TheEmptyRoad on Feb 12, 2018 17:32:05 GMT
Oy vey...every time... Look, I get it, you don't like Templars, Mages should be completely 'free', Anders did nothing wrong, etc.
You don't seem to get that I'm interested in telling a coherent story. The Hero of Ferelden was a Mage who saved the Circle Tower in Ferelden, thus potentially giving the Hands of the Divine a relatively Pro-Mage perspective. The Champion in contrast, should give the Hands a somewhat Pro-Templar perspective. Especially a Champion who undercuts Meredith's authority by sparing surrendering Mages and siding with-wait for it-CULLEN who (thanks to the actions of the Hero of Ferelden) believes the right of annulment is not needed since the Ferelden Tower was worse than the Gallows and still there were Mages fighting against the Demons who did not succumb to possession. A Magical rabble-rouser who sided (or even appeared to side) with Anders would never have been tapped as a potential leader for an Andrastian Inquisition called by the Divine. It would make no sense. By siding with the mages you have no opportunity to moderate the conflict by undercutting Meredith with Cullen, you only make her more paranoid sooner and force both sides to give no quarter. As a final note, Meredith went crazy from Red Lyrium, Orsino by contrast HELPED HIDE THE BLOOD MAGE MURDERER who killed Hawke's mother because #MuhMageRights and fearing Meredith would crack down more on the Circle. What backwards thinking, it's actions like that that only lend credence to Meredith's paranoia about the Circle in the first place. Seriously though, Fuck Orsino, he's an accessory to murder and worse. Contrast this with how the Templars deal with corrupt members of their ranks, they PUNISH them. /rant
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Post by Catilina on Feb 12, 2018 18:07:58 GMT
Oy vey...every time... Look, I get it, you don't like Templars, Mages should be completely 'free', Anders did nothing wrong, etc. You don't seem to get that I'm interested in telling a coherent story. The Hero of Ferelden was a Mage who saved the Circle Tower in Ferelden, thus potentially giving the Hands of the Divine a relatively Pro-Mage perspective. The Champion in contrast, should give the Hands a somewhat Pro-Templar perspective. Especially a Champion who undercuts Meredith's authority by sparing surrendering Mages and siding with-wait for it-CULLEN who (thanks to the actions of the Hero of Ferelden) believes the right of annulment is not needed since the Ferelden Tower was worse than the Gallows and still there were Mages fighting against the Demons who did not succumb to possession. A Magical rabble-rouser who sided (or even appeared to side) with Anders would never have been tapped as a potential leader for an Andrastian Inquisition called by the Divine. It would make no sense. By siding with the mages you have no opportunity to moderate the conflict by undercutting Meredith with Cullen, you only make her more paranoid sooner and force both sides to give no quarter. As a final note, Meredith went crazy from Red Lyrium, Orsino by contrast HELPED HIDE THE BLOOD MAGE MURDERER who killed Hawke's mother because #MuhMageRights and fearing Meredith would crack down more on the Circle. What backwards thinking, it's actions like that that only lend credence to Meredith's paranoia about the Circle in the first place. Seriously though, Fuck Orsino, he's an accessory to murder and worse. Contrast this with how the Templars deal with corrupt members of their ranks, they PUNISH them. /rant You also commit that mistake, just many others: you treat Orsino as Meredith's opposite. But Orsino's nothing. He simply no matter in the issue. He's only a senior prisoner, no more, but Meredith's a real danger. Your arc-conception seems logical in metagaming, but not really logical. Cullen in the DA2 more and more questioned Meredith's mental state, but not her view in the Mages issues. But his reason to leave the Order and a little bit (not at all!) questions his own views was the fact: Meredith became an "abomination", as a fool (blood) mage, as Uldred (I love it – she thought she strong enough to handle a weird, powerful magical thing, what give her more power over the mages and the city...). Not the red lyrium was the reason, became paranoid madwoman, she was even before, we can see that in Act1. The red lyrium was the consequence of her lunacy, not the reason for her lunacy. (I love when Anders says at the final battle: "She clearly lost her mind") So: Cullen has reason to leave the Templar Order, no matter, which side Hawke chose. Cullen saw, that his idol fallen, and more and more Templars went mad. (Later they betrayed Viscount Hawke. True, probably Viscount Hawke fits more that burned out bitter wo/man, who appealed in the Inquisition...) Just one question: where you saw one punished Templar except Samson, who was punished because of a love letter (and his "instigator" became Tranquil). No one of them punished, not even Alric... before Hawke and Anders killed him. Or wait: there's a Templar who once didn't agree with Meredith, removed, just as Samson... So? This is what you spoke about?
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Feb 12, 2018 18:30:20 GMT
It also tells me that the Hero did not romance Leliana, given that she couldn’t locate them for the Conclave. In all other references of a Hero/Leliana romance they have no trouble finding each other. As a canon Leliana romancer, I can understand your distate for the vague or conflicting nature of Leliana's response. As I remember, it only really stands out in the epilogue cutscene at the end of Dragon Age 2. Mentions of "missing" and "coincidences" that force us to think that either Leliana is committing a lie of omission where she knows that the Warden left but not where, or that she believes the Maker has orchestrated the absence to open a different path. The dialogue probably was supposed to lead into some plot thread that never made it into Inquisition however. Once the Conclave is destroyed, events unfold out of necessity and new plans are made. I don't feel there were any issues in Leliana's Warden romance dialogue strewn througout Inquisition.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 12, 2018 18:38:37 GMT
It also tells me that the Hero did not romance Leliana, given that she couldn’t locate them for the Conclave. In all other references of a Hero/Leliana romance they have no trouble finding each other. As a canon Leliana romancer, I can understand your distate for the vague or conflicting nature of Leliana's response. As I remember, it only really stands out in the epilogue cutscene at the end of Dragon Age 2. Mentions of "missing" and "coincidences" that force us to think that either Leliana is committing a lie of omission where she knows that the Warden left but not where, or that she believes the Maker has orchestrated the absence to open a different path. The dialogue probably was supposed to lead into some plot thread that never made it into Inquisition however. Once the Conclave is destroyed, events unfold out of necessity and new plans are made. I don't feel there were any issues in Leliana's Warden romance dialogue strewn througout Inquisition. ^ It was actually Leliana's romance dialogue in DAI that convinced me to romance her in DAO! I was never interested in her in Origins - I'd go so far as to say I actively disliked her and left her at camp 99% of the time - but I enjoyed her arc in DAI so much that I went back and romanced her. I like the way that she speaks so softly and fondly of the Warden despite her grief over the Conclave and Justinia's death, and I love that she remains with the Warden if she becomes Divine (and her commitment to non-humans and mages is especially poignant if you romanced her as a dwarf, elf, or mage).
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Post by davkar on Feb 12, 2018 18:46:44 GMT
Saving Bethany is one of the reasons why I switched sides to the templars (I was pro-mage for years). The hug alone makes it worthwhile. Also the game presents the templar side as the 'bad ending' while in truth it's the better. Hawke siding with them is not about oppression and murdering poor little mages, it's about restoring order. A terrorist abomination just obliterated (optionally using Hawke) the chantry. Chaos and panic in the streets. By helping Meredith (to a point) helps minimizing the losses. Hawke has the option to spare innocent mages in the gallows. And let's not forget meatmonster Orsino, fighting him on the templar side makes sense. I've always hated his mage side "we're doomed" speech when we've literally won the battle. (Ultimately none of these matters since inqi solved the whole conflict in ~40 minutes. ) At the moment, Hawke don't know, he has a chance to save the mages. I saw that hug in YouTube, and this was so pathetic! If I would Bethany, I would rather hit that bastard instead. Sadly, Bethany's a martyr. If Hawke declares, she must suffer more, she accept that – this is one of the saddest moments in DA2. The only reason to chose Templars at the end is Templar Carver, if Hawke wants to avoid the fight against his brother, but even can consider: Carver chose his fate, and would able to leave that shit, if don't want to face him/her. And at the moment Hawke doesn't know, that Orsino become a monster, nor even that s/he will able to kill Meredith at the end. S/He only knows, that Meredith jeopardizes the whole city, and wants to kill many innocents. And Orsino doesn't matter, and never mattered. Hawke chose between a lunatic murderer, who always was the cancer of the city, and the innocent mages. Really can worth to betray the last remaining family member, for a simple sad hug? And force her life imprisonment? She just wants to live as everyone else. Her only chance for it, the revolution. And she welcomes it. Many times I read this argue, that to support the Templars for Bethany, but this isn't right. Bethany doesn't want this. She ask Hawke to support her people... if Hawke refuse that, "for her sake" Hawke doesn't love her in the right way and doesn'r respect her. (Anders was right, but not this the place to argue)Sure Meredith is a paranoid bisss at this point (by default or the idols influence who knows for sure). Siding with her is a chance curb her bloodlust, to save lives, both innocent and mages. Hawke and co only killed those who deserved it/were beyond reason and redemption. Lots of the mages were just waiting for the greenlight to go crazy (see the route to the docks). Saving Bethany is done out of love. Templar Carver showing some backbone is a similar deal, despite his constant bitching he does love Hawke. To let Meredith kill Beth... I don't know, you have to play the reddest of red ahole just for the sake of it and even then it wouldn't make sense. Orsino is dead, the blood mages are dead, the spared innocent mages can be sorted out later, she can call off the annulment. Now she wants to kill Hawke's sister because she's a mage? Gurl we helped you restore order, now kindly fok off. Defying Meredith also makes her turning against Hawke more 'acceptable'. Oh, and Anders was nowhere near right. That ass had absolutely no moral high ground. Killing innocents to incite a war? How is that acceptable? You might as well endorse real life terrorism... Now if he had blown up the gates of the Gallows and rallied the mages on the main square with a "now or never, fight together brothers and sister fooh freedom!" speech then sure, I would support him. But for the needless mass murder he gets the mk every time. Too bad we didn't have the option for a more fitting punishment like tranquility or hanging. I don't even mind that Fiona gets the blame for the mage rebellion, this abomination deserves to be forgotten.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 12, 2018 18:52:26 GMT
It also tells me that the Hero did not romance Leliana, given that she couldn’t locate them for the Conclave. In all other references of a Hero/Leliana romance they have no trouble finding each other. As a canon Leliana romancer, I can understand your distate for the vague or conflicting nature of Leliana's response. As I remember, it only really stands out in the epilogue cutscene at the end of Dragon Age 2. Mentions of "missing" and "coincidences" that force us to think that either Leliana is committing a lie of omission where she knows that the Warden left but not where, or that she believes the Maker has orchestrated the absence to open a different path. The dialogue probably was supposed to lead into some plot thread that never made it into Inquisition however. Once the Conclave is destroyed, events unfold out of necessity and new plans are made. I don't feel there were any issues in Leliana's Warden romance dialogue strewn througout Inquisition. This is a good explanation. Similar to Varric and Hawke's case. (Casandra's the most naive Seeker ever, and Varric's the best friend...) But even possible she doesn't know about where's the Warden at the moment, exactly, so she doesn't "lie"... (By the way, If I would romance Leliana, its because I love that end if she became Divine, and abolishes the celibacy... I love Leliana!)
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Post by Lazarillo on Feb 12, 2018 18:59:48 GMT
As a canon Leliana romancer, I can understand your distate for the vague or conflicting nature of Leliana's response. As I remember, it only really stands out in the epilogue cutscene at the end of Dragon Age 2. Mentions of "missing" and "coincidences" that force us to think that either Leliana is committing a lie of omission where she knows that the Warden left but not where, or that she believes the Maker has orchestrated the absence to open a different path. She also says it at the beginning of Inquisition if you ask her about the Warden, though, doesn't she? As a would-be canon Leliana romancer, I just wish they cleared it up, even if she was lying, I would've liked some sort of excuse.
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Post by davkar on Feb 12, 2018 19:18:24 GMT
As a canon Leliana romancer, I can understand your distate for the vague or conflicting nature of Leliana's response. As I remember, it only really stands out in the epilogue cutscene at the end of Dragon Age 2. Mentions of "missing" and "coincidences" that force us to think that either Leliana is committing a lie of omission where she knows that the Warden left but not where, or that she believes the Maker has orchestrated the absence to open a different path. The dialogue probably was supposed to lead into some plot thread that never made it into Inquisition however. Once the Conclave is destroyed, events unfold out of necessity and new plans are made. I don't feel there were any issues in Leliana's Warden romance dialogue strewn througout Inquisition. ^ It was actually Leliana's romance dialogue in DAI that convinced me to romance her in DAO! I was never interested in her in Origins - I'd go so far as to say I actively disliked her and left her at camp 99% of the time - but I enjoyed her arc in DAI so much that I went back and romanced her. I like the way that she speaks so softly and fondly of the Warden despite her grief over the Conclave and Justinia's death, and I love that she remains with the Warden if she becomes Divine (and her commitment to non-humans and mages is especially poignant if you romanced her as a dwarf, elf, or mage). Leli is one of the biggest canon influences for me. Romanced in DAO? US or ritual? Softened or Hardened? Divine or spymaster? Dead* or alive? She is the best with a mage warden due to her views on magic and mages. If she was romanced she can't be divine->let's pick Cassie. Sure (gae)marriage pope is an option, I just prefer beachvilla-spymaster. Not long ago I tried out the US Leli and while I messed up the inqi part of that world the hardened by loss/softened from finally moving on Leli has canon potential. *Lyrium-demon divine is interesting choice too. In T9 she died in DAO and as we know from the trespasser epilogue 'she' was a lyrium ghost. The plan was to make Viv divine in this ws but she lost by 1 point so a hardened Leli became Victoria. I assume the LG impersonating her is some kind of a spirit. It came to this world in good faith - pun intended - so hardening it might have twisted it from its original purpose. BW probably won't follow up on this possibility but this is a "Solas, I don't care about your speeches" level easter egg material.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 12, 2018 19:24:11 GMT
At the moment, Hawke don't know, he has a chance to save the mages. I saw that hug in YouTube, and this was so pathetic! If I would Bethany, I would rather hit that bastard instead. Sadly, Bethany's a martyr. If Hawke declares, she must suffer more, she accept that – this is one of the saddest moments in DA2. The only reason to chose Templars at the end is Templar Carver, if Hawke wants to avoid the fight against his brother, but even can consider: Carver chose his fate, and would able to leave that shit, if don't want to face him/her. And at the moment Hawke doesn't know, that Orsino become a monster, nor even that s/he will able to kill Meredith at the end. S/He only knows, that Meredith jeopardizes the whole city, and wants to kill many innocents. And Orsino doesn't matter, and never mattered. Hawke chose between a lunatic murderer, who always was the cancer of the city, and the innocent mages.
Really can worth to betray the last remaining family member, for a simple sad hug? And force her life imprisonment? She just wants to live as everyone else. Her only chance for it, the revolution. And she welcomes it. Many times I read this argue, that to support the Templars for Bethany, but this isn't right. Bethany doesn't want this. She ask Hawke to support her people... if Hawke refuse that, "for her sake" Hawke doesn't love her in the right way and doesn'r respect her. (Anders was right, but not this the place to argue) Sure Meredith is a paranoid bisss at this point (by default or the idols influence who knows for sure). Siding with her is a chance curb her bloodlust, to save lives, both innocent and mages. Hawke and co only killed those who deserved it/were beyond reason and redemption. Lots of the mages were just waiting for the greenlight to go crazy (see the route to the docks). Saving Bethany is done out of love. Templar Carver showing some backbone is a similar deal, despite his constant bitching he does love Hawke. To let Meredith kill Beth... I don't know, you have to play the reddest of red ahole just for the sake of it and even then it wouldn't make sense. Orsino is dead, the blood mages are dead, the spared innocent mages can be sorted out later, she can call off the annulment. Now she wants to kill Hawke's sister because she's a mage? Gurl we helped you restore order, now kindly fok off. Defying Meredith also makes her turning against Hawke more 'acceptable'.
Oh, and Anders was nowhere near right. That ass had absolutely no moral high ground. Killing innocents to incite a war? How is that acceptable? You might as well endorse real life terrorism... Now if he had blown up the gates of the Gallows and rallied the mages on the main square with a "now or never, fight together brothers and sister fooh freedom!" speech then sure, I would support him. But for the needless mass murder he gets the mk every time. Too bad we didn't have the option for a more fitting punishment like tranquility or hanging. I don't even mind that Fiona gets the blame for the mage rebellion, this abomination deserves to be forgotten. Meredith's mad by default, We know it already in Act1. The red lyrium only amplified her madness. As I said: At the moment when Hawke must choose, S/He doesn't know, he had even a little chance to save any mages including Bethany. And not even knows, s/he gets a chance to kill her and save the city from her. Only s/he knows: there a madwoman, who will destroy the Circle, and kill every mage, and rule over the City. If Hawke protects the mages, they don't want to stay, they will leave the coty so quicly as they able, this clear. So at the moment, Hawke can see if s/he supports the Mages: Kirkwall will be saved from Meredith and from the mages. Kirkwall win. Only Hawke lost his home (at the moment s/he doesn't know that, but can think that), but won a sister, who already free, and loves her brother for it. And doesn't feel as a burden... This is when Hawke protects Bethany. If s/he stand by her, not if s/he stand against her. This is the true love: let her to fight for herself, not "protect" her against her will. She's a mage, much more stronger than non-mage Hawke. She only needs some confirmation: she's not a burden, and she wants to fight. Hawke can't trust Meredith: she proved, she's unreliable. Dumar was her puppet. Hawke can't believe her benevolence. (Not everyone forgets Anders, after Kirkwall he and Hawke continued the fight and helped a lot to rebel the Circles. And this makes this romance the best of the whole series.)
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Post by phoray on Feb 12, 2018 19:28:42 GMT
(Anders was right, but not this the place to argue) hahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha I am so amused. You were like, "this is where I say Anders' way was right. But wait. People may be growing tired of me saying that. But I still want to say it. I know! I'll make it be itty-bitty font so as to be unobtrusive but still make it clear that I RAWR Anders."
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Post by phoray on Feb 12, 2018 19:34:22 GMT
It was actually Leliana's romance dialogue in DAI I was underwhelmed by her romance in DAO. I was even more underwhelmed by her romance references in DAI. how does one even get her to mention her Warden Lover, I honestly don't know if she's even mentioned her (my fem brosca). Although her reticence ties into my thought that maybe my intentionally-dumb Brosca's glow wore off and she and Brosca are on the splits.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 12, 2018 19:42:28 GMT
(Anders was right, but not this the place to argue) hahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha I am so amused. You were like, "this is where I say Anders' way was right. But wait. People may be growing tired of me saying that. But I still want to say it. I know! I'll make it be itty-bitty font so as to be unobtrusive but still make it clear that I RAWR Anders." This is me. Amazing! Ofc.
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Feb 12, 2018 19:47:46 GMT
As a canon Leliana romancer, I can understand your distate for the vague or conflicting nature of Leliana's response. As I remember, it only really stands out in the epilogue cutscene at the end of Dragon Age 2. Mentions of "missing" and "coincidences" that force us to think that either Leliana is committing a lie of omission where she knows that the Warden left but not where, or that she believes the Maker has orchestrated the absence to open a different path. She also says it at the beginning of Inquisition if you ask her about the Warden, though, doesn't she? As a would-be canon Leliana romancer, I just wish they cleared it up, even if she was lying, I would've liked some sort of excuse. It was actually Leliana's romance dialogue in DAI I was underwhelmed by her romance in DAO. I was even more underwhelmed by her romance references in DAI. how does one even get her to mention her Warden Lover, I honestly don't know if she's even mentioned her (my fem brosca). Although her reticence ties into my thought that maybe my intentionally-dumb Brosca's glow wore off and she and Brosca are on the splits. It has been a little while since I played through my canon run, so I googled around to see if I could find the information. I discovered this compilation video on youtube that splices together all of the Warden romance mentions:
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Post by phoray on Feb 12, 2018 19:48:45 GMT
You don't seem to get that I'm interested in telling a coherent story. The Hero of Ferelden was a Mage who saved the Circle Tower in Ferelden, thus potentially giving the Hands of the Divine a relatively Pro-Mage perspective. The Champion in contrast, should give the Hands a somewhat Pro-Templar perspective. I like how your theory carries you towards choosing you protags. But as someone who doesn't choose them that way, I thought the general explaination of "well known hero figure" was enough of reason to seek them out in a world short on heros. Hawke can only rep one sie, but Hero of Fereldan wasn't involved in templar/mages at all, they just saved a country from the Blight. HoF obviously had the charisma to talk large groups of people together, some that rampantly dislike each other, in order to protect a nation, regardless of their personal preferences on the Templar/Mage front. So, no matter what the Hero of Fereldan believes, both sides of the debate will follow them due to their historical good deeds and obvious charisma. LEaving Hawke to be whoever you want to be or side. Edit Add: Additionally, HoF was sought out FIRST, and when not found, they went to look for Hawke. It was never their goal to get both of them to the Conclave.
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Post by phoray on Feb 12, 2018 20:04:25 GMT
It has been a little while since I played through my canon run, so I googled around to see if I could find the information. I discovered this compilation video on youtube that splices together all of the Warden romance mentions: ah, thanks. Maybe it's because I don't much like Leliana, but you can't say you split with your partner because "life and oath debts" and then promise you'll never part ways again come the end of Inquisition and have me believe you. There will always be another thing to do when it comes to Leliana's "work". She was chosen by the Maker, don'tcha know
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Post by Lazarillo on Feb 12, 2018 20:09:20 GMT
It has been a little while since I played through my canon run, so I googled around to see if I could find the information. I discovered this compilation video on youtube that splices together all of the Warden romance mentions: Hmm, I thought she said the same thing about a romanced Warden at the beginning that she did about unromanced, something like "I have heard from her in some time, it's unsettling". Guess not. Well, that solves my biggest issue, admittedly, but the inconsistency still bums me. Maybe I should restart Tabris again and do a complete "gut instinct" run to see where it takes me.
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Feb 12, 2018 20:19:03 GMT
It has been a little while since I played through my canon run, so I googled around to see if I could find the information. ah, thanks. Maybe it's because I don't much like Leliana, but you can't say you split with your partner because "life and oath debts" and then promise you'll never part ways again come the end of Inquisition and have me believe you. There will always be another thing to do when it comes to Leliana's "work". She was chosen by the Maker, don'tcha know The way it plays out works for my story at least. I never make Leliana Divine. My Inquisitor is Andrastian, but comes from an "othered" race. Above all, my Inquisitor desires acceptance, and strives to restore things back to the status quo...mostly. Vivienne becomes elected Divine Victoria, and my epilogue says Leliana has a villa where she and the Warden spend all of their free time together.
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Post by Zemgus on Feb 12, 2018 20:27:13 GMT
It's usually the characters I first played the game with. I mean my Warden's origin has changed, my Hawke's gender has changed and very first Inquisitor never made it anywhere past that first vanilla game playthrough (my canon Inquisitor is the one I created right after that first playthrough) but in general that's the idea. Same choices I made in the first playthrough with small tweaks here and there as I get to know my characters better (for reference I play the games through multiple times with the same character and have only 3 worldstates currently)
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