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Post by Walter Black on Feb 14, 2018 2:50:30 GMT
I don't remember if Duncan ever came out and directly said so, but I'm pretty sure Ser Gilmore was a cover story. I think he had heard about the warden's skills and was really there for Cousland all along. And he knew he would at least have a consolation prize in Ser Gilmore if he couldn't convince Cousland to join. What I don't get is why he'd want a Cousland so bad in the first place. We're young, maybe we have some skills, but we're certainly not renowned/won a tourney/anywhere close to being a Knight like Ser Gilmore. Other than the mage origin (cuz mages are vital) and the city elf origin (child of a hardcore combatant mom Duncan had known and been fond of) and Brosca (saw them win The Proving) I sometimes don't get why he wants any of the other origins. Aeducan and the Dalish Origin can be chalked up to "let these folks not go to waste, let's take a shot" I still don't see the point of Cousland. I always assumed Duncan wanted a Cousland for political support among the nobility, since Wardens weren't exactly popular in Fereldan. Granted, our Cousland could wind up despising being conscripted, but Duncan couldn't have known what would happened.
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Post by phoray on Feb 14, 2018 3:17:02 GMT
I always assumed Duncan wanted a Cousland for political support among the nobility, since Wardens weren't exactly popular in Fereldan. Granted, our Cousland could wind up despising being conscripted, but Duncan couldn't have known what would happened. They lose all political clout once they drink the blood. .... I realize that isn't supported entirely in theory at the Landsmeet, BUT, all origins have clout at the Landsmeet, for their deeds in general or the special favors they finangled. Duncan couldn't have depended on anything. Cousland could have died from the Joining alone, so it seems a bit of a gamble in a country paranoid everyone else is trying to manipulate them into losing their independence.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 14, 2018 3:23:16 GMT
So, I am looking for some advice and thoughts about my indecision. I will ultimately have to decide for myself, but I am curious about other opinions. I want my canon Inquisitor to be a charming (witty/funny) male Qunari. I dislike the mage class in Inquisition, so I will be playing an archer. My indecision is over the romance option. My favorite romance is The Iron Bull, but I much prefer Bull with female characters. I actually prefer Bull with female anything but qunari (my favorite pairing would be with elves, even if I don't like playing as one. Automatic "like" if that is your thing though). My close runner-up is Lady Montilyet. I love her character, and seeing that expression when she knows she has defeated someone in a negotiation. I also like that she is a woman of color, and has a large role without actually being a party companion. My Adaar is a dedicated Andrastian whose greatest desire is acceptance and belonging. I feel like Josephine is a good match for this character. But I wonder sometimes if I should break my streak of having a human in the pairing. I romanced Leliana, and then had to be Hawke, Shepard, and Ryder, so I haven't actually had a non-human pairing yet. Or if I should split up my straight Hawke by having my gay Qunari before my straight Qunari (hoping to play that mage in DA4). Within the context of my own reasoning, my variety list leans towards Bull, while the story I want to tell leans more towards Josie. I guess I'm just looking for that little nudge. Hmmm... I'm biased because I love Josie with qunari dudes (I think it's adorable, and if I'm playing a female character I can't resist Sera loool so dudes for Josie it is) and I prefer Bull with men, though obvs they're both great with either gender. I think a world state where you have Warden x Leliana paired up and Inquisitor x Josephine paired up is really sweet because they're such good friends and deserve to be swept off their feet. I like the idea of them bonding over their loves... it's a very sweet picture in my mind (esp. if Leli's with a dwarf and Josie's with a qunari!) I think if your Inquisitor is after "acceptance and belonging", either character works. Bull takes the Inquisitor for what they are and gives them exactly what they need and there's something unbearably intimate about that, I just love it. And Josie doesn't care that she's an Uptown Girl and you're a hulking qunari merc. Good luck sorting it out! I feel your pain.
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 14, 2018 3:37:48 GMT
I always assumed Duncan wanted a Cousland for political support among the nobility, since Wardens weren't exactly popular in Fereldan. Granted, our Cousland could wind up despising being conscripted, but Duncan couldn't have known what would happened. They lose all political clout once they drink the blood. .... I realize that isn't supported entirely in theory at the Landsmeet, BUT, all origins have clout at the Landsmeet, for their deeds in general or the special favors they finangled. Duncan couldn't have depended on anything. Cousland could have died from the Joining alone, so it seems a bit of a gamble in a country paranoid everyone else is trying to manipulate them into losing their independence. Since Blights are Thedas' Godzilla Threshhold and everyone could die anyway, Duncan was probably desperate enough to consider Cousland's potential death versus having a highly influential noble in their ranks who had clout Alistair didn't (yet) worth it.
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Post by phoray on Feb 14, 2018 3:58:30 GMT
They lose all political clout once they drink the blood. .... I realize that isn't supported entirely in theory at the Landsmeet, BUT, all origins have clout at the Landsmeet, for their deeds in general or the special favors they finangled. Duncan couldn't have depended on anything. Cousland could have died from the Joining alone, so it seems a bit of a gamble in a country paranoid everyone else is trying to manipulate them into losing their independence. Since Blights are Thedas' Godzilla Threshhold and everyone could die anyway, Duncan was probably desperate enough to consider Cousland's potential death versus having a highly influential noble in their ranks who had clout Alistair didn't (yet) worth it. I accept that it's a possibility, I just feel it unlikely. The closest to getting a noble in his pocket he could have gotten would be Bryce Cousland's favorite kid in the Wardens-- and that flew out the window as soon as he died pre Joining anyhow.
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Post by phoray on Feb 14, 2018 4:03:18 GMT
I'm biased because I love Josie with qunari dudes I have a dwarf all set up for her and adore the idea of her bending over to make out with her. As an aside, especially since she's noble, I feel like putting her with the worst possible race/class combination proves her love even more. Mage Qunari? She has to super love them to ignore the whispers. I put Lel with a dwarf too, so I like your idea of them gossiping about their smooshy dwarf loves
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Post by davkar on Feb 14, 2018 7:14:33 GMT
Catilina I hugz you but the Anders debate was half of last page and over half of this one so far. Not really, rather Bethany debate on my part. Hawke can protect the mages (Bethany) even if kills Anders. It's only against the logic: oh, I so much love Bethany, I would close her in a box to keep her safe. She doesn't like that? No matter, I still LOVE her, and this is her sake, I know better...To quote the superstar JC: "your words, not mine". I suggest reading my comments again. But since you probably won't, let me summarize it for you. Supporting the templars isn't the same as supporting Meredith. Siding with them is about restoring order, not killing every mage in Kirkwall. That includes Beth whom Hawke wouldn't kill no matter what because they love her. She will be free on both paths (see Varric's lines in DAI about the companions) so there's nothing about forcing her back to the circle. For the anders debate, like I said you don't have the fkin moral high ground when you murder innocents. The circles had their issues and kirkwall was the worst of the worst (a biased portrayal but that's more of a game design issue) but it still doesn't excuse that abomination. Had he blown up the gallows instead of the chantry he might have had a point.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 14, 2018 8:49:13 GMT
Not really, rather Bethany debate on my part. Hawke can protect the mages (Bethany) even if kills Anders. It's only against the logic: oh, I so much love Bethany, I would close her in a box to keep her safe. She doesn't like that? No matter, I still LOVE her, and this is her sake, I know better... To quote the superstar JC: "your words, not mine". I suggest reading my comments again. But since you probably won't, let me summarize it for you. Supporting the templars isn't the same as supporting Meredith. Siding with them is about restoring order, not killing every mage in Kirkwall. That includes Beth whom Hawke wouldn't kill no matter what because they love her. She will be free on both paths (see Varric's lines in DAI about the companions) so there's nothing about forcing her back to the circle. For the anders debate, like I said you don't have the fkin moral high ground when you murder innocents. The circles had their issues and kirkwall was the worst of the worst (a biased portrayal but that's more of a game design issue) but it still doesn't excuse that abomination. Had he blown up the gallows instead of the chantry he might have had a point Supporting Templars means: supporting Meredith. Meredith's their leader, and Kirkwall's ruler in this time. At the moment, when Hawke chooses a side, doesn't know, she will die even if s/he supports her. Seems Meredith will kill the mages, and Bethany's a mage. Hawke can't trust her goodwill because Meredith has no goodwill. Hawke restores the order, even if supports the mages: the free mages will leave Kirkwall, this clear, there's no reason to stay. But Meredith doesn't suitable to restore any order because she's mad. And again: Hawke doesn't know, that she will die. Hawke LOVES Bethany, if betray her? Of course. Hawke can give Fenris back Danarius, because s/he LOVE him: Danarius can help him to maintain his lyrium marks, so: Hawke give him back for FENRIS sake, because Fenris' marks are unstable... This argument is may an exaggeration, but similar hypocrisy than yours. You can argue with the Templars are useful to protect the city (not Meredith!), and DESPITE Bethany's will and interest, Hawke must support them, and SACRIFICE his/her sister for this idea. It can be acceptable somehow, and more believable. But siding Templars at the end, is NOT about PROTECT Bethany. Is about SACRIFICE Bethany... (True, people can sacrifice someone who they love, undoubtedly.) Hawke can kill Anders. What he did, doesn't justify to betray Bethany. Some links, where you can argue against Anders, and can see many arguments pro and contra Anders, and about why he choose the Chantry instead the Gallows: 1. 2. 3. 4.
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Post by davkar on Feb 14, 2018 16:12:04 GMT
To quote the superstar JC: "your words, not mine". I suggest reading my comments again. But since you probably won't, let me summarize it for you. Supporting the templars isn't the same as supporting Meredith. Siding with them is about restoring order, not killing every mage in Kirkwall. That includes Beth whom Hawke wouldn't kill no matter what because they love her. She will be free on both paths (see Varric's lines in DAI about the companions) so there's nothing about forcing her back to the circle. For the anders debate, like I said you don't have the fkin moral high ground when you murder innocents. The circles had their issues and kirkwall was the worst of the worst (a biased portrayal but that's more of a game design issue) but it still doesn't excuse that abomination. Had he blown up the gallows instead of the chantry he might have had a point Supporting Templars means: supporting Meredith. Meredith's their leader, and Kirkwall's ruler in this time. At the moment, when Hawke chooses a side, doesn't know, she will die even if s/he supports her. Seems Meredith will kill the mages, and Bethany's a mage. Hawke can't trust her goodwill because Meredith has no goodwill. Hawke restores the order, even if supports the mages: the free mages will leave Kirkwall, this clear, there's no reason to stay. But Meredith doesn't suitable to restore any order because she's mad. And again: Hawke doesn't know, that she will die. Hawke LOVES Bethany, if betray her? Of course. Hawke can give Fenris back Danarius, because s/he LOVE him: Danarius can help him to maintain his lyrium marks, so: Hawke give him back for FENRIS sake, because Fenris' marks are unstable... This argument is may an exaggeration, but similar hypocrisy than yours. You can argue with the Templars are useful to protect the city (not Meredith!), and DESPITE Bethany's will and interest, Hawke must support them, and SACRIFICE his/her sister for this idea. It can be acceptable somehow, and more believable. But siding Templars at the end, is NOT about PROTECT Bethany. Is about SACRIFICE Bethany... (True, people can sacrifice someone who they love, undoubtedly.) Hawke can kill Anders. What he did, doesn't justify to betray Bethany. Some links, where you can argue against Anders, and can see many arguments pro and contra Anders, and about why he choose the Chantry instead the Gallows: 1. 2. 3. 4.This is still just your headcanon. I'm talking about facts because we know what happens immediately (DA2 endgame) and years later (DAI). You can ignore that if you want to use your own imaginary Hawke-voice but it's an important knowledge when building a canon ws. Siding with the templars is not to spite Beth. These are just the circumstances that they end up on the opposing sides. There's even a "will you fight me?" dialogue in the gallows. Maybe if the game had a few more months of development time there would have been an option to ask the sibling to join Hawke right away. If or when it comes to that (post orsino fight) Hawke won't hurt Beth and stops M from killing her because they love her. The option is there but then you have to play a really fd up Hawke for that. I don't see why would you bring Fenris into this. #1 He's protected by a bug armor which puts a quest in a loop so you can't sell him. #2 It would make sense in act1 (as a nameless nobody why would you anger a magister?) but in act3, after knowing each other for years it's just needlessly cruel, same as letting Beth die. I won't read through countless threads. I asked you about your stance on a senseless terrorist act. You couldn't defend it, didn't even try so there's that.
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Post by phoray on Feb 14, 2018 16:24:01 GMT
I won't read through countless threads I thought he was just trying to move your Off Topic lengthy debate to a more appropriate place to continue. Catilina can do this for pages and pages and pages
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Post by copper on Feb 14, 2018 16:34:13 GMT
Can we maybe not turn this thread into another mage/templar debate?
On topic, if you were to have each protagonist be a different race, do you think Origins or Inquisition makes more sense for the dwarf and elf slots? I'd be more inclined to have my warden be a dwarf and my inquisitor be an elf than the other way around. Dwarf wardens grew up in Orzammar instead of as surfacers. And Inquisition has all those elfy revelations. I'm hoping DA4 will have lots of Qunari stuff for a Qunari hero.
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Post by phoray on Feb 14, 2018 17:02:48 GMT
do you think Origins or Inquisition makes more sense for the dwarf and elf slots? your argument for elf quiz is sound, considering all the elfiness that is in that game. So if I went by sense, I'd put Noble Dwarf into DAO and Dalish elf into DAI. But in DA4, we are likely to get a city elf, a dwarf (probably carta again) and a human. But I way lurve city elf far more than I liked noble dwarf (thought it was okay). So my lurve feelings puts a city elf (mage or non mage) in DAO so another elf can be a hero in history no human can deny, and yet another elf in DAI for all the elfiness (but this one is Dalish, obviously). History has proven to have forgotten an elven Inquisitor as it stands already but Gaharel has been remembered by the Wardens and every one else for 4 centuries just fine. And dwarves don't have much racism against them.
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Post by davkar on Feb 14, 2018 17:12:51 GMT
I won't read through countless threads I thought he was just trying to move your Off Topic lengthy debate to a more appropriate place to continue. Catilina can do this for pages and pages and pages I don't see how this is off topic. The thread is about canons. Alternate paths, next game knowledge helps shape that. DAI proved that many of Hawke's choices doesn't really matter since the Fiona vote is the main cause of the mage rebellion (btw I'm not a fan of these off-game decisions). From a narrative standpoint siding with the templars in DA2 makes more sense, you know my reasons. Anders will stay relevant (/deed) until the Solas thing is resolved. If bw makes him a scripted evil too then he'll be just Anders2. His retcons were stupid, I hope they won't do the same to Fenny. 90% that we'll get a new portagonist, convincing Solas with a new guy is hard/strange as it is even without ignoring his connection to the inqi.
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Post by phoray on Feb 14, 2018 17:17:21 GMT
The thread is about canons. Alternate paths, next game knowledge helps shape that It may seem on topic to you, but your debate reads nothing like any of the other posts nor does it answer the questions in the OP. It's a Hawke Mage/Templar debate, true and true. If you feel it's relevant and want to stay, at least put the super long back and forth behind a spoiler for politeness. I wouldn't make a canon decision based on metaknowledge. That's like saying you wouldn't bother with a Dalish Warden because the Fereldan Monoarchy reneges on the Dalish Boon of land.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 14, 2018 17:22:07 GMT
Supporting Templars means: supporting Meredith. Meredith's their leader, and Kirkwall's ruler in this time. At the moment, when Hawke chooses a side, doesn't know, she will die even if s/he supports her. Seems Meredith will kill the mages, and Bethany's a mage. Hawke can't trust her goodwill because Meredith has no goodwill. Hawke restores the order, even if supports the mages: the free mages will leave Kirkwall, this clear, there's no reason to stay. But Meredith doesn't suitable to restore any order because she's mad. And again: Hawke doesn't know, that she will die. Hawke LOVES Bethany, if betray her? Of course. Hawke can give Fenris back Danarius, because s/he LOVE him: Danarius can help him to maintain his lyrium marks, so: Hawke give him back for FENRIS sake, because Fenris' marks are unstable... This argument is may an exaggeration, but similar hypocrisy than yours. You can argue with the Templars are useful to protect the city (not Meredith!), and DESPITE Bethany's will and interest, Hawke must support them, and SACRIFICE his/her sister for this idea. It can be acceptable somehow, and more believable. But siding Templars at the end, is NOT about PROTECT Bethany. Is about SACRIFICE Bethany... (True, people can sacrifice someone who they love, undoubtedly.) Hawke can kill Anders. What he did, doesn't justify to betray Bethany. Some links, where you can argue against Anders, and can see many arguments pro and contra Anders, and about why he choose the Chantry instead the Gallows: 1. 2. 3. 4.This is still just your headcanon. I'm talking about facts because we know what happens immediately (DA2 endgame) and years later (DAI). You can ignore that if you want to use your own imaginary Hawke-voice but it's an important knowledge when building a canon ws. Siding with the templars is not to spite Beth. These are just the circumstances that they end up on the opposing sides. There's even a "will you fight me?" dialogue in the gallows. Maybe if the game had a few more months of development time there would have been an option to ask the sibling to join Hawke right away. If or when it comes to that (post orsino fight) Hawke won't hurt Beth and stops M from killing her because they love her. The option is there but then you have to play a really fd up Hawke for that. I don't see why would you bring Fenris into this. #1 He's protected by a bug armor which puts a quest in a loop so you can't sell him. #2 It would make sense in act1 (as a nameless nobody why would you anger a magister?) but in act3, after knowing each other for years it's just needlessly cruel, same as letting Beth die. I won't read through countless threads. I asked you about your stance on a senseless terrorist act. You couldn't defend it, didn't even try so there's that. It's not only my "headcanon". Supporting Templars isn't spite Bethany? Do you think, she supports the Annulment? Or loves to be prisoner? Man... she's not fool and/or evil (she don't want to see the others to die). Why people think, that Bethany prefers the captivity instead the freedom, the family and (rich) life... Bethany would really that idiot? And Hawke... again... doesn't know, Meredith will not kill his/her sister. S/He sacrifices Bethany. But okay, even if Meredith doesn't kill Bethany, Hawke sacrifices her. The sacrifice not necessaily means death. Bethany wants to be free, wants to live as everyone else. If Hawke doesn't supports her, kills her dream. Kills her soul. S/He supports a prison, what created for his/her sister... "You might as well endorse real life terrorism...", you wrote before, to me. I don't think, I must answer your ask after this. But okay: 1. We can't compare the Chantry exlosion with the modern real life terrorism. Anders didn't want to create fear, he wanted to start a rebellion. His aim was not a random place and random people. 2. Anders attacked the Chantry, because the Chantry, was that created the Circle, and Elthina was the real enemy with her "neutrality". The Gallows only a prison, Meredith only a mad executioner. Not Meredith and the Templars were his real enemyes, the system was. If he would blow up the Gallows, doesn't caused rebellion, only unnecessary bloodseed, without any sense. This would be senseless, nobody cares about a prison: we saw: Decimus ignited the Starkhaven Circle, and nothing happened. But with the Cantry explosion, he started the rebellion, what was necessary. But the War started by the Templars and Seekers, when they betrayed Justinia. Anders' act was important, he launched the avalanche. This was not senseless, he succeeded, even if Hawke killed him, or many people just forget him. His life no matter, his cause matter, and this succeed. The change started. (The Inquisition later verified this: everything changed, whatever the end result.)
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Post by davkar on Feb 14, 2018 17:34:25 GMT
The thread is about canons. Alternate paths, next game knowledge helps shape that It may seem on topic to you, but your debate reads nothing like any of the other posts nor does it answer the questions in the OP. It's a Hawke Mage/Templar debate, true and true. If you feel it's relevant and want to stay, at least put the super long back and forth behind a spoiler for politeness. I wouldn't make a canon decision based on metaknowledge. That's like saying you wouldn't bother with a Dalish Warden because the Fereldan Monoarchy reneges on the Dalish Boon of land. That's a perfect example! Why would I choose that or a dalish US? We know that the clan is hanging around Kirkwall so the land doesn't make sense. I had full dalish pt. A femdalish with warden Alistair, Hawke romanced Merrill, inqi got baldy. I chose Mahariel's happiness by leaving Hawke in the fade. They can fight about it if they ever meet again. A dalish gathering in DA4 would be a plot relevant quest and all these past characters could be in one place. Also whenever I leave a Hawke behind at adamant I make sure he romanced Merrill with an intact eluvian because their survival/return seems more likely that way. I also have a planned mdalish with Morri as elf-baby Kieran might be important later because of grand mommy FleMythal.
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Post by phoray on Feb 14, 2018 17:40:02 GMT
We know that the clan is hanging around Kirkwall There is still whatever clan Zatharian is heading and the implication of many other Dalish in Fereldan in general, so the boon wasn't specifically for the Sabrae clan. Additionally, if it had been a place that stuck around, Dalish from other countries that felt safe enough to be still would have immigrated as well. I think that was probably the problem-- Southern Fereldan becomes the new Dales? That's a big problem for later games, it had to be done away with. But you could play your Dalish as being savvy enough to understand that, and instead opt for Loghain's lands which is never retconned. Then, as Teryn/a, you can invite your people onto your lands, separate of Fereldan monoarchy involvement. Probably won't make the rest of your tenants happy, but there is no info one way or the other on the matter, so head canon freely that it all works out. I really like Morrigan with a kid (specifically, a normal one instead of a magical one from the dArk Ritual), but actually like her better as a friend. Good thing I don't have to commmit to just one canon world state.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 14, 2018 17:45:22 GMT
On topic, if you were to have each protagonist be a different race, do you think Origins or Inquisition makes more sense for the dwarf and elf slots? I'd be more inclined to have my warden be a dwarf and my inquisitor be an elf than the other way around. Dwarf wardens grew up in Orzammar instead of as surfacers. And Inquisition has all those elfy revelations. I'm hoping DA4 will have lots of Qunari stuff for a Qunari hero. I'm inclined to say dwarf for Origins, because I doubt we'll get another protagonist who grew up in Orzammar - either extreme, Dust Town or the Diamond Quarter. And the dwarven origin stories are so well-written and your character becomes a Paragon, a living ancestor! And they're possibly the sibling or sibling-in-law of the King of Orzammar! That's incredible. On the other hand, Origins has the city elf option which is not only an excellent story but is vastly different from the Dalish perspective in DAI. On the other hand I prefer an 'outsider' perspective in DAI so I'm inclined to go with dwarf again (or qunari huhu). But I can see the draw of having a Dalish Inquisitor befriend/antagonize/romance the Dread Wolf and possibly drink from the Well of Sorrows.
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davkar
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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davkar
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davkar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by davkar on Feb 14, 2018 18:19:13 GMT
This is still just your headcanon. I'm talking about facts because we know what happens immediately (DA2 endgame) and years later (DAI). You can ignore that if you want to use your own imaginary Hawke-voice but it's an important knowledge when building a canon ws. Siding with the templars is not to spite Beth. These are just the circumstances that they end up on the opposing sides. There's even a "will you fight me?" dialogue in the gallows. Maybe if the game had a few more months of development time there would have been an option to ask the sibling to join Hawke right away. If or when it comes to that (post orsino fight) Hawke won't hurt Beth and stops M from killing her because they love her. The option is there but then you have to play a really fd up Hawke for that. I don't see why would you bring Fenris into this. #1 He's protected by a bug armor which puts a quest in a loop so you can't sell him. #2 It would make sense in act1 (as a nameless nobody why would you anger a magister?) but in act3, after knowing each other for years it's just needlessly cruel, same as letting Beth die. I won't read through countless threads. I asked you about your stance on a senseless terrorist act. You couldn't defend it, didn't even try so there's that. It's not only my "headcanon". Supporting Templars isn't spite Bethany? Do you think, she supports the Annulment? Or loves to be prisoner? Man... she's not fool and/or evil (she don't want to see the others to die). Why people think, that Bethany prefers the captivity instead the freedom, the family and (rich) life... Bethany would really that idiot? And Hawke... again... doesn't know, Meredith will not kill his/her sister. S/He sacrifices Bethany. But okay, even if Meredith doesn't kill Bethany, Hawke sacrifices her. The sacrifice not necessaily means death. Bethany wants to be free, wants to live as everyone else. If Hawke doesn't supports her, kills her dream. Kills her soul. S/He supports a prison, what created for his/her sister... "You might as well endorse real life terrorism...", you wrote before, to me. I don't think, I must answer your ask after this. But okay: 1. We can't compare the Chantry exlosion with the modern real life terrorism. Anders didn't want to create fear, he wanted to start a rebellion. His aim was not a random place and random people. 2. Anders attacked the Chantry, because the Chantry, was that created the Circle, and Elthina was the real enemy with her "neutrality". The Gallows only a prison, Meredith only a mad executioner. Not Meredith and the Templars were his real enemyes, the system was. If he would blow up the Gallows, doesn't caused rebellion, only unnecessary bloodseed, without any sense. This would be senseless, nobody cares about a prison: we saw: Decimus ignited the Starkhaven Circle, and nothing happened. But with the Cantry explosion, he started the rebellion, what was necessary. But the War started by the Templars and Seekers, when they betrayed Justinia. Anders' act was important, he launched the avalanche. This was not senseless, he succeeded, even if Hawke killed him, or many people just forget him. His life no matter, his cause matter, and this succeed. The change started. (The Inquisition later verified this: everything changed, whatever the end result.)
You really don't get it, do you? Whatever, I tried explaining it multiple times, at this point I just don't care. 1. The intent doesn't matter when the deed itself is terrorism. And murdering innocents in number is terrorism.
2. Elthina WAS neutral and innocent. She proved that at the start of act3. She could have removed M from her position and made changes for the mages by appointing someone else as kcmndr. Cullen for example.
I was talking about blowing up the gates of the gallows and then rallying the mages himself. For all his talk about the cause he was just a coward. He could have killed Meredith too. Through Hawke he had access. Just how many time have we visited her office during act3? She was alone there. By choosing the big terrorist spectacle he proved that normal people were right to fear magic.
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davkar
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 580 Likes: 981
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davkar
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Post by davkar on Feb 14, 2018 18:35:42 GMT
We know that the clan is hanging around Kirkwall There is still whatever clan Zatharian is heading and the implication of many other Dalish in Fereldan in general, so the boon wasn't specifically for the Sabrae clan. Additionally, if it had been a place that stuck around, Dalish from other countries that felt safe enough to be still would have immigrated as well. I think that was probably the problem-- Southern Fereldan becomes the new Dales? That's a big problem for later games, it had to be done away with. But you could play your Dalish as being savvy enough to understand that, and instead opt for Loghain's lands which is never retconned. Then, as Teryn/a, you can invite your people onto your lands, separate of Fereldan monoarchy involvement. Probably won't make the rest of your tenants happy, but there is no info one way or the other on the matter, so head canon freely that it all works out. I really like Morrigan with a kid (specifically, a normal one instead of a magical one from the dArk Ritual), but actually like her better as a friend. Good thing I don't have to commmit to just one canon world state. The Keep made a lot of headcanons pointless. For example my first femcityelf was so full of hate and rage that when she learned that Alistair is the prince she came up with the perfect revenge plan to punish the humans. Seduce him, make him king, then let him die killing the archdemon and the country will fall into chaos without its king. Muhahaha. During the post blight confusion she can rescue the denerim elves. Yeah, fok that. Anora stays in reserve and ferelden needs to have a living ruler so dead-hero Alistair is not an option. Boo. I had to rewrite her to a regret elf. I really liked the idea of Mori having a human baby (didn't know about that in DAO before the keep) but sadly DAI treats him as if he doesn't exist. There are a few alternate lines after WE&H but Leli talks about no-baby mean Morrigan and in the temple of mythal there's nothing about him when the price comes up. In my main1 the warden is a Morimancer with ritual but if DA4 ignores M and Kieran I might change it to a human baby with US.
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Catilina
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catilina
Top
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Post by Catilina on Feb 14, 2018 18:53:38 GMT
It's not only my "headcanon". Supporting Templars isn't spite Bethany? Do you think, she supports the Annulment? Or loves to be prisoner? Man... she's not fool and/or evil (she don't want to see the others to die). Why people think, that Bethany prefers the captivity instead the freedom, the family and (rich) life... Bethany would really that idiot?
And Hawke... again... doesn't know, Meredith will not kill his/her sister. S/He sacrifices Bethany. But okay, even if Meredith doesn't kill Bethany, Hawke sacrifices her. The sacrifice not necessaily means death. Bethany wants to be free, wants to live as everyone else. If Hawke doesn't supports her, kills her dream. Kills her soul. S/He supports a prison, what created for his/her sister... "You might as well endorse real life terrorism...", you wrote before, to me. I don't think, I must answer your ask after this. But okay: 1. We can't compare the Chantry exlosion with the modern real life terrorism. Anders didn't want to create fear, he wanted to start a rebellion. His aim was not a random place and random people. 2. Anders attacked the Chantry, because the Chantry, was that created the Circle, and Elthina was the real enemy with her "neutrality". The Gallows only a prison, Meredith only a mad executioner. Not Meredith and the Templars were his real enemyes, the system was. If he would blow up the Gallows, doesn't caused rebellion, only unnecessary bloodseed, without any sense. This would be senseless, nobody cares about a prison: we saw: Decimus ignited the Starkhaven Circle, and nothing happened. But with the Cantry explosion, he started the rebellion, what was necessary. But the War started by the Templars and Seekers, when they betrayed Justinia. Anders' act was important, he launched the avalanche. This was not senseless, he succeeded, even if Hawke killed him, or many people just forget him. His life no matter, his cause matter, and this succeed. The change started. (The Inquisition later verified this: everything changed, whatever the end result.) You really don't get it, do you? Whatever, I tried explaining it multiple times, at this point I just don't care. 1. The intent doesn't matter when the deed itself is terrorism. And murdering innocents in number is terrorism.
2. Elthina WAS neutral and innocent. She proved that at the start of act3. She could have removed M from her position and made changes for the mages by appointing someone else as kcmndr. Cullen for example.
I was talking about blowing up the gates of the gallows and then rallying the mages himself. For all his talk about the cause he was just a coward. He could have killed Meredith too. Through Hawke he had access. Just how many time have we visited her office during act3? She was alone there. By choosing the big terrorist spectacle he proved that normal people were right to fear magic
I get it. Hawke sacrificed Bethany for some order. It's okay. But not for Bethany. You wrote at first: this decision worth it, FOR BETHANY. 1. Or revolution.
2. Elthina was never neutral. She proved at the act3. With her act, she supported Meredith. Let's see with a really simple example (this is Elthina's innocent neutrality): You know, what she would do? To send back to the Circle everyone, who belongs to the Circle, and the others to home.
I said: Anders's target was NOT Meredith. Meredith doesn't worth to kill from Anders' viewpoint. It would be only a simple anger/revenge for Karl, and for the mages, but Anders didn't want a simple revenge, he wanted a rebellion, a change). What would happen if he just kill Meredith? Probably: annulment, ordered by the Divine. The Knight Commander killed after than she sent a request for the Annulment. AND nothing else. No rebellion, just forgetting. Nothing happened, just dies a Knight Commander. Not a big loss, but perhaps worth an Annulment, because of the Resolutioners and the blood mages etc, why Leliana arrived in Kirkwall. Killing Meredith would only a foolish NOTHING. And if Anders would kill Meredith, Cullen would be a cruel bastard. He needed to see, how his idol lost herself and become an abomination. If anyone kills her, just would justify her methods in Cullen's eyes. Why was Anders coward? He accepted the death sentence or fought. He was no coward, but knew, to kill Meredith doesn't solve anything anymore and doesn't cause significant change what Anders wanted.
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Dreadnaw Rising
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phoray
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Post by phoray on Feb 14, 2018 20:28:52 GMT
The Keep made a lot of headcanons pointless. The Keep doesn't ruin that, the game itself clearly explains. Alistair delays Anora's execution in Dialogue at the Landsmeet stating he may die on the Battlefield. Regardless of his feelings about Anora, someone has gotta sit on the throne, so he lists her as backup. I don't think I've ever written a character before I played the first time. This reason is a good reason why, as you have no idea what the game allows for prior to playing.
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ewigDunkelheit
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Exalt the Dwarf Age!
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Feb 15, 2018 1:26:53 GMT
On topic, if you were to have each protagonist be a different race, do you think Origins or Inquisition makes more sense for the dwarf and elf slots? I am incredibly biased towards dwarves, so I vote for dwarf Warden, as long as you don't mind some of the cultural dissonance in Inquisition for the not-quite-fully-integrated-added-races which shows up in Dalish dialogue now and then. I felt like I got to enjoy a lot of unique content when my exiled dwarf princess returned to Orzammar. As for the Inquisition, the party roster could use someone that is actually culturally elven; plus, don't forget all of the elven regions, where you discover more elven history and lore, and then all the great BIG revelations by the end. What gender do you want your Warden to be? Since I like dwarves for both games, if you are leaning towards male, I would actually vote for playing a male Dalish Warden that romances Morrigan (you don't have to believe in or agree to the "dark ritual," Morrigan will still carry a child regardless), and goes through the Eluvian in Witch Hunt. You get a lot of references and links strewn throughout the trilogy on this path.
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ewigDunkelheit
N3
Exalt the Dwarf Age!
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Feb 15, 2018 1:50:45 GMT
My Adaar is a dedicated Andrastian whose greatest desire is acceptance and belonging. I feel like Josephine is a good match for this character. I think a world state where you have Warden x Leliana paired up and Inquisitor x Josephine paired up is really sweet because they're such good friends and deserve to be swept off their feet. I think if your Inquisitor is after "acceptance and belonging", either character works. I know what you mean about both characters working for what I mentioned. I didn't realize until after I posted that I needed to be more precise. Bull definitely accepts you for who you are regardless of any of the details whatsoever, and provides such unconditional love and support. I know it's a minor detail, but it always bugs me that all of his flings or relationships seem to be with women. But I think I also like playing out the beauty and the beast scenario with him. One of my favorite combinations is to pair Bull with a female dwarven tank who protects him on the battlefield. The precision I was lacking was that my Adaar was brought up to be culturally human and Andrastian by his parents so he could have a better chance at gaining acceptance into the community which they escaped. His name is actually Plum Drakon Adaar (he has purple eyes). I'm biased because I love Josie with qunari dudes As an aside, especially since she's noble, I feel like putting her with the worst possible race/class combination proves her love even more. Mage Qunari? She has to super love them to ignore the whispers. Thank you both for your response and input. I will commit to Josephine for my canon. Adaar will even find further acceptance and belonging through his loving relationship with an Andrastian human. Oh, and my Aeducan Warden did romance Leliana. I even ran a Cadash/Josie story once, and I do like the symmetry of the relationships. Not that it is specifically related, but I think it's a great moment when Leliana threatens the Inquisitor about not hurting Josephine.
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copper
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Post by copper on Feb 15, 2018 1:57:23 GMT
On topic, if you were to have each protagonist be a different race, do you think Origins or Inquisition makes more sense for the dwarf and elf slots? I am incredibly biased towards dwarves, so I vote for dwarf Warden, as long as you don't mind some of the cultural dissonance in Inquisition for the not-quite-fully-integrated-added-races which shows up in Dalish dialogue now and then. I felt like I got to enjoy a lot of unique content when my exiled dwarf princess returned to Orzammar. As for the Inquisition, the party roster could use someone that is actually culturally elven; plus, don't forget all of the elven regions, where you discover more elven history and lore, and then all the great BIG revelations by the end. What gender do you want your Warden to be? Since I like dwarves for both games, if you are leaning towards male, I would actually vote for playing a male Dalish Warden that romances Morrigan (you don't have to believe in or agree to the "dark ritual," Morrigan will still carry a child regardless), and goes through the Eluvian in Witch Hunt. You get a lot of references and links strewn throughout the trilogy on this path. Yeah dwarves are the best My canon for origins is currently a male dwarf noble who romances Morrigan and does the ultimate sacrifice, so not too far off from your suggestion. I see what you mean though. In DA2 Merrill and the rest of Mahariel's clan play a significant role in the plot. And then in Inquisition Morrigan is back with his son. It's a nice way to reference the warden without them actually making an appearance. Though I love the dwarf origins too much to drift away from using one of them for my personal canon. On the other hand, Inquisitor Cadash shares their lineage with Shale... Honestly knowing me, I'll talk about making my characters so diverse from each other and then go ahead and make all my protagonists dwarves, minus Hawke. A Qunari will be really tempting though if they're ever more culturally a Qunari and grew up in Par Vollen or Seheron.
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