Templar Knight
N2
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 63 Likes: 57
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Post by Templar Knight on Feb 13, 2018 5:28:29 GMT
Right, so this is probably something really obvious, but it only just really sunk in for me that each member of the Inquisition's original leadership is from a different nation of southern Thedas - thus representing most of the southern kingdoms.
Josephine - Antiva
Cullen - Ferelden
Cassandra - Nevarra
Leliana - considers herself Fereldan, but she did grow up in Orlais and has the accent (and love of shoes), so
Heck, if we throw in the human Inquisitor (is it true the game was originally designed with only the human protagonist?), we've got the Free Marches accounted for as well.
I feel like this diversity of nationalities was probably intentional... and probably something everyone else noticed right off the bat. >_>
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 13, 2018 5:56:01 GMT
Same deal with the Inner Circle, really. You've got a representative from Tevinter, the Qun, the loyal mages... the world's at war and everybody has their say.
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Post by phoray on Feb 13, 2018 5:57:42 GMT
I feel like this diversity of nationalities was probably intentional... and probably something everyone else noticed right off the bat. >_> Nope, hadn't noticed. Other than Cullen, I don't think any of them speak of home with any particular fondness, so they're not exactly great reps of their respective countries
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Post by Lazarillo on Feb 13, 2018 6:14:37 GMT
Heck, if we throw in the human Inquisitor (is it true the game was originally designed with only the human protagonist?), we've got the Free Marches accounted for as well. IIRC, both Adaar and Lavellan are remarked to have mostly lived and worked in the Free Marches as well. Not sure if anything similar is said about Cadash. But yeah, it's an interesting thing to point out, and one I hadn't considered either, but it's true.
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Post by phoray on Feb 13, 2018 6:48:22 GMT
I'm sorry, my post was a downer.
I wish Cass and the rest waxed on about their countries as Zevran and Dorian do. (you hear the love) It feels kinda like it's irrelevant where they're from because Cass is indifferent to her heritage and finds Nevarra creepy. So our first extended with a Nevarran is that she's made herself outcast from disinterest. We already had antivan rep from Zev so I guess Jose gets a pass on being more obsessed with immediate family and fortune.
And Orlais is all Clothes and Death with other things alluded to but never depicted in spite of all the depiction.
I love the game, I just feel like the Rep is disappointing
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 13, 2018 6:51:33 GMT
IIRC, both Adaar and Lavellan are remarked to have mostly lived and worked in the Free Marches as well. Not sure if anything similar is said about Cadash. Yup, safe to say. "House Cadash eventually became a prominent crime family of the Carta operating across various city-states in the Free Marches." "[Cadash] moved from city to city in the Free Marches, working wherever the syndicate saw profit to be made."
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Post by thats1evildude on Feb 13, 2018 7:04:28 GMT
If we expand the national representation checklist to party members, we also have Nevarra, Tevinter and Seheron (the Qun). And if you include multiplayer characters/Agents, then you can also put Orzammar, the Dalish and the Avvar on the list.
The only countries/tribes not really represented in the Inquisition are Rivain, the Anerfels and the Chasind.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 13, 2018 7:07:10 GMT
If we expand the national representation checklist to party members, we also have Nevarra, Tevinter and Seheron (the Qun). And if you include multiplayer characters/Agents, then you can also put Orzammar and the Avvar on the list. Yeah, I think the Inquisition is supposed to be one big melting pot. Nobody has any experience with the sky trying to tear itself apart, so everyone's getting involved. It's not a Ferelden problem or a Kirkwall problem.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 13, 2018 9:20:53 GMT
Yet when it comes to deciding its fate, only Ferelden and Orlais get any real input, plus a bit of token representation of Tevinter. Really if we were meant to be an international organisation defending the interests of the citizens of Thedas as a whole then why do the other nations not have a say in whether we continue or not? (I would point out that none of the inner circle are actually official representatives of their country in the main game and the Freemarches is not a country but just a collective term for the individual City States).
That is why the Exalted Council was a bit of a disappointment to me in the way it was handled. I think the outcome should have been dependent on our performance over the course of Inquisition both out in the field and on the war table missions. It would probably have been a nightmare to program but at the very least some sort of link could have been made to certain key decisions seeing as they are later recorded in the Keep. The fact that no distinction was drawn between the behaviour of, say, a diplomatic, caring sort of Inquisitor and an aggressive bastard was for me rather disappointing. Teagan criticised you regardless of whether you had saved Crestwood (thus effectively earning the support of the Freeholders in grand old Ferelden tradition) or totally ignored their fate and left them to be wiped out by the undead. Did you take the trouble to rescue your soldiers from the Fallowmire? Did you save the citizens in the Emprise du Lion? Given the number of people who could now be alive due to our actions when they could have been dead but it was not obligatory to save them to complete the main plot it would have been nice to have our efforts on their behalf acknowledged.
It still makes no sense to me that in the epilogue at the end of the main game we are said to be an all powerful Thedas wide influence with allies across the world and yet two years later just two nations can so easily destroy everything we have built. For example, since the Viscount of Kirkwall seems to approve of us, why not simply move our base of operations to there and give the two fingered salute to the other two? (To be honest, in my fan fiction this is exactly what my Inquisitor does after "officially" disbanding the organisation.)
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 13, 2018 9:46:10 GMT
Really if we were meant to be an international organization defending the interests of the citizens of Thedas as a whole then why do the other nations not have a say in whether we continue or not? Because the Inquisition primarily operates in Ferelden and Orlais and its headquarters is on a mountain range that borders both nations? While there are a spare few operations in other nations, there is no question that the vast majority of Inquisition activity and assets are in Ferelden and Orlais. They didn't take keeps in Nevarra, Antiva, Rivain, Tevinter, or the Anderfels. That really seems to be the thing that bothers Ferelden and Orlais the most. The Inquisition took those keeps from whatever forces were holding them, set up shop (quite literally with rare goods merchants!), and remained there for 3-4 years (depending on your headcanon time). They didn't leave after Corypheus was defeated, but continued to hang around, doing their thing, including maintaining control of those keeps within those nations' borders. Yes, it would have been a nightmare, and would be as meaningful as the various boons in DAO. With the way DA2 ended, it's clear they, while still offering choice during the game itself, try to streamline choices that have a greater affect on the world at large. Look at Dorian. It seems clear he will play a role in the next game, and that that outcome was determined from the beginning. No matter what you do -- recruit him or not, friend or not, romance or not, ask him to stay or not, kick him out or not, complete his quest or not -- he still ends up back in Tevinter as a magister after his father is assassinated. Regardless of whether you officially disband the Inquisition or allow it to become a puppet organization under the Chantry, there is still a Shadow Inquisition that is completely divorced from that choice. They learned their lesson well from DAO and its epilogues. I think it is highly unlikely they will allow the player to make permanent, world-altering choices with numerous variables. Even the Old God Baby doesn't really amount to anything, because it can't, because that soul will have been eliminated for a chunk of players and is not available as a story device for them. I definitely agree with this, though. Even if the difference didn't amount to anything other than a few different dialogue lines, I would have liked my Inquisition's, er, personality as it were, to be acknowledged.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 13, 2018 9:47:24 GMT
and probably something everyone else noticed right off the bat. >_> Hah! Not really in my case! It's one of those things where I read your post and was like, "Oh yeah!"
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Post by Catilina on Feb 13, 2018 11:32:50 GMT
Yet when it comes to deciding its fate, only Ferelden and Orlais get any real input, plus a bit of token representation of Tevinter. Really if we were meant to be an international organisation defending the interests of the citizens of Thedas as a whole then why do the other nations not have a say in whether we continue or not? (I would point out that none of the inner circle are actually official representatives of their country in the main game and the Freemarches is not a country but just a collective term for the individual City States). That is why the Exalted Council was a bit of a disappointment to me in the way it was handled. I think the outcome should have been dependent on our performance over the course of Inquisition both out in the field and on the war table missions. It would probably have been a nightmare to program but at the very least some sort of link could have been made to certain key decisions seeing as they are later recorded in the Keep. The fact that no distinction was drawn between the behaviour of, say, a diplomatic, caring sort of Inquisitor and an aggressive bastard was for me rather disappointing. Teagan criticised you regardless of whether you had saved Crestwood (thus effectively earning the support of the Freeholders in grand old Ferelden tradition) or totally ignored their fate and left them to be wiped out by the undead. Did you take the trouble to rescue your soldiers from the Fallowmire? Did you save the citizens in the Emprise du Lion? Given the number of people who could now be alive due to our actions when they could have been dead but it was not obligatory to save them to complete the main plot it would have been nice to have our efforts on their behalf acknowledged. It still makes no sense to me that in the epilogue at the end of the main game we are said to be an all powerful Thedas wide influence with allies across the world and yet two years later just two nations can so easily destroy everything we have built. For example, since the Viscount of Kirkwall seems to approve of us, why not simply move our base of operations to there and give the two fingered salute to the other two? (To be honest, in my fan fiction this is exactly what my Inquisitor does after "officially" disbanding the organisation.) About Teagan: I can understand his hostility: people rarely love to see a foreign army presence in their land after the peace restored, even if this army does not belong to a country, but a part of the organization/alliance. It's just uncomfortable. (My opinion, ofc.)
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 13, 2018 13:29:01 GMT
Yet when it comes to deciding its fate, only Ferelden and Orlais get any real input, plus a bit of token representation of Tevinter. Really if we were meant to be an international organisation defending the interests of the citizens of Thedas as a whole then why do the other nations not have a say in whether we continue or not? (I would point out that none of the inner circle are actually official representatives of their country in the main game and the Freemarches is not a country but just a collective term for the individual City States). That is why the Exalted Council was a bit of a disappointment to me in the way it was handled. I think the outcome should have been dependent on our performance over the course of Inquisition both out in the field and on the war table missions. It would probably have been a nightmare to program but at the very least some sort of link could have been made to certain key decisions seeing as they are later recorded in the Keep. The fact that no distinction was drawn between the behaviour of, say, a diplomatic, caring sort of Inquisitor and an aggressive bastard was for me rather disappointing. Teagan criticised you regardless of whether you had saved Crestwood (thus effectively earning the support of the Freeholders in grand old Ferelden tradition) or totally ignored their fate and left them to be wiped out by the undead. Did you take the trouble to rescue your soldiers from the Fallowmire? Did you save the citizens in the Emprise du Lion? Given the number of people who could now be alive due to our actions when they could have been dead but it was not obligatory to save them to complete the main plot it would have been nice to have our efforts on their behalf acknowledged. It still makes no sense to me that in the epilogue at the end of the main game we are said to be an all powerful Thedas wide influence with allies across the world and yet two years later just two nations can so easily destroy everything we have built. For example, since the Viscount of Kirkwall seems to approve of us, why not simply move our base of operations to there and give the two fingered salute to the other two? (To be honest, in my fan fiction this is exactly what my Inquisitor does after "officially" disbanding the organisation.) About Teagan: I can understand his hostility: people rarely love to see a foreign army presence in their land after the peace restored, even if this army does not belong to a country, but a part of the organization/alliance. It's just uncomfortable. (My opinion, ofc.) Sometimes I feel like the only one who doesn't blame Teagan for being tetchy. We come in, declare ourselves awesome, take some Keeps that aren't ours, and then never leave even after the Breach is sealed and Corypheus is dead. Who do we think we are? 'Saving the world' doesn't give you an eternal pass to set up your gigantic military force in a sovereign nation and not be looked at sideways.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 13, 2018 14:13:58 GMT
The thing is that the way things are managed in Ferelden has always been different from other nations. Nobility in Ferelden is not something you simply inherit, you have to earn it so far as the resources associated with the title are concerned. In a way being a noble is a job title. Their job is to protect the Freeholders. If they fail in that duty then the freeholders have the right to transfer their patronage elsewhere.
So in the example in Inquisition the freeholders of Crestwood had been failed by the local nobility. No one was helping to defend them and the local Keep had been occupied by bandits who were also preying on the locals and travellers alike. So along comes the Inquisitor, drives away the undead, kills the bandits and closes the rift. (I also killed the dragon threatening the area). Then they occupy the keep as a base of operations for keeping the peace in the locality. This was all perfectly legal under the traditions of Ferelden. So long as the freeholders were happy with their actions in the area then that is all that mattered. However, the views of the freeholders weren't even mentioned when it came to the criticism made of our organisation. Nor was it suggested that whoever had originally owned/possessed the keep had asked for it back in the interim period.
So in answer to the question, why hadn't we left after defeating Corypheus, the answer would be, because we were still playing a vital role in keeping the villagers and surrounding freeholders safe from threats, be they wild beasts, bandits or stray cultists. After all there continued to be bandits in the area even after we had driven out Corypheus' forces. Had the freeholders asked us to leave or transferred their allegiance (and money) to someone else, then we would be wrong to continue in occupation but until that happened we were perfectly within our rights to stay. This applied equally to the Inquisition as an organisation or the Inquisitor as an individual.
Still, at least I was able to say something along these lines with an aggressive disband. The only dialogue option I was happy with taking.
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Post by Fredward on Feb 13, 2018 14:43:14 GMT
inb4 Bioware's SJW globalist agenda.
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Post by rras1994 on Feb 13, 2018 14:48:40 GMT
The thing is that the way things are managed in Ferelden has always been different from other nations. Nobility in Ferelden is not something you simply inherit, you have to earn it so far as the resources associated with the title are concerned. In a way being a noble is a job title. Their job is to protect the Freeholders. If they fail in that duty then the freeholders have the right to transfer their patronage elsewhere. So in the example in Inquisition the freeholders of Crestwood had been failed by the local nobility. No one was helping to defend them and the local Keep had been occupied by bandits who were also preying on the locals and travellers alike. So along comes the Inquisitor, drives away the undead, kills the bandits and closes the rift. (I also killed the dragon threatening the area). Then they occupy the keep as a base of operations for keeping the peace in the locality. This was all perfectly legal under the traditions of Ferelden. So long as the freeholders were happy with their actions in the area then that is all that mattered. However, the views of the freeholders weren't even mentioned when it came to the criticism made of our organisation. Nor was it suggested that whoever had originally owned/possessed the keep had asked for it back in the interim period. So in answer to the question, why hadn't we left after defeating Corypheus, the answer would be, because we were still playing a vital role in keeping the villagers and surrounding freeholders safe from threats, be they wild beasts, bandits or stray cultists. After all there continued to be bandits in the area even after we had driven out Corypheus' forces. Had the freeholders asked us to leave or transferred their allegiance (and money) to someone else, then we would be wrong to continue in occupation but until that happened we were perfectly within our rights to stay. This applied equally to the Inquisition as an organisation or the Inquisitor as an individual. Still, at least I was able to say something along these lines with an aggressive disband. The only dialogue option I was happy with taking. This ignores the recent history of Fereldan though. It's not that long ago that they were occupied by Orlais and most importantly with the support of the Chantry which the Inquisition is strongly associated with (the Inquisitor is colleagues/associates with the Divine) . When you include the fact that Orlais has clear ambitions of trying to take other the Inquisition, that a large part of their civil war was large segments of the population not being happy with the empire's expansion being limited and that the Inquisition main base is right on Fereldan's border as well as them maintaing an armed presence in their land, it's no wonder they have a problem with it. We can't ignore the fact that the chantry has often been used by Orlais as a weapon against other nations, and the Inquisition is not going to be given the benfit of the doubt over that, given the continued millitary presence, the fact they have no real goal anymore (they don't know about Solas) and Orlais' obvious plans for it.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 6,651
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 13, 2018 15:04:18 GMT
About Teagan: I can understand his hostility: people rarely love to see a foreign army presence in their land after the peace restored, even if this army does not belong to a country, but a part of the organization/alliance. It's just uncomfortable. (My opinion, ofc.) Sometimes I feel like the only one who doesn't blame Teagan for being tetchy. We come in, declare ourselves awesome, take some Keeps that aren't ours, and then never leave even after the Breach is sealed and Corypheus is dead. Who do we think we are? 'Saving the world' doesn't give you an eternal pass to set up your gigantic military force in a sovereign nation and not be looked at sideways. But the game also gives us no opportunity to be nice about it. We don't have the option to hand the keeps back over to their original owners and maybe listen to or even alleviate any concerns they might be having about our presence. One could almost believe that the writers wanted to force the drama about the Inquisition being either disbanded or demoted to honor guard... basically, the writers made us act likes asses without having any input on the matter and then had the NPCs accuse us for it. Also, was I the only one who found it weird how much common ground the supposed archenemies Orlais and Ferelden seemed to have? I would have expected that at least one of them would try to get the Inquisition's military to side with their nation and tip the scales of power in their favor, but oddly nothing like that happened. Could have made for some fun political intrigue.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 13, 2018 15:35:49 GMT
This ignores the recent history of Fereldan though. It's not that long ago that they were occupied by Orlais and most importantly with the support of the Chantry which the Inquisition is strongly associated with (the Inquisitor is colleagues/associates with the Divine) . When you include the fact that Orlais has clear ambitions of trying to take other the Inquisition, that a large part of their civil war was large segments of the population not being happy with the empire's expansion being limited and that the Inquisition main base is right on Fereldan's border as well as them maintaing an armed presence in their land, it's no wonder they have a problem with it. We can't ignore the fact that the chantry has often been used by Orlais as a weapon against other nations, and the Inquisition is not going to be given the benfit of the doubt over that, given the continued millitary presence, the fact they have no real goal anymore (they don't know about Solas) and Orlais' obvious plans for it. The traditions of Ferelden were still applicable after the Orlesian occupation. The Core Rule Book makes that clear. Crestwood is not an important strategic location like Redcliffe Castle. The other Keeps we occupied were in Orlais so didn't affect Ferelden. Our presence there was far less intrusive. As for Skyhold, I'd say that was neutral ground. However, recent history does bring up a couple of other strange things that occurred in DAI. First, that Orlesian noble turning up at Haven and laying claim to it, saying that the monarch of Ferelden had gifted it to his wife. Odd, considering no one even knew it existed until 10 years earlier, well after the Orlesian occupation and why would a monarch of Ferelden have given over title of any part of Ferelden to an Orlesian? Second, that whole business about approaching the Templars at Therinfall with the support of Orlesian nobles, when the fortress was situated well within Ferelden territory, so at the very least it should have been a combined delegation of Orlesian and Ferelden nobles but principally the latter. I take the point about our links with the Chantry, although I personally wanted nothing to do with them. Again, this is why my preferred option was disband because there is no way I wanted my organisation to be the Divine's private army, so I ended up giving Ferelden exactly what they demanded and apparently, according to Dorian, what Tevinter wanted too. I think I would have been happier if my speech could have included handing back the responsibility for caring for the people of Ferelden to the local nobility. It just seemed to me that those in power wanted me out of the way without any guarantee that the ordinary people would receive the same protection going forward.
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Post by Lazarillo on Feb 13, 2018 16:01:59 GMT
If we expand the national representation checklist to party members, we also have Nevarra, Tevinter and Seheron (the Qun). And if you include multiplayer characters/Agents, then you can also put Orzammar, the Dalish and the Avvar on the list. The only countries/tribes not really represented in the Inquisition are Rivain, the Anerfels and the Chasind. Rivain is represented in the multiplayer. Or does Isabela not count for some reason?
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Post by Catilina on Feb 13, 2018 16:06:31 GMT
If we expand the national representation checklist to party members, we also have Nevarra, Tevinter and Seheron (the Qun). And if you include multiplayer characters/Agents, then you can also put Orzammar, the Dalish and the Avvar on the list. The only countries/tribes not really represented in the Inquisition are Rivain, the Anerfels and the Chasind. Rivain is represented in the multiplayer. Or does Isabela not count for some reason? Vivienne's parents also Rivaini, true, she born in the Free Marches, and defines herself as "from the Circle".
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Post by thats1evildude on Feb 13, 2018 16:48:30 GMT
If we expand the national representation checklist to party members, we also have Nevarra, Tevinter and Seheron (the Qun). And if you include multiplayer characters/Agents, then you can also put Orzammar, the Dalish and the Avvar on the list. The only countries/tribes not really represented in the Inquisition are Rivain, the Anerfels and the Chasind. Rivain is represented in the multiplayer. Or does Isabela not count for some reason? I’m not entirely certain if Isabela’s cameo in the MP is actually canon, so I left it off the list. All the other MP Agents are named in War Table operations or appear during the story campaign. She is not. Varric and Hawke may mention her, but only to say she’s off doing her own thing.
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N2
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 63 Likes: 57
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Post by Templar Knight on Feb 14, 2018 21:49:03 GMT
I feel like this diversity of nationalities was probably intentional... and probably something everyone else noticed right off the bat. >_> Nope, hadn't noticed. Other than Cullen, I don't think any of them speak of home with any particular fondness, so they're not exactly great reps of their respective countries There's at least *one* conversation with Josephine where she speaks very fondly of Antiva. I think you can even ask her if she's homesick.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 14, 2018 21:56:46 GMT
Nope, hadn't noticed. Other than Cullen, I don't think any of them speak of home with any particular fondness, so they're not exactly great reps of their respective countries There's at least *one* conversation with Josephine where she speaks very fondly of Antiva. I think you can even ask her if she's homesick. Plus I recall them saying that Josephine only dresses in Antivan fashion - implying that she's proud of her heritage or at least thinks fondly of it.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Feb 14, 2018 22:12:04 GMT
Nope, hadn't noticed. Other than Cullen, I don't think any of them speak of home with any particular fondness, so they're not exactly great reps of their respective countries There's at least *one* conversation with Josephine where she speaks very fondly of Antiva. I think you can even ask her if she's homesick. Lol: to be honest, since she lacks an approval bar (she comes pre bagged, as it were) I haven't talked to her since my 2nd PT with any depth. Silver lining is, when I do romance her it'll all be new again. Good to hear she likes Antiva, but she doesn't seem to add to the lore of the country
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Templar Knight
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 63 Likes: 57
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Templar Knight
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Jan 19, 2018 17:31:08 GMT
January 2018
templarknight
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Templar Knight on Feb 15, 2018 1:41:01 GMT
There's at least *one* conversation with Josephine where she speaks very fondly of Antiva. I think you can even ask her if she's homesick. Lol: to be honest, since she lacks an approval bar (she comes pre bagged, as it were) I haven't talked to her since my 2nd PT with any depth. Silver lining is, when I do romance her it'll all be new again. Good to hear she likes Antiva, but she doesn't seem to add to the lore of the country Depends what you mean by lore. I learned a couple things relating to Antiva that interested me.
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