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Post by warden on Feb 16, 2018 15:22:49 GMT
Yeah, sorry peps, i'm bored and didn't have anything more interesting to ask than this thing again.
But first let's do a quick summarize on how the tone of the series has evolved.
(all from my perspective, don't worry I don't talk for others like most do)
We have Origins, that presents how dire, grim, hard, ambiguous, dark, grey (and whatever you can imagine) the Thedas universe is.
We have DA 2, that presents how hard and sad can be for a person the universe presented in the first game.
We have Inquisition, that I honestly don't know what tries to show so i'll leave it to others.
Okay, now the next installment will take place inside an Empire that as far as I know it's a place that is rotted to the core, basically it's a madhouse, slavery it's like trading Yu-gi-oh! cards (think of Magic the gathering if you don't know Yu-gi-oh!), has incest, blood magic gives pleasure, and whatever you can imagine from a rotted/rotting country.
So, well yeah, that's the question, seeing how the series has evolved, (in fact imo the series evolved the first two games, the third one basically just changed completely) the question (or questions better said) for you peps is this one/ones.
What kind of tone the next installment should have? Should have censorship (hidden censorship in some cases) or not? And what kind of things should be shown and what should not be shown?
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 16, 2018 15:32:50 GMT
I'm hoping things are: shiny like DAI, more obviously grim like DAO/DA2. Tevinter is, on the surface, darkly beautiful, mysterious, ancient, and chock full of magic. But underneath the glamour and glitz and oily decadence it's not a pretty place for anyone who's not an upper-class mage. Malicious blood magic and sacrifice is par for the course. Slavery is everywhere and slavery apologists are everywhere.
I want DA4 to be an exquisite oil painting with rot underneath, and I want to peel it back layer by layer.
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Post by phoray on Feb 16, 2018 16:01:05 GMT
I'm feeling a nap coming on, so I'll come back to answer more properly.
but DAI was dark, it was just terrible at showing it on screen. It was all in letters but Blackwall, Iron Bull, Leliana, and Solas' betrayal/quests show it pretty well too. Oh yeah, and Cole. Especially Cole.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 16, 2018 17:26:50 GMT
I don't see how it can be anything other than utterly grimdark, with patches of humor for contrast. It should be a war setting, with the Qunari invading or sieging Tevinter. Then there will be Solas's "army" working in the shadows towards the goal of bringing the Veil down.
The trajectory of the narrative pretty much demands that it be the most grimdark entry in the franchise to date. Particularly so if a new Blight breaks out, or if the Titans start tossing mountains around.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 16, 2018 17:32:26 GMT
I'm feeling a nap coming on, so I'll come back to answer more properly. but DAI was dark, it was just terrible at showing it on screen. It was all in letters but Blackwall, Iron Bull, Leliana, and Solas' betrayal/quests show it pretty well too. Oh yeah, and Cole. Especially Cole. Yeah as long as it's an interesting and good story with a good world to explore then I'm happy enough to leave the finer details to the writers
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Post by coldsteelblue on Feb 16, 2018 17:43:06 GMT
I'm hoping things are: shiny like DAI, more obviously grim like DAO/DA2. Tevinter is, on the surface, darkly beautiful, mysterious, ancient, and chock full of magic. But underneath the glamour and glitz and oily decadence it's not a pretty place for anyone who's not an upper-class mage. Malicious blood magic and sacrifice is par for the course. Slavery is everywhere and slavery apologists are everywhere. I want DA4 to be an exquisite oil painting with rot underneath, and I want to peel it back layer by layer. Pretty much this, with some black humour to boot.
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Post by tacsear on Feb 16, 2018 17:53:24 GMT
I would prefer darker tones presented in the first 2 games but more importantly I want the protagonist to be in the role they will be because of things they can do, not because they have certain things
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Post by Reznore on Feb 16, 2018 17:59:59 GMT
Tevinter is supposed to be a decadent empire on the decline. We might also have a parralel story with Solas who'd better get to terms with past glories, and learn about letting go. On top of it where DAI was in part about faith, in my opinion Tevinter should be more about lies, (Tevinter stealing everything from ancient elven culture and lying, converting to Andrastian faith and lying again about the Blight "Not Us!" , etc...) You add slavery to the mix and the fact that Tevinter is ruthless and very proud of it well...
I don't feel like the Qunari conflict, beyond the obvious horror of war is that dark or complex. Qunari loathe magic users, Tevinter are defending themselves. They've been fighting for what 300 years? It's hard to feel bad for either side.
On the bright side they have a somewhat vaguely democratic political body with the magisterium. Reformists can have a voice, but er...they also tend to get murdered... Dorian implies it's a beautiful country (he calls Kirkwall a "shithole") full of passionate people. I'd prefer something dark honestly but we might end up in a sunny land full of tsundere.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 17, 2018 1:03:19 GMT
I'm hoping things are: shiny like DAI, more obviously grim like DAO/DA2. Tevinter is, on the surface, darkly beautiful, mysterious, ancient, and chock full of magic. But underneath the glamour and glitz and oily decadence it's not a pretty place for anyone who's not an upper-class mage. Malicious blood magic and sacrifice is par for the course. Slavery is everywhere and slavery apologists are everywhere. I want DA4 to be an exquisite oil painting with rot underneath, and I want to peel it back layer by layer. This is perfect.
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 17, 2018 1:51:08 GMT
Not the Witcher.
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Post by Raga on Feb 17, 2018 15:31:32 GMT
Fairly nonchalant about this. Two things I know I don't want though:
1. Grimdark
2. a story that takes place over more than 1 or 2 years
@theo
Would be okay with the Witcher 3 as it's considerably less grimdark and focuses more on magic and fantasy elements. It also has more humor, more chances to be conventionally heroic, and less fixation on boobs and f-bombs. What I don't want is the Witcher 2 which is like wannabe Game of Thrones or the Witcher 1 which is like a 14 year old boy's impression of what it means to be "badass."
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Post by Fredward on Feb 17, 2018 15:37:01 GMT
Is Penny Dreadful a tone?
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Post by phoray on Feb 17, 2018 15:37:14 GMT
2. a story that takes place over more than 1 or 2 years why? just curious
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Post by Raga on Feb 17, 2018 15:38:40 GMT
I would prefer darker tones presented in the first 2 games but more importantly I want the protagonist to be in the role they will be because of things they can do, not because they have certain things This is kinda just part and partial of how Bioware games work though. You usually start as some nobody who becomes indispensable for some reason and you have to grow into the role. I actually like this theme pretty well for RPGs as it 1) explains why you start the game as a nebbish and 2) allows you to develop your character into whatever you want as growth is part of central story. The only character who really breaks this mold is Shepard and I always found it weird that Shepard starts the game as a neophyte in terms of abilities, and though I really enjoy Shepard, she is one of the more rigid characters in a Bioware game and you are fairly limited with what you can do with her. If they go this route, I at least hope they have different backgrounds to chose from such as Shepard had so that I can at least dictate some of my character's flavor and I'm not on a preset path.
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Post by Raga on Feb 17, 2018 15:40:49 GMT
2. a story that takes place over more than 1 or 2 years why? just curious Because Bioware sucks at pacing. And, moreover, most game I've played like this have severe pacing problems: DA2 and the Fable games leap immediately to mind.
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Post by phoray on Feb 17, 2018 15:52:01 GMT
Because Bioware sucks at pacing. And, moreover, most game I've played like this have severe pacing problems: DA2 and the Fable games leap immediately to mind. I personally didn't register a pacing issue in DA2, except for Fenris' romance where it takes him 3 years to come back round to Hawke, which seemed an exceptional amount of time to wait for someone. Since I don't register the problem, if you feel up to it that is, can you explain in more detail what the issues you saw were?
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Post by tacsear on Feb 17, 2018 17:22:39 GMT
I would prefer darker tones presented in the first 2 games but more importantly I want the protagonist to be in the role they will be because of things they can do, not because they have certain things This is kinda just part and partial of how Bioware games work though. You usually start as some nobody who becomes indispensable for some reason and you have to grow into the role. I actually like this theme pretty well for RPGs as it 1) explains why you start the game as a nebbish and 2) allows you to develop your character into whatever you want as growth is part of central story. The only character who really breaks this mold is Shepard and I always found it weird that Shepard starts the game as a neophyte in terms of abilities, and though I really enjoy Shepard, she is one of the more rigid characters in a Bioware game and you are fairly limited with what you can do with her. If they go this route, I at least hope they have different backgrounds to chose from such as Shepard had so that I can at least dictate some of my character's flavor and I'm not on a preset path. No, I mean I want the protagonist to be the hero because of their own talents. Unlike Inquisitor, who had an accidental mark in their hand or Ryder, who can do things without any background or experience just because they have an AI in their mind.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 17, 2018 18:06:14 GMT
Is Penny Dreadful a tone? Oh yes! That's Lovecraftian grimdark.
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Post by Raga on Feb 17, 2018 18:15:44 GMT
This is kinda just part and partial of how Bioware games work though. You usually start as some nobody who becomes indispensable for some reason and you have to grow into the role. I actually like this theme pretty well for RPGs as it 1) explains why you start the game as a nebbish and 2) allows you to develop your character into whatever you want as growth is part of central story. The only character who really breaks this mold is Shepard and I always found it weird that Shepard starts the game as a neophyte in terms of abilities, and though I really enjoy Shepard, she is one of the more rigid characters in a Bioware game and you are fairly limited with what you can do with her. If they go this route, I at least hope they have different backgrounds to chose from such as Shepard had so that I can at least dictate some of my character's flavor and I'm not on a preset path. No, I mean I want the protagonist to be the hero because of their own talents. Unlike Inquisitor, who had an accidental mark in their hand or Ryder, who can do things without any background or experience just because they have an AI in their mind. But that's just my point. That's literally how *all* Bioware games work except for Shepard & Hawke. 1. BG1 & 2: You are the hero because you are a Bhaalspawn, in fact *the* Bhaalspawn in Alaundo's prophecies. 2. KotoR: You are the hero because you are Revan, albeit with amnesia. 3. JE: You are the hero because you are the last of the Spirit Monks. 4. DAO: You are the hero because you are one of only 2 surviving Grey Wardens in Ferelden during a blight. 5. DAI: You are the hero because you have the mark and are the only one who can close rifts. 6. MEA: You are the hero because you are the one Alec Ryder fulling transferred SAM to. I like this formula. It does a good job of giving me a lot of control over my character because they start as nobody, while also explaining why this nobody would be entrusted with something so important.
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Post by Raga on Feb 17, 2018 18:23:55 GMT
Because Bioware sucks at pacing. And, moreover, most game I've played like this have severe pacing problems: DA2 and the Fable games leap immediately to mind. I personally didn't register a pacing issue in DA2, except for Fenris' romance where it takes him 3 years to come back round to Hawke, which seemed an exceptional amount of time to wait for someone. Since I don't register the problem, if you feel up to it that is, can you explain in more detail what the issues you saw were? The Fenris thing is a good example, but there is general wonkiness with character progression: such as the weird spurts of activity in Merrill's interaction with the mirror, or the weird spurts in Sebastian's plotline. In fact, the only one I think who has fairly natural, consistent progression is Avelline. There are also issues with the game's main conflicts, which can't seem to make up their mind if they want to tell one over-arching story or a bunch of act long novellas. The game careens rather wildly between Qunari stuff and mage/templar stuff, stretching the former out to improbable length and placing the second in hiatus at weird times. It comes off like "okay time for Meredith & Co. to go into hibernation for a year so we can deal with these Qunari" and such or "I know these Qunari have been doing nothing but sitting on their asses for X years, but today is finally the day for them to explode!"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2018 18:35:00 GMT
Not high fantasy smhm.
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Post by tacsear on Feb 17, 2018 18:47:35 GMT
No, I mean I want the protagonist to be the hero because of their own talents. Unlike Inquisitor, who had an accidental mark in their hand or Ryder, who can do things without any background or experience just because they have an AI in their mind. But that's just my point. That's literally how *all* Bioware games work except for Shepard & Hawke. 1. BG1 & 2: You are the hero because you are a Bhaalspawn, in fact *the* Bhaalspawn in Alaundo's prophecies. 2. KotoR: You are the hero because you are Revan, albeit with amnesia. 3. JE: You are the hero because you are the last of the Spirit Monks. 4. DAO: You are the hero because you are one of only 2 surviving Grey Wardens in Ferelden during a blight. 5. DAI: You are the hero because you have the mark and are the only one who can close rifts. 6. MEA: You are the hero because you are the one Alec Ryder fulling transferred SAM to. I like this formula. It does a good job of giving me a lot of control over my character because they start as nobody, while also explaining why this nobody would be entrusted with something so important. Didn't play BG and JE so I cannot comment on those. But; KOTOR: Revan is Revan because his leadership abilities and combat skills. He didn't need anything else to make him special. DAO: You survive because Duncan takes note of your skills and thinks you would make a fine addition to the Wardens. Again noting is required except your own talents. As you said that is also the case with Shepard and Hawke. They are all individuals who were capable of doing big things without needing a "plot device".
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Post by warden on Feb 17, 2018 19:23:24 GMT
Another thing i'll add to this.
While The Warden can be viewed as a Hero for certain persons, The Warden isn't really a hero, it's a Warden and it's doing what is expected of him, end the Blight, nothing more nothing less.
The only Hero so far in Dragon Age is The Inquisitor.
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Post by davkar on Feb 17, 2018 20:36:04 GMT
Dark and twisted! Blood sacrifices, incest ('pure' bloodlines), qunari pow camp for mages, etc. Of course the key is "tell, don't show"! Broodmother and zombie-Leandra are among my favorite DA moments. The end results are disturbing but most of the unease comes from the dwarf's chanting and as we uncover the notes in that maniac's hideout. I hope DA4 can give us something like these.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2018 21:19:55 GMT
Another thing i'll add to this. While The Warden can be viewed as a Hero for certain persons, The Warden isn't really a hero, it's a Warden and it's doing what is expected of him, end the Blight, nothing more nothing less. The only Hero so far in Dragon Age is The Inquisitor. And Hawke is just that one dude that sits around Kirkwall doing chores for other people in their spare time, lmao. My Hawke would literally run away if they found him and tried to make him Inquisitor, I just can't image my Hawke being very happy as Inquisitor....
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