Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Apr 16, 2018 0:50:50 GMT
I watched the pilot episode of this series and I have to say that I am not that impressed. While the premise and the general feel of the science fiction elements looked appealing, on average I was taken out of the story because of very common and trope-y plot points. First of all, the whole "Oh the atmosphere is earth-like, so we can totally remove our sealed space suits" bit had me rolling my eyes so much that I almost dislocated my optic nerves. Does the concept of foreign micro-organisms and bacteria running rampant over human immune systems, that have no defenses against alien environments, never occur for these story writers and directors? I swear, such careless antics like that are Prometheus or Alien:Covenant levels of stupid. If the next episode doesn't show all members of the Robinson family bleeding out of their eyes, or crapping out their internal organs while screaming in agony I'm going to be disappointed. Granted this is a common trope, and I know that it shouldn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but don't try and sell a realistic science fiction setting but then immediately turn around and throw common sense and logic out the window for something so basic. Well, to be fair, on an alien world where evolution could go any number of directions, it's unlikely that any foreign bodies would be able to interact with us at all (I mean, the odds that their genetic material would even resemble DNA would likely be remote). Thus no risk of infection. On the flip side, though, that means that humanity would be unlikely to find any nutrition from the local flora or fauna.
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Post by Vortex13 on Apr 16, 2018 1:00:38 GMT
I watched the pilot episode of this series and I have to say that I am not that impressed. While the premise and the general feel of the science fiction elements looked appealing, on average I was taken out of the story because of very common and trope-y plot points. First of all, the whole "Oh the atmosphere is earth-like, so we can totally remove our sealed space suits" bit had me rolling my eyes so much that I almost dislocated my optic nerves. Does the concept of foreign micro-organisms and bacteria running rampant over human immune systems, that have no defenses against alien environments, never occur for these story writers and directors? I swear, such careless antics like that are Prometheus or Alien:Covenant levels of stupid. If the next episode doesn't show all members of the Robinson family bleeding out of their eyes, or crapping out their internal organs while screaming in agony I'm going to be disappointed. Granted this is a common trope, and I know that it shouldn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but don't try and sell a realistic science fiction setting but then immediately turn around and throw common sense and logic out the window for something so basic. Well, to be fair, on an alien world where evolution could go any number of directions, it's unlikely that any foreign bodies would be able to interact with us at all (I mean, the odds that their genetic material would even resemble DNA would likely be remote). Thus no risk of infection. On the flip side, though, that means that humanity would be unlikely to find any nutrition from the local flora or fauna. Good point on the lack of nutrition from the local wildlife, I forgot to think about that. And even ignoring the viral/infection side of things there's still the whole deal with floral pollen as well as plant and animal pheromones or toxins to deal with. Here on earth, the only reason we don't get violently ill, or break out in hives when we walk barefoot in the grass is because we are acclimated to the natural defenses and excretions of those extremely common plants. Chances are far more likely that Will Robinson would be going into anaphylactic shock from just walking around the alien forest than him being completely unaffected.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Apr 16, 2018 1:41:45 GMT
20 minutes in and it's borderline absurd with logical inconsistencies. Netflix seems to offer great production values for their series but the writing is frequently crap.
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Post by mybudgee on Apr 16, 2018 1:44:27 GMT
20 minutes in and it's borderline absurd with logical inconsistencies. Netflix seems to offer great production values for their series but the writing is frequently crap. Disney will be the perfect Pepsi to their Coca-cola then...
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Post by Sifr on Apr 16, 2018 4:58:18 GMT
Good point on the lack of nutrition from the local wildlife, I forgot to think about that. And even ignoring the viral/infection side of things there's still the whole deal with floral pollen as well as plant and animal pheromones or toxins to deal with. Here on earth, the only reason we don't get violently ill, or break out in hives when we walk barefoot in the grass is because we are acclimated to the natural defenses and excretions of those extremely common plants. Chances are far more likely that Will Robinson would be going into anaphylactic shock from just walking around the alien forest than him being completely unaffected. One of the flashbacks mentions that the colonists are required to take immuno-boosters, most likely designed to help ease their acclimatisation into non-terrestial environments. Of course, you could argue they may have been designed with Alpha Centauri in mind, but it seems they function well enough on Planet Bob. (They don't actually give the planet a name in the show, so that's what I'm going with). The food situation seems relatively easy to justify, as we do see plenty of rations stored in their ships. The colony on Alpha Centauri also was mentioned to grow their own crops, (likely brought from Earth), so it doesn't seem like the colonists ever planned to subsist off the local flora/fauna. Of course, since they crashed, they're now forced to rely solely on their (emergency) rations, so that makes long-term survival a little trickier. (Don't think I have to spoiler tag any of that, since it's mostly background information and not plot-relevant)
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Post by Vortex13 on Apr 16, 2018 13:23:40 GMT
Good point on the lack of nutrition from the local wildlife, I forgot to think about that. And even ignoring the viral/infection side of things there's still the whole deal with floral pollen as well as plant and animal pheromones or toxins to deal with. Here on earth, the only reason we don't get violently ill, or break out in hives when we walk barefoot in the grass is because we are acclimated to the natural defenses and excretions of those extremely common plants. Chances are far more likely that Will Robinson would be going into anaphylactic shock from just walking around the alien forest than him being completely unaffected. One of the flashbacks mentions that the colonists are required to take immuno-boosters, most likely designed to help ease their acclimatisation into non-terrestial environments. Of course, you could argue they may have been designed with Alpha Centauri in mind, but it seems they function well enough on Planet Bob. (They don't actually give the planet a name in the show, so that's what I'm going with). The food situation seems relatively easy to justify, as we do see plenty of rations stored in their ships. The colony on Alpha Centauri also was mentioned to grow their own crops, (likely brought from Earth), so it doesn't seem like the colonists ever planned to subsist off the local flora/fauna. Of course, since they crashed, they're now forced to rely solely on their (emergency) rations, so that makes long-term survival a little trickier. (Don't think I have to spoiler tag any of that, since it's mostly background information and not plot-relevant) I get why the narrative makes such concessions, mostly because of budgetary concerns, but do these shows and movies always have to do it in such a profoundly dumb fashion? Immuno-boosters or not, mama Robinson taking off her helmet and going "It's totes fine here!" is laughably stupid for any hard(ish) science fiction setting. That would be like saying that since we have developed a means of defending against and curing the bubonic plague that we can just roll around in a bathtub full of pus & infected materials and suffer no ill effects.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Apr 16, 2018 14:16:24 GMT
One of the flashbacks mentions that the colonists are required to take immuno-boosters, most likely designed to help ease their acclimatisation into non-terrestial environments. Of course, you could argue they may have been designed with Alpha Centauri in mind, but it seems they function well enough on Planet Bob. (They don't actually give the planet a name in the show, so that's what I'm going with). The food situation seems relatively easy to justify, as we do see plenty of rations stored in their ships. The colony on Alpha Centauri also was mentioned to grow their own crops, (likely brought from Earth), so it doesn't seem like the colonists ever planned to subsist off the local flora/fauna. Of course, since they crashed, they're now forced to rely solely on their (emergency) rations, so that makes long-term survival a little trickier. (Don't think I have to spoiler tag any of that, since it's mostly background information and not plot-relevant) I get why the narrative makes such concessions, mostly because of budgetary concerns, but do these shows and movies always have to do it in such a profoundly dumb fashion? Immuno-boosters or not, mama Robinson taking off her helmet and going "It's totes fine here!" is laughably stupid for any hard(ish) science fiction setting. That would be like saying that since we have developed a means of defending against and curing the bubonic plague that we can just roll around in a bathtub full of pus & infected materials and suffer no ill effects. The thing is, I don't think this was ever going to be hard science fiction. The original certainly wasn't! I guess I can overlook things like a totally habitable alien biome because, well, virtually every tv series done in my lifetime has used that trope: Star Trek, Stargate, Farscape, Babylon 5 Dark Matter, Killjoys, etc.
I think the "hardest" science fiction program to come out in the last two decades that dealt with alien worlds was actually Firefly. Which really says something.
Edit: Don't take this to mean I wouldn't like the science to be a little harder. Just that, well, this is based on a show which had an episode where Strother Martin played a space prospector mining for "Cosmonium", so expectations in that department were kinda low...
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Post by Vortex13 on Apr 16, 2018 15:02:22 GMT
I get why the narrative makes such concessions, mostly because of budgetary concerns, but do these shows and movies always have to do it in such a profoundly dumb fashion? Immuno-boosters or not, mama Robinson taking off her helmet and going "It's totes fine here!" is laughably stupid for any hard(ish) science fiction setting. That would be like saying that since we have developed a means of defending against and curing the bubonic plague that we can just roll around in a bathtub full of pus & infected materials and suffer no ill effects. The thing is, I don't think this was ever going to be hard science fiction. The original certainly wasn't! I guess I can overlook things like a totally habitable alien biome because, well, virtually every tv series done in my lifetime has used that trope: Star Trek, Stargate, Farscape, Babylon 5 Dark Matter, Killjoys, etc.
I think the "hardest" science fiction program to come out in the last two decades that dealt with alien worlds was actually Firefly. Which really says something.
Edit: Don't take this to mean I wouldn't like the science to be a little harder. Just that, well, this is based on a show which had an episode where Strother Martin played a space prospector mining for "Cosmonium", so expectations in that department were kinda low...
I get that its a common trope, and really, it doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things; especially when compared with the rather poor and inconsistent writing (IMO). But the series was being marketed as a more ground science fiction setting than the likes of Star Trek or Farscape. If the Robinsons had showed up on the planet wearing nothing but jeans and t-shirts I wouldn't have second guessed the narrative non-logic behind this trope. But when your opening moments are of the family in sealed pressure suits all locking into crash harnesses, to one of the first things the characters say about the planet they find themselves on is that they have no idea if the atmosphere is sustainable for human life, it kinda clashes with that implied "realism" to then turn around and have the mom pull off her helmet and instantly declare the world completely habitable. Truth be told though, I could probably have overlooked that particular trope if the show wasn't so inundated with the whole 'family drama' shtick. It was so predictably cliché (like a crappy CW show) in how the Robinsons acted towards each other that I began to pick apart the other elements of the show. This is the second LiS remake to try and work that trope into the overall narrative, which is rather funny considering the original Robinson family wasn't anywhere close to being dysfunctional.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 17, 2018 0:18:27 GMT
Damn it’s good to hear more of Christopher Lennertz’s work. He was always my favorite among Mass Effect’s composers. If I had to choose one to come back to do another Mass Effect, it would definitely be him.
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N7
Biotic Booty
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 17, 2018 17:56:31 GMT
Anyone else notice that the robot from Lost in Space is a geth?
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 17, 2018 17:58:13 GMT
Anyone else notice that the robot from Lost in Space is a geth? I wasn’t sure I’d like Robot from the looks of it, but it turned out to be one of my favorite things in the show.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 17, 2018 18:00:16 GMT
Anyone else notice that the robot from Lost in Space is a geth? I wasn’t sure I’d like Robot from the looks of it, but it turned out to be one of my favorite things in the show. Definitely the most honest on the show.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 18, 2018 2:43:57 GMT
I get why the narrative makes such concessions, mostly because of budgetary concerns, but do these shows and movies always have to do it in such a profoundly dumb fashion? Immuno-boosters or not, mama Robinson taking off her helmet and going "It's totes fine here!" is laughably stupid for any hard(ish) science fiction setting. That would be like saying that since we have developed a means of defending against and curing the bubonic plague that we can just roll around in a bathtub full of pus & infected materials and suffer no ill effects. Or as Galaxy Quest so aptly put it; Every science-fiction movie/show needs more genre-savvy characters (and Sam Rockwell)
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Post by House Targaryen on Apr 18, 2018 6:49:54 GMT
The robot is a Cylon, version .0001
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 19, 2018 5:33:38 GMT
The thing is, I don't think this was ever going to be hard science fiction. The original certainly wasn't! I guess I can overlook things like a totally habitable alien biome because, well, virtually every tv series done in my lifetime has used that trope: Star Trek, Stargate, Farscape, Babylon 5 Dark Matter, Killjoys, etc.
I think the "hardest" science fiction program to come out in the last two decades that dealt with alien worlds was actually Firefly. Which really says something.
Edit: Don't take this to mean I wouldn't like the science to be a little harder. Just that, well, this is based on a show which had an episode where Strother Martin played a space prospector mining for "Cosmonium", so expectations in that department were kinda low...
I get that its a common trope, and really, it doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things; especially when compared with the rather poor and inconsistent writing (IMO). But the series was being marketed as a more ground science fiction setting than the likes of Star Trek or Farscape. If the Robinsons had showed up on the planet wearing nothing but jeans and t-shirts I wouldn't have second guessed the narrative non-logic behind this trope. But when your opening moments are of the family in sealed pressure suits all locking into crash harnesses, to one of the first things the characters say about the planet they find themselves on is that they have no idea if the atmosphere is sustainable for human life, it kinda clashes with that implied "realism" to then turn around and have the mom pull off her helmet and instantly declare the world completely habitable. Truth be told though, I could probably have overlooked that particular trope if the show wasn't so inundated with the whole 'family drama' shtick. It was so predictably cliché (like a crappy CW show) in how the Robinsons acted towards each other that I began to pick apart the other elements of the show. This is the second LiS remake to try and work that trope into the overall narrative, which is rather funny considering the original Robinson family wasn't anywhere close to being dysfunctional. The scene you mention with Maureen and the helmet doesn’t actually play out like you say. The reason she determined that the atmosphere was habitable was because John’s suit was ruptured, and was like that since the crash. She outright says that if the atmosphere had been toxic, he would have been dead already.
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Post by Vortex13 on Apr 19, 2018 12:47:35 GMT
I get that its a common trope, and really, it doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things; especially when compared with the rather poor and inconsistent writing (IMO). But the series was being marketed as a more ground science fiction setting than the likes of Star Trek or Farscape. If the Robinsons had showed up on the planet wearing nothing but jeans and t-shirts I wouldn't have second guessed the narrative non-logic behind this trope. But when your opening moments are of the family in sealed pressure suits all locking into crash harnesses, to one of the first things the characters say about the planet they find themselves on is that they have no idea if the atmosphere is sustainable for human life, it kinda clashes with that implied "realism" to then turn around and have the mom pull off her helmet and instantly declare the world completely habitable. Truth be told though, I could probably have overlooked that particular trope if the show wasn't so inundated with the whole 'family drama' shtick. It was so predictably cliché (like a crappy CW show) in how the Robinsons acted towards each other that I began to pick apart the other elements of the show. This is the second LiS remake to try and work that trope into the overall narrative, which is rather funny considering the original Robinson family wasn't anywhere close to being dysfunctional. The scene you mention with Maureen and the helmet doesn’t actually play out like you say. The reason she determined that the atmosphere was habitable was because John’s suit was ruptured, and was like that since the crash. She outright says that if the atmosphere had been toxic, he would have been dead already. <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="7.980000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62000000000012px; height: 7.980000000000018px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_7139078" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="7.980000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62px; height: 7.98px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1121px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_4129147" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="7.980000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62px; height: 7.98px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 336px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_53512828" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="7.980000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62px; height: 7.98px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1121px; top: 336px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_65062032" scrolling="no"></iframe> So based on flimsy and circumstantial evidence she puts her, and the rest of the family's lives, in danger. For all she knew John's suit could have just been ruptured and/or over pressurized to compensate for the breach. And even if the atmosphere was within human standards that says nothing to any pathogens, viruses, bacteria, or even alien pollen or that would be present on such a planet. Their bodies would have no defenses against such things, immuno booster shots or not, seeing as how it is a completely alien planet.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 19, 2018 13:00:56 GMT
If his suit was over-pressurized, the escaping air as the pressure equalized to the external environment would have been noticed.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 19, 2018 17:52:26 GMT
Since at that point the Jupiter 2 was underwater with (seemingly) no means of recovery, they only had a couple hours of air in their suits and the temperature was already dropping below freezing... how exactly more screwed could they get?
That's not to say that removing her suit on a hunch wasn't reckless, but they were in a situation where chances are, they'd all be dead in a few hours anyway. John's suit rupture demonstrated the planet's atmosphere was breathable, so they might as well take their suits off, rather than die unnecessarily from hypoxia.
Besides, with hypothermia, starvation and injuries sustained from the crash still immediate threats to their survival, they might be dead long before any alien virus or bacteria could end up killing them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2018 12:17:43 GMT
I don't like how Will killed the robot - he was being attacked by the woman with the gun! He was innocent of any and all crimes! He was defending himself. I don't like how Will allowed for the crazy woman, Dr. Smith, to be able to control the robot. He made a worse situation worse by killing an innocent robot.
Sorry just my rant about that. I didn't like that part too terribly much..
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 21, 2018 18:53:41 GMT
I think I love the series so far. The ending made me even more hopeful for the next season.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Apr 29, 2018 3:24:37 GMT
I don't like how Will killed the robot - he was being attacked by the woman with the gun! He was innocent of any and all crimes! He was defending himself. I don't like how Will allowed for the crazy woman, Dr. Smith, to be able to control the robot. He made a worse situation worse by killing an innocent robot.
Sorry just my rant about that. I didn't like that part too terribly much.. The Robot also injured Will's father in the process. I think that's what he was responding to when he "killed" the Robot. I do think it's funny that: "Doctor Smith's" real name was Jennifer Harris. The actor who played the original Smith was Jonathan Harris
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Sundance31us
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sundance31us on Apr 29, 2018 3:42:42 GMT
For reference Jonathan Harris... Another interesting fact... Jonathan Harris trained Chuck Norris to speak correctly: "The Lost in Space actor was Chuck Norris’ vocal coach for years, and “taught him how to speak” by sticking his fingers in Norris’ mouth. Norris’ claims that Harris is the only person in the world he would allow to do that." ~ AMC Eight True Facts About Chuch Norris #8 Edit: Fix video link
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2018 5:16:44 GMT
I don't like how Will killed the robot - he was being attacked by the woman with the gun! He was innocent of any and all crimes! He was defending himself. I don't like how Will allowed for the crazy woman, Dr. Smith, to be able to control the robot. He made a worse situation worse by killing an innocent robot.
Sorry just my rant about that. I didn't like that part too terribly much.. The Robot also injured Will's father in the process. I think that's what he was responding to when he "killed" the Robot. I do think it's funny that: "Doctor Smith's" real name was Jennifer Harris. The actor who played the original Smith was Jonathan Harris Yeah but he was practicing self-defence, it was nought for him to kill him like that when he's dangerous and if he gets into the wrong hands, what he'll do to them. I don't think that was Will's greatest decision, really. That's extremely ironic, lol.
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