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Post by natetrace on May 27, 2018 15:13:21 GMT
I didn't watch a ton of total biscuit, but some. I do think it's cowardly to unleash attacks after the person has died. Agree or disagree, he's dead. I guess even though there are still followers, I consider it over.
My honest opinion on games is that they are my favorite medium, but now that they are seen as art it has attracted the worst people on both ends. In other words, I think there is too much South Park style fart sniffing in gaming nowadays. From gamergate to sjw, too much enjoyment in their own flatulence. I do think games are art, but also entertainment.
I guess sometimes I yearn for a simpler time. Must be age.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on May 27, 2018 15:27:17 GMT
First, I didn't review far cry 5 I did a feature on it. That allows me to be a bit more creative with the thesis of the article and thematic elements. As a teacher that appeals to me so it is what I seek. On that techraptor website I have a few recent reviews such as my lovely daughter, dragons crown pro and Star wars episode 1 racer if you want to check them out as a comparison. Fair enough. None of these games interest me, so I'll pass. Though, the point was more that "misinformed" is the wrong term to use when dealing with something other than hard facts or science. Second, there is a difference in the end, and after being on the other side I can see why there is so much frustration on the part of actual journalists. I'm frankly sick and tired of the broad brushing sort of all press being "hacks" to use a word for it and the almost blind praise of folks on what is essentially tv. The entire culture at large is systematically blinded by its own rules and flashy lights, it mistakes good and bad work constantly, is filled with rage that needs to be fed and flocks to it. It is looking to confirm their own bias and will use any excuse to do it. It goes further and lambasted game after game with that seething rage, be it on purpose or a shtick or just a profanity-filled tirade. All this connection to a fanbase...most of them throw it away for money or fame or their own ends in the end. Their own gratification of getting their thoughts out. As far as I'm aware, very little of this if any can be applied to TB, so ironically, you are the one using a broad brush here. Personally I can definitely appreciate good journalism when I see it, I definitely find things such as various pieces Jason Schreier did in the past interesting and informative. And yes, I do have a criticism for various click-baiters on YT as well, though to see this sort of disconnect so long after the rise of "enthusiast press" precisely because traditional gaming-journalists didn't provide the goods, is perplexing to me. Towards the end, especially during the gamergate cofvefe, most gaming journalists acted very much like a clique or a mafia, there was no acknowledgment of any criticism, no nuance, there was only shaping the narrative with coordinated attacks on their own crowd purely based on cynical and political motivations. Complaints of "broad brush" in this context when it comes to YT are especially ironic due to how such a huge crowd was all painted as criminal/racist/sexist/etc. (which was factually incorrect, aside from the fringe) and no attention at all was given to the actions of various shady characters on the "correct side" who faked death threats to themselves and used their fraudulent victim-status as currency. (some of them to this day) But that's old news really, though, don't expect people to forgive and forget any time soon. This certainly contributed to how many gamers view traditional gaming journalists, and to the tendency of seeing them as a monolyth for the most part. And yes, I do see the irony here, people do a lot of dumb shit on both sides. And before you say it, journalists doing the same is a problem too. But it's funny how folks are quick to condemn one group over another thanks to the sour reputation of journalists. Those who have abused their platform are no better here, but since they have the name in front of them on their website they are worse, always it seems. I certainly appreciate the admission, and for my part I'd say that when abuse becomes apparent (assuming I agree on the definition of said "abuse"), I try not to have double standards (though this is always difficult). And again, there's certainly a lot of grudge in the background here, as I mentioned above, and since these days it seems that most people only know how to double down, but not how to apologize, that's not going to change. I wrote this man's obituary despite my own disdain for him, because it's the professional thing to do. Left out details on his more controversial scandals because it's not appropriate. I'm pissed that someone who worked at Bioware would be as vile as they did. Yet I'm always going to be the hack here because I'm not on youtube. Who cares about what the hack says in the end, remember? Why even bother then? Its not my job to cater to anyones ego or expectations in what I write. I also don't need to waste my time writing for those deeming me a hack, whheter its deserved or not. If that is why there is a disconnect between the crowd, well, maybe there should be for the simple fact that a few folks in that mess can do the job better without their imput. I would be interested to hear about your disdain, so we could actually talk about it. I can't debate personal taste of course, but to my knowledge aside from occasional missteps TB was a cut above the rest. Hell, even during the Gamergate controversy he was among the people who tried to keep this "movement" as clean as possible, with a focus on valid criticism rather than degenerating into something entirely feral. (as much as you can even claim that he was part of it, he was more on the periphery IIRC, in the sense that he shared some of the criticism in regards to ethics) Of course, for the screeching ideologues none of it matters, he wasn't with them, and therefore he was the enemy. As for "hack", I don't remember calling you one, all I did was point out that in my opinion, traditional gaming journalists are just as tainted as everyone else, and that YT provided a form of goods that they failed to provide. So yes, I do care, even if I think that actual open mindedness and nuance are more valuable than an obituary, and I do consider you better than most in your position in this regard. (for what it's worth) Ironically, I don't really care about a supposedly former bioware asshat and his comments, and I support his right to make them. I just see this as further validation of my opinion on the prevelant culture inside Bioware, and the acceptable political and cultural opinions there. Though, I am somewhat impressed by Casey Hudson's response (despite it being obvious damage-control), at this point I didn't expect even something like this out of Bioware. I just need to do my job and do it to the best of my ability, without putting my own ego into it. That's hard enough when work is edited before release, you know. Or maybe i'm just getting incredibly jaded at this point with what our culture is. I'm increasingly hoping to interact with it less as time goes on simply due to all the spitefulness. Fair enough. I don't blame you, but I'd say that this is true for the other side as well. It becomes tiring to read articles who bash you for your failure to follow the "correct" set of political opinions, on websites and topics that really should have little to do with politics in general. Hell, this is why I'm advocating to keep politics out of video games as much as possible (mainly blatant references, not what you absolutely have to put inside as part of good story-telling), because the political gap these days seems almost unbridgeable, so it's simply better to focus on the parts that unify rather than keep rubbing those that divide. I should be more clear about this, but I was referring to the general disdain. The "hack" line is in reference to slimgrim's remarks and sort of emblematic of the point I was trying to hammer home, not anything you said personally. As far as Bain goes, it's even beyond the gamergate stuff. I supported Gamegate to for a bit too before I realized it was not helping things (his insistence for a long time being "lone actors" on his part I think was a massive mistake) It's hard to really explain, but if you had a platform and in your name people do your bidding, follow your lead and all that, you should be cautious of how you go about business. It's not a question of him being a bad reviewer in this case insomuch as a question of poor judgement on his own. Remember when I talked about the rage and tirades, feeding the anger and one's own ego being part of the problem? That was Bain most of the time. It was all ego in what he did. His own wife even called him out on it a few times, saying he cared about people who hated him more because it bothered him. By Bain's own admission this was a flaw of his but he never tried to justify or rectify it. I can name a ton of instances like this: The Titan Souls fiasco, the Cox convention scandal, getting into a slap fight with Shawn Elliott and other devs and critics, rarely reigning in his fanbase to back down from causes, they instead swarm anyone who dissented. This is also not mentioning his own social media feeds where he either insults folks or feeds the trolls without giving it much thought. The "get cancer" tweets being the most prevalent (and sadly ironic) are just the tip of that iceberg. He would argue most of what he says in terms of content and reply in his reviews is constructive, but the only parts that were in the end were your issues of framerate and interface, graphical hiccups. The book report stuff. Not the "fuck this game" kind of stuff that was littered throughout many things he did. That is a gaming problem in a nutshell, but what infuriates me is the fact that this guy had the platform but wouldn't rise above it for whatever reason. He will always be good for his consumer advocacy, I liked that a lot about him and wish more people in the industry did that. But the problem is he didn't follow through on it well due to his own behavior and presentation. It was what anyone can do...it was mundane vs powerful. This is why I found little value in his work. It's why I find little value in a lot of work that tries to have their cake and eat it by being what is effectively a populist in some ways. Thing is, that's how you get noticed on YouTube. Take folks like Noah Gervais, Sole Porpise, Game Sack or even a more popular one like Ahoy to name a few. There is little ego there, and what ego they have is more or less left to the videos and the occasional comment section or corny jokes in their videos that don't overpower the content. It's less about image or getting involved in the morass of internet culture. They will never be as popular as Bain, and that to me is a shame, as it's just as strong in terms of content without the baggage. To me though, they are better critics, essayists and reviewers than Bain though.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on May 27, 2018 16:05:07 GMT
This is truly just sad. Lastly, I only watch reviews on Youtube, "official" "Professional" reviews are hardly anything but. Too often their content and the tone of said content is influenced by Paid Advertisements or threats to never get any more review copies. Youtube people almost never have these issues, they typically pay out of pocket for their copies, and provide an unfiltered opinion, and more often than not, do not assign some pointless numeric score to a title, because those numbers mean absolutely nothing. Sometimes the organisations aren't even subtle about it. Like in the case of Donkey Konga 2: "A freelancer for GameSpy wrote up a review of Donkey Konga 2 which they did not approve of, but instead of simply doing away with it or directly pasting a press release into the news script, they tarted it up and shoved it out on stage.To hear him tell it, they changed his one point five score to a three, adulterating it further with phrases friendly to the game in question. The review has since been removed, hauled off the Internet - but Google remembers all. Or, at any rate, it did." Or how Gertsmann was fired over a poor score for Kane and Lynch: "So disclose Gerstmann has, confirming with GameSpot's Jon Davison that after a succession of challenges with management and advertisers he was "called into a room" and "terminated" because he "couldn't be trusted" as editorial director (ie, in charge of reviews), kicking off one of the saddest and sorriest episodes in an often sad and sorry relationship between games writers and games publishers. Interestingly, he mentions some other less-than-savoury episodes going on at the time, such as pressure from Sony and threats of pulling ad money over a less-than-perfect review for Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction. This took place before the Kane & Lynch review, and thus (along with a change to the site's review system, which brought the average of scores down) contributed to the conflict between ownership and editorial over review scores, meaning Eidos' game shouldn't be blamed as the sole offender." In general though it's not the overly positive game reviews that does it for me, it's just a combination of many different things. Like how most game reviewers don't play the entire game, which leads to stuff like many reviewers missing that Stellaris has almost no content mid game, or whether systems become stale, samey, or grindy late in the game. It's things like how most reviews read like it's written to a sodding template, written and shoved at the audience as quickly as possible in a bid to be the first one out the door, which results in not delving deeply enough into issues - too superficial and lacking depth. Things like often not having the balls to call out real issues and so they'll tiptoe and gloss over inadequacies in the game. A hundred different things which essentially just boils down to "not being at all useful" have turned me off most professional game reviews, and definitely big site reviews like gamespot and IGN. Some smaller sites are still decent for reviews, though. This can be used as a teachable moment if you will indulge me. I can only use an example of my own work, but I had an instance where a game review I wrote was drastically changed from it's final incarnation, including justifications for score. It was a review of Dragons Crown Pro, which we got early, and my first pass at it was not well liked because of several elements that the editorial staff disagreed with. There was several changes, but the two big ones affected the review in a way that is different from how it was presented on the website. The first was the order of events, the second was content. Sometimes they intertwine as well. Late in the review linked there I discuss the graphical style of Kamitami's game, starting with the "patented Vanillaware style" paragraph. Originally, that was one of the first things mentioned in the review, and the section was much longer, delving into the past history and criticism Dragon's Crown had regarding it's visuals. I still have an early draft copy, but it was to the effect of something like this. Remember this still needs editing, but the way I tend to do things is get a second pair of eyes on my first or second draft to help pick up inconsistencies or flaws quickly. Both of the reviews editors we had checked this out and found the section problematic because it was taking away from the review. Its position and content, in their notes back, argued it was out of place and that the section discussion Vanillaware should be lower in the review due to it not being the meat of the details. My justification for adding it was to delve into the history of the title,s since this was a re-master and most of what can be said about it visually has already been done so five years ago. The final copy, fully edited, is as such. This leads into a second section, which was discussion of gameplay. The original pass they felt was overly negative in my discussion on the games grinding, and that it didn't justify me giving it a higher score of 8 because of the elements I speak about in gameplay. To quote one section of it in the original pass: Because of the placement being later in the review, it was seen by the editors as being lower in importance of content. The view of the editors is very specific, they follow a sort of guidelines that I only in barest of form adhere to, not because the guidelines are in the way, but because it runs the risk of being "one size fit's all" when it comes to written reviews, including concerns of syntax and SEO considerations as well. It's why a lot of sentences have been shortened or we get the more "cut" style of paragraph use in the final product vs the first drafts. Editorials and features sometimes get this, but often they are left to their own devices. I have been critical about many times, including this very thread. The sort of boilerplate book report reviews that I don't want to fall into. The editorial team forces it when need be though, so we do the compromise in a way that does not, hopefully, invalidate my own words while catering to the needs asked of me. The final review is as follows: Keep in mind, I did all the changes myself. The editorial team does have the right to go in and make minor corrections as they see fit. I've seen that several times for news stories and reviews I have done before. For the most part, a lot of the re-writes to the final review are all my own choices in trying to maintain the same point of what was originally written, while catering to what was asked of me. Sometimes it is a minor change, such as shortening sentences and adding a phrase to be more clear or concrete of the motivation of the subject. Sometimes it's a full blown re-write or re-arranging of the structure of your review to make it work better. Again, we had some extra time for Dragon's Crown Pro because we did get it early, it's even more of a crunch when we don't get press copies. I actually have a game I got early now I am going through slowly and will do the same thing, even if it means power gaming it to finish it in three days because we have a short deadline. This is the norm for writing, and standards that a lot of journalists have to go through when it comes to their own work, freelance or salary.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by linksocarina on May 27, 2018 16:12:05 GMT
They will never be as popular as Bain, and that to me is a shame, as it's just as strong in terms of content without the baggage. To me though, they are better critics, essayists and reviewers than Bain though. I suppose your criticism is fair overall, even if I disagree with much of it, especially in regards to the supposed personal responsibility of not saying something because someone might interpret what you said as whistling to attack someone. Because that's an argument that can be used to kill any slightly controversial discussion on ANYTHING. (and since the political correctness brigade is rampant enough as it is, I'd loath to make any concessions in this area) As for his Ego, sure, there might be something to it, I certainly found his meltdown after Trump was elected rather eye-opening (especially as it pertained to his wife and her decision to vote for the libertarian candidate IIRC). But in the end this only has tangential importance for me. There was also a noticable dive in the quality of his content since he was diagnosed, which obviously became worse as time passed, but I can hardly blame him for that. John Bain wasn't my moral compass, he was just a video game critic (or reviewer, or whatever you want to call him, doesn't really matter in the end) that advocated for things I found important overall, and had a style which I found overall entertaining to listen to. I didn't share his obsession with FoV sliders etc., or his particular taste in games, but I did find his "bias guides" valuable in the end. And personally, I think that despite what personal flaws he might have had, he was relatively fair in his reviews, and at least tried to make his biases clear relatively often. And that's all there is to it for me, that's about what I'm looking for in a video game review, I want it to be useful to me, and ideally it would be nice if it was also entertaining on some level. I guess the issue I have is it's hard to reconcile the two when you have so much power. Put in his shoes, i'd personally be much more image conscious on everything I say and do, and direct the influence to better causes vs twitter spats. That is responsibility for actions and behavior that we need more of. I already do that in my day to day as it is. On a larger scale...it's easy to be detached honestly.
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Post by natetrace on May 27, 2018 16:46:45 GMT
I didn't watch a ton of total biscuit, but some. I do think it's cowardly to unleash attacks after the person has died. Agree or disagree, he's dead. I guess even though there are still followers, I consider it over. My honest opinion on games is that they are my favorite medium, but now that they are seen as art it has attracted the worst people on both ends. In other words, I think there is too much South Park style fart sniffing in gaming nowadays. From gamergate to sjw, too much enjoyment in their own flatulence. I do think games are art, but also entertainment. I guess sometimes I yearn for a simpler time. Must be age. I should point out I'm referring to the old smug episode of South Park, and not the show in general. Because that is relevant to this conversation...
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Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 27, 2018 17:25:51 GMT
Keep ripping on John Bain.
Keep exposing how classless your outfit has become. SJWs my ass. SJW out of self-serving convenience.
Fuck Anthem. You again crossed the line and then the cowards retreat into their private channels.
BioWare... change your company name to Self-Entitled Games. No writing talent, no character development and no heart.
I'm not done... I'm just getting started.
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Post by FireAndBlood on May 27, 2018 17:42:41 GMT
This cool story has been brought to you by Bro Inc.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 27, 2018 17:42:53 GMT
Keep ripping on John Bain. Keep exposing how classless your outfit has become. SJWs my ass. SJW out of self-serving convenience. Fuck Anthem. You again crossed the line and then the cowards retreat into their private channels. BioWare... change your company name to Self-Entitled Games. No writing talent, no character development and no heart. I'm not done... I'm just getting started. Moving this to the running thread.
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 27, 2018 17:46:24 GMT
This cool story has been brought to you by Bro Inc. You too, buddy. Bro... you're so edgy and smart. You're part of the problem. Keep going bud...
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Post by FireAndBlood on May 27, 2018 17:58:40 GMT
This cool story has been brought to you by Bro Inc. You too, buddy. Bro... you're so edgy and smart. You're part of the problem. Keep going bud... You’re right I am part of the problem and I should strive to be a better person. I’m so sorry for your loss Mrs. Bains.
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 27, 2018 18:00:01 GMT
Mr. Elias to you. Loser. Disrespectful, classless loser.
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Post by FireAndBlood on May 27, 2018 18:07:29 GMT
Mr. Elias to you. Loser. Disrespectful, classless loser. It’s okay ma’am grief makes us say terrible things, I understand and will not take offense for your classless behavior.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 27, 2018 18:09:52 GMT
It's okay Fire and Blood. You're part of the problem.
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Post by FireAndBlood on May 27, 2018 18:11:36 GMT
It's okay Fire and Blood. You're part of the problem. And by working together we can all find the solution!
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Post by SofaJockey on May 27, 2018 18:33:18 GMT
That's enough, thanks.
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Post by hivemind on May 27, 2018 21:41:32 GMT
i reserve a right to say "i told you so" when next bioware developer reveal himself as a pile of petty garbage he is. This is going to happen, they can't help themselves. because i give a damn. BioWare was for me something more than just a developer, and seeing them continiously falling, breaking one bottom after another just hurts. Thanks for the helpful answer. Yes, I guess we'll see. the proof is in the pudding. I can understand a relationship with a dev can change over time. May I ask what was the last BioWare game you played/enjoyed? Last game that i enjoyed was probobly SWTOR. Not from bottom to top, but i did enjoyed imperial Agent's story a great deal. I bought DAI and tried to play it, but the grind got me. MEA i played only with Origin Access, and i didn't bought the game. I think i still have a few hours left in trial. I played all BioWare games to some extent, but each next game come to be worse than the one before. Every time i try to play their newest game i always find myself returning to the old ones - be it Kotor, Jade Empire or first Dragon Age and Mass Effect.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 27, 2018 22:17:17 GMT
I played all BioWare games to some extent, but each next game come to be worse than the one before. Every time i try to play their newest game i always find myself returning to the old ones - be it Kotor, Jade Empire or first Dragon Age and Mass Effect. I can no longer play KOTOR, though I loved it, it's just too janky. Mass Effect 2 is probably my personal favorite.
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Post by river82 on May 27, 2018 22:30:58 GMT
I can no longer play KOTOR [...] it's just too janky.
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Twitter Guru
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Hrungr on May 28, 2018 2:05:01 GMT
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by linksocarina on May 28, 2018 4:48:53 GMT
At least he apologized. Forced or not.
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Post by slimgrin727 on May 28, 2018 5:28:44 GMT
Someone got the third degree.
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Post by river82 on May 28, 2018 6:18:18 GMT
Good to see . Rule of thumb - publicly ripping into someone while they can defend themselves is just a part of being human, but publicly ripping into someone only once they've passed just makes you an abject coward. People tend to not pay attention to cowards. So when Jungbluth says it's important to speak the truth about someone after they've passed and not allowing toxic behaviour to go silent, it's actually more important to do this when a person's alive. But then again that actually requires balls, much easier to diss someone at the easiest possible moment. Not that this actually applies to TB though.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 28, 2018 9:26:26 GMT
I do feel Casey's hands all over Mike Jungbluth's tweet.
But that Mike has fessed up, make his twitter public (where he continues to be pilloried, he'll have to cope with that for a time) and removing the dumb bunny costume avatar is a good thing and does take courage, even if his bosses and company may have shoved a poker up his ass to do so (who knows).
This may not have blown up at all if Mike's 3/10 critical tweet had not been placed into the spotlight by David Crooks' 11/10 axe sharpening.
David Crooks continues to hide behind a lock and may still work for EA, who have said nothing.
I don't think this story is quite done, the #BoycottBioWare #FuckEA crowd are hardly forgiving, need no excuse and have long memories. Casey and Mike' statements are designed to address 'average folk', not the angries at the margins.
I think Casey has handled this decisively, I'm impressed.
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Post by Pounce de León on May 28, 2018 9:37:31 GMT
Another example why you shouldn't mix your personal views with your profession. But people just can't help adding their mental ballast to the social media.
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Post by river82 on May 28, 2018 9:38:13 GMT
Well on that thought this was actually the second attempt of Mike's at an apology. If you look at his twitter account the first attempt remains, written inside quotation marks. He posted the second apology without quotation marks to clarify that the apology was "his own words". Make of that what you will xD
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