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Post by smilesja on Jun 14, 2018 20:17:09 GMT
Probably the only one who loves DAI combat.
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Post by samhain444 on Jun 14, 2018 21:44:23 GMT
Probably the only one who loves DAI combat. I've played the game 10+ times and have enjoyed the combat, especially the two-handed warrior, Arcane Mage, and Archery Rogue.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Jun 15, 2018 10:59:33 GMT
As a side note, I've watched few youtubers feedback on the hands on demo they played, and the impressions from what I can gather are mostly positive, so there is that. On the other hand I didn't see any prominent Bioware youtubers getting their hands on the game...
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 15, 2018 12:06:40 GMT
As a side note, I've watched few youtubers feedback on the hands on demo they played, and the impressions from what I can gather are mostly positive, so there is that. On the other hand I didn't see any prominent Bioware youtubers getting their hands on the game... Curiously, the YouTubers I've seen are Youtubers with Destiny/Division cred, often approaching a million subs. We've kind of lost some BioWare YouTubers after MEA. Though I see ladyinsanity and abilitydrain have been sniffing around Anthem recently, so I hope they get treated to VIP access of Anthem.
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 15, 2018 13:07:53 GMT
As a side note, I've watched few youtubers feedback on the hands on demo they played, and the impressions from what I can gather are mostly positive, so there is that. On the other hand I didn't see any prominent Bioware youtubers getting their hands on the game... Curiously, the YouTubers I've seen are Youtubers with Destiny/Division cred, often approaching a million subs. We've kind of lost some BioWare YouTubers after MEA. Though I see ladyinsanity and abilitydrain have been sniffing around Anthem recently, so I hope they get treated to VIP access of Anthem. Ladyinsanity seems to be part of the EA Game Changers programs, I’m not sure how much access she actually has.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jun 15, 2018 13:41:32 GMT
One would think they're used to it... or everybody's used to it by now...
"BioWare are a bunch of hacks who can't make games/ want to suck/being forced to suck (by EA)/went full SJW, AND ARE OUT TO GET US!"
"The fans are mouth-foaming overzealous 'toxic' (God I hate that word) asshats who will never be pleased, AND ARE OUT TO GET US!"
Honestly, while the levels of plausibility vary from one side to the other, the truth as always, is probably somewhere in the middle. The devs try to make a game people like and will sell well but may run into issues for a host of practical and likely mundane reasons. Meanwhile most fans (a small subset of the casual gaming audience who will purchase it) will think it's anywhere from average to great, while an even smaller subset of a subset will take to the internet to bitch.
The internet has given everyone a voice. But we've been at this a while. You'd think we'd realize that a voice =/= something worthwhile to say, necessarily, and we need to shut the crazy ones out.
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Post by Sifr on Jun 15, 2018 14:33:19 GMT
I think it's a situation where both sides tend to get stuck in their own echo chambers. We all know that the echo chamber with fandoms tends to have them regurgitate the same criticisms to reinforce their belief that something sucks. But I think that developers are equally at risk of the reverse happening, where creators repeat something is "good" so often that they can lose their perspective or objectivity. Take for instance, the true story about Bioware devs spending an inordinate amount of time and money crafting a realistic dick for Iron Bull, because no-one stepped in sooner to question what the hell were they even thinking? If I had to hazard a guess at the reason, it's that no-one on the team wanted to risk their job or upset anyone by calling the idea stupid (especially if the boss suggested/liked it). Leading to everyone pretending the idea was great, but secretly hoping for someone higher up the chain to step in and say something, so they wouldn't have to. Perhaps even the person who signed off on the idea actually didn't like or want to do it, but felt pressured because everyone else on their team seemed to be going for it. Leading to them praising the idea in public, while desperately hoping someone higher up would step in, if only to let them off the hook as well. I'm not saying that's what actually happened, but almost everyone has been in a workplace situation like that before. No-one wants to be the one to say the Emperor has no clothes, because almost everyone would rather save face in that situation. How many disasters have occurred because no-one wanted to address a glaring issue, preferring to pretend everything is fine? When people repeat that enough, you get developers who'd claim the lack of lifeboats on the Titanic weren't a bug, but a feature!
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Post by samhain444 on Jun 15, 2018 14:40:16 GMT
As a side note, I've watched few youtubers feedback on the hands on demo they played, and the impressions from what I can gather are mostly positive, so there is that. On the other hand I didn't see any prominent Bioware youtubers getting their hands on the game... Curiously, the YouTubers I've seen are Youtubers with Destiny/Division cred, often approaching a million subs. We've kind of lost some BioWare YouTubers after MEA. Though I see ladyinsanity and abilitydrain have been sniffing around Anthem recently, so I hope they get treated to VIP access of Anthem. I saw a "trailer impressions" video by ladyinsanity yesterday that was pretty good but her reservation was "something was missing" in that feeling it was not a "BioWare game" and I think that is going to be the common thread among those people who associate the BioWare name with their more relationship/companion-heavy RPGs. Now, you didn't see this kind of response with "SWTOR", despite it being an MMO, because a whole different studio is Austin was taking care of it and "Mass Effect 3" was coming out 4 months later so there wasn't that feeling of "got to nail this one". "Anthem" has been in development since around 2012/2013 so this isn't trend-chasing, this is BioWare trying something new. In the past, they released a game, created 2 to 3 SP DLCs, and that was the end of the game's life-cycle. Maybe a year to a year and a half tops. By having dedicated servers, they can release a game and change/update the world/characters/relationships on the fly to cater to the interest of their audience. Obviously, being 8+ months aware from release, we don't know the details of the plot or the hours of narrative that is going to be available at launch but my impression from interviews with Casey Hudson is he's using this game to determine if they can create a something that breaks the "SP game + 3 SP DLC" release cycle. Imagine getting a "Dragon Age" game where they can continue to create missions, relationship updates, additional branching dialogue, new characters all without having to wait 3 to 4 years to do it. The next "Dragon Age" is supposed to be the 4th is a 5 game cycle but what if, due to the dedicated server, they can provide you the content for the post-game content plus what would be traditionally a 5th game in episodic form so you get something every 2 to 3 months as opposed to waiting until 2024 for "DA5".
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 15, 2018 15:33:27 GMT
I saw a "trailer impressions" video by ladyinsanity yesterday She said it was missing story, she wanted to see the character and the heart, not just shooty shooty. I think she's right and I hope it's coming.
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 15, 2018 15:38:50 GMT
I think it's a situation where both sides tend to get stuck in their own echo chambers. We all know that the echo chamber with fandoms tends to have them regurgitate the same criticisms to reinforce their belief that something sucks. But I think that developers are equally at risk of the reverse happening, where creators repeat something is "good" so often that they can lose their perspective or objectivity. Take for instance, the true story about Bioware devs spending an inordinate amount of time and money crafting a realistic dick for Iron Bull, because no-one stepped in sooner to question what the hell were they even thinking?If I had to hazard a guess at the reason, it's that no-one on the team wanted to risk their job or upset anyone by calling the idea stupid (especially if the boss suggested/liked it). Leading to everyone pretending the idea was great, but secretly hoping for someone higher up the chain to step in and say something, so they wouldn't have to. Perhaps even the person who signed off on the idea actually didn't like or want to do it, but felt pressured because everyone else on their team seemed to be going for it. Leading to them praising the idea in public, while desperately hoping someone higher up would step in, if only to let them off the hook as well. I'm not saying that's what actually happened, but almost everyone has been in a workplace situation like that before. No-one wants to be the one to say the Emperor has no clothes, because almost everyone would rather save face in that situation. How many disasters have occurred because no-one wanted to address a glaring issue, preferring to pretend everything is fine? When people repeat that enough, you get developers who'd claim the lack of lifeboats on the Titanic weren't a bug, but a feature! Wait, isn't that actually one story of a person "dicking" around (pun fully intended) making someone make it knowing full well it wasn't going to be put in and wasn't serious? That's co-workers messing round with each other, not an "inordinate amount of money and time" specially when it seems to only have been one person doing for a week.
Criticising devs for "echo chamber" for this point seems pretty weak tbh.
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Post by samhain444 on Jun 15, 2018 15:45:06 GMT
I saw a "trailer impressions" video by ladyinsanity yesterday She said it was missing story, she wanted to see the character and the heart, not just shooty shooty. I think she's right and I hope it's coming. Yeah, that's kind of a tough spot for them isn't it...how much story do your divulge up front? I imagine there is a marketing strategy that will hopefully build up interest as we near release. I guess, for myself, I wasn't too shocked we weren't getting too many granular details about story since we 8+ months away and E3 was about generating buzz for the title which is what gameplay trailers seem to have accomplished.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 16:00:29 GMT
It's a bit like movie trailers that spoil the film. Commercially, You kind of need to show it to say 'look at this great story' but I can understand that part of the joy of a game is discovering the story and characters for yourself. (what that means in a world where many people 'watch' others playing games rather than play them themselves is beyond me...) Coming from someone with little disposable cash to buy every game in existence, watching helps me make an informed decision on purchasing the game in question. My time is finite as is, and I would rather spend my time with a game I know I’ll enjoy. The destination needs to be worth taking the journey to begin with. If the destination is a shitshow, no money given for that game, period. After being burned with ME3, I am very cautious about my purchases. I do not trust gaming media to do their job properly outside of being a marketing mouthpiece for the game in question.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 15, 2018 16:17:35 GMT
She said it was missing story, she wanted to see the character and the heart, not just shooty shooty. I think she's right and I hope it's coming. Yeah, that's kind of a tough spot for them isn't it...how much story do your divulge up front? I imagine there is a marketing strategy that will hopefully build up interest as we near release. I guess, for myself, I wasn't too shocked we weren't getting too many granular details about story since we 8+ months away and E3 was about generating buzz for the title which is what gameplay trailers seem to have accomplished. Ho hard could it be to show a conversation set early in the critical path so there's little to no spoilers? Or a side mission?
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Post by Iakus on Jun 15, 2018 16:18:40 GMT
It's a bit like movie trailers that spoil the film. Commercially, You kind of need to show it to say 'look at this great story' but I can understand that part of the joy of a game is discovering the story and characters for yourself. (what that means in a world where many people 'watch' others playing games rather than play them themselves is beyond me...) Coming from someone with little disposable cash to buy every game in existence, watching helps me make an informed decision on purchasing the game in question. My time if finite as is, and I would rather spend my time with a game I know I’ll enjoy. The destination needs to be worth taking the journey to begin with. If the destination is a shitshow, no money given for that game, period. After being burned with ME3, I am very cautious about my purchases. I do not trust gaming media to do their job properly outside of being a marketing mouthpiece for the game in question. Informed decisions are BAD! Hype is all about the impulse buy!
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 15, 2018 16:21:08 GMT
Coming from someone with little disposable cash to buy every game in existence, watching helps me make an informed decision on purchasing the game in question. My time if finite as is, and I would rather spend my time with a game I know I’ll enjoy. The destination needs to be worth taking the journey to begin with. If the destination is a shitshow, no money given for that game, period. After being burned with ME3, I am very cautious about my purchases. I do not trust gaming media to do their job properly outside of being a marketing mouthpiece for the game in question. I respect that perspective. I hope that by the time launch approaches there is more than enough information to make an informed choice, including some access to the demo to people who have not pre-ordered, even if those who have 'VIP Access' that is gained by pre-ordering get a bit more.
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Post by samhain444 on Jun 15, 2018 17:18:09 GMT
Yeah, that's kind of a tough spot for them isn't it...how much story do your divulge up front? I imagine there is a marketing strategy that will hopefully build up interest as we near release. I guess, for myself, I wasn't too shocked we weren't getting too many granular details about story since we 8+ months away and E3 was about generating buzz for the title which is what gameplay trailers seem to have accomplished. Ho hard could it be to show a conversation set early in the critical path so there's little to no spoilers? Or a side mission? Well, that would be relevant if was releasing this Tuesday. However, since it's not, I'm going to guess that they will continue to provide details and videos about the way the story evolves through character interaction in Fort Tarsis and the Strider FOB. Just a guess...
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Post by Iakus on Jun 15, 2018 20:44:37 GMT
Ho hard could it be to show a conversation set early in the critical path so there's little to no spoilers? Or a side mission? Well, that would be relevant if was releasing this Tuesday. However, since it's not, I'm going to guess that they will continue to provide details and videos about the way the story evolves through character interaction in Fort Tarsis and the Strider FOB. Just a guess... Id recommend they do it sooner rather than later. Unless they really WANT to alienate (further) their base fans in favor for the shooter crowds.
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Post by helios969 on Jun 15, 2018 21:17:00 GMT
Coming from someone with little disposable cash to buy every game in existence, watching helps me make an informed decision on purchasing the game in question. My time if finite as is, and I would rather spend my time with a game I know I’ll enjoy. The destination needs to be worth taking the journey to begin with. If the destination is a shitshow, no money given for that game, period. After being burned with ME3, I am very cautious about my purchases. I do not trust gaming media to do their job properly outside of being a marketing mouthpiece for the game in question. I respect that perspective. I hope that by the time launch approaches there is more than enough information to make an informed choice, including some access to the demo to people who have not pre-ordered, even if those who have 'VIP Access' that is gained by pre-ordering get a bit more. But not too much. They pretty much ruined DAI with their carpet bombing approach to marketing...which gave away the big bad, the Flemeth "reveal," most of the companion info. I want to discover this in-game.
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Post by river82 on Jun 15, 2018 22:49:18 GMT
'toxic' (God I hate that word) The word is so overused and misused that it's practically lost all meaning.
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Post by Sifr on Jun 16, 2018 1:15:42 GMT
Wait, isn't that actually one story of a person "dicking" around (pun fully intended) making someone make it knowing full well it wasn't going to be put in and wasn't serious? That's co-workers messing round with each other, not an "inordinate amount of money and time" specially when it seems to only have been one person doing for a week.
The version of that anecdote I heard made it sound like a few people were working on it, before it was nixed. Also if you go into flycam during his sex scene, there's a black bar over Bull's junk, rather than him being smooth like a ken doll, making it seem like it was seriously almost added to the game. Criticising devs for "echo chamber" for this point seems pretty weak tbh. Perhaps it wasn't the best example, but the overall point is still valid that sometimes creators can get stuck in their own echo chambers just as much as the fandoms are.
This was the situation the Star Trek franchise got into during the late 90's and mid-00's. The people in charge had been there since the TNG era, but the old guard refused to accept that television, storytelling and their audiences had moved on since the late 80's.
It was such a bad environment that Ronald D. Moore quit in frustration after only a few episodes of Voyager and the reimagined BSG can easily been seen as his rebuttal to what Trek (especially Voyager) should have been doing for over a decade at that point.
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Post by inquisitor007 on Jun 16, 2018 1:20:58 GMT
I hope the developers aren't even looking at this site. Many people here have zero interest in Anthem (which is fine) but many also seem to believe that Anthem is practically an affront to them because it's not a Bioware rpg with all the usual Bioware trappings. But it's not just this site, it's the Bioware fandom in general.
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Post by snowleopard25 on Jun 16, 2018 3:22:44 GMT
I think a "toxic fan community" might include the folks (like me) who pre-ordered $60 for ME:A and felt that the game didn't deliver...
So with Anthem, they must deliver. From everything we have seen so far, they have a compelling set of trailers and press releases.
Keep it up, Bio!
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 16, 2018 15:30:16 GMT
Well, that would be relevant if was releasing this Tuesday. However, since it's not, I'm going to guess that they will continue to provide details and videos about the way the story evolves through character interaction in Fort Tarsis and the Strider FOB. Just a guess... Id recommend they do it sooner rather than later. Unless they really WANT to alienate (further) their base fans in favor for the shooter crowds. Didn't that backfire on them with Inquisition though? In fact a lot of their older press tours was big on story and narrative...and they kind of get roasted for that too when the game deviates from original plans or gets a rewrite somewhere.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 16, 2018 16:00:52 GMT
Id recommend they do it sooner rather than later. Unless they really WANT to alienate (further) their base fans in favor for the shooter crowds. Didn't that backfire on them with Inquisition though? In fact a lot of their older press tours was big on story and narrative...and they kind of get roasted for that too when the game deviates from original plans or gets a rewrite somewhere. What backfired in Inquisition was, interestingly, showing a siege in Crestwood that never happened. Combat mechanics that never made it in the game. Also, by heavily implying that Dorian and Leliana were optional character in In Hushed Whispers, but that was pure dishonesty.
I'm not talking about combat, though. I'm talking about conversations. Storytelling. If this isn't a Destiny clone, show us HOW it's different. And not just "You get to wear an Iron Man suit"
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Post by Sifr on Jun 16, 2018 20:43:22 GMT
What backfired in Inquisition was, interestingly, showing a siege in Crestwood that never happened. Combat mechanics that never made it in the game. Because everything that appears in Pre-Alpha footage should be expected to appear in the actual game?
The Pax Prime demonstration where the Siege of Crestwood was showcased was repeatedly called a "Demo" by the developers. At no point did anyone promise those things would appear in the final game, only that these were things they wanted to have or were testing out.
The primary purpose of that footage was a proof-of-concept to showcase how Inquisition would look and play in the (then new) Frostbite engine, showcase the return of the tactical camera and demonstrate the scope of the maps by pointing out how Crestwood alone was "bigger than all of DA2 put together".
Yeah, it sucks that some of the mechanics weren't in the final game. The Venatori and Red Templars attempting to retake keeps would have made them far more threatening, having more dynamic story opportunities (like "pulling a Redcliffe") would have been fun to explore and let us roleplay as more morally complex Inquisitors.
Some of the stuff they showcased in early Alpha's were probably best left on the cutting room floor though. Equipment deterioration is a prime example, as it would have quickly become frustrating for many players to constantly have to repair their gear between battles.
I could see that mechanic having made camps/keeps more useful, if you could repair your gear at each (50% at camp, 100% at Keeps), as it would have given you more incentive to set them up across the map and ensure you hold the Keep in that area. But even if I was a developer and could get that mechanic working perfectly, I still couldn't justify keeping it if I had to cut extraneous features from the game.
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